ruminations

Collagen causes anxiety and sleep problems for some people. I would never have connected the dots but apparently I am one of those people.

March 1, 2024 By Trudy Scott 13 Comments

Thank you for solving my sleeping problem! I would never have connected the dots regarding collagen causing anxiety and sleep problems for some people, but apparently I am one of those people.

Although I would fall asleep instantly at bedtime, I would wake up 3 or 4 hours later and while my body was tired, my mind was wide awake and I was unable to go back to sleep for at least 2 or 3 hours. I would think about all the things I needed to do and the challenges I was having. These things would not bother me as much in the day. No matter what I tried – like praying and listening to calming music, I could not shut off my anxious thoughts.

Then it occurred to me that when I go out of town to visit my family, I sleep better. After hearing Trudy’s collagen presentation on the Osteoporosis Summit, I connected the dots! For the last 6 months, I have been putting about 10 grams of Vital Protein collagen in my coffee each morning. I don’t take the collagen with me when I travel. So I stopped using it and lo and behold, I am sleeping the best sleep I have slept in a long time! I even look forward to going to sleep.

So I thank you Trudy from the bottom of my heart for enlightening me. And Margie, I thank you for the wonderful Summit you put together with so much great information. I would still be sleep deprived if it wasn’t for you both!

I was so pleased to receive this lovely thank you email from Merrilyn (sent to me and summit host Margie Bissinger) and said how happy I am for her. I asked if I could share her feedback as a new blog so we can enlighten others who may have similar issues and because it’s an opportunity to share some of sleep/collagen research that supports a possible mechanism. She kindly said yes and answered my questions:

How long had you been using collagen and how long after starting it did the sleep issues start?
And how quickly after stopping the collagen did your sleep improve?
Did you consider using tryptophan or 5-HTP so you could continue to use the collagen? And are you prone to low serotonin?

Read on for some background on the serotonin-lowering effects for some folks who consume collagen, Merrilyn’s responses to my questions, my insights, some of the research, and the tryptophan and 5-HTP products I recommend.

The original collagen/gelatin serotonin-lowering blog/research from 2017

I first addressed this potential cause for anxiety, mood and sleep issues in a blog in 2017 – Collagen and gelatin lower serotonin: does this increase your anxiety and depression?

Margie invited me to share this information and some of the research with those who are using it or planning to use it for osteoporosis. I’m so glad I accepted because clearly there are still folks who are not aware of the potential serotonin-lowering effects of collagen. And I’m sharing Merrilyn’s results via this new blog in case it’s also new to you.

Briefly, collagen and gelatin are used in tryptophan-depletion studies to lower serotonin levels. It does this because neither collagen or gelatin contain tryptophan. Some people seem to be adversely impacted by acute tryptophan depletion/ATD caused by collagen or gelatin consumption while others are not.

If this is all new to you, I encourage you to read the original blog and search for “collagen” to find other information on this topic on my site.

How long had you been using collagen and how long after starting it did the sleep issues start?

I asked how long she’d been using collagen and how long after starting it did she notice problems with her sleep. This wasn’t clear to her and many folks like Marrilyn unfortunately don’t connect the dots right away.

I started Vital Proteins collagen on July 1, 2023. I did mark that down because as I add supplements to my diet, I try to make notes and only do one at a time in case they cause a problem. I did note that I was not consistent with taking it daily and I was only taking 5 to 10 grams daily ( in my cup of coffee!).

I have always had a bit of a problem with waking up at night, but normally go right back to sleep. I can’t remember exactly when the sleeping problems worsened and I never connected them to collagen.

Seems like over time, the sleeping and waking up with ruminating thoughts was getting worse. I had started trying Tylenol PM or Advil PM, only taking 1/2 of one with one plain Tylenol or Advil to help me sleep and relieve any muscle tension from exercise. That did not always help. Taking a whole PM was better, but I felt groggy the next day. I don’t need any now that I have stopped the collagen.

How quickly after stopping the collagen did your sleep improve?

When the cause of waking in the night is due to low serotonin, it’s common to notice improvements very quickly after stopping collagen. This was the case with Merrilyn:

I would say my sleep improved immediately after stopping it. I realized that on the days I was out of town and didn’t take the collagen, I slept better. … but I attributed it to the fact that it is cooler there and my 6 year old grandson wears me out by the evening. I do not take the collagen with me and I had not connected this to the sleep pattern.

I returned home after one trip and started the collagen that next morning and the sleepless nights started again. I can’t remember when I listened to your talk, but I am guessing around January 18th, because I noted that I stopped after that day and according to my Fitbit and my memory, I slept great the night of January 19th and other than one night, I have slept well since.

I do want to commend Merrilyn for keeping a log of new supplements and sleep patterns. It’s something I recommend for all my clients.

Did you consider using tryptophan or 5-HTP so you could continue to use the collagen and are you prone to low serotonin?

I also asked if she considered using tryptophan or 5-HTP (some folks do better on one vs the other) so she could continue to use the collagen – she had not considered this. And I wanted to know if she has been prone to low serotonin or suspects low serotonin currently.

I do believe I am prone to low serotonin based on the little I have read in your book. I have thought about using tryptophan with the collagen and might later. For now, I just want to enjoy sleeping and focus on improving my diet.

I also have evenings when I crave sugar. I can do without it during the day, but evenings are worse. Something else to work on.

She’s referring to the low serotonin symptoms questionnaire in the amino acid chapter of my book, The Antianxiety Food Solution. It’s also on the blog here.

A big clue is the insomnia and anxiety caused by consumption of collagen, and also the evening cravings. There are cravings with all the neurotransmitter imbalances, with afternoon/evening cravings common with low serotonin.

It is possible Merrilyn’s anxiety and insomnia effects are for reasons other than low serotonin: glutamate, oxalate, arginine or a histamine reaction are all possible with collagen intake). Doing a trial of tryptophan or 5-HTP while consuming collagen would confirm a serotonin connection.

Osteoporosis, allergies, serotonin and coffee

Merrilyn also shared that she is in her early 70s and besides osteoporosis and allergies, is generally healthy and takes no prescription drugs. Interestingly, research finds there may be a role for 5-HTP (and presumably tryptophan) for allergies and asthma, so this may be another clue for her.

