Upping my tryptophan dose and also including and upping the dose of lithium orotate has been absolutely profound for me.
I’m off my SSRI/antidepressant (which I was off and on for a number of years). I’ve been depression/anxiety free for over a year. So fantastic.
Everyone is bioindividual, of course, so please avoid using my dosing regime, but it wasn’t until I increased the lithium orotate to 20mg a day – 10mg in the AM and PM.
Life changing
Katrin shared this wonderful feedback on Facebook and I’m sharing this today in order to illustrate how much tryptophan dosing can vary, when you may need to up your dosage of tryptophan, how the addition of lithium orotate may be the missing link, and increasing it may help further and to offer hope (as always). And I share my insights and some additional information on lithium orotate.
Katrin was inspired by a post of mine where I discussed increasing tryptophan over and above 500mg twice a day and only taking it when needed). She shared this:
I was taking 3g tryptophan split up between the hours of 2pm and bedtime. 3 grams was what I increased to after floundering on 500mg afternoon and evening. I don’t take it every day (as per your great suggestion of not taking an amino acid if you feel you don’t need to.) But if I’m having a stressful week etc and my serotonin tanks, I’ll start to take it again.
After the initial increase of lithium orotate, in conjunction with the tryptophan increase, that’s when I started to feel the real difference – the icing on the cake, so to speak (sugar-free, gluten free icing and cake, of course). Lithium orotate was the game changer.
She started with 5mg lithium orotate twice a day and then increased it to 10mg twice a day and has recently reduced this (more on this below).
Is there a role for lithium orotate in psychiatry?
If you’re new to lithium orotate, this editorial, Is there a role for lithium orotate in psychiatry?, is a useful introduction. Here are a few highlights:
- The growing evidence from epidemiological studies mirror the cellular studies that suggest lithium is perhaps a crucial trace element necessary for optimum brain functioning. All these studies imply that adequate lithium intake may be neuroprotective. Conversely, inadequate lithium intake (especially in vulnerable individuals) may predispose and/or perpetuate a range of psychiatric and neurodegenerative conditions.
- If further studies confirm this hypothesis, then a safe and effective lithium mineral supplement will be needed to correct this specific mineral deficiency. Advocates of lithium orotate argue that such a supplement already exists and that it is both safe and effective.
- Lithium orotate has been used worldwide, mainly by non-medical health practitioners for over 30 years
Lithium orotate is used at low doses and the dosing is much lower and in a different form to prescription lithium (carbonate) that is prescribed for bipolar disorder. The above editorial explains some of the differences and standard daily dose:
To further illustrate the differences in the daily doses of elemental lithium between the orotate and carbonate forms, a single 120 mg tablet of lithium orotate contains about 5mg of elemental lithium. This is only 10% of the dose of elemental lithium that you would find in a single 250 mg tablet of lithium carbonate, which would have about 50 mg of elemental lithium.
There are no established (medical) guidelines for the daily dose of lithium orotate. However, the standard dose prescribed by alternative health practitioners is a single tablet of 120 mg of lithium orotate a day (which is equivalent to 5 mg of elemental lithium).
The authors conclude with this: “There have only been a few small trials done in humans, and they showed that lithium orotate was effective, safe and generally well tolerated.” Until we have more human trials we have to rely on what we see clinically. And based on what I’ve seen and the feedback from colleagues, there is most definitely a role for lithium orotate in psychiatry.
Lithium orotate works when there are mood swings and anxiety ups and downs
I’ve used lithium orotate with many clients and use it when folks have mood swings and anxiety ups and downs. It’s harder for the amino acids to work when there is a moving goal post and lithium orotate evens things out. Katrin said she resonates with this and this may be why the lithium orotate works so well for her.
There are not many studies on lithium orotate, although it’s exciting that there has been an increase in the last few years. This small study done in 1994, Effects of nutritional lithium supplementation on mood, mentions the “mood-improving and stabilizing effect.” They used a yeast based lithium supplement of 400 μg (which is just 0.4 mg) for former drug users of mostly heroin and crystal methamphetamine.
I also have a low lithium questionnaire and a number of symptoms/signs – other than mood swings – provide a clue that you may have low lithium levels and lithium orotate may need to be trialed. I’ll share this low lithium questionnaire as a separate follow-up blog post.
My insights on Katrin’s approach to increasing her tryptophan and adding/increasing lithium orotate
Katrin increased the tryptophan to 3g and added lithium orotate at the same time. I recommend changing one thing at a time i.e. do a trial or tryptophan, then increase the tryptophan for better results (increasing slowly from 500mg 2 x day to 1000mg 2 x day and then 1500mg 2 x day, and tracking symptom improvements); then add lithium orotate; and then increase lithium orotate for even better results. But if it’s done the way Katrin did it, you simply unwind things so you can figure out what is really working for you.
