One of the first things that comes to mind when someone is stuck and not able to get things done is low motivation caused by low catecholamines/low dopamine. But what if overthinking, fear, anxiety and worry (caused by low serotonin) is holding you back instead? The following case may help you figure it out if any of this applies to you.
William asked this question on one of the tyrosine blogs, justifiably thinking he may need tyrosine to get unstuck:
Excellent article. I may try tyrosine. I have anxiety and shut down when I am about to start something or my mind overthinks and I shut down with worry. I have problems sleeping. I take a group of things…GABA, glycine, 5-HTP but still wake at 3am.
Anyway I always have GOOD intentions of doing things when I wake in the morning….then it goes downhill. I was not always like this but got worse with STRESS from work and now I FIGHT myself to actually do something I used to LOVE to do. Makes me MAD!
I actually am AFRAID just thinking about taking Tyrosine {Not funny}
I FEAR so much it becomes stupid. I think of doing things and SHUT DOWN with worry.
I want my life back…life is too short to suffer knowing HELP is so close. What do you think? Love your articles…
I think this is a great question many others in my community may relate to so I’ve decided to do this as a blog post with his question and a longer response.
I thanked him for his kind words, saying I can’t offer advice via the blog but can share that we need to be careful with tyrosine when someone has sleep issues or anxiety. I also offered some brief thoughts which I’ll elaborate on here so you can understand my thinking as I work with someone.
Is it low motivation caused by low catecholamines/low dopamine?
The first thing that comes to mind when someone is stuck and not able to get things done is low catecholamines and low dopamine. The classic signs are lack of motivation, fatigue, poor focus and feeling depressed, often using sugary foods or drinks for an energy pick-up (especially in the afternoon).
William may feel that he has low motivation and needs tyrosine because he can’t get things done or he starts something and can’t complete it.
His intentions are good but he has to push himself or as he says “fight myself” to get things done. Because of this he feels tyrosine may be the next amino acid he should trial.
Why I would investigate and address low serotonin
William says he has anxiety and also has trouble sleeping. This could be related to low serotonin and/or low GABA.
However when someone has anxiety and insomnia and I hear the following words/phrases, I immediately think low serotonin should be investigated and addressed:
- “My mind overthinks”
- “I shut down with worry”
- “I actually am AFRAID just thinking about taking Tyrosine”
- “I fear so much”
All of the above can hold you back and look like low motivation when it is actually worry and fear that is holding you back.
Typically, with low serotonin, you could also second-guess things you do, experience negative self-talk, have a lack of confidence when doing things, get stuck because of perfectionism and may even feel like an imposter. You may also be very controlling and want to do it all yourself and not be willing to delegate – this can hold you back too.
All this and anything else on the list of low serotonin symptoms would further suggest we need to address this first.
Finding the ideal serotonin support for his needs
He is currently taking GABA, glycine and 5-HTP but still wakes at 3am. And he is still anxious.
I would work to optimize 5-HTP dosing (increasing every few days to see if more helps) or switch to tryptophan if the increased dose isn’t helping. Some folks do better one one versus the other and 5-HTP can raise cortisol in some instances causing a wired-tired feeling.
I’d do the same with GABA once the ideal dose of 5-HTP or tryptophan is found. This helps improve sleep and reduce anxiety too.
And I’d look into high cortisol in case this is causing his 3am awakenings.
Once he has ideal serotonin support for his needs, the overthinking will stop, the worry will go away and his fears will vanish – and he will be able to complete things he starts.
Being well rested because of a great night’s sleep is going to help a great deal too.
There may be a need for tyrosine now or later
I may be wrong and there may in fact be a need for tyrosine now. These cases illustrate tyrosine helping when it didn’t seem it would:
- Tyrosine for alleviating anxiety and panic attacks and creating a feeling of calm focus
- Tyrosine erases severe performance anxiety in a female musician: no more shaking, sweating, panic attacks and passing out
There may also be a need for tyrosine later and a trial will provide the answers.
Right now William is “AFRAID just thinking about taking Tyrosine” but once his serotonin levels are ideal he should no longer have this fear.
Resources if you are new to using the amino acids as supplements
If you are new to using the amino acids tryptophan/5-HTP, GABA or tyrosine as supplements, here is the Amino Acids Mood Questionnaire from The Antianxiety Food Solution and a brief overview here, Anxiety and targeted individual amino acid supplements: a summary.
If you suspect low levels of any of the neurotransmitters and do not yet have my book, The Antianxiety Food Solution – How the Foods You Eat Can Help You Calm Your Anxious Mind, Improve Your Mood, and End Cravings, I highly recommend getting it and reading it before jumping in and using amino acids so you are knowledgeable.
The book doesn’t include product names (per the publisher’s request) so this blog, The Antianxiety Food Solution Amino Acid and Pyroluria Supplements, lists the amino acid products that I use with my individual clients and those in my group programs.
As with all individual amino acids we use them for quick relief of symptoms. And we also always focus on the foundations like diet, the gut, adrenals and stress levels.