Of course, reducing her cravings – tryptophan and/or 5-HTP make it easy – will also improve her nutrient status of zinc, magnesium, iron, vitamin B6 and other B vitamins etc. all of which are key when it comes to osteoporosis.

Quitting coffee altogether will likely prevent any waking in the night – yes, even just one cup a day can make a difference – and also help improve the status of many of these nutrients. This is often the least favorite change my clients make but Merrilyn will read about all this in the caffeine chapter in my book and may find tyrosine helps her do so.

Research: Daytime tryptophan depletion altered night-time sleep

A paper published in 2002, Mid-morning tryptophan depletion delays REM sleep onset in healthy subjects, reports the following:

Rapid daytime tryptophan depletion in healthy volunteers significantly decreased plasma tryptophan levels during the day and the evening, followed by alterations in the characteristics of night-time sleep, including increased sleep fragmentation, REM sleep latency, and REM density during first sleep episode.

In this randomized double-blind cross-over study, participants received “a tryptophan-free mixture of amino acids at 10:30 am…. resulting in a 77% decrease and 41% decrease of serum tryptophan at 3:30 pm. and 9:30 pm.” Keep in mind that collagen is a blend of certain amino acids and is tryptophan-free.

The authors discuss the fact that serotonin is involved in sleep regulation but interestingly the mood of study participants was not affected.

Even more interesting is another study that found collagen used before bedtime improved sleep and cognitive function in physically active males. It’s possible it’s doing this because it is lowering serotonin that is too high.

Tryptophan and 5-HTP product options

Products I recommend include Lidtke 500 mg Tryptophan, and Pure Encapsulations 50 mg 5-HTP. You can purchase these from my online store (Fullscript – only available to US customers – use this link to set up an account).

If you’re not in the US, Doctor’s Best L-Tryptophan 500mg and Source Naturals 50 mg 5-HTP are products I recommend on iherb (use this link to save 5%).

Additional resources when you are new to using tryptophan or 5-HTP and other amino acids as supplements

We use the symptoms questionnaire to figure out if low serotonin or other neurotransmitter imbalances may be an issue for you.

If you suspect low levels of any of the neurotransmitters and do not yet have my book, The Antianxiety Food Solution – How the Foods You Eat Can Help You Calm Your Anxious Mind, Improve Your Mood, and End Cravings, I highly recommend getting it and reading it before jumping in and using amino acids on your own so you are knowledgeable. And be sure to share it with the practitioner/health team you or your loved one is working with.

There is an entire chapter on the amino acids and they are discussed throughout the book in the sections on gut health, gluten, blood sugar control (this is covered in an entire chapter too), sugar cravings, anxiety and mood issues. The importance of quality animal protein and healthy fats is also covered.

The book doesn’t include product names (per the publisher’s request) so this blog, The Antianxiety Food Solution Amino Acid and Pyroluria Supplements, lists the amino acids that I use with my individual clients and those in my group programs.

If, after reading this blog and my book, you don’t feel comfortable figuring things out on your own (i.e. doing the symptoms questionnaire and respective amino acids trials), a good place to get help is the GABA QuickStart Program (if you have low GABA symptoms too). This is a paid online/virtual group program where you get my guidance and community support.

If you are a practitioner, join us in The Balancing Neurotransmitters: the Fundamentals program. This is also a paid online/virtual program with an opportunity to interact with me and other practitioners who are also using the amino acids.

Have you made the connection between your collagen consumption and anxiety/insomnia (or other low serotonin symptoms)?

Did you end up simply stopping collagen or have you successfully used it with tryptophan or 5-HTP?

If you’re a practitioner do you see this with your clients/patients who are prone to low serotonin?

And please let me know if it’s helpful that I’m now including product recommendations and where to get them?

Feel free to share and ask your questions below.

Using tryptophan and GABA amino acid supplements together for anxiety, sleep, ruminations and TMJ: questions and answers

February 23, 2024 By Trudy Scott 15 Comments

I am taking 250 mg tryptophan, 100-200 mg GABA. Tryptophan is helping with rumination. GABA is helping with feeling less tension in the body. I am also taking 500mg DPA. DLPA used to help me but I thought it was too stimulating so I’m trying DPA now. I couldn’t feel much when taking it on its own.

But the combination of tryptophan, DPA & GABA is generally helping me to feel less wound up. I still struggle with rumination and I have a really difficult time making decisions. I get really overwhelmed when I have a lot of decisions to make – it sends me in a tailspin and leads to more rumination. I’m not sure which amino acid would be good for that?

I generally have trouble relaxing and feeling calm and I feel the tension in my body. I am not sure if I should try increasing the dosage of one of the above?

I am wondering, is it important to take l-tyrosine to balance the tryptophan since tryptophan can lower dopamine over time? Or is the DPA enough since it’s a precursor to tyrosine?

I get many questions like this about using both tryptophan and GABA amino acid supplements together for easing anxiety and today I’m sharing some of these questions and my answers. This will also give you the opportunity to ask questions you may have related to using both these amino acids together. You’ll also read many success stories like the above and how to tweak the amino acids for optimal results.

Read on for my response to the above question from TT and other questions about using GABA and tryptophan together – how to measure GABA and serotonin levels for using with teens, adding tryptophan for sleep separately from GABA, how to test both for jaw clenching, and the precaution about serotonin syndrome.

My response and feedback for TT – adjustments for even better results

My response and feedback for TT … It’s wonderful that this combination is helping so much. It’s a great start but there are adjustments I’d consider to get even better results. The tryptophan dose is low, with a typical starting dose of 500mg so I’d consider increasing this a few times over a few weeks to see if the ruminations decrease even further. This may also help with the overwhelm and decision making.

Increasing the GABA over a few weeks (after the trial of increased tryptophan) may well improve her ongoing tension and inability to relax. I’d want to make sure she is using GABA sublingually for the best effects.

She asks about the need to take tyrosine to balance the tryptophan but I don’t have clients do this as a rule of thumb and only have clients take tyrosine if they have symptoms of low dopamine. In this instance since TT mentions difficulties with decision-making, a trial of tyrosine may be worth considering, after she has increased tryptophan and increased GABA. More about tyrosine benefits here.

I do want to mention that DPA is not a precursor to dopamine but DLPA does offer some dopamine support. I share more about the differences between DPA and DLPA here.