Keep in mind, the starting dose for tryptophan is 500mg twice a day and lithium orotate is 5mg once a day. I would never recommend that anyone starts on 3g tryptophan or 20mg lithium orotate.
Experimenting with different doses and combinations
Katrin stayed at this dosing and combination of tryptophan and lithium orotate for close to a year. When something is working well, you understandably don’t want to change things. But more recently she has been experimenting with different doses and combinations. She is what is is doing now:
- “currently trying lithium orotate by itself, during the day while only taking 1g tryptophan at night before bed.”
- “now I only take a lithium orotate dose of 5mg twice a day and I do that every second day. It’s working for me.”
This is the perfect way to adjust things and if she finds the new combination doesn’t work over the coming weeks and months she can adjust again.
Also, keep in mind that your needs change as your hormones fluctuate, when you’re under more stress, with seasonal changes (winter time/winter blues and due to seasonal allergies), if you’re exposed to a toxin such as lead (it can impact serotonin levels) or parasites etc.
It goes without saying that diet must be addressed too – gluten-free, sugar-free, caffeine-free, real whole food, quality animal protein, organic vegetables and fruit, fermented foods and healthy fats.
Resources if you are new to using the amino acids as supplements
If you are new to using any of the amino acids as supplements, here is the Amino Acids Mood Questionnaire from The Antianxiety Food Solution (you can see all the symptoms of neurotransmitter imbalances).
If you suspect low levels of any of the neurotransmitters and do not yet have my book, The Antianxiety Food Solution – How the Foods You Eat Can Help You Calm Your Anxious Mind, Improve Your Mood, and End Cravings, I highly recommend getting it and reading it before jumping in and using amino acids on your own so you are knowledgeable. And be sure to share it with the practitioner/health team you or your loved one is working with.
There is an entire chapter on the amino acids and they are discussed throughout the book in the sections on gut health, gluten, blood sugar control, sugar cravings, self-medicating with alcohol and more. There is also an entire chapter on gluten and grains if this is new to you.
The book doesn’t include product names (per the publisher’s request) so this blog, The Antianxiety Food Solution Amino Acid and Pyroluria Supplements, lists the amino acids that I use with my individual clients and those in my group programs.
You can find the Lidtke Tryptophan products I use and a number of different lithium orotate products in my online Fullscript store.
If, after reading this blog and my book, you don’t feel comfortable figuring things out on your own (i.e. doing the symptoms questionnaire and respective amino acids trials), a good place to get help is the GABA QuickStart Program (if you have low GABA symptoms). This is a paid online/virtual group program where you get my guidance and community support. There are many moms in the program who are having much success with their kids.
If you are a practitioner, join us in The Balancing Neurotransmitters: the Fundamentals program. This is also a paid online/virtual program with an opportunity to interact with me and other practitioners who are also using the amino acids.
With much appreciation for Katrin for sharing her wonderful success story – I’m so thrilled for her! I’d love to get this published as case studies to further add to the evidence. If you are a researcher or have a resource for me please do let me know.
Did you need to adjust your tryptophan dose for easing your anxiety, depression and other low serotonin symptoms? What adjustments did you make?
Have you found the addition of lithium orotate has helped keep things more even so the amino acids are more effective? What dosing works for you?
If you’re a practitioner, do you find the addition of lithium orotate to be helpful for your patients/clients?
If you have questions please share them here too.
Dear Trudy;
It is very special that people have a place to go, with your website, to gain the knowledge of natural medicine for emotional issues. This is so empowering. Thank you for your work!
Dear Trudy thank you so much for the work that you do. Psychiatrists could learn a lot from you
Dr Georgia in New Zealand
Dr. Georgia
Thanks for the very kind words! Hopefully you are using the amino acids in the work you do?
I take every opportunity to share my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/ and practitioner training https://www.anxietynutritioninstitute.com/balancingneurotransmitters/ with them and other practitioners. The interest is growing by leaps and bounds!
Ellen
You are very welcome!
Lithium orotate is thyroid suppressive, so if you have hypothyroidism or Hashimoto’s I’d be very careful. It can also cause kidney damage.
Where do you obtain info about lithium orotate?
Kare
Please see my feedback for Judy
Judy
You are referring to lithium carbonate which is a prescription, used at much high doses and does affect the thyroid and kidneys. Please see the information under the heading – Is there a role for lithium orotate in psychiatry? Lithium carbonate is used at 10x (and often more) the dose. This article is about low dose lithium orotate which is very different.