We appreciate William for asking this question so we all get to learn. Hopefully he’ll jump on and add to the discussion and share his results later.
Can you relate to his lack of motivation showing up as fear, worry and overthinking instead and holding you back?
What about these other low serotonin symptoms keeping you stuck: second-guessing, negative self-talk, lack of confidence, perfectionism, imposter syndrome and controlling?
Has using tryptophan or 5-HTP allowed you to get past some of this so you can get things done?
Did you also have to address low dopamine and actual low motivation, poor focus and fatigue with tyrosine?
Feel free to post any questions here too.
How do I get of overthinking, worrying and anxiety? These have been holding me back for one – two years now. Please help…
A
I think your question is “how do I get rid of overthinking, worrying and anxiety?” As described in this case we consider low serotonin and address it via amino acid supplementation (and also a dietary approach – for example gluten can contribute to low serotonin).
The best way to determine if someone may have low serotonin is to look at the low serotonin symptoms, rate them on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being worst, do a trial of tryptophan or 5-HTP and rate the symptoms again right afterwards (in the next 2 to 30 minutes). Here are the symptoms https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-mood-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/
I always start with the questionnaire/symptoms and a trial of tryptophan or 5-HTP and we go from there in terms of ongoing supplementation.
If you are new to the amino acids (and other anxiety nutrition solutions like gluten/sugar/caffeine removal, blood sugar control, gut health, pyroluria etc) my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” is a great place to start. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
William might find Serotonin Brain Food by Natural Stacks helpful for those low-serotonin symptoms. It’s tryptophan-based but also includes B3, rhodiola rosea, zinc and magnesium. One could source the ingredients separately but it’s a convenient supplement.
Daniel
Thanks! I’m not familiar with this product and actually recommend Lidtke tryptophan 500mg as doses can be adjusted up and down easily and the tryptophan quality is excellent. You can find this and all the products I recommend here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-pyroluria-supplements/
I’m curious if you’ve used either and found benefits?
Hi Trudy, thanks for this post! It caught my eye in my inbox.
Reflecting on what you have written, fear and anxiety is very likely the root of a lot of my troubles and symptoms. I feel like when doing the amino acid questionnaires I pretty much fit into each category but so far haven’t had that much luck with trialing amino acids. The only one that worked for me was L-theanine which made me feel calmer within 30 mins of taking which was incredible! After some time I feel like it wasn’t as effective anymore so stopped taking.
I have tried gaba which only had a slight effect, glutamine, tyrosine, typtophan, and recently 5-htp but I haven’t noticed many changes when taking them.
Not sure if there is something deeper that is impacting things but it is a little disheartening at times.
B
I like to capitalize on what has worked and would look into theanine again – it supports serotonin, GABA and dopamine. Since GABA had a slight effect I’d explore that again too.
When the amino acids don’t work as expected we look at the quality of the actual products, dosing (were they increased until an optimal dose was found), were they used between meals/away from protein and vitamin C, were they used sublingually and thyroid health (they are less effective with an underactive thyroid). We also always consider current or past use of SSRIs, benzos and other medications, heavy metals, Lyme/infections, mold toxicity etc.
Since you’ve used all these I assume you have read my book and looked into other anxiety nutrition solutions like gluten/sugar/caffeine removal, blood sugar control, gut health, pyroluria etc. If not my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” will provide further insights. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
Hi Trudy, thanks for this really interesting blog. I feel for William.
FWIW I suspect your first thought was on the money ie support dopamine pathways; not necessarily serotinin. Anxiety reduces when dopamine levels are addressed; insomnia ceases; and adresses the psychological cycle of low motivation, leading to not achieving anything, leading to self doubt, frustration, loss of trust in self, fear of what’s “wrong”, then shutting down which is really common in low dopamine people.
5-HTP can disrupt the dopamine / serotonin balance and while I used to be a fan of it, I am no longer. And some people experience GIT disturbance on 5-HTP as it can be an irritant which can in turn affect inflammation and then dopamine levels.
I wonder whether his inflammatory markers have been assessed too as chronic inflammation even at low levels, lowers dopamine. And then I wonder if he has a dairy / gluten intolerance and mast cell activation, driving inflammation and lowering dopamine?
Interestingly I recently learned about endogenous serotonin toxicity in the gut and associated with IBD conditions, and again the benefits of raising dopamine which has been shown to improve IBD conditions. So it all leads back to my first point – I sense your first point about supplementing with tyrosine may be really helpful.
What do you think?
But so interesting and I love your approach to treating conditions via food and the amino acid building blocks. Fascinating. And best wishes to William too.
Sam
Thanks for all this but my point is that it’s very possibly not low dopamine but low serotonin instead. Even though “low motivation” makes William and think it could be low dopamine.
I agree with this: “the psychological cycle of low motivation, leading to not achieving anything, leading to self doubt, frustration, loss of trust in self, fear of what’s “wrong”, then shutting down which is really common in low dopamine people” but respectfully disagree that anxiety reduces and insomnia ceases when low dopamine is addressed. I have seen both get worse with tyrosine.
