Ron Sturtz, Owner/President, Lidtke Technologies, was interviewed on the Anxiety Summit by host of the Anxiety Summit, Trudy Scott, Food Mood Expert and Nutritionist, author of The Antianxiety Food Solution.
Tryptophan for anxiety, depression and insomnia: why quality is key and the critical co-factors
- The benefits of tryptophan for anxiety/mood/insomnia and why Trudy only recommends Lidtke
- Tryptophan history and why safety and quality is key
- Concerns about neurotoxic quinolinic acid
- Tryptophan 500mg, kids chewable, Tryptophan Complete, and tryptophan for pets
- Why use lysine, vitamin B3, B6/P5P, folate and curcumin with tryptophan
- Other serotonin co-factors and 5-HTP
- Client feedback and how to use these amino acids
In part 1 we start by discussing the history, the controversy in 1990 over contaminated L-tryptophan, the impurities that lead to the EMS outbreak and why Lidtke has “been fanatical about purity and safety” since then:
the main [impurity] was EBT [1,1′-ethylidene-bis-L-tryptophan] and that was the one that they suspected was the most heavily implicated. They never could identify exactly which ones were toxic or in combination. It could be like numbers one, two and five in combination were deadly or two and six in combination more deadly or maybe just six alone was deadly. They never were able to determine that because they never found an animal model to use in research because when they would feed the rats or any other kind of animal, lab animal they had samples of this known toxic tryptophan, none of them responded the way humans do. They have a very different gut flora and metabolism and they never responded the same so they weren’t about to use humans in any of these clinical trials so they never really could tell which of those six were the worst, but they strongly suspected that EBT was the worst
Ron covers how glyphosate/Roundup is contributing to low serotonin levels:
…the food crops absorb the chemical, they still soak it up and then they’re sent to market and you buy them and you cook them and you eat then and then you soak it up. Well, you don’t produce tryptophan or phenylalanine, but your gut bacteria to do. And preferentially the beneficial gut bacteria tend to be killed by the glyphosates. So when that happens the pathogenic bacteria tend to dominate. And then when that happens when they grow kind of out of control then even more tryptophan is used up by the macrophages, which then attack the pathogens.
If you’d like to read more about this we covered this is much more detail in these interviews:
- Stephanie Seneff presented in season 1: Is Roundup toxic and a cause of anxiety, autism and celiac disease?
- Jeffrey Smith presented in season 2: on Anxiety, depression, GMOs and Roundup
In part 2 Ron reviews the serotonin biochemistry:
And we discuss the Tryptophan Complete product, the ingredients and rationale for including P5P, lysine, curcumin, folic acid and niacinamide. This is my feedback on the product:
the Tryptophan Complete is one that I’m not as familiar with as the 500 milligram Tryptophan. I’ve been using the 500 milligram with my clients for over ten years. The Tryptophan Complete is just a new one that’s sort of come on my radar and I started looking into it and I actually posted something on Facebook a few months ago and then did a blog post to get feedback from people [see below]. And I’ve had some promising feedback. I’ve had one person say “I’ve used the Tryptophan Complete and liked it a lot better than the 500 milligrams. It gave me a much deeper state of relaxation and a way more solid sleep.” She used that, got benefits then tried the 500 and now has decided to go back to the Complete. So she feels that the addition of the other ingredients really helped for her body chemistry. I did have someone else say that she can’t do P5P at all. It makes her agitated. So for people who have individual reactions to any of the ingredients then you would go with the 500 milligrams.
Here is my blog: Tryptophan 500mg or Tryptophan Complete (by Lidtke)?
And my supplements blog that lists Lidtke tryptophan products (500mg tryptophan, Tryptophan Complete and Tryptophan 100mg chewable), other amino acid products and pyroluria products I recommend: The Antianxiety Food Solution Amino Acid and Pyroluria Supplements
You can also find the amino acid questionnaire (which lists the low serotonin symptoms) and amino acid precautions on the above blog.
Here is some of the research:
- Tryptophan supplementation modulates social behavior: A review
- Chronic treatment with a tryptophan-rich protein hydrolysate improves emotional processing, mental energy levels and reaction time in middle-aged women
- A placebo-controlled clinical trial of L-tryptophan in premenstrual dysphoria.
- Lysine fortification reduces anxiety and lessens stress in family members in economically weak communities in Northwest Syria.
Lidtke is kindly offering 15% off all Lidtke products through the end of June – use coupon code anxietysummit
If you are not already registered for the Anxiety Summit you can get live access to the speakers of the day here: www.theAnxietySummit.com
Missed this interview or can’t listen live? Or want this and the other great interviews for your learning library? Purchase the MP3s or MP3s + transcripts and listen when it suits you.
You can find your purchasing options here.: Anxiety Summit Season 1, Anxiety Summit Season 2, Anxiety Summit Season 3, and Anxiety Summit Season 4.
As a Health Coach, and someone going through my own healing process, this interview was very informative.