I want to give my teens GABA and tryptophan – how do I measure GABA and serotonin levels?

I have two teenagers ages 14 and 16 who suffer from anxiety and depression. My daughter has more difficulty with depression and my son with ruminating thoughts . My father had similar issues. We have tried supplements, and medications that help a little.

I want to try giving them GABA and tryptophan, but to make sure that they in fact meet the criteria you describe. Is there a lab test that measures GABA and serotonin levels? Also, how can I figure out the dose and times to give them?

Here is my feedback for Maria …. The best way to determine if someone may have low GABA/serotonin is to look at the low GABA/serotonin symptoms questionnaire (here is that link), rate 1 or 2 symptoms on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being worst, do an initial one-off trial of the respective amino acid and rate the symptoms again right afterwards (in the next 2 to 30 minutes). Based on this we decide if we’ll continue with the amino acid and how much to use.

Dosing is unique to each person’s needs and timing differs for each amino acid – tryptophan is best mid-afternoon and evening and GABA throughout the day and evening if needed too.

I don’t use the urinary neurotransmitter test as it’s not considered an accurate assessment. I blogged about this here.

It’s a comprehensive approach – amino acids AND diet. This mom mentions supplements and medications but nothing about what their diets are like right now – gluten-free, sugar-free, caffeine-free, eating protein at breakfast for blood sugar control, real whole foods, grass-fed red meat, wild fish, fermented foods etc?

I also suggest my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” as a great place to start when you are new to the amino acids and other anxiety nutrition solutions like gluten/sugar/caffeine removal, blood sugar control, gut health, pyroluria etc.

And this blog is a wonderful example and gives hope to moms – Tryptophan for my teenager: she laughs and smiles, her OCD and anxiety has lessened, and she is more goal oriented and focused on school. It’s one of many similar blogs so be sure to use the search feature to find others.

GABA and theanine help my anxiety, if I add tryptophan for sleep should I take it separately?

I have taken Gaba and L-theanine for anxiety for the last few years on and off as recommended by a doctor, it really does help although I still have sleeping problems. I also have a lot of symptoms on your low serotonin list so if I add tryptophan to see if it helps with sleep should I take it with the Gaba or separately?

Here is my response and feedback for Diane … I was glad to hear GABA and theanine are helping with the anxiety. I have many clients with low serotonin and low GABA symptoms take GABA, theanine and tryptophan at bedtime at the same time for improving sleep that is caused by low serotonin.

Diane has already identified that she has a lot of low serotonin symptoms from the questionnaire, so like I shared for Maria above, a trial is worth considering.

We always want to capitalize on what is already working so when GABA/theanine is helping with anxiety and offers some help with sleep we will often increase that before considering a trial of tryptophan.

I’m assuming she is addressing dietary factors too and other root causes that may also affect her sleep – like low blood sugar and high cortisol.

Would GABA or tryptophan help with jaw clenching and how do I test to see if they would help?

Would Gaba or tryptophan help with jaw clenching, not grinding, which I assume is an anxiety thing even when I’m unaware of any anxiety? Since I already use Gaba on and off for anxiety or if I can’t sleep (only taking 200 mg) how would I go about testing tryptophan to see if it would help for clenching?

Here is my feedback for Diane … Jaw clenching/TMJ (temporomandibular joint) issues can be related to both low GABA because of the muscle tension and also when serotonin is low.

In the same way we do a trial with the amino acids for anxiety or low self-esteem (or another symptom like cravings) we would do a trial for the jaw clenching i.e. rate the severity on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being worst, do a trial of tryptophan and then GABA (separately) and rate the symptoms again right afterwards (in the next 2 to 30 minutes). And go from there, increasing each as needed (one at a time) and tracking symptom improvement.

Here is a case as an example: Tryptophan ends TMJ pain, headaches and worry, and improves mood and sleep.

Precaution about serotonin syndrome with tryptophan/5-HTP

There are precautions when using certain amino acids and I always review them with all my clients. If they have been prescribed an SSRI, I have them discuss the use of tryptophan/5-HTP with their prescribing doctor so they can be monitored for serotonin syndrome. With careful monitoring and doctor approval I feel comfortable having my clients use tryptophan/5-HTP 6 hours away from their one and only SSRI.

If they are using more than one SSRI and/or a combination of psychiatric medications, the use of tryptophan/5-HTP is not advised.

None of the above applied in these situations but it’s important to be aware of.

Tryptophan and GABA product options

Products I recommend include Lidtke 500 mg Tryptophan, Source Naturals GABA Calm lozenges and Now GABA Powder. You can purchase these from my online store (Fullscript – only available to US customers – use this link to set up an account).

If you’re not in the US, Doctor’s Best L-Tryptophan 500mg and Source Naturals GABA Calm lozenges and Now GABA Powder are products I recommend on iherb (use this link to save 5%).

Additional resources when you are new to using tryptophan or GABA and other amino acids as supplements

We use the symptoms questionnaire to figure out if low serotonin or low GABA or other neurotransmitter imbalances may be an issue for you.

This blog is a follow-on from the previous blog on this topic so be sure to read that blog too. It also features many valuable questions in the comments and my responses, hence this new post. I hope this has been helpful for you.

Have you had success using GABA and tryptophan together for anxiety, insomnia, ruminations, depression, overwhelm, TMJ etc?

Have you tweaked your dosing to find the ideal doses for your needs?

If yes, what doses and which products have helped?

If you’re a practitioner do you use tryptophan and GABA with clients/patients with these low serotonin and low GABA symptoms?

And please let me know if it’s helpful that I’m now including product recommendations and where to get them?

Feel free to share and ask your questions below.

Mom switches her teen son from 5-HTP to tryptophan. In 3 days he has less anxiety, fears and ruminating thoughts, laughs more and sleeps better.

February 16, 2024 By Trudy Scott 39 Comments

My son has autism and OCD. I took him off fluvoxamine in May and used cbd and some other things and he was doing fine up until this past winter. He began having irrational fears and ruminating thoughts/fears that would not stop! I started 5-HTP, theanine, B12, probiotics with him for the last month and did not see any improvement. I was ready to go back to the medication when I came across your blog and information.