I agree that 5-HTP can sometimes cause gut issues in some folks. This typically lasts a week and if it continues we switch to tryptophan.
I would always consider inflammation and gluten/dairy issues and MCAS – which can lower dopamine AND also lower serotonin.
Regarding IBD (inflammatory bowel diseases ie Crohn’s disease and ulcerative colitis for other blog readers), while I agree there is a role for impairment of the dopaminergic system – Role of Dopamine and D2 Dopamine Receptor in the Pathogenesis of Inflammatory Bowel Disease https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25972152/ there is also a place for serotonin support. In this study, l-Tryptophan exhibits therapeutic function in a porcine model of dextran sodium sulfate (DSS)-induced colitis they conclude that “L-tryptophan supplementation can reduce inflammation and enhance the rate of recovery in DSS-induced colitis and may be an effective immunomodulating agent for the treatment of IBD.” https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19428234/
Please do share what you have recently learned about “endogenous serotonin toxicity in the gut and associated with IBD conditions, and the benefits of raising dopamine.”
I’d also love to learn what kind of practitioner you are and who you work with. It’s disappointing to hear you are no longer a fan of serotonin support with 5-HTP and/or tryptophan as it can be so powerful. I acknowledge that there are other ways to support serotonin and I’d love to hear what you use instead?
Where can I see a doctor who can help me? Any suggestions in California?
Elizabeth
Best to find a functional medicine or naturopathic doctor but jeep in mind they may not know about using the amino acids like this.
If you are new to the amino acids (and other anxiety nutrition solutions like gluten/sugar/caffeine removal, blood sugar control, gut health, pyroluria etc) my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” is a great place to start. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
It’s a comprehensive approach – amino acids AND diet. What is your diet like right now – gluten-free, sugar-free, caffeine-free, eating protein at breakfast for blood sugar control, real whole foods, grass-fed red meat, wild fish, fermented foods etc?
I also encourage you to join my newsletter as I share new information all the time and speak on many summits. Both are great learning opportunities.
I have all of those symptoms. No.motivation, fear of doing anything, overthinking (diagnosed w OCD), have to be in control of everything. Lots of negative self talk, no joy in life. Can’t delegate chores have to do them all & they’re just not getting done. Huge procrastinator.Was on SSRIs for 30 yrs til I weaned myself off 2.5 yrs ago & developed severe anxiety. Hardly have a life now. I’m frozen in fear
We are twins. I feel you.
Ditto, I’m 60yrs old and have no life due to all these symptoms. I’ve been on antidepressants and SSRI, for 30+ Years. I’m an artist and have so many ideas but I can’t put paint to paper. I feel like giving up so often, and have a hard time getting out. Oh And I cry A-lot!!!! My memory is really fading fast. I fear I’ll end up in some shady nursing home in a corner by myself. How can I get my life back.
Tori
It’s never too late to see results! For folks who are on SSRIs there are precautions using tryptophan or 5-HTP (risk of serotonin syndrome) so best is to start with other amino acids and dietary changes.
Anxiety and overwhelm can also be caused by low GABA too. The best way to determine if someone may have low GABA is to look at the low GABA symptoms, rate them on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being worst, do a trial of GABA and rate the symptoms again right afterwards (in the next 2 to 30 minutes). Here are the symptoms https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-mood-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/
Since you mention crying a lot do read about DPA/d-phenylalanine – DPA to end comfort-eating, end weepiness and boost endorphins https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/dpa-comfort-eatin-weepiness-endorphins/
You also say you have a hard time getting out – do read about pyroluria too https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/pyroluria-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/
If you are new to the amino acids (and other anxiety nutrition solutions like gluten/sugar/caffeine removal, blood sugar control, gut health, pyroluria etc) my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” is a great place to start. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
It’s a comprehensive approach – amino acids AND diet. What is your diet like right now – gluten-free, sugar-free, caffeine-free, eating protein at breakfast for blood sugar control, real whole foods, grass-fed red meat, wild fish, fermented foods etc?
Vicki
I’m sorry to hear. Hopefully this blog has given you some hope that there is a solution. If you’re too fearful to consider tryptophan or 5-HTP then start with simple changes to your diet. My book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” is a great place to start. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
Start with gluten/sugar/caffeine removal and eating for blood sugar control.
It’s a comprehensive approach – amino acids AND diet. What is your diet like right now – gluten-free, sugar-free, caffeine-free, eating protein at breakfast for blood sugar control, real whole foods, grass-fed red meat, wild fish, fermented foods etc?
I had tried 5 HTP just as I got off the SSRI but didn’t seem to react well. Do you think tryptophan may help. I do take various supplements and have just started holy basil. Was going to also start Inositol & bacopa. Can all these different things be taken at the same time? Thank you. I guess i should read your book!