I became a health coach through the Institute for Integrative Nutrution, to help me deal with some health issues. I am still working on my journey to recovery, and would love to test out Lidke products. I am on no medications, and I eat a clean diet. My energy levels are low, and I still have many days when I feel “flat”.
Trying Tryptophan may be a good move for me.
I have been diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue, and Sideroblastic Anemia. My iron levels are elevated.
Lucie
So glad you enjoyed the interviews. I have my clients do the amino acid questionnaire https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-mood-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/ and then do a trial https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/how-to-do-an-amino-acid-trial-for-anxiety/
In addition to the low serotonin section on the questionnaire you may also want to look at the low catecholamines section (based on these comments of yours: low energy, flat)
When you look back at the diet of prehistoric peoples, paleo-anthropologists tell us that the average intake of folic acid (not methylfolate) was approximately 5mg per day, far above the amount found in dietary supplements today. Dr. Weston Price traveled the world visiting many tribes and groups of people who still consumed diets very similar to the diets common to ancient man. Almost without exception, those people were far healthier than those consuming a modern diet. At Lidtke, we have searched far and wide for a form of folate that approximates the form found in the diet of ancient man. The best that we have found is the Organic Lemon Peel Extract which we now provide in all of our products that require folate. We see no contraindications for the use of this ingredient. Methylfolate on the other hand may bypass our natural methylation feedback controls and may be contraindicated for a portion of the population who are prone to elevated methylation. Lidtke strives to benefit the widest population possible, and for this reason we have chosen to use our Organic Lemon Peel Extract as a source of folate. We realize that some labels posted to the internet may be obsolete, and we are working to replace them with our most current labels. I hope this helps!
I greatly appreciate this reply from Lidtke! Adding a version of this response to the website would benefit customers. People look for the form of folate and when they see “folic acid” they might reject the product. I always do because I was ignorant of the fact that folic acid could be obtained from lemon peel. I automatically reject products containing folic acid. Now I know better. Thank you for clarifying!
Lucie,
Here is a quick link to learn more about the Lidtke Tryptophan products:
http://store.lidtke.com/collections/tryptogold-l-tryptophan
I’m surprised to see that the Lidtke Tryptophan Complete has folic acid in it. They emphasize how important quality is and use the cheaper form of folate.
I won’t use that product, or any product with FOLIC acid and not folate, then. I would prefer METHYL folate. Folic acid fills the folate receptors so that the folate that our body needs can’t get in. I wonder what Lidtke’s reason is for using this? It would be nice to see them change this.
Donna
If you have concerns with the Tryptophan Complete I encourage you to look at the 500mg Tryptophan or Tryptophan chewable.
In part 2 of our interview Ron explains why they chose not to use methylfolate. It was due to feedback from customers: “But when I’m hearing people say they have negative side effects we’re not going to use it [methylfolate]. It’s still a folic acid that is produced by the lemon but if you separate it out it’s still folic acid. But we haven’t heard of any negative side effects from that and so that seems like kind of the best happy medium that we’ve come up with so far. In our conscience we can feel that people are getting something that’s safe and is natural as we can get it.”
I have clients who can’t tolerate methylfolate and many who do very well on methylfolate so it’s a valid concern.
But as you heard in our interview Lidtke is very open to feedback so thanks for sharing your thoughts. Who knows, maybe they’ll come out with a Tryptophan Complete with methylfolate too if there is enough of a need.
Trudy, thank you for clarifying! I am still working my way thru part 1 and haven’t listened to part 2 yet. I apologize for “speaking” too soon. I rescind my above comment! You can delete it if possible. I don’t know how to do that.
Donna
Not a problem. We can delete it but it’s a valid question that others will likely have so if you’re ok lets leave it. And look at the super clarification we got from Lidtke re it being sourced from lemon peel.
Enjoy the rest of the interview
Trudy, okay, we can leave the comment. 😉
🙂 super and thanks for questioning!
Lisa
As I said to Donna if you have concerns with the Tryptophan Complete I encourage you to look at the 500mg Tryptophan or Tryptophan chewable.
In part 2 of our interview Ron explains why they chose not to use methylfolate. It was due to feedback from customers: “But when I’m hearing people say they have negative side effects we’re not going to use it [methylfolate]. It’s still a folic acid that is produced by the lemon but if you separate it out it’s still folic acid. But we haven’t heard of any negative side effects from that and so that seems like kind of the best happy medium that we’ve come up with so far. In our conscience we can feel that people are getting something that’s safe and is natural as we can get it.”
I have clients who can’t tolerate methylfolate and many who do very well on methylfolate so it’s a valid concern.
But as you heard in our interview Lidtke is very open to feedback so thanks for sharing your thoughts. Who knows, maybe they’ll come out with a Tryptophan Complete with methylfolate too if there is enough of a need.
I’m going to ask Ron to come and comment too
Lisa
Making sure you saw the comments from Lidtke …”Lidtke now only uses natural, organic lemon-peel extract as a source of folate. Some labels online still have obsolete information, including bottles found on Amazon, but we are working to correct that. Amazon is not authorized to sell Lidtke products, and we have requested that they not advertise products that may be obsolete. Also, there are no fillers or flow agents in Lidtke L-Tryptophan or Lidtke L-Tryptophan Complete. Thanks!”