I assumed 5-HTP would be better for OCD, but after reading your comments you mentioned that you just switch to tryptophan if the 5-HTP is not working. I had tryptophan at home already. That night I emptied half a capsule into a little stevia flavored water and had him hold it in his mouth for a minute.

He was a different kid after that!!!! This is just the 3rd day but even his teachers are telling me he is doing really well and is less anxious at school. I am so thankful! I am now giving him 500mg in the morning and early evening.

I bought some inositol and plan to try adding that in the afternoons to see if that will help as well. I believe that he has PANDAS. He is a hand washer, and spits a lot, and has lots of other quirks that I would love to see decrease.

I have hope again! I am buying your book so that I can get a good plan going for him. If you have any other suggestions for him please let me know!!

This wonderful feedback was posted in the comments of one of the tryptophan blogs. I’m so thrilled for this mom and young man (he’s almost 20). I thanked her for sharing all this on the blog and offered to share additional generic feedback via a new blog post. I also asked for additional feedback on exactly how the tryptophan helped (more on that below).

Read on to learn how tryptophan helped with his ruminating thoughts, fears, crying and improved his sleep. And my insights about the ideal timing of tryptophan, finding the optimal dose and why it may work when 5-HTP doesn’t. I also share some insights about inositol and OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder).

Low serotonin symptoms and the questions I had about his symptoms

I do hope he continues to see these benefits. Seeing such amazing results in 3 days is always what we’re looking for and it’s not unexpected to get such profound results so quickly!

I had some additional questions so I could share some general feedback as to how I work in situations like this. I wanted to know his age and if the switch to tryptophan helped any of his OCD symptoms and if yes how many notches improvement?

And which of the classic low serotonin symptoms the tryptophan helped and by how much: anxiety? irrational fears? and ruminating thoughts/fears? anything else? (all the low serotonin symptoms here)

Knowing this helps me know if I’m on track with a client i.e. the tryptophan is helping with low serotonin symptoms. And it also helps me decide we should consider increasing the dose and possibly adjust the number of times to use tryptophan. I share more about this below.

Tryptophan helps reduce his ruminating thoughts, fear and anxiety. And he’s laughing more and sleeps better

She shared some specific examples as to how much the tryptophan helps reduce his ruminating thoughts, fear and anxiety. And he’s laughing more and it helps him sleep:

He would often call me or text me throughout the day with questions about his health, and he would come to me 10-15 times in the afternoons/evenings, for about 3 weeks or so, and ask me the same questions about a rare disease that he believed he had.

He would cry and shake with fear and anxiety at some point and I would need to reassure him over and over again that he did not have this disease, and that it was literally impossible for him to have it.

After starting the tryptophan supplements 2x500mg morning/early evening he did not come to me at all and seemed content the 1st day.

Yesterday, he didn’t get the 2nd tryptophan until 5pm so he did come to me with 1 question/concern. I reassured him and he seemed fine especially after his supplement. Then 1 more question later that night but he accepted my reassurance both times and let it go.

So that was a big difference compared to the last 4 weeks. He was also laughing at some cartoon he was watching which I had not seen him do for a month either. Anxiety is less. He is sleeping better too. So far he still seems to believe the irrational things.

Tryptophan is clearly helping so many of his symptoms but we have more opportunities for further gains with tryptophan.

Tryptophan for low serotonin: dosing and timing

As I share in my book and other blog posts, typically 500 mg tryptophan twice a day is a good starting dose, used away from protein mid-afternoon and evening. It’s used like this because serotonin starts to decline in the afternoon. We increase based on individual needs to find the ideal dose. We may also add tryptophan or 5-HTP earlier in the day.

In a situation like this, if we were working together, I’d consider the following:

Adding a mid-afternoon dose of tryptophan
A switch to just afternoon and evening dosing (unless the morning dose was used for a specific reason i.e. morning symptoms)
Adding a second dose of tryptophan each time (he is using Nature Stacks Serotonin Brain Food and I’d recommend Lidtke 500 mg tryptophan for the second dose each time because it contains only tryptophan)

With changes we do one thing at a time and track symptom improvements carefully.

Tryptophan vs 5-HTP?

I commend her for figuring out the switch from 5-HTP to tryptophan.

It’s a well known fact that some folks just do better on one vs the other and if 5-HTP isn’t working I’ll have clients switch to tryptophan and vice versa. I typically start with tryptophan because it seems to be better tolerated. The biggest issue that I see with 5-HTP is that it’s often not tolerated if you have high cortisol. It can also cause nightmares for some folks.

Precaution about serotonin syndrome with tryptophan/5-HTP

If they are using more than one SSRI and/or a combination of psychiatric medications, the use of tryptophan/5-HTP is not advised.

None of the above applied in this situation but it’s important to be aware of.

Inositol and OCD: when to consider adding it?

OCD or even mildly obsessive behaviors or thoughts can be a sign of low serotonin. I will do a trial of tryptophan as above and for some folks it’s often enough. Sometimes tryptophan at least helps to some degree and when it’s not enough, adding inositol (a B vitamin) takes it to the next level.

For many folks 500 -1000 mg capsules are typically recommended but this is a really low dose for OCD. The powdered form is really effective because you can increase as needed. You can actually go as high as 18g. I start low, with 1-2g in kids and adults, and keep going up by 2g a week until the obsessive symptoms disappear. More on inositol and OCD here.

GABA, dopamine and endorphin support too

She mentions that her son “seems to be low serotonin, low GABA (1st 1/2 of the list), low endorphins and low catecholamines” so other amino acids are likely to be of benefit too.

As always we used the neurotransmitter symptoms questionnaire and do trials of each amino acid: GABA for low GABA symptoms, DPA for low endorphins and tyrosine for low dopamine. These trials of each one are done one at a time with careful tracking to find the ideal dose before layering in the next amino acid.

Using the amino acids so it’s easy to reduce sugar and go gluten-free

I also asked what dietary changes he has already made and she responded: “We are in the process of reducing sugar and going back to gluten-free as much as possible but this will be hardest to stick to. Have done a keto-like and gluten-free-casein-free diet on and off since he was 4 years old.”

This is a great start and using the amino acids help reduce cravings and make it easy to reduce sugar and go gluten-free.