Vicki
I can’t offer you specific advice via the blog but can share that folks do better on tryptophan and some do better on 5-HTP. Also reactions to 5-HTP 2.5 years prior right after tapering have not stopped me recommending a trial of 5-HTP to a client.
You also mentioned no joy. Read about DPA to end comfort-eating, end weepiness and boost endorphins https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/dpa-comfort-eatin-weepiness-endorphins/
And yes do read my book and makes the changes. It’s a comprehensive approach – amino acids AND diet.
I am William in the article and Vicki-Harris who commented. I stay up late because I hate to go to bed and start another day like the last. And if I try to plan on things to get done the next day and even feel good about it, I wake up miserable and nothing happens. I am the best at night before bed. I had used GABA in the past for some morning anxiety but things are different now. Just picked up some 5-htp to try. I have had good luck with Tryptophan in past for evening anxiety. Might try that after 5-htp. Certainly don’t need more anxiety so concerned about it but have to try something.
Candy
Glad to hear this has been helpful for you. With clients we always capitalize on what has worked in the past so keep this in mind. With staying up late we also look at high cortisol and address this.
Hi Trudy,
Love your emails and photos.
Is there a reliable test to find out what is low , high, missing in our body ? Conventional tests always show everything is normal !
Thanks
Faye
Thanks! The best way to determine if someone may have low GABA/serotonin is to look at the low GABA/serotonin symptoms, rate them on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being worst, do a trial of the respective amino acid and rate the symptoms again right afterwards (in the next 2 to 30 minutes). Here are the symptoms https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-mood-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/
If you are new to the amino acids (and other anxiety nutrition solutions like gluten/sugar/caffeine removal, blood sugar control, gut health, pyroluria etc) my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” is a great place to start. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
Dear Trudy.
Thank you for this great article.
I myself have Pyroluria (high values), fear of speaking in front of people, fear of illness, always think it will be the worst outcome when ill, insomnia, high blood preasure (gotten much better with losing weight to normal, a chronically gastritis, i’m very over-emotional and also sensitive (typically kpu?).
I have lost about 20 kg (normal weight now), have tried Tryptophan (up to 6g), sometimes worked for sleep a little bit, but not for the rest. 5-htp even less. I have measured aminoacids in the blood. Got back result that GABA is extremeely low. Tried to take different GABA products, but have some severe side effects on GABA. Like it would be flowing water down my head to the nose (on the inside of the head) and also problems with the stomach. Theanine is strange also – it doesn’t seem to change anything, but to get even less sleep. Also i take B6 and Zink for kpu, but still didn’t change anything. I think, that i maybe would need the tyrosine also, but i’m to worried to try, because of my high blood preasure (most of the times only mild high, but it gets to fast very high, when having emotional or physically stress).
I have also tried so many thing related to diet, from vegan to keto, and low carb. Low carb seems ro work best, with whole foods, but still gastritis and anxiety stays. I have read yput bool, and got so many great tips for diet.
Is there any different possibility instead of GABA and Tyrosine to try?
Thank ypu so much.
BR
Mike
Hi, Mike. I had good success fixing my almost lifelong OCD and anxiety (started with PANDAS as a kid) and many other issues with GAPS Diet. HTH! Be well.
Mike
When the amino acids and other nutrients don’t work as expected we look at the quality of the actual products, dosing (were they increased until an optimal dose was found), were they used between meals/away from protein and vitamin C, were they used sublingually, concurrent use with collagen, and thyroid health (they are less effective with an underactive thyroid). We also always consider current or past use of SSRIs, benzos, fluoroquinolone antibiotics and other medications. Also Lyme, heavy metals, TBI/head trauma, mold toxicity, environmental toxins, implants, dental health/cavitations and past/current trauma must all be considered.
In complex cases working with a knowledgeable practitioner is invaluable.
Thank you William i identified with everything you said plus i also feel pissed off – pissed off that im fatigue but ‘zinging with energy’ and frozen in fear all at the same time.
Trudy: ive tried to get Liekt tryptophan sent to australia but i cant.
Please can australian follower please reply to this post and tell me what brand of Tryptophan you use please?
Im getting desperate-ive tried Gaba calm (get great sleep with it) but doesnt help me during the day, ive tryed inositol but doesnt do much, im currently trying taurine and L-theanine and havent noticed a benefit.
Im currently frozen in low motivation, anxiety and just feelinv really pissed off….meant to have left the house 20minutes ago but cant seem to get going.
I really am starting to wonder if i have ADHD. Before i had anxiety i used to be a really active person.
Debbie
Glad you identify with William’s story. Feeling pissed off could fit into the irritability/angry feeling which is also low serotonin.
In Australia the Healthwave powdered tryptophan works well. Find it in health stores or sports nutrition stores.
If you are new to the amino acids (and other anxiety nutrition solutions like gluten/sugar/caffeine removal, blood sugar control, gut health, pyroluria etc) my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” is a great place to start. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
It’s a comprehensive approach – amino acids AND diet.
Hi Trudy,
Thank you for all of your amazing content!! It’s so enlightening.