And their longer comment on someone else’s post
Hi Trudy,
Would the Tryptophan Complete be safe for someone with MTHFR to use given folic acid (not methylfolate) content? I am compound heterozygous for SNPs at the C677T and A1298C loci.
Also, do you need to buy direct from he Lidtke web site or does Lidtke distribute via Amazon? I noticed the L tryptophan sold on Amazon has different inactive fillers and contains 120 capsules whereas the L tryptophan sold on the Lidtke site is labelled “TryptoGold”, has 30 capsules, and uses only cellulose as a filler. I have heard of adulteration of supplements sold on Amazon so I thought I’d check.
Do you take L-trp on an empty stomach? What about zinc and other minerals? I have heard this recommendation to prevent competition for absorption with other minerals in food; however, it also makes sense that we would absorb minerals alongside fiber and other cofactors at meals when our digestive secretions are higher.
Thanks for another great presentation!
Lidtke now only uses natural, organic lemon-peel extract as a source of folate. Some labels online still have obsolete information, including bottles found on Amazon, but we are working to correct that. Amazon is not authorized to sell Lidtke products, and we have requested that they not advertise products that may be obsolete. Also, there are no fillers or flow agents in Lidtke L-Tryptophan or Lidtke L-Tryptophan Complete. Thanks!
Thank you Ron and Trudy !
The company Ron mentions is in Japan; not a US co. I assume; used to take it from Now foods; and got buzzing sounds in brain..? wonder what that is. Dealing with tinnitus, ear ringing, minor now.
Thank you much.
Romy
I would only use Lidtke tryptophan. With tinnitus I look at low B12, histamine imbalances and gluten.
This summit has cleared five and half YEARS of multiple health problems with just the fluoroqinolone toxicity talk- at first thrilled-then frightened since neuropathy is worse. However, the talks about Lidtke- the speaker is brilliant; I am familiar with much of the terminology, but it was too much pharmaceutical language and hard to follow.
Linda
So pleased to hear you got answers from the fluoroqinolone toxicity talk – you now have information to move forward and I wish you well on your healing journey. Lisa’s site and resources are wonderful! (sharing her link here too https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/antibiotic-anxiety-fluoroquinolone/)
Yes Ron is brilliant and it was a lot of biochemistry which is why we offer transcripts 🙂
Hi Trudy,
Am also very curious about Ali’s question, re MTHFR. I have the same SNP variation with high histamine levels. The Lidtke tryptophan products sound like a great combination, so is Ron saying in his reply that it is ok?… And would there be any histamine content?
Thanks, so much valuable info on yr summit, especially after being lost in the conventional medicine route for many years.
Robyn
Making sure you saw the comments from Lidtke ”Lidtke now only uses natural, organic lemon-peel extract as a source of folate. Some labels online still have obsolete information”
If you have concerns with the Tryptophan Complete I encourage you to look at the 500mg Tryptophan or Tryptophan chewable.
I’m afraid I don’t know about issues with someone with high histamine (is this based on a whole blood histamine test)
Glad you’re enjoying the summit!
Excellent interview Trudy & Ron! I don’t even need Tryptophan, but listened to this interview because I take a lot of other supplements and wanted to learn more about safe manufacturing processes.
Appreciate that you are bringing in some unique guests who are not on the usual summit circuit, Trudy.
And thank you for taking the time to share your years of experience and knowledge with us, Ron! And for having high quality standards. (Please consider making other natural supplements like a multi-mineral if you do not already.)
Elle
Wonderful! that’s why I invited Ron – and yes he is unique!
Hello Trudy,
I also wanted to clarify the same question as Ali and Robyn….
Is it ok for someone who has MTHFR/ methylation issues to use the
L-Tryptophan Complete product?
Margaret
Making sure you saw the comments from Lidtke ”Lidtke now only uses natural, organic lemon-peel extract as a source of folate. Some labels online still have obsolete information”
If you have concerns with the Tryptophan Complete I encourage you to look at the 500mg Tryptophan or Tryptophan chewable.
I am someone who is getting many, but not all of the cofactors in the Complete version through other supplements. My question regards the timing of the dosing. Do these nutritional cofactors just need to be readily present in the body in varying amounts day to day for the tryptophan to opt for the new pathway? Or, is it necessarily or best to take these cofactors directly at the same time as the tryptophan is taken? Does the timing have any greater or lesser effect as long as most cofactors are consumed on a daily or weekly basis?
Laurie
I have not found the timing of the co-factors to be an issue with my clients using the 500mg tryptophan
Gained so much more info about tryptophan and plan to try lidtke products however would like more assurance on the tryptophan complete re the folic acid as I have an MTHFR snp. Also happy to hear about tryptophan chewable and RAD as we have a child w it. Tks again Trudy for ALL of this wonderful info!