There is a sugar cravings aspect to all the neurotransmitter imbalances. The type of craving can be found on the above symptoms questionnaire. It’s not uncommon to need support in more than one area:

Low serotonin – tryptophan or 5-HTP for afternoon/evening cravings
Low endorphins – DPA for comfort/reward eating
Low catecholamines – tyrosine for low energy sugar cravings
Low GABA – GABA for stress eating

I’m glad she is getting a copy of my book The Antianxiety Food Solution. It has all the foundational dietary information, sections on cravings and a chapter on the amino acids.

It also has a chapter on pyroluria, which is very common in autism and something I help most of my clients address. Here is the pyroluria questionnaire.

Tryptophan and inositol product options

Products I recommend include Lidtke 500 mg Tryptophan and Designs for Health Inositol Powder. You can purchase these from my online store (Fullscript – only available to US customers – use this link to set up an account).

If you’re not in the US, Doctor’s Best L-Tryptophan 500mg and Now Inositol Powder are products I recommend on iherb (use this link to save 5%).

Additional resources when you are new to using tryptophan and other amino acids as supplements

We use the symptoms questionnaire to figure out if low serotonin or other neurotransmitter imbalances may be an issue for you.

Have you had success with tryptophan for anxiety, fears, crying and ruminations? And has it also helped with sleep, how happy you feel and reduced cravings? Has it also helped with OCD?

Did you first trial 5-HTP and then found tryptophan worked better or vice versa?

If yes, what dose and when do you use it?

What about using inositol to further reduce OCD? And what dose helped?

If you’re a practitioner do you use tryptophan and/or inositol with clients/patients with these low serotonin symptoms?

And please let me know if it’s helpful that I’m now including product recommendations and where to get them?

Feel free to share and ask your questions below.

5-HTP with Paxil, when nursing, for men, with insomnia in Parkinson’s and when it gives you nightmares: questions and answers

December 9, 2022 By Trudy Scott 8 Comments

5-HTP is an amino acid, made from the seeds of an African plant, Griffonia simplicifolia, and used as a supplement to ease low serotonin symptoms of worry-type anxiety, often with ruminations, obsessing and panic attacks. When you have insomnia caused by low serotonin you may lie awake worrying. This type of anxiety is different from the low GABA physical/tension type anxiety. Other low serotonin symptoms include low mood/depression, late afternoon and evening carbohydrate cravings, pain, digestive/IBS symptoms, PMS, irritability, rage and anger, TMJ, low confidence, imposter syndrome and perfectionism.

I’ve blogged about 5-HTP extensively and I receive many great questions about this supplement. Today I’m going to share some of these questions and my answers so you can get the benefits too: using it with Paxil, insomnia when you have Parkinson’s disease, if 5-HTP works for men, timing of 5-HTP with nightmares and if 5-HTP can be used in pregnancy and when nursing.

Haley shared how 5-HTP helps with insomnia and asks about taking it with Paxil:

I was taking 5-HTP and it definitely helped me sleep at night. I recently started Paxil for my panic attacks after a recent trauma and I’m no longer sure if I can take Paxil with 5-HTP or not?

I’m so glad to hear 5-HTP helped with sleep. I’m sorry to hear about your recent trauma but keep in mind the other benefits of 5-HTP – helping with panic attacks is just one. When I’m working with someone who has experienced something like this and is already seeing benefits with 5-HTP, we increase their 5-HTP to help with the panic attacks too.

If they have already started Paxil and would prefer to stop using it I have them read this tapering blog and work/discuss with their prescribing doctor. There is the risk of serotonin syndrome with SSRIs (such as Paxil) and 5-HTP (and tryptophan).

There are many nutritional solutions for trauma and psychological stress (a natural disaster or anything else) and we’d address all this too.

Lynn has Parkinson’s disease and sleep problems:

I have Parkinson’s and sleep is starting to be an issue. I usually fall asleep but after about 4 hours I’m wide awake. I’m afraid this sleeplessness will negatively affect my brain if I can’t remedy this. I take carbidopa/levodopa. I’ve seen a sleep neurologist and she wants to prescribe drugs which again I’m afraid will have a negative effect on my brain. Your suggestions around 5-HTP would be very much appreciated.

We always start with the low serotonin symptoms and do a trial of either 5-HTP or tryptophan if it looks like low serotonin is the root cause of the sleep issues (there are many other root causes of insomnia).

If you score high on many of the low serotonin symptoms I suggest sharing this 5-HTP/Parkinson’s disease blog post and research with your sleep neurologist and Parkinson’s doctor: “Research shows that the amino acid 5-HTP (5-hydroxytryptophan), the intermediate metabolite of tryptophan in the production of serotonin, offers benefits for Parkinson’s disease patients. It has been reported to ease depression and to reduce levodopa-induced motor complications. This was reported in two separate studies by the same research team at the University of Cagliari, Cagliari, Italy. They were small studies and considered preliminary.”

Meleah asks about using 5-HTP with men:

Hi Trudy, did you recommend the same protocol for men? Most of the examples are about women and I have a male friend who needs help

Generally speaking the amino acids work the same for men but I have found that the impact they have on the sex hormone estrogen when using 5-HTP or tryptophan (and progesterone when using GABA) means they tend to work exceptionally well for women.

I also have much more experience working with women so I have more to share on these outcomes. With the few men I have worked with I find they tend to under-report when looking at their low serotonin symptoms so this needs to be taken into account when doing the trial of 5-HTP or tryptophan.

Scott shared how he uses 5-HTP for insomnia and his solution for preventing nightmares when using it:

In regards to nightmares with 5-HTP, I definitely seem to experience disturbing dreams when I take it within 4 hours of bedtime. Therefore, I normally don’t take any after 7pm but do take it periodically throughout the day.

I also suggested it to a friend who tried and likes it very much, however, he experienced excessive dreaming which interferes with him sleeping soundly, so I suggested the same protocol to him.

When I was in college, I am now a senior, I tried taking regular tryptophan and soon started having nightmares and hallucinations as I began seeing faces on the wall when I was trying to fall asleep.

I only take 5-HTP now, in extended release 200mg tablets from the Natrol company. Thank you, Trudy, for bringing this subject up.

I thanked him for sharing this interesting nuance of nightmares with 5-HTP and using it in the day instead. (which I blogged about here i.e. some folks do get nightmares when using 5-HTP)

I’m glad he figured this out and it helps since tryptophan does cause him nightmares. We are all so different and have to find what works best for our unique needs.