This question may be way out of left field, but: I do have low serotonin and I would love to address it more. 5-htp gives me headaches and doesn’t seem to really help. Tryptophan can be super helpful for me when it comes to sleep, and the first time I took a recommended high dose of about 1200 mg (I had been taking much lower doses occasionally) several years ago I felt absolutely wonderful. But: if I take too much, I get an awful hangover, as if I had drunk a huge amount of alcohol.
That first time I took that dose of about 1200 mg, I felt so amazing I did it a few nights in a row at bedtime, but then it was cumulatively too much and I felt really sick, though I didn’t realize what was causing it at first. Now, I can only take a 500 mg capsule at bed and it will help me sleep, but I have to take nights off in between or I will feel absolutely wrecked after.
Are you familiar with this and what causes it? I recently heard Dr. Mark Hyman say on one of his podcasts that this is a microbiome issue. If we have the right gut bugs, he said, it gets turned into serotonin, but if we don’t, it can get turned into an inflammatory neurotoxin!?!? I’m afraid this might be what’s happening to me, and that taking it even in smaller amounts might be having some ill effects on me in the long term, even if they’re not acutely noticeable. I had thought my feeling sick was maybe just a matter of getting my serotonin-dopamine systems out of balance, but now I am nervous about taking tryptophan if it’s causing neuroinflammation for me. I wonder if it might also be a quality issue between brands.
I realize this is a little off topic so if you can’t answer I understand. I would love to be able to take more tryptophan more regularly!
Thank you so much for your invaluable work and insights!
Ava
I can’t offer specific advice via the blog but I’d be wondering if 500mg is too much or looking at what could be leading to shifting needs. Some factors I consider with my clients: higher stress levels (especially if they have pyroluria), parasites, hormone shifts, dietary factors like accidental gluten exposure and blood sugar swings or adding collagen and then stopping it, Hashimoto’s and even low lithium levels. Also, seasonal shifts like in winter or summer, and also around allergy season. Seasonal exposure to toxins like in farming communities or even say every 3 months when you may apply flea treatment to your pets.
I have clients keep a food mood log to try and figure it out.
Thank you, Trudy!
I’m about 99% sure I have pyroluria, my hormones are the messiest I’ve ever heard of since I was about 14, and I know I have MTHFR. And yes, lots of stress. So I’ve got a lot to work on. I’ve eaten basically paleo-keto for about 18 years so my blood sugar is pretty stable and I have minimal exposure to gluten. I have tried keeping a diary of all of my lifestyle practices and foods to track progress and it got overwhelming – but I should try to keep it up. I do so many things for my health, it’s a lot to manage. I started taking lithium orotate recently and I think it helps me sleep.
I have just been in a psychiatric hospital for the 4th time. I go in on Adivan or Klonopin and come out on the same drugs. I have serious side effects with SSRI’s but am suffering terribly. I sleep for 4 hours a night. I have extreme anxiety, muscle tension, panic attacks and FEAR, (being the worst) I have been like this since my teens and am now 67 yrs. old. I cry constantly! I have no life! I asked my doctors over and over again if there’s anything else I can do, but they say no. I can’t take gaba because I’m on benzos . I tried weening off myself and I didn’t get very far. It was horrific. I have been on benzodiazepines for 16 years now, and they don’t work at all anymore. They actually make me feel worse. Please, if you have any suggestions, I will try anything. I can’t bear the thoughts of having this for the rest of my life. I have suffered with this my whole life, and it gets worse the older I get. I would love to know what peace and calm feels like, even for just a short time.
Thank you for listening!
Have you been assessed for sulfur sensitivity? Molybdenum can help offset some sulfur problems for those with them who present as Borderline but actually have a physiological issue driving the feelings and behaviors. Have you been assessed for C-PTSD or Borderline PD? As with most things like this, there are nutritional protocols and behavioral therapies that help to heal.
Liver health is of the utmost importance in all the above
Gene panels can determine predispositions to heritable illnesses and weaknesses that often can be addressed by nutrition and supplementation. Tests to determine subclinical infections can perhaps help point you in a positive direction. In my case, strep had taken residence in my gut when I was a kid, after many repeat strep infections, and both candidiasis and metals made for the perfect environment to incubate it. Diet, fasting, and supplementation rousted it.
GAPS Diet really did save me from my obsessive behaviors and thoughts that were making me, quite frankly, crazy. That was, of course, years before I discovered Trudy. I am trying to tidy up the Hashimoto’s and other AI disorders that resulted from years of damage done to my body by living out of balance, so I maintain a clean diet and am always researching ways to improve my health. Heal your gut and heal your mind, as they say.
I wish you so much peace and comfort. People who don’t suffer for years and years are blissfully unaware of the pain and anguish that sustained suffering causes. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.
Michele
Sorry to hear about your struggles which sadly are very common.