Debbi
Glad you’re enjoying it. Please see the comments from Ron about the folate and lemon peel. If you have any concerns I’d use the 500mg tryptophan. The chewable is great for kids.
I would do the amino acid questionnaire https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-mood-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/ and a trial of each applicable amino separately https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/how-to-do-an-amino-acid-trial-for-anxiety/
Also do listen in to Julie’s interview – very applicable even if it’s not an autism diagnosis https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/addressing-anxiety-autism/. Her expertise is special diets.
Thank you to both Trudy and Ron for this amazing wealth of information. I am trying to figure out how best to address my own anxiety issues and those of my 8 y.o. daughter and even our dog. The L-Tryptophan options are compelling. Can you explain how someone figures out the right dosage? If I understood correctly, you recommend starting with the chewable as it is lower in dose, then how does one titrate up? Also, how would you recommend choosing between the T 500 vs. the T Complete?
Thanks a million!
Caitlin
Caitlin
This is how I do it with my clients – do the amino acid questionnaire https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-mood-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/ and a trial of each applicable amino acids one at a time https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/how-to-do-an-amino-acid-trial-for-anxiety/
I use chewables for kids and for sensitive adults. Otherwise I use the 500mg tryptophan. You can read more about 500mmg vs Complete https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/tryptophan-500mg-or-tryptophan-complete-lidtke/ (this is stands as I don’t have much feedback on the Complete yet)
Hi Caitlin,
L-Tryptophan is a natural and safe way to calm stress and help your traveling buddy feel secure without harmful side effects.
Science has uncovered how your pet’s brain and nervous system respond to the correct nutrients. Now Lidtke has created an all-natural tasty chewable, using the very highest-quality ingredients, so your furry family members can enjoy traveling, too!
Feel free to learn more about the Lidtke pet products here: http://store.lidtke.com/collections/veterinary
Thanks Heather – I missed the question about Caitlin’s dog (sorry Caitlin)
Other options: gluten-free diet, Anxitane (theanine) and the thundershirt http://www.thundershirt.com/ More info in my closing which will be ready in a few hours
In the second interview Ron Sturtz mentioned acetylcholine and another acetyl chemical but unfortunately I could not hear what he said ? I am interested in the effects Choline as its present in large levels in ginseng. I have been trialling high levels of ginseng for cognitive functionality.
Also in the second interview I could not get the name and spelling of the second serotonin path the “crimeanian pathway” ?
Think I have found it “KYNURAMINE PATHWAY” in a paper it seems to be the breakdown of melatonin.
Aaron
I think you’re looking for kynurenine and acetyl-CoA
I’m posting this here on behalf of someone who emailed us this question and we haven’t been able to respond due to invalid address:
“I have been following you for a couple of years and listened to the two part interview on your summit featuring the Lidtke president on Tryptophan. I was pretty frustrated and felt I didn’t get any practical take always from it. I wanted to know dosages, supplements that might interfere with it, whether or not you can build up an immunity to it, etc. I felt like the bulk of the interview was about manufacturing and other things that were unclear & never explained. Just wanted you to know. I was hopeful and excited to get answers, but left feeling frustrated.”
My answer: we appreciate all feedback and we’re sorry you were frustrated. The goal was to cover the history and the importance of quality, plus how to make tryptophan more effective by using the co-factors.
We have covered the practical aspects of boosting serotonin in many interviews on prior summits and even went into it further with Dr Bongiorno’s interview this season. I encourage you to go back and listen to those interviews.
Here are some of those links:
https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/serotonin-anxiety-tryptophan-5-htp-medication-tapering/ (season 4)
https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxiety-summit-serotonin-anxiety-digestion-hormones/ (season 3)
https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxiety-summit-pyroluria-amino-acids-acids-troubleshooting/ (season 3)
https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxiety-summit-targeted-individual-amino-acids-eliminating-anxiety-practical-applications/ (season 2)
https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxiety-summit-eliminating-anxiety-amino-acid-therapy-and-adrenal-balancing/ (season 1)
My goal each season is to bring new valuable information and speakers and unfortunately not every talk will appeal to everyone
My GABA talk this year will be very practical so do tune in to that one
Hello,
I am sorry that you got frustrated with the interview and did not get the information you were looking for. Lidtke is the manufacturer of L-Tryptophan and we cannot recommend how much you can take, but I can tell you from personal experience, I started taking one capsule about 45 minutes before bedtime with fruit juice. For some reason taking it with a carbohydrate seemed to make it work better. I personally only needed the one capsule but I know many other people that take 2-3 capsules. During the day, when I felt anxiety coming on, I would take 1 capsule and about 15 minutes later, my anxiousness would be gone. You do not want to take it with any protein or any other supplements at the same time. With L-Tryptophan being the most deficient amino acid in the diet, it would compete with the others and lose… therefore, you would not get the full benefit.
I hope this answer helps a little bit and I will be sure that we talk about this more in future interviews! We really enjoyed being a guest and hope we will be invited again!