Be sure to read the editorial I link to. It also discusses safety and cautions
“There is no definitive evidence for the long-term safety of LO. It is, however, reassuring that there have been no reported cases of death or serious side effects in more than 40 years of LO use in the United States and Europe.
Nevertheless, the issues of safety would be paramount to consider especially in vulnerable populations, e.g., the elderly, people who have had previous kidney or thyroid problems and individuals who have ‘normal’ kidney and thyroid function but with an underlying pharmacogenetic susceptibility to lithium-induced renal or thyroid impairment.”
I have yet to hear that lithium orotate is a problem with this population but it is worth monitoring and discussing with the doctor until we have more research.
If you do have personal or clinical feedback to share please do.
I didn’t notice a difference when I took Tryptophan. I will say adding 5 mg of lithium orotate was helpful when I couldn’t get my Duloxetine refilled and had to stop cold Turkey but haven’t noticed much difference since being back on duloxetine. I also have Hashimoto’s so I take the lithium orotate in the evening.
Karyn
Thanks for sharing. Tryptophan won’t help if someone doesn’t have low serotonin, if it’s not a high enough dose and when thyroid health is not optimal. As you can see from this case, Katrin only saw benefits after increasing her dose of tryptophan. Keep in mind some folks also do better on tryptophan and some do better on 5-HTP.
Katrin also started on 5mg lithium orotate and saw results once she had increased it to 20mg/day.
I’m not suggesting you do any of the above but to discuss all this with your practitioner.
In addition to the amino acids and nutrients like lithium orotate we need to also address other anxiety nutrition solutions like real whole food, quality animal protein, fermented foods, organic produce, health fats, gluten/sugar/caffeine removal, blood sugar control, gut health, pyroluria etc. My book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” is a great place to start. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/ It’s a comprehensive approach – amino acids AND diet.
I was just reading the messages and this woman was increasing her tryptophan. Please be careful with too much tryptophan as it can cause liver damage. It did for me 35 years ago when I was having panic attacks. I took it at very high doses for a couple months and got very sick with toxic hepatitis. I have had to deal with liver and anxiety issues ever since!! Please be careful…
Luke
I’m sorry to hear. How much tryptophan did you use and which product. May I ask if you had any liver problems before using tryptophan – this is one contraindication of tryptophan.
Hi Trudy and thank you for all you do! You are a blessing! Can you advise which Lithium Orotate you recommmend? I started out with Seeking Health 5 mg a couple of years ago and recently switched to Pure Encapsulations which has some NAC in it. I have had pretty severe insomnia and subsequent anxiety and depression on and off for 2 years and cannot tolerate RX meds because my system is extremely sensitive. I have had some good results for anxiety most of the time with Gaba Calm but the tryptophan does not seem to ever help my sleep although I have only gone up to 2 caps of Lidke. I guess I need to stick with it and go higher until it helps my sleep? I appreciate your input and realize you can’t give specific advice, only generally ☺️
Katherine
You’re most welcome and thanks for sharing. I prefer a lithium only product (like Seeking Health or Klaire Labs or Complementary Prescriptions) because of the ability to adjust up and down. Pure Encapsulations state this “N-acetyl-l-cysteine (NAC) is a precursor to glutathione, the major antioxidant in the brain, and is added to this formula for enhanced protection of brain cell membranes.” If needed, I’d use NAC on it’s own. But it really depends on each person’s unique needs.
Tryptophan won’t help if someone doesn’t have low serotonin, if it’s not a high enough dose and when thyroid health is not optimal. As you can see from this case, Katrin only saw benefits after increasing her dose of tryptophan. Keep in mind some folks also do better on tryptophan and some do better on 5-HTP.
Katrin also started on 5mg lithium orotate and saw results once she had increased it to 20mg/day. I have seen both help so much with sleep issues especially in menopause. And we explore higher doses of GABA-only for sleep too.
I’m not suggesting you do any of the above but to discuss all this with your practitioner.
In addition to the amino acids and nutrients like lithium orotate we need to also address other anxiety nutrition solutions like real whole food, quality animal protein, fermented foods, organic produce, health fats, gluten/sugar/caffeine removal, blood sugar control, gut health, pyroluria etc. My book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” is a great place to start. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/ It’s a comprehensive approach – amino acids AND diet.
Next we also look at high cortisol, SIBO, parasites, other dietary factors like histamine/glutamates/oxalates and collagen consumption, meds side-effects, sex hormone imbalances, sleep apnea, dietary oxalate issues and EMFs when someone has sleep issues.
How much time does it take for antidepressants to be out of body completely. I want to expirament with tryptophan or 5-htp. Perhaps lithium orotate. Thanks!