I have my clients get nutritionally stable BEFORE starting any medication taper (with their doctor’s approval of course) and this prevents many of the adverse effects. This means eating real food, no gluten, no caffeine, no sugar, quality animal protein, eating for blood sugar control and addressing gut health, the adrenals etc (everything I cover in my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” – more here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/). And then we use the amino acids during the taper (all with the doctor’s approval and monitoring).
I have found that GABA and/or theanine and tryptophan and/or 5-HTP help a great deal. We may also include melatonin, niacinamide, St John’s Wort, adrenal supportive nutrients and other protocols based on each person’s unique needs. These are all fine to use with benzos.
There are a subset of individuals (about 30%) who do have a much more difficult time tapering benzos than others, even with nutritional support. More on this here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/world-benzodiazepine-awareness-day-say-no-benzodiazepines-anxiety/ It’s also very common for benzos to work less well as the years go by and actually start to cause more severe anxiety and insomnia (and many other distressing symptoms). Benzo Information Coalition is an excellent resource to learn more https://www.benzoinfo.com/
For crying, DPA is wonderful. More here – DPA to end comfort-eating, end weepiness and boost endorphins https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/dpa-comfort-eatin-weepiness-endorphins/
I am in my 70’s and just beginning to learn that my “personality” suffering for years, actually all my life, might have to do with genetic snps that possibly contribute to problems with serotonin, norepinephrine and dopamine. Most, if not all, of the symptoms noted for low serotonin and dopamine I can relate to such as depression, lack of confidence, lack of motivation, second guessing, impostor syndrome, over thinking, social anxiety, falling into the craving of carbs and sweet in the evening – and more. I am anxious about being older and never knowing what “normal” is. I have snps that prevent the breakdown of serotonin and dopamine and norepinephrine. In testing dopamine showed high and serotonin showed low along with low norepinephrine. Dopamine shows high possibly because I can’t break it down, yet I have symptoms of low dopamine, does that mean that I should not try any supplement that would raise it? Not sure about serotonin (which showed low on testing) since I have the MAO-A snp that doesn’t break it down. If serotonin doesn’t break down properly but shows low on the test I don’t know if taking 5htp or Tryptophan would help. (Side note: I have gut issues also.) Any help here for these questions? Thanks.
Toni
Unfortunately we are often told this is our personality or told we have to live with it and manage it. I disagree with both and am here to tell you it’s never too late.
The best way to determine if someone may have low serotonin is to look at the low serotonin symptoms, rate them on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being worst, do a trial of tryptophan or 5-HTP and rate the symptoms again right afterwards (in the next 2 to 30 minutes). Here are the symptoms https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-mood-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/
I always start with the questionnaire/symptoms and a trial of tryptophan or 5-HTP if there are low serotonin symptoms i.e. worry-type anxiety – regardless of SNPs.
The same applies to the catecholamines and dopamine – and doing a trial of tyrosine.
Re testing I assume it was urinary neurotransmitter testing? I don’t find this helpful and simply use the questionnaires and do a trial.
I’m curious … were you told not to take tryptophan, 5-HTP and tyrosine because of this genetic and neurotransmitter testing?
If you are new to the amino acids (and other anxiety nutrition solutions like gluten/sugar/caffeine removal, blood sugar control, gut health, pyroluria etc) my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” is a great place to start. As you can see addressing gut issues are important too. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
Recently had a setback with anxiety .. been on anti depressants 10years – although they saved my life.
I’m looking for anybody who’s had extreme anxiety and depression and hopefully get some facts that it is possible to get off medication and stay 100% well … is there any resources that it can be done? I’m an avid gym lover and love my healthy foods etc , I read the mood cure by Julia Ross and it is interesting . Trudy have you seen first hand that this works swopping amino acids instead of medication? Also I would suspect you would need high doses? I did taper once and went on 3x50mg of 5htp a day and lithium orotate – started well for a week then quickly went to desperation .
Also my stomach is wrecked at the moment (it’s definitely anxiety) can anybody recommend a pro biotic that works I’m in the uk.
Many thanks – great blog Trudy and best of luck to anybody suffering x
Nick
Yes it is very possible. When someone is not a client I have them read this blog and work with and discuss with the prescribing doctor as there is the risk of serotonin syndrome with SSRIs and tryptophan https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/taper-from-antidepressant-tryptophan-amino-acids/
I have my clients get nutritionally stable BEFORE starting any medication taper (with their doctor’s approval of course) and this prevents many of the adverse effects. This means eating real food, no gluten, no caffeine, no sugar, quality animal protein, eating for blood sugar control and addressing gut health, the adrenals etc (everything I cover in my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” – more here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/). And then we use the amino acids during the taper (all with the doctor’s approval and monitoring). You have a head start being a gym lover and eating healthy foods.
You don’t necessarily need high doses but they can shift during the taper which does need to be done really really slowly.
Thanks for reply Trudy , I would love to get fixed permanently- I’ve never worked with holistic practitioner before . What would be a good starting point?