Carly asks about using 5-HTP when nursing:

Can someone take 5-HTP while nursing?

5-HTP has not been studied during pregnancy or nursing but a free form amino acid blend that does contain tryptophan is often very helpful. You have to really look for these because many companies choose to leave out tryptophan. I have a few listed on the supplements blog.

Other approaches to improve mood, reduce anxiety and help with sleep while nursing include exercise, yoga, diet and bright light therapy/full spectrum light. Dr. Aviva Romm writes about herbs for anxiety and specifies which are safe while nursing.

If you are new to other anxiety nutrition solutions like gluten/sugar/caffeine removal, blood sugar control, gut health, and pyroluria my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” is a great place to start for the foundations. Much of this helps with low mood, cravings and insomnia too. More here.

5-HTP is often successfully used in conjunction with other amino acids

Here are some useful blogs related to low serotonin and 5-HTP. As you can see, it’s often successfully used in conjunction with other amino acid supplementation:

You can see all the low serotonin symptoms here.
Fibromyalgia: tryptophan or 5-HTP for anxiety, depression, pain and insomnia
GABA is a life saver for anxiety, theanine helps at night (insomnia) and 5-HTP makes a significant difference in lessening daily pain
Drastic reduction in intrusive thoughts, anxiety and fears (and better sleep) with GABA, tryptophan, 5-HTP and the pyroluria protocol
If low GABA type anxiety and insomnia is also an issue you may find this helpful too – GABA for easing physical anxiety and tension: some questions and answers.
An amino acid supplement with DLPA, glutamine and 5-HTP eases alcohol withdrawal symptoms at an inpatient detoxification program
You can see the 5-HTP and tryptophan products (and GABA) I use with my clients here on the supplements blog.

As always, it’s not only the low serotonin we need to address. 5-HTP offers quick relief but we must always do a full functional workup looking at diet, nutritional deficiencies, digestion, all hormones, toxins and infections (and so on) so we can address all possible root causes – and why serotonin is low in the first place.

I also want to add that I typically start with tryptophan for low serotonin support simply because I have such good results with it and because 5-HTP can raise cortisol in some folks. If we already have salivary cortisol results and none of the four collections are high then 5-HTP is an option to consider.

Resources if you are new to using 5-HTP and other amino acids as supplements

If you are new to using 5-HTP or any of the other amino acids as supplements, here is the Amino Acids Mood Questionnaire from The Antianxiety Food Solution (you can see all the symptoms of neurotransmitter imbalances, including low GABA and low serotonin).

There is an entire chapter on the amino acids and they are discussed throughout the book in the sections on gut health, gluten, blood sugar control, sugar cravings, self-medicating with alcohol and more.

If, after reading this blog and my book, you don’t feel comfortable figuring things out on your own (i.e. doing the symptoms questionnaire and respective amino acids trials), a good place to get help is the GABA QuickStart Program (if you have low GABA symptoms). This is a paid online/virtual group program where you get my guidance and community support.

Thanks to these folks for asking good questions and for allowing me to share here.

What questions do you have about 5-HTP?

Which low serotonin symptoms can you relate to and has 5-HTP or tryptophan helped? Or have you found success with a combination?

Feel free to post your questions and feedback in the comments below.

Increasing tryptophan or 5-HTP temporarily when a winter dip in serotonin causes more severe anxiety, OCD and/or the winter blues

December 24, 2021 By Trudy Scott 26 Comments

Don’t forget that serotonin takes a dip in winter when the days are shorter and there is less light. If you’re currently using tryptophan or 5-HTP to boost low serotonin and ease low serotonin symptoms – worry-type anxiety, panic attacks, insomnia, ruminations, PMS, irritability, negativity, perfectionism, obsessiveness, lack of confidence, anger/rage, afternoon/evening cravings – you may find you need to increase your dose for a few months.

This will especially be the case if you check off winter blues or more severe winter anxiety (yes it’s a thing and published in the research) on the low serotonin symptoms list.

I shared this on Facebook last week and the feedback ranged from surprised to curious to confirmatory.

In this blog I’m sharing some of the feedback and some of the supporting evidence, as well as other factors to consider.

The addition of 5-HTP in the morning and a light box

Kathy thanked me for the reminder and shared the changes she makes in the winter months:

Thanks for the reminder! I need to increase my dose this time of year… I can feel myself feeling “down”. I take 500 mg Tryptophan before bed and 100 mg 5-HTP in the morning before breakfast. I also use a light box in the morning while eating breakfast, which helps.

This is an increase from her typical dosing in the spring and summer when she only takes tryptophan at night before bed.

She also only uses her light box or SAD (seasonal affective disorder) lamp in winter. You can read more about SAD/full spectrum lamps here. They are also a wonderful way to boost serotonin and mood in the winter.

My daughter’s anxiety and OCD goes through the roof

Mark shared about his daughter’s anxiety and OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder):

Every year from October – March, my daughter’s anxiety and OCD goes through the roof. At first we thought it was the transition from summer to school, then the craziness of the winter holidays and suspected mold allergy. Now, based on this information, a winter/less light induced dip in serotonin may be an additional factor we hadn’t considered. We’ll try adjusting her 5-HTP dose and see if we gain some improvement. Thanks for the tip.

It’s really common for families to attribute the more severe anxiety and OCD to the stress and craziness of the winter holidays. And of course suspected mold issues do need to be looked into and addressed. But even then, the dip in serotonin can compound all these factors.

Planned tryptophan bump for Christmas sugar cravings and holiday family stress

Carol shared this about her plans to temporarily boost serotonin:

I am one of those light weights that was able to do one 500 mg pill a day of tryptophan. But I do think that it would help to bump it up to two a day to get me through the Christmas sugar cravings AND holiday family stressful get togethers! I’m all about taking the minimum effective dose but this is helpful to know that there could be a temporary boost just to get you through this time!

It’s wonderful that 500mg tryptophan is enough for her and I’m all for a minimum effective dose! However the winter dip in serotonin – and increased sugar cravings and family stress – is a common reason many folks bump up the dose for a month or more.

You may also find you made the change intuitively. Linda shared this: “I had made the adjustment. I just did not realize the reason why.”