Kare
This is a bigger discussion outside of this post and best done in collaboration with the prescribing doctor and a knowledgable practitioner. Tapering can take months and months and even years in some cases. Best is to read this blog and work with and discuss with your prescribing doctor as there is the risk of serotonin syndrome with SSRIs and tryptophan/5-HTP https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/taper-from-antidepressant-tryptophan-amino-acids/
If this is not possible I’ve had client’s work with a knowledgeable pharmacist (with the doctor’s monitoring) or find a new doctor or share my book with him.
I have my clients get nutritionally stable BEFORE starting any medication taper (with their doctor’s approval of course) and this prevents many of the adverse effects. This means eating real food, no gluten, no caffeine, no sugar, quality animal protein, eating for blood sugar control and addressing gut health, the adrenals etc (everything I cover in my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” – more here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/). And then we use the amino acids during the taper (all with the doctor’s approval and monitoring).
I look forward to your lithium questionairre! I relate to the description of changing goalposts. Tryptophan and GABA have certainly helped, but not resolved my symptoms. Perhaps lithium will be a useful addition. (Side note – my daughters’ practitioner recommended lithium to help with the impulsivity component of their ADHD. HUGE results there. Brain functioning is so fascinating!)
Michelle
Wonderful to hear that tryptophan and GABA have helped. Don’t forget we increase in order to find the optimal dosing. I’d be curious to hear how much are you using and which products?
And don’t forget the dietary and other aspects like real whole food, quality animal protein, fermented foods, organic produce, health fats, gluten/sugar/caffeine removal, blood sugar control, gut health, pyroluria etc all covered in my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution”. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
Wonderful to hear lithium orotate is helping your daughter’s impulsivity component of their ADHD. I’d love to how much has helped.
Stay tuned for the low lithium questionnaire. Mood swings, changing goalposts and impulsivity are on the list
I’ve been using lithium orotate since 2018, it has been tremendously helpful in cutting back on the obsessive thoughts that surface when my life gets too stressful. Great Plains Laboratory did my heavy metals test and lithium was waaay below their baseline, so I’ve been taking it more regularly to up the numbers. Unfortunately Canada has suddenly stopped allowing the sale or importation of lithium orotate – any suggestions for an alternate option that works magic in a similar way? Please and thank you!
Kate
Thanks for sharing about your wonderful results with lithium orotate. Please do share how much has been helping you. And did you retest and see levels increase? Was it a hair test?
I’d love to hear when it stopped being available online and over the counter. My understanding is that it is still available via prescription and compounding pharmacies.
This paper was published August 2021 by Canadian researchers – Lithium orotate: A superior option for lithium therapy? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8413749/ Hopefully this may lead to changes so it’s more easily available again
Hello Trudy, I am taking duloxetine 30mg at breakfast, can I take lithium orotate and tryptophan in order to leave duloxetine and how and when? I had a mineral/metal test and I have 0.02 lithium (it must be below 0.10), it is a sign that taking lithium orotate will help me? Can I have a consultation with you via internet or phone, I live in Spain? Thank you very much for everything
Hi Trudy
I had been taking Zoloft for many years until last year when it suddenly stopped working after I took the vaccine my doctor put me in cymbalta but tried being on it 6 months and had worsening anxiety and depression so went back on Zoloft they kept on increasing my dose and I felt worse and finally had to change my doctor who tapered me off Zoloft but have this debilitating physical symptoms where I feel like my whole body is shaking when it is not I do take gaba supplement by company called levium I tried taking 5 htp by pure encapsulated but it made me irritable and felt like I had shortness of breath or I had anxiety I don’t know the side effects of ssri got better but have this weeping bouts ,anxiety panic attacks and too scared to try anything what amino acid would you recommend for me I did buy lidke l tryptophan but have not tried it as I don’t know if I have low seratonin or high but past week I feel too wired any guidance would be appreciated
Thank you
Nilaxi
I always start with addressing low serotonin with tryptophan (and sometimes consider lithium orotate too) and low GABA with GABA – this can help with anxiety and panic attacks.
The best way to determine if someone may have low GABA/serotonin is to look at the low GABA/serotonin symptoms, rate them on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being worst, do a trial of the respective amino acid and rate the symptoms again right afterwards (in the next 2 to 30 minutes). Here are the symptoms https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-mood-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/
I prefer a GABA only or GABA/theanine product or GABA Calm to a product like Levium which has so many ingredients and isn’t sublingual. More on forms of GABA here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/using-750-mg-gaba-in-a-hard-tablet-form-for-anxiety-i-do-not-experience-the-flush-but-i-am-also-not-sure-it-is-doing-much-of-anything-for-me/
5-HTP can make some folks feel wired https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/does-5-htp-make-you-wired-tired-and-affect-your-sleep-when-cortisol-is-high-yes-and-not-sure-and-no-5-htp-was-miraculous/
If you are new to the amino acids (and other anxiety nutrition solutions like real whole food, quality animal protein, fermented foods, organic produce, health fats, gluten/sugar/caffeine removal, blood sugar control, gut health, pyroluria etc) my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” is a great place to start. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
It’s a comprehensive approach – amino acids AND diet. What is your diet like right now – gluten-free, sugar-free, caffeine-free, eating protein at breakfast for blood sugar control, real whole foods, grass-fed red meat, wild fish, fermented foods etc?