Ps. I think I might need some sort of medication but I’m not an expert I’ve just tried lots of stuff. I’m currently suffering depression and obsessive thinking and anxiety . It’s truly heartbreaking when you’ve been clear of this and then it hits you again. I’m currently on escitalopram with no room to increase the dose and I’m feeling like my brain is slowly shutting down.
I’m also re reading the mood cure and following –
What can saliva or blood tests show? I would love to know everything is in order in my body. But priority now is to get stable again . I’m adding just 50mg of 5htp at night to hopefully help.
Any insight at to what can be done would be amazing Trudy x much love
Nick, take a look at Dr. Kelly Brogan’s work. She has helped many people taper off of psychiatric medications. https://www.kellybroganmd.com/
How do you get rid of fear and anxiety, insomnia when it is dealing with an illness? I am seeing my doctor July 15, and know my anxiety and fear is from my chronic UTI’s and each time I take an antibiotic they do not always clear it, I am terrified I am becoming antibiotic resistant. Is there a way to be able to become calm with medication, supplementation and help? I just want to calm down, as I truly believe all this fear and constant thinking and worrying is not helping my situation. Any thoughts or help would sure be a big help Trudy. I have listened to you and know your story, so thought maybe you could lead me in the right direction. Thanks so much, Laura
Laura
With fear, anxiety and insomnia I always consider low serotonin/GABA too regardless of the circumstances/diagnosis. The best way to determine if someone may have low GABA/serotonin is to look at the low GABA/serotonin symptoms, rate them on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being worst, do a trial of the respective amino acid and rate the symptoms again right afterwards (in the next 2 to 30 minutes). Here are the symptoms https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-mood-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/
You are correct, when a person is calm they can be more rational and are more resilient when it comes to life stresses and infections. Stress and anxiety impacts the immune system too.
With chronic UTIs there may also be a direct role for GABA – GABA for bladder pain/interstitial cystitis and urgency, IBS pain and anxiety? https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/gaba-for-bladder-pain-interstitial-cystitis-and-urgency-ibs-pain-and-anxiety/
Looking into oxalates may be worth considering – Oxalate crystal disease, dietary oxalates and pain: the research & questions https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/oxalate-crystal-disease-dietary-oxalates-and-pain-the-research-questions/
My colleague Jessica Drummond is an expert on all things pelvic health and talks about Urinary Tract Infections & Interstitial Cystitis here http://www.lyndagriparic.com/dr-jessica-drummond-urinary-tract-infections-interstitial-cystitis/
Hey Trudy, thanks for this helpful article.
I wanted to get your opinion on my situation.
I’m currently 31. In 2016 I had a baby & felt great but was under a lot of stress because we moved across the country 2 months later. The year presented many changes & challenges with work, family and an unexpected (but embraced) adoption of a 20 month old while my first born was only 8 months old. Also had horrendous strep 6 times in a year and was on 6 rounds of antibiotics (would never do that again.) When my 1st born was 1 and a half, I crashed. Started having panic attacks, diarrhea multiple times daily, extreme depression, major unintended weight loss, no appetite, leg cramps, waking up with heart palpitations; it was very challenging. After going to Dr, the verdict was: high cortisol, low progesterone, low estrogen, low DHEA. Basically most of my hormones bottomed out. Was also diagnosed with dysbiosis and later on, candida. (I was offered antidepressants by my OBGYN but the thought of taking them terrified me because I didn’t want to get worse. )
Fast forward to now, I’ve put in lots of work and have resolved a lot of what I listed. However there are some lingering issues. After just taking a Dutch test, my cortisol was still very high. (Particularly my waking cortisol, 24 hour free cortisol and a-THF.) My DHEA was also high.
My melatonin, dopamine & norepinephrine/epinephrine were fine. (I sleep pretty well.)
I’ve made several diet changes along the way and eat mainly clean & whole food. I’ve tried eliminating gluten from time to time but didn’t notice a big difference. (Perhaps I should try again.) I’ve eliminated most dairy. I’ve cut back caffeine to 1 cup of coffee in the morning.
Giving you the back story will perhaps give insight to my current challenges.
Currently I take zinc with no copper, b6, sublingual b12, fish oil, an ashwaganda/cordyceps adaptogen blend, vit C, probiotic, D3 & magnesium citrate daily. I’ve tried GABA off & on but not consistently.
The challenges that have remained since my crash in 2017 are: intrusive (and sometimes obsessive) thoughts, imposter syndrome, negative thinking, ruminating , hesitation, procrastination, not a lot of drive, mood swings, & sometimes it feels like ptsd…I’ve felt stuck and held back. I feel like my capacity to handle the news, difficult information, sad news etc has diminished. I did not feel this way before I crashed.
After reading this, I’m wondering if my serotonin and/or gaba levels are low?
I also work a job that I’m unfulfilled & bored in. Been with this company for 5 years and am not happy there. Wondering how much of an impact that is making also.
I read you mentioned 5HTP raises cortisol so I’m assuming I should avoid that. Was wondering if I should try the tryptophan or GABA?
Just want to feel my joyous, spunky self again.