Wonderful interview Trudy and I also loved hearing about the history of #lovelidtke… 😉
Just to be sure, if one doesn’t have any of the MTHFR SNP’s, is it absolutely fine to consume folic acid?
Many thanks.
Drew
Glad you enjoyed it – would love you to share your 500mg and Tryptophan Complete story (or stories here)
I would not use folic acid for anyone, MTHFR SNP or not. They use folate from lemon peel and the labels are out of date
Here is the link to the correct label that has the lemon peel http://store.lidtke.com/products/l-tryptophan-complete-60-capsules
Thanks for the info Trudy. So, if a food such as a super greens powder or a nutritional yeast has folic acid in it, you would avoid those foods and all others with folic acid even if one doesn’t have the MTHFR SNP’s?
I am still ‘testing’ both the #lovelidtke Tryptophans and haven’t come to any conclusions with them yet as I have such diverse experiences with them. Each day renders differing results but once I am done and come to a final conclusion I will share it here… Hope that’s ok.
Of course…come back and share when you are ready!
I just wouldn’t use anything with added folic acid
Hello!
I’m just listening to Part 1 of your interview with Ron Sturtz and, wow, what a lovely soul.
For many years I was under the impression from different reports that the company overseas who had a “bad batch” of tryptophan had done it on purpose in order to pave the way for more and more prescriptions drugs to be sold for mental health so big money could be made in that field and that company/manufacturer would get a kickback. I will tell you that I have also heard the same from some doctors. Also, at one point in my “prescription drug nighmare journey”, I was taken off the psych meds that were not helping and prescribed tryptophan for a while briefly back when this happened and had to come off of it after people were dying from the “bad batch”. Upon reflection, I’m kind of a bit peeved about it a little right now because at that time I had to go back on psych meds. Now, I’m back on tryptophan, for which I am very grateful, but so many years of suffering on the other junk. I know I need to focus on all the good that is going on in my life right now. However, I also know I’m human and, dang, I’m ticked right now.
In any case, from listening to Mr. Sturtz, he has a very detailed explanation of what apparently actually happened. If what he says is the truth, I wish that more would be like him and report the exact truth. That company received a bad name after what happened and it seems that the truth of the whole matter was not widely reported. As well, the pulling off the shelves of something that was helping many of us at the time created a fear of supplements which some are still very much concerned about.
Thanks for a great summit.
Off to process the “ticked off” part and refocus on the good.
Peace!
I really enjoyed your two part interview with Ron Sturtz. Thank you for the second hour! According to my NutrEval test 2013 I was well out of range high in Quinolinic Acid so I stopped taking tryptophan. I recently bought Tryptophan Complete and now feel reassured to try it. I do have a biochemistry background and understood the rational for including the various ingredients. If you should set up a research study, I would be eager to participate. I subscribe to many webinars and find you a most informative interviewer.
Linda
Thanks for sharing and I’d love to include you in a future study. I’ll each out in a week or so
I’m curious how you felt when your quinolinic acid was high? and if you retested it?
I heard you say that you don’t use urine metabolites for diagnosis, but that is the data I have via NutrEval from Genova. I believe I was taking tryptophan before the 2013 test; I had taken Tryptophan Complete for about a week prior to the 2016 test. Each test required going off all supplements for four days prior to blood draw. I am trying to decide whether the new results are an improvement..complicated! I had a picture of these results to post but I can’t seem to do that. In 2013 quinolenic acid was high (9.9) and kenurenic acid was in green zone (2.7) for a low ratio k/q of 0.27. In 2016 both quinolenic acid (8.8) AND kenurenic acid (9.0) were high, but the ratio was better than earlier (0.27 vs 1.02.) I had not been on Complete very long, so am not sure what happened or how to interpret. I am studying metabolic pathways. I was more anxious in 2013 but have addressed that on many fronts.
Again, what a really awesome interview. I’m getting ready to listen to the second part.
I love Lidtke’s Tryptophan. I currently take the capsules but plan on getting the powder when I’m done with the capsules. Like many others, I’ve found it works best for me by opening up the capsules and taking 1/8 of a teaspoon a few times throughout the day. I sometimes take a slice of apple with it, but not because of the taste of the tryptophan, but because apparently the tryptophan needs something like that to be absorbed. (Honestly, I don’t notice the difference when I sometimes forget to take a slice of apple. I still seem to get excellent benefits.)
I’ve gotten used to the bitter taste of the tryptophan and would actually prefer for myself that it not have any sweetners or flavors in it. That’s why I didn’t get the maple flavored chewable.
Take care!
Thanks for sharing – so glad you enjoy the talk and that the tryptophan works so well. Good to know re apple and no apple – I have heard that from many clients. And good to know re the taste not being a bother
You’re welcome!
I really enjoyed your interview with Ron. He’s such a wealth of information. I learned so much. Also, he sounds like a very ethical man and business owner. I will certainly be telling more people about his company and their supplements.
Take care!
On a lighter note would live to know why Ron called the company Lidtke? 😉
Hi Drew,
Lidtke was named after Ron’s great grandparents last name.