i was wodering have you got you panic attacks under control i once was on levium im on lithuim oratae 10 mg a day but still have anger issues ptsd panic attacks crying fits i just want to get better 1 take b vitamans d , just got gaba calm but just read it lowers blood pressuer scared to take that
Jane
Sorry to hear you’re struggling. I always start with the amino acids GABA and/or tryptophan for panic attacks. Anger issues can be caused by low serotonin and low blood sugar. Crying can be due to low endorphins and DPA helps.
My book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” is a great place for the foundations and has a chapter on the amino acids with dosing/timing information. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/ There are also plenty of articles here on the blog so be sure to use the search feature.
GABA is seldom an issue when it comes to low blood pressure. My online GABA Quickstart group program is helpful when you have questions related to GABA and need guidance (and moral support/encouragement). More here about the program and purchase info https://www.anxietynutritioninstitute.com/gabaquickstart/
What dosage of lithium orotate would you recommend and gaba and serotoin also the others you suggested I take. Are any of them dangerous or have bad side effects I can’t really go out of the house cause of my panic attack s I’m costly worrying depression I don’t want to be on meds I have trouble on my daily routine plz help me
Dolly
Since you’re new to the amino acids, my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” has an entire chapter on the aminos with detailed info on doses and times. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/ I also cover all the nutritional aspects for helping to ease anxiety.
Thank you so much for your work!! I happened to read by chance not long ago on great plains lab website about lithium *reducing* methylation. Do you find this is the case? I am severely undermethylated (lab confirmed) with lab confirmed Pyroluria. At the same time I had a test done that measured cell levels of minerals and my lithium was low normal. Also, I’m TTC. The internet tells me that perscription lithium has a small chance of causing birth defects (one specific one), but that a woman should keep taking it and be monitored for blood lithium levels. Is this the case for supplemental lithium? Or is the dose so low that it’s irrelevant? If I decide to stop taking it due to pregnancy, can I just drop off it, or would I need to wean off? Thank you so much for your time!!
Avigail
I have not seen this undermethylation issue but have also not looked into it in great detail. If you would post a link to the article I’d be happy to read it.
The research on lithium and birth defects relates to lithium carbonate used in high doses for bipolar disorder. Here is one of the papers – Lithium during pregnancy and after delivery: a review https://journalbipolardisorders.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40345-018-0135-7
Unfortunately there is no research on lithium orotate in pregnancy.
There is no weaning needed when stopping lithium orotate.
Hi Trudy, I have tried 500 mg of tryptophan for sleep a few times and it never helped. I’ve had insomnia going on 2 years and 9 months now after weaning off of a cocktail of three depression medications. I tried 20 mg of lithium orotate at bedtime for sleep for a while and I think it helped somewhat.
About a week ago, I restarted LO – one at breakfast, one at lunch two at bedtime (for a total of 20 mg). Not sure if it’s helping with the sleep/depression yet. Do you think this is a good dosing route or just take 10 mg at breakfast and 10 mg at bedtime?
I am open to retrying tryptophan. Does it make sense to do 500 mg in the day and 500 mg at bedtime or just try 1000 mg at bed?
I am working with a functional MD and not really getting anywhere. The gut test showed parasites and she prescribed an antibiotic. It also showed candida, though I am not real trusting that candida is real, in the sense that it causes a ton of health conditions. Many years ago I did the diet for three months and swallowed a handful of supplements and it did nothing for me.
Now she is suggesting a SIBO breath test. Do you think they are reliable? She says if it does show SIBO, she can prescribe antibiotics whereas the IBS I was diagnosed with years ago, there’s no cure.
She thinks that the gut issues could be the cause of the insomnia. I am partial to inflammation as I seem to have my best nights sleep when I take Tylenol, Advil or Meloxicam for pain. I am now taking 500 mg of turmeric two times a day (meriva form) – though I am switching to Curcumin 95 tomorrow (same 500 mg two times a day) and boswellia 500 mg once a day (started yesterday) to see if they help…
Gary
I can’t provide specific feedback on dosing and timing via the blog. But as I’ve shared in the blog, higher doses are often needed, we trial various combinations and everyone is unique.