Thanks for taking the time to read this and for any insight you may have. Blessings!
V
I can’t offer specific advice on the blog but would suggest you check your symptoms off against the amino acid questionnaire. You’ll see them show up in all the sections and addressing each area with the respective amino acids is where I’d start one at a time and starting with the one that is most problematic. One example is lack of joy/spunk and low endorphins.
I would assume the practitioner you’re working with is helping you look for the root cause of the high cortisol (gluten and caffeine are common issues I see) and using nutrients to help lower it.
Very interesting article. Thanks for sharing. I myself struggle with repetitive thoughts and obsessive thoughts about my relationship during my time. I have read many of your articles and based on the thought that I would benefit from L Tryotophan (I used 5 htp and that helped me a lot with feeling amazing and looking on the bright side of life but if I didn’t take it my worryness came back extremely) The tryptophan seems to help. I feel very calm, but even so calm that it makes me very apathetic and my emotions have completely disappeared. Based on this article, I am not in doubt whether I do not need tyrosine after all. Would it be possible?
Myrthe
Too much tryptophan or 5-HTP can make you feel apathetic. This would be true if the issue is not low serotonin and tryptophan or 5-HTP is used – however since both helped I suspect it’s part of the picture. A trial of tyrosine will provide answers and often a combo of tyrosine and tryptophan or 5-HTP is the answer or even tyrosine and tryptophan at certain times and 5-HTP at other times (since both offer benefits).
Hi Trudy, I have very similar symptoms that seem to be getting worse as I get older, almost 48, severe anxiety and ADD. I overthink and worry so much, I don’t actually get anything done and it’s really becoming a problem. I have even developed severe flight anxiety. I see this problem in other family members (father, sister, brother, all to some extent). I have read Anti Anxiety food solution and your blog for a while, purchased the various amino acids and tried them. Here is the very strange problem, they all make my hair fall out like crazy. Of course at first, I thought it was just coincidence or caused by something else (I have Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis) but after years of trying and testing, I’m certain it’s the amino acids, it happens every time and with all of them. I would love your insight on this as I don’t want to turn to prescription anti anxiety/depression medications.
Ali
You say all of them – can you please share which ones? Also, did they help with anxiety, ADD, worry and overthinking? And which brands did you use?
This is a first so I don’t know the answer right now but I’m curious to learn more and try and understand why this would happen.
Hello
I do not know anymore whether i have problem with serotonin or dopamine
But after orgasim i feel really bad and anxious with ocd symptoms and angry and irritabile
Also i suffer from premature ejaculation less than 15 seconds when masturbation or during wet dream
But i am more inclined to think that the problem with is with serotonin.
Can you comment on this?
And any good quality serotonin supplement you suggest?
And do supplements really work to increase serotonin level and how much time it takes?
Thank you in advance
HSN
“In men who suffer from premature ejaculation … serotonin appears to be less active between the nerves in the section of the brain that controls the ejaculation.” https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/10/081007132509.htm
This paper discusses genetics but dietary and environmental factors can also contribute to low serotonin.
You can find the products I recommend here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-pyroluria-supplements/
Tryptophan or 5-HTP can start to increase serotonin in a few minutes. We use the anxiety/mood/OCD/anger/irritability symptoms as a way to measure if it’s helping and how much to use.
When you are new to the amino acids (and other anxiety nutrition solutions like gluten/sugar/caffeine removal, blood sugar control, gut health, pyroluria etc) my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” is a great place to start. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
Hi Trudy,
Sincere thanks for your work , knowledge and dedication.
I have had severe insomnia for 30 years. It has improved a little since I have been working with a functional medicine practitioner but still affects my quality of life. I have therefore been experimenting with amino acids for the past two years. Although I feel that my anxiety is dialled down, I still wake in the small hours and cannot get back to sleep, have low quality sleep and feel desperate the days after such nights.
I have tried tryptophan, 5 HTP, GABA and theanine. At the moment I am taking the latter three together and have started taking them earlier in the day and at higher doses (accumulatively, approximately, 5 HTP 300-400mg, GABA 1000mg, theanine 300-400mg), as well as when I wake at night. But I am concerned that it is just too much and I cannot fathom how I still cannot sleep. I know that an overactive mind is a big problem for me, but it is not always the case when I lie awake at night. I do not have high cortisol (in fact it had flat lined a while ago but is better now).
Do you have any further advice? What are the safe upper limits of the above, also in the event of pregnancy (not currently my situation)?
I would be very grateful for you help,
Warm wishes,
Rebecca
Rebecca
I have clients go up until they find resolution. We may add melatonin and/or timed-release melatonin too and switch out 5-HTP with tryptophan. Also we make sure GABA/theanine is sublingual.
Next we also look at SIBO, parasites, gluten/sugar/caffeine consumption (and other dietary factors like histamine/glutamates/oxalates and collagen consumption etc), meds side-effects, sex hormone imbalances, sleep apnea and EMFs when someone has waking in the night.
None of them have been studied in pregnancy or breast-feeding.