Take Care!
Thanks for that information Heather, what a lovely gesture and sentiment… 🙂
Lidtke would like to announce that we will be giving all of Trudy’s followers a continuing discount on all of our products at http://store.lidtke.com/products Just type “anxiety” in the coupon code area.
We appreciate you all!
Hi Trudy
Erna here from South -Africa. I’ve struggled with anxiety since I was a kid. I’ve been on anti depressants for the past 23 years. ( I must admit that I’ve got a ” weak” stomach…. if there’s a stomach bug…. I WILL get it!!! I’ve always had a struggle with my gut….. maybe that’s why I had anxiety from childhood ) Every time I tried to get off it, I went into a total relapse ( loosing up to 17 kg’s in less than 2 months…… most horrible way to loose weight )
I’ve decided once more to try again going off . It did not go well – when everything was out of my system, I was so agitated- it felt like I had PMS the whole time – it felt that I had this extreme anger in me…… just to feel totally guilty and depressed afterwards!- so I googled ” best natural anti-depressants”…… which led me down the L- Tryptophan road.
I’ve asked the pharmacist, what brand of l- tryptophan they’re selling….. the answer…. l-tryptophan is all the same everywhere .
Here in South Africa, we can only get it on prescription from a medical doctor – so I’m ordering it from a compounding company here . But how do I know it’s quality??? How can I be sure? Its definitely helping me, BUT it makes me nauseous, especially taking it on an empty stomach. I’m also suffering from vestibular migraines and this does not help me in that regard .
Please help!
Regards
Erna Bruwer
Erna
Good to hear it’s helping you! I’ve heard some good feedback on the quality of prescription tryptophan in South Africa. Can you find out who the supplier is? And may I ask which compounding company is making it?
Nausea is more common with 5-HTP but typically goes away after a few days, The tryptophan often actually helps with migraines.
I actually prefer my clients to be nutritionally sound before tapering – more info here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/taper-from-antidepressant-tryptophan-amino-acids/
Hi Trudy
Thanks for your speedy reply. Herewith, please find an insert of the email I have copied & paste from the compounding company:
Jivesh Ramlal
Jul 13 (1 day ago)
to me
Dear Erna
We procure our tryptophan from a SA supplier (Marsing) who imports from their accredited manufacturer.
The raw material conforms to a USP specification – a key criteria that we confirm in conjunction with the CoA.
Thanks.
Kind regards,
Jivesh Ramlal
I am actually JUST getting by for the moment on L-Tryptophan ( like I’ve said before, previously it would have been a full blown anxiety for months), but I have NO joy whatsoever. I’ve thought bout what you said about the diet, and I’m very adamant to change my lifestyle completely regarding food. I was walking 7 km a day for at least 4 to 5 days a week, unfortunately that’s also not possible for me , as it looks as if i am due for a back operation. I really feel like i am in a catch 22 situation at the moment as walking in our beautifull estate between wild animals really boosted my serotonin levels
From your perspective, Would you then suggest that I go BACK on the SSRI’s (I’ve been off now for almost 3 months), together with the l-tryptophan and taper off the SSRI’s gradually (or at least untill my diet is then on track like you stated). I’m clearly not making it at the moment and I do not want to fall into anxiety – it only took one thing in the past to make my head spin out of controll and I do not want to land in THAT again! I am a born again christian, but that is exactly when my crazy thoughts ( or the devil) is telling me that I am lost forever Then I go into a vicious cycle of self condemnation etc! That is also when my obsessive compulsive behaviour will start ….. thoughts about doing the unforgivable sin…..been there…..do NOT want to go there again.
On another note, the reason why I was looking at the Lidtke product, was because of the L-tryptophan COMPLETE. The problem is that financially it is not viable to order online and pay the shipping fees, it makes it an extremely costly exercise – So I want to ask you is there any supplements that I can take with my L-Tryptophan that can “simulate” the L-Tryptophan Complete before I go with the SSRI’s option, just to see if maybe that will help more that just the plain L-Tryptophan that I am using at the moment.
if you suggest hat I shoud go back on the SSRI’s, them I am going to make an appointment with a psychiatrist to hear his side of what you have suggested regarding taking l-tryptophan and SSIR’s 6 hours apart to avoid serotonin syndrome.
Sorry for any spelling “mistakes” – our spelling differs from USA’s .
Thanks once again for your help, I really appreciate it!
regards
Erna Bruwer
Erna
Thanks for the information about tryptophan – I’m not familiar with this company. And I’m afraid I really can’t consult via the blog but can share the majority of my clients are taking a copper free multi, 100-200mg of vitamin B6 and 30mg zinc and often a B complex too. I have had feedback from a number of people who have quit an SSRI and benzo too quickly and decided to go back on the medication and do a slow taper with nutritional support. As I mentioned I like my clients to be nutritionally stable before starting to taper.
On a separate note when I hear lack of joy I think low endorphins. I use DPA with my clients in USA but some people do well on DLPA. Exercise, hugs, massage and acupuncture also boosts endorphins.