I do find Lidtke tryptophan to be superior, with sleep dosing more tryptophan at night often helps and adding in LO often helps too. Timing of LO seems to be best spread out through the day.
There are many causes of insomnia and yes gut issues like parasites, candida and even SIBO can contribute. Addressing inflammation is key too and an anti-inflammatory diet is key too (no gluten, no sugar, real whole foods and more).
For insomnia I always start with addressing low serotonin with tryptophan (and melatonin if needed) and low GABA with GABA – this can help with insomnia and anxiety. In addition to this and gut health, we also look at high cortisol, blood sugar balance, gluten/sugar/caffeine consumption (and other dietary factors like histamine/glutamates/oxalates and collagen consumption etc), meds side-effects (effects from tapering can also be an issue), sex hormone imbalances, sleep apnea and EMFs).
My book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” addresses all this in addition the amino acids: real whole food, quality animal protein, fermented foods, organic produce, healthy fats, gluten/sugar/caffeine removal, blood sugar control, gut health. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
Thank you so much for the feedback and advice. I ordered your book and Lidtke trytophan. Both should arrive on Sunday. I will start with 500 mg of the tryptophan at bedtime along with my magnesium, .500 mg of melatonin and L-Serine (though I don’t think it’s doing anything). I think I’ll give the tryptophan a week before deciding to up it to 1000 mg at bed and add lithium orotate, unless you think otherwise. I stopped the LO a couple of days ago.
I have a pretty clean diet – vegan, no sugar or caffeine. I do eat gluten and may try to cut it out for a bit to see if that helps. I have avoided gluten in the past, once for 6 months and did not really notice much difference in overall health, but did not have insomnia then.
I did a saliva test which showed extremely low levels of melatonin at night but normal cortisol. I’ve tried higher doses of melatonin – 3 mg, 5 mg and 10 mg. None did much.
I have a weird relationship with GABA. I swear the depression is worse in the morning and day when I take it at bedtime. Though I have taken it the past two nights with no poor reaction. I take Thorne pharma gaba 100. Usually when I take it I take one 100 mg pill. I tried GABA Calm and one other in the past.
I had my testosterone tested twice recently. Both times came back with just slightly over the minimum. My urologist gave me a testosterone shot twice – one every three weeks. I did not notice a positive effect and sleep got worse over those six weeks. The functional MD has me on DHEA 25 mg and pregnenalone. I may go back to the urologist and ask for home shots or a cream.
Anyway, thank you again for your help and your work!
Gary
I do tryptophan trials and add LO once the trial is complete.
As you’ll see in my book I do advocate quality animal protein (humanely treated) so as a vegan other potential deficiencies need to be addressed – low B12, low zinc, low iron, low omega-3s.
Gluten issues can contribute to these and other deficiences so it’s both the gluten and the nutritional deficiencies caused.
Thank you again, Trudy. I truly appreciate your help.
I will trial the tryptophan when it arrives tonight before adding LO back into the equation. I also purchased Double Wood’s GABA, which is 500 mg per capsule. I like their products. Should I hold off on starting the GABA for a while while playing with the tryptophan or add them both at bedtime?
Regarding: As you’ll see in my book I do advocate quality animal protein (humanely treated) so as a vegan other potential deficiencies need to be addressed – low B12, low zinc, low iron, low omega-3s.
I was having some B12 issues once I tested positive for MTHFR. I tried the methyl version and a couple of others. I recently tested just above the lowest for B12, so have been taking 1000 mg per day for a couple of weeks to get it back up. The functional MD said not to take it as it is stimulating, but this is dangerous for a longtime vegan. I am normally in the mid range on B12 tests, so I know I an get it back up by continuing to supplement.
She had also told me to stop zinc for the same stimulating reason. I am going to restart it tonight. I take a vegan Omega 3 with DHA and EPA. I have iron on hand, but am a bit scared to take it again.
Hi Trudy, thank you again for all of your advice. You have been so kind.
So, it has been about two weeks. I have been taking 1000 mg of Lidtke L-Tryptophan at bedtime. I have been taking 1000 mg of Double Wood GABA at bedtime as well. When I inevitably awaken around 3 ish, I now take an additional 1000 mg of GABA and find that I am able to fall asleep again, which is huge. I’m averaging about 6.5 hours up from around 6. Strangely, my REM and Deep sleep are lower according to my Oura Ring.
My sleep has been slightly backtracking over the past three nights. Mostly falling asleep. If I don’t fall asleep within 30 minutes I have been adding an additional 500 mg of GABA.