A question about timing of 5-HTP and what to do in Spring

Suzanne shared that she uses a SAD light (also called a light box) and finds that it helps. She asks:

Can I just take the 5-HTP on days with no sun or is it better to have it build up in my system? When spring rolls around, do I taper off or can I just stop taking it?

This is my feedback: I haven’t had anyone just use 5-HTP on cloudy days but it’s worth a trial. If you are noticing increased anxiety and mood changes only on cloudy days and using the SAD lamp on those days helps, then using 5-HTP on those days may be enough. If not, use 5-HTP consistently/daily through the winter months.

Amino acids do not need to be tapered but I find my clients do better when they are reduced over a few weeks. Some folks also choose to just stop taking them and do fine.

I appreciate all the feedback and the great questions. I’ll report back when I hear how Mark’s daughter does with the adjusted 5-HTP and how Carol does with the bump in tryptophan (and any other feedback I get from these folks).

Some of the research and possible mechanisms

There are many studies that support serotonin changes and seasonal variations in mood. Here are just two of them:

Effect of sunlight and season on serotonin turnover in the brain “Alterations in monoaminergic neurotransmission in the brain are thought to underlie seasonal variations in mood, behaviour, and affective disorders… turnover of serotonin by the brain was lowest in winter. Moreover, the rate of production of serotonin by the brain was directly related to the prevailing duration of bright sunlight… Our findings are further evidence for the notion that changes in release of serotonin by the brain underlie mood seasonality and seasonal affective disorder.”
Sunshine, Serotonin, and Skin: A Partial Explanation for Seasonal Patterns in Psychopathology? “one contributory facet may be the role of sunshine on human skin. Human skin has an inherent serotonergic system that appears capable of generating serotonin.”

Other factors to consider: low vitamin D, sugar, pyroluria and phenols

There are other low-serotonin related factors to consider too:

Low vitamin D is common in the winter and sufficient levels are needed for making serotonin. This paper, Vitamin D and the omega-3 fatty acids control serotonin synthesis and action, part 2: relevance for ADHD, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, and impulsive behavior describes how“Brain serotonin is synthesized from tryptophan by tryptophan hydroxylase 2, which is transcriptionally activated by vitamin D hormone. Inadequate levels of vitamin D (∼70% of the population) and omega-3 fatty acids are common, suggesting that brain serotonin synthesis is not optimal.”
The increased consumption of sugar at this time can lead to reduced zinc, magnesium and B vitamins (like vitamin B6 and thiamine) and this can further reduce serotonin levels, which relies on these nutrients as cofactors for production. By boosting serotonin with additional tryptophan or 5-HTP you can actually reduce some of the cravings.
If you have the social anxiety condition called pyroluria, the added stress of family and holiday gatherings can also contribute to zinc and vitamin B6 being dumped, and further impacting serotonin production.
Christmas tree phenols can be a trigger for anger, meltdowns, anxiety, hyperactivity, insomnia, aggression, self-injury and autistic symptoms in susceptible individuals

Resources if you are new to using tryptophan and 5-HTP as supplements

If you are new to using the amino acids as supplements, here is the Amino Acids Mood Questionnaire from The Antianxiety Food Solution (you can see the low serotonin symptoms here) and a brief overview here, Anxiety and targeted individual amino acid supplements: a summary.

If you suspect low serotonin or low levels of any of the neurotransmitters and do not yet have my book, The Antianxiety Food Solution – How the Foods You Eat Can Help You Calm Your Anxious Mind, Improve Your Mood, and End Cravings, I highly recommend getting it and reading it before jumping in and using amino acids so you are knowledgeable. And be sure to share it with the team you or your loved one is working with.

The book doesn’t include product names (per the publisher’s request) so this blog, The Antianxiety Food Solution Amino Acid and Pyroluria Supplements, lists the amino acid products that I use with my individual clients and those in my group programs.

If, after reading this blog and my book, you don’t feel comfortable figuring things out on your own (i.e. doing the symptoms questionnaire and respective amino acids trials), a good place to get help is the GABA QuickStart Program (if you have low GABA symptoms). This is a paid online/virtual group program where you get my guidance and community support.

Have you noticed this winter dip in serotonin and made adjustments to your 5-HTP or tryptophan? And do you feel less anxious, less obsessive, not as low and with fewer sugar cravings?

Do you find that using a SAD lamp/full spectrum light at this time helps even further?

Were you aware that serotonin dipped in winter and could be playing a role for you? Or did you think it was just the stress and overwhelm of the holidays (and /or some of the emotional upheaval some of us face at this time)?

If you’re a practitioner, have you seen this with clients or patients?

Have you also noticed you need to adjust your GABA and other amino acids at this time too (both GABA and dopamine show seasonality)?

Feel free to ask your questions here too.

Using both tryptophan and GABA supplements together for easing anxiety: questions and answers

June 11, 2021 By Trudy Scott 70 Comments

I get many questions about using both tryptophan and GABA supplements together for easing anxiety and today I’m sharing some of these questions and my answers. This will also give you the opportunity to ask questions you may have related to using both these amino acids together. You’ll also read about some reasons for the confusion about when to use GABA vs tryptophan, some success stories and some research.

Let’s start with this question since it’s one that I get asked many many times:

Should one use GABA and tryptophan together for helping with anxiety symptoms?

I have many clients who need and use both but it’s because they have low GABA and also have low serotonin, both driving different types of anxiety symptoms. It’s important to recognize that each amino acid supplement addresses a very different set of symptoms.

With low GABA levels they will have physical anxiety, tension, stiff and tense muscles and often self-medicate with alcohol in order to relax. Sleep may also be a problem with lying awake feeling tense. Because they also have low serotonin they will have the worry-in-the head type of anxiety, ruminations, and obsessions. They may also have panic attacks, negativity, anger, irritability, PMS, TMJ, lack of confidence and insomnia. (Here is a list of all the low serotonin and low GABA symptoms).

You should only use GABA and tryptophan together if you have both low GABA and low serotonin symptoms. This will address these particular root causes.

My anxiety has improved significantly with GABA, should I also try tryptophan/5-HTP?

This is another common question I get about using tryptophan and GABA supplements together (paraphrased from one of the blog comments so I could share my feedback here):

I’m using GABA and my anxiety has improved significantly, however, the anxiety I feel in my body immediately upon waking is still bothersome. What would you recommend for the anxiety in my body on waking (that improves when I get out of bed, start moving around and as the day progresses)?