Hi Trudy
Thanks for your reply. Another question, is it safe to use PAX tablets with l-tryptophan? Pax together with SSRI’s always helped in the past with extreme anxiety…… But I was very cautious with the use of Pax ( I treated it as a ” sparewheel”)
Regards
Erna Bruwer
I have no idea what PAX tablets are so cannot comment
Hi Trudy
INDICATIONS CONTRA-INDICATIONS DOSAGE SIDE-EFFECTS PREGNANCY OVERDOSE IDENTIFICATION PATIENT INFORMATION
Logo PAX®-2 TABLET
PAX®-5 TABLET
PAX®-10 TABLET
SCHEDULING STATUS:
S5
PROPRIETARY NAME
(and dosage form):
PAX®-2 TABLET
PAX®-5 TABLET
PAX®-10 TABLET
COMPOSITION:
Each tablet contains 2 mg (5 mg, 10 mg) Diazepam.
PHARMACOLOGICAL CLASSIFICATION:
A 2.6 Tranquillisers.
PHARMACOLOGICAL ACTION:
It has been found that the major locus of CNS depressant action of diazepam on spinal reflexes is the brain stem reticular system. After oral administration peak plasma concentrations are reached in 1 to four hours. Drug elimination follows a biphasic pattern, with a rapid phase (half-life = 2 to 3 hours) followed by a slow decay with a half-life of 2 to 8 days. Diazepam is metabolized to active products including oxazepam. One third is excreted as oxazepam and 70% of the metabolites appear in the urine. Metabolites have been found in the urine and in the plasma 14 days after a 10 mg dose. Diazepam is extensively bound to plasma proteins (99%).
INDICATIONS:
Diazepam is used in the treatment of anxiety in neurotic patients and for pre-operative medication. It may be effective in relieving the acute symptoms of the alcohol withdrawal syndrome, but has no specific usefulness in the treatment of psychotic patients.
Diazepam is only indicated when the disorder is severe, disabling or subjecting the individual to extreme stress.
CONTRA-INDICATIONS:
Diazepam is contra-indicated in infants and in patients with known hypersensitivity to diazepam. Pre-existing CNS depression or coma is normally a contra-indication. Caution should be observed when giving diazepam to patients with impaired hepatic or renal function. In elderly and debilitated patients and patients with impaired obstructive airways disease large doses may produce syncope. The effects of diazepam may be enhanced by alcohol, barbiturates, narcotics, MAO inhibitors and other depressants of the central nervous system. The response to treatment with oral anticoagulants may be variable in patients taking diazepam.
Avoid in porphyria as diazepam is considered unsafe although there is conflicting evidence of porphyrogenicity.
Use of diazepam in the first trimester of pregnancy has been associated with various congenital malformations in the infant and in the last trimester it has been associated with drowsiness, respiratory depression and intoxication in the new born infant. For these reasons diazepam is contra-indicated in pregnancy.
Diazepam is excreted in breast milk and is contra-indicated in nursing mothers because of the side-effects it can cause in the breastfed infant such as drowsiness, slow heartbeat and breathing problems.
WARNING:
This medicine may lead to drowsiness or impaired concentration, which may be aggravated by simultaneous intake of alcohol or other central nervous system depressant agents. Patients should not drive or operate machinery where loss of attention might be hazardous.
KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN
DOSAGE AND DIRECTIONS FOR USE:
The usual dose for mild anxiety states in ambulant patients is 2 mg thrice daily and in severe anxiety and other psychiatric disorders 15 mg to 30 mg daily in divided doses.
For sleep disturbances 5 mg to 30 mg should be given in the evening. Elderly and debilitated patients with obstructive airways disease should be given one-half the usual adult dose.
Treatment should be as short as possible. The patient should be reassessed regularly and the need for continued treatment should be evaluated, especially in case the patient is symptom free. The overall duration of treatment generally should not be more than 8 –12 weeks, including a tapering off process.
In certain cases extension beyond the maximum treatment period may be necessary; if so, it should not take place without re-evaluation of the patients status.
SIDE-EFFECTS AND SPECIAL PRECAUTIONS:
The side-effects most frequently encountered with diazepam are drowsiness, oversedation, dizziness, light-headedness; mental depression, fatigue, apathy, constipation, irritability. Less frequently gastro-intestinal disturbances such as diarrhoea, indigestion, changes in libido, tremor, visual disturbances such as blurred vision, urinary retention or incontinence, slurred speech or dysarthria, changes in salivation, depression of mood and affect, disorientation or confusion, lethargy and ataxia, jaundice and occasional blood disorders have been reported. The benzodiazepines can also cause amnesia. Paradoxical reactions such as acute hyperexcitable states with rage and hostility may occur. If these occur, the medicine should be discontinued.
Respiratory depression and hypotension are rare or absent at usual doses but may occasionally occur with high dosage. Large doses may produce syncope. Other side-effects occasionally reported are skin rashes, headaches, nausea and menstrual irregularities. Hepatic dysfunction has occasionally been reported. When diazepam is administered in obstetrics during labour, special care should be taken, since it may cause central respiratory depression and both hypothermia and hypotonia in the infant. It may also increase the foetal heart-rate.