I think my mood is also a bit better. My question to you is, can I add an additional tryptophan at bedtime to see if I sleep better? That would put me at 1500 mg or do you think maybe adding the 500 mg during the day would help me start falling asleep better? Am I taking too much GABA? Do you think I should start back up with the lithium orotate?
Sorry for so many questions! I have your book and plan to get to it next week after I get back from surgery and the hospital. Thank you again.
Generally I’m super sensitive to supplements or RX. I decided to start with the 100mg chewable tryptophan once and then twice a day. But I feel like a yo-yo effect on that. I feel good for a few hours and then my mood tanks. What if I take more? Will I have higher highs and lower lows?
Mary
Tryptophan is best dosed midafternoon and evening. With a yo-yo effect additional dosing earlier and more frequently can help. As mentioned in the blog lithium orotate can help with some of the ups and downs.
If you are new to the amino acids (and other anxiety nutrition solutions like real whole food, quality animal protein, fermented foods, organic produce, health fats, gluten/sugar/caffeine removal, blood sugar control, gut health, pyroluria etc) my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” is a great place to start. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
It’s a comprehensive approach – amino acids AND diet. What is your diet like right now – gluten-free, sugar-free, caffeine-free, eating protein at breakfast for blood sugar control, real whole foods, grass-fed red meat, wild fish, fermented foods etc?
Hi Trudy
Thank you for all your work!!!! I would love to try lithium, can you please let me know which one to buy? i know you have a shop but i can’t get it to work?
Karin
In Australia, Swanson is a good option or the Kal product from iherb. Use this link to save 5% https://www.iherb.com/?rcode=BAN2021
Thank you Trudy
I’ve just ordered.
What do you recommend for insomnia,,,,, take it at night?
Trudy, thank you so much for the valuable work you do. The interaction with your followers here on the blog is the most polite, professional and empathetic I’ve ever seen. Congratulations for helping us so much and for sharing your experience with us. As you like us to tell our experiences, follow mine, shortly.
I have always taken antidepressants and anxiolytics. From the moment I started a paleo diet, free of gluten, vegetable oil, etc, etc… I noticed that my depression diminished (to the point of stopping the antidepressants), but the anxiety remained (even because often from factors that we have no control over). I saw on your blog about lithium oratate. I did research and started using 5mg and then 5mg more. My anxiety almost disappeared. My mood has improved a lot. I tried increasing the dose, but it made no difference. But, when an inexplicable sadness hits, I take 15mg at once and then it gets better.
I used tryptophan and it helped me a lot, but after a while, it didn’t work anymore. One day, I discovered NAC. I researched its use in psychiatry and was stunned. When I took it for the first time (600mg, now) it was like taking away my anxiety “by hand” (I took it at 5:00 pm, my most stressful time after work). My irritation was gone; I felt boundless peace. Then I started taking another 600 (an hour before bed) and it relaxed me even more. I regained my balance and my life has improved a lot.
Oratato and Nac are my “lifesavers”. NAC: 17:00 and 22:30 (600 each dose, NOW or dr Best, because of the addition of selenium and molybdenum). Lithium, 5mg upon waking and 5mg at 4pm. NAC: always away from protein (two hours after meals or half an hour before). NAC, at first, gives a burning sensation in the stomach, but that passes in a few days. I still have problems sleeping (early awakening, between 3 and 5 am), but I am looking for a solution. But I owe a lot to your blog, as I discovered Lithium and tryptophan here.
Sorry if I was too wordy. Thank you so much and may God bless you always.
Sander
Thanks for sharing your journey and success (not too wordy) with NAC and lithium, and tryptophan initially (and your very kind words). We are all unique and need to find what works for us. I have blogged about NAC here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/trichotillomania-nac-gaba-tryptophan-inositol-zinc/ It works well when their are detox issues and high glutamate.
With the sleep issues we look at low GABA, high cortisol, SIBO, parasites, blood sugar balance, gluten/sugar/caffeine consumption (and other dietary factors like histamine/glutamates/oxalates and collagen consumption etc), meds side-effects, sex hormone imbalances, sleep apnea, dietary oxalate issues and EMFs etc
Thank you very much for the reply, Trudy. Currently, I have reintroduced tryptophan (500mg in the afternoon, 4pm, plus 750mg, 30 minutes before bed). It’s helping me a lot!!!! I believe that the support I now give with P-5-P is helping… Just one more question, Trudy: from your experience, should I take it, for better absorption, with carbohydrates (honey or bananas, for example) or In fasting? Thank you very much 🙂
Sander
Glad to hear the tryptophan and P5P is helping so much. I typically don’t use carbs with tryptophan but may have a client experiment both ways (if they are interested) to see what works best for them. I’d love to hear back from you when you do
Hi Trudy, Have you noticed tryptophan causing depression or anxiety? I tried it two different times, and it drove up anxiety and caused a lot of depression (which I don’t normally deal with – I’m more on the anxious side). Just curious!