Could I try 5-HTP/tryptophan in addition to GABA?

We always want to capitalize on what is already working. GABA has improved her anxiety significantly, so I’d want to have her figure out how much it’s improved (for example from say 10/10 with 10 being worse to 5/10 with the GABA). Then we’d bump up the GABA to see if additional gains are seen. This could mean a higher dose at night and could also mean a small dose in the morning on waking. And then figure out the improvement and adjust up again if needed.

There is no reason why she shouldn’t try either tryptophan or 5-HTP too but only if she also has other low serotonin symptoms other than morning anxiety. And also, only once she has established the ideal dose for the GABA. She mentions “the anxiety in my body” so I suspect it’s the low GABA physical-tension type of anxiety. We often see low GABA and low serotonin go hand in hand so it’s very likely she’ll also benefit from serotonin support too.

Some reasons for the confusion about when to use GABA vs tryptophan

One reason for this confusion is that there are many combination products on the market that contain both GABA and tryptophan (and other nutrients). The company is trying to make a one-size-fits-all product in the hope it will help many folks. The problem is that it’s not individualized to your unique needs – which may be low GABA or low serotonin or both. Even if it is low GABA and low serotonin that you suffer from, a combination product may not work if, for example, you need a very small amount of GABA and need a much higher dose of tryptophan.

Another reason is that many well-meaning practitioners do not help their client/patients make the distinction between low serotonin and low GABA symptoms. This happens because they often don’t understand this either.

Another reason is that many folks jump in and start using these amino acids without really understanding how and why they work, how to use them and what to look out for. It’s why I highly recommend that everyone planning to use them reads my book first, The Antianxiety Food Solution.

GABA and tryptophan have helped immensely with ruminating thoughts and PTSD – can I stay on them indefinitely?

KJ posted these great results and her question on the blog:

Hi Trudy, I love your blogs and I’ve read your book, The Anti-Anxiety Food Solution – excellent! I have been taking GABA and tryptophan for about 6 months and they have helped me immensely with ruminating thoughts and PTSD. Sometimes I try to go off GABA and Tryptophan for a day or two, but the ruminating thoughts come back, so my question is, can I stay on GABA and Tryptophan indefinitely? I am 59, have no health problems and take no prescription medications.

It’s super to hear GABA and tryptophan have helped with her ruminating thoughts and symptoms of PTSD. I shared that there is no research on long-term use and we should always keep looking for the reasons serotonin and GABA are low and try to address these. Since she has my book I assume she has also implemented all the diet recommendations (no gluten, no caffeine, no sugar, eating for blood sugar control etc), addressed her gut health (candida, parasites, digestive enzymes etc) and looked at low zinc and low vitamin B6 too. There are many other factors to consider – I list 60+ nutritional and biochemical causes of anxiety here.

Jessica says GABA and tryptophan have been life-changing

Here is some feedback from Jessica about how GABA and tryptophan has been life-changing for her – and in only a matter of weeks:

I started taking Gaba and tryptophan about 3 weeks ago after reading about the benefits on this page. It’s been life changing!

I take 1000mg tryptophan at night and 100mg GABA in the morning. Ruminations and obsessive thoughts are almost non-existent now. I have less tension in the jaw and neck. I feel like I’m able to deal with everyday stressors that were overwhelming me prior to starting these supplements.

She started with the tryptophan and added the GABA after about a week.

Jessica clearly had both low serotonin and low GABA symptoms. The ruminations, obsessive thoughts and overwhelm were likely related to low serotonin. The jaw and neck tension are classic low GABA but serotonin support also helps with TMJ too.

Paula would not be able to sleep without GABA and tryptophan

Paula shared this feedback on the blog post where I write about GABA, Heartmath and EFT easing Micki’s mold-induced anxiety and panic attacks:

This was an interesting article because I use both GABA and Tryptophan and would not be able to sleep if I did not use them. I have also had chronic mold exposure. It never occurred to me that the reason I have to take these things in order to sleep is due to the mold in my system.

Toxic mold can impact neurotransmitter production and GABA and tryptophan can provide some relief while the mold is being addressed.

Some research where tryptophan and GABA have been used with success

Here is some research where tryptophan and GABA (and similar amino acids) have been used with success:

Essential tremor, dystonia, anxiety and cravings – diet, GABA, tryptophan, zinc and vitamin B6

This study shares the case of a 13-year-old boy with an essential tremor that caused severe functional impairment. He responded to a Mediterranean diet and supplementation with GABA and tryptophan and was able to resume his plans to pursue a musical career as a guitar player.

A randomized targeted amino acid therapy with behaviourally at-risk adopted children

The combination of theanine (an amino acid which also supports GABA levels) and 5-HTP (another precursor to serotonin) led to “significant decreases in parent reports of the children’s behaviour problems.”

Resources if you are new to using GABA and tryptophan as supplements

If you are new to using the amino acid tyrosine as a supplement, here is the Amino Acids Mood Questionnaire from The Antianxiety Food Solution and a brief overview here, Anxiety and targeted individual amino acid supplements: a summary.

As I mentioned above, if you suspect low levels of any of the neurotransmitters and do not yet have my book, The Antianxiety Food Solution – How the Foods You Eat Can Help You Calm Your Anxious Mind, Improve Your Mood, and End Cravings, I highly recommend getting it and reading it before jumping in and using amino acids so you are knowledgeable.

The book doesn’t include product names (per the publisher’s request) so this blog, The Antianxiety Food Solution Amino Acid and Pyroluria Supplements, lists the GABA and tryptophan products that I use with my individual clients and those in my group programs.

As with all individual amino acids we use GABA and tryptophan for quick relief of symptoms. And we also always focus on the foundations like diet, the gut, adrenals and stress levels.

If, after reading this blog and my book, you don’t feel comfortable figuring things out on your own (i.e. doing the symptoms questionnaire and respective amino acids trials), a good place to get help is the GABA QuickStart Program (if you have low GABA symptoms). This is a paid online/virtual group program where you get my guidance and community support.

Do you have questions about using GABA and tryptophan together?

Have you used the combination of GABA and tryptophan with success? How did they help you and what was your timing and dosing?

Feel free to post your other related questions here too.