Drowsiness is more common in elderly and debilitated patients and in patients receiving high doses. In severely disturbed patients treatment with diazepam may result in paradoxical reactions provoking excitement instead of sedation. If these occur, the medicine should be discontinued. There is a risk of dependence of the barbiturate – alcohol type and withdrawal reactions including convulsions have been observed in patients receiving large doses for prolonged periods when the drug was stopped abruptly.
Special Precautions:
Particular caution should be exercised with:
1. The elderly and debilitated patient – who are at particular risk of oversedation, respiratory depression and ataxia. (The initial oral dosage should be reduced in these patients).
2. Patients with pulmonary disease and limited pulmonary reserve.
3. Patients suffering from impairment of renal, hepatic or respiratory function.
4. Patients suffering from anxiety accompanied by an underlying depressive disorder.
5. Patients receiving barbiturates or other central nervous system depressants. There is an additive risk of central nervous system depression when these medicines are taken together.
6. Patients should be cautioned regarding the additive effect of alcohol.
7. Patients with myasthenia gravis on account of the pre-existing muscle weakness.
8. Patients with organic brain changes particularly arteriosclerosis.
Given during labour it crosses the placenta and may cause the floppy-infant syndrome characterised by central respiratory depression, hypothermia and poor sucking. Diazepam is not recommended for the primary treatment of psychotic illness. Diazepam should not be used alone to treat depression or anxiety with depression (suicide may be precipitated in such patients). Diazepam should be used with extreme caution in patients with history of alcohol or drug abuse.
Dependence
There is a potential for abuse and the development of physical and psychic dependence, especially with prolonged use and high doses. The risk of dependence is also greater in patients with a history of alcohol or drug abuse. Once physical dependence has developed, abrupt termination of treatment will be accompanied by withdrawal symptoms. These may consist of headaches, muscle pain, extreme anxiety, tension, restlessness, confusion and irritability.
In severe cases the following symptoms may occur: derealisation, depersonalisation, hyperacusis, numbness and tingling of extremities, hypersensitivity to light, noise and physical contact, hallucinations or epileptic seizures.
Rebound effects
A transient syndrome whereby the symptoms that led to treatment with diazepam recur in an enhanced form may occur on withdrawal of treatment. It may be accompanied by other reactions including mood changes, anxiety and restlessness. Since the risk of withdrawal phenomena/rebound phenomena is greater after abrupt discontinuation of treatment it is recommended that the dosage is decreased gradually.
Duration of treatment
The duration of treatment should be as short as possible (see Dosage), but should not exceed eight to twelve weeks in case of anxiety, including tapering off process. Extension beyond this period should not take place without re-evaluation of the situation. It may be useful to inform the patient when treatment is started that it will be of limited duration and to explain precisely how the dosage will be progressively decreased. Moreover it is important that the patient should be aware of the possibility of rebound phenomena, thereby minimising anxiety over such symptoms, should they occur while the product is being discontinued.
INTERACTIONS WITH OTHER MEDICINES:
Refer to contra-indications.
KNOWN SYMPTOMS OF OVERDOSAGE AND PARTICULARS OF ITS TREATMENT:
The most prominent symptom of overdosage is sedation which usually follows symptoms of dizziness, fatigue, apathy or irritability. Large doses may produce syncope.
Manifestations of overdosage include somnolence, confusion, coma, respiratory and cardiovascular depression and hypotension.
The stomach should be emptied by aspiration and lavage, There is no specific treatment and recovery usually follows symptomatic and supportive therapy, with particular attention being paid to the maintenance of cardiovascular, respiratory and renal functions, and to the maintenance of electrolyte balance.
IDENTIFICATION:
2 MG: Pink, flat bevelled edge tablet, bisected and engraved “D1 ” on the one side and with a Lennon logo (mortar and pestle) on the other side.
5 mg: Pale orange bisected tablets, engraved with the Lennon logo (mortar and pestle).
10 mg: Blue bisected tablets, engraved with the Lennon logo (mortar and pestle).
PRESENTATION:
2 MG: Securitainers of 30’s and 500’s.
5 mg: Blister packs of 30’s and securitainers of 500’s.
10 mg: Blister packs of 30’s and securitainers of 500’s.
STORAGE INSTRUCTIONS:
Store below 25°C, in well-closed containers.
Protect from light.
KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN.
REGISTRATION NUMBERS:
2 MG: J/2.6/257
5 mg: J/2.6/267
10 mg: J/2.6/250
NAME AND BUSINESS ADDRESS OF THE APPLICANT:
Pharmacare Limited
7 Fairclough Road
PORT ELIZABETH
6001
DATE OF PUBLICATION OF THIS PACKAGE INSERT:
20 April 1977
D190
A & S PRINTERS
Updated on this site: May 2000
Current: September 2004
Source: Community Pharmacy
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