Jennifer
Yes if too much is used. Curious how much you used and which products? Also some folks just do better on 5-HTP
Hello Trudy,
After reading many of your wonderful testimonies around anxiety and depression issues, I am kindly writing to ask for your opinion. I am a mother of 3, just turned 51, already in the peri menopausal stage, with severe day and night flashes, and a very bad anxiety which tends to be worse in the mornings. I recently (about a month ago) got off escitalopram (10mg) which I took for about two years and since I was feeling better (not 100% well, though) I decided to stop it. However, the severe anxiety symptoms are coming back:
– Low capacity to cope with stress or any emotional issue
– Nervousness
– Tingling/numbness in my legs and arms
– Palpitations/tachycardia and even pain in my chest
– Intrusive thoughts/irrational fears, mostly in the mornings
– Poor concentration as I keep on ruminating about what I feel/think
– Sense of burning in my chest accompanied by a feeling of distress and seeing everything around me as “dark and depressive”.
– No problem to fall asleep but difficulty to stay asleep
– When anxiety is very high I loose my appetite
– According to my last test lab all my blood levels seem to be fine apart from my thyroid antibodies that are super high for Hashimoto, although the Dr said my thyroid levels are within the normal range.
Before I jump into any of the amino acids you recommend in your blog, as I think I am the kind of low GABA, low serotonin, low endorphins and probably low zinc/vit B6 type, I would like to know your thoughts on how to start for better results.
Thank you very much.
MM
I have my clients gets nutritionally stable (see below) before they start to taper but all of the following can help some of the discontinuation syndrome symptoms. However when psych meds are tapered too fast discontinuation syndrome symptoms can be very troublesome and some folks work with their doctor to get back on the med and then taper very slowly. Be sure to discuss with your prescribing doctor.
I have clients starts with the neurotransmitter deficiency that is causing the most trouble for them and addressing one at a time.
If you are new to the amino acids (and other anxiety nutrition solutions like real whole food, quality animal protein, fermented foods, organic produce, health fats, gluten/sugar/caffeine removal, blood sugar control, gut health, pyroluria etc) my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” is a great place to start. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
It’s a comprehensive approach – amino acids AND diet. What is your diet like right now – gluten-free, sugar-free, caffeine-free, eating protein at breakfast for blood sugar control, real whole foods, grass-fed red meat, wild fish, fermented foods etc?
My book does have an entire chapter on the amino acids and many folks do really well implementing on their own. My online GABA Quickstart group program is helpful when you have questions and need guidance (and moral support/encouragement). More here about the program and purchase info https://www.anxietynutritioninstitute.com/gabaquickstart/
Hello,
I hope this finds you well
I was wondering if c.b.d oil can be taken with lithium Orotate? The c.b.d dose is two drops per night (it says on the bottle 5% /500mg)
Thankyou so much for all the great work you have been doing.
Kind regards
Sarah
Sarah
I’m not aware of issues combining the two
Thanks Trudy, that’s great
Kind regards
Sarah
Hello again,
I also meant to ask if lithium Orotate can cause toxicity at any dose?
Kind regards
Sarah
Sarah
I link to a paper that discusses this in this blog https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/low-lithium-questionnaire-and-how-we-use-lithium-orotate-with-the-amino-acids/
Hello
I have been having antidepressant withdrawal for over 2 years now. I do not get any better. What can I do?
John
I’m sorry to hear. I have clients get nutritionally stable before starting to taper but addressing diet and nutritional imbalances after the fact can help a great deal too. My book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” is a great resource https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
Hello,
I am in depression for 6 months
I didn t want antidepressant so I took Sam-e for a month.Now I want to stop it and try lithium oratate 5 mg.I steel feel very tired,without energy or happiness,do you think it could help me, how long should I take it?
I tried 5mg daily of Seeking Health Lithium Orotate and it seems to keep my anxiety stable. I take it away from food late morning. It has been 10 days so far. I may start a late afternoon 5mg dose too. I have a slow COMT SNP per gene testing and they recommended Li Orotate. I also have to avoid methyl donors. Also looking at Apigenin too.
Bob
Thanks for sharing your results with lithium orotate.
I do find Lithium Orotate quite, quite helpful for GAD disorder. Can you have an appointment online to follow your results??
Thank you in advance
Juan
Glad to hear LO is helpful. I’m not sure what your question means?
thanks for your reply. My question was regarding.that i do not know if you share all this knowlegde through here or through a professional online appointmenr. Anyway thanks for sharing. i really do appreciate It.