A new paper published in Life Sciences reports that a combination of GABA (γ-aminobutyric acid) and 5-HTP (5-hydroxytryptophan) improved sleep and sleep duration more than the use of either of the two amino acids alone.
Insomnia is a common symptom of both low GABA and low serotonin. The amino acid GABA raises levels of GABA, our calming brain chemical/neurotransmitter. 5-HTP is one of the amino acids that raises serotonin, your happy brain chemical/neurotransmitter (which is also happens to be calming) and in turn converts to melatonin to help you sleep. Tryptophan is the other amino acid that raises serotonin.
Low levels of both brain chemicals can also make you anxious, worried and overwhelmed. With low GABA levels you’ll have physical anxiety and may lie awake in bed feeling tension in your body. With low serotonin you’ll have the busy-mind type of anxiety, often lying in bed not able to switch off the ruminating thoughts or monkey-mind. (You can find the complete amino acid questionnaire here.)
The study, Sleep-promoting effects of a GABA/5-HTP mixture: Behavioral changes and neuromodulation in an invertebrate model, used caffeine treated fruit flies and:
Behavioral assays were applied to investigate subjective nighttime activity, sleep episodes, and total duration of subjective nighttime sleep of two amino acids and GABA/5-HTP mixture
In case you’re wondering, fruit flies are often used in research. This paper shares that the “Homeostatic and circadian regulation in Drosophila are comparable to findings from mammalian sleep research.” I can’t help chuckling when I imagine these little fruit flies lying in a tiny bed, ramped up on caffeine and with busy little minds!
After my attempt at some humor (laughter is good for us too!), let’s get on to the serious stuff.
The study concludes that:
using a GABA/5-HTP mixture modulates subjective nighttime activity, sleep episodes, and total duration of subjective nighttime sleep to a greater extent than single administration of each amino acid, and that this modulation occurs via GABAergic and serotonergic signaling.
You may be wondering how this might equate to human dosing of these amino acids. Since it was the combined use of 1% GABA and 0.1% 5-HTP that had the most impact, this could equate to:
- 250mg GABA and 25mg 5-HTP or
- 500mg GABA and 50mg 5-HTP or
- 1000mg GABA and 100mg 5-HTP
Do keep in mind that we are all unique and there is no one size fits all so it’s important to do a trial to see how much of each may work for you. This means starting low and increasing until you don’t get added benefits or until you get an adverse effect.
You may do better with a combination of GABA and 5-HTP or you may even find that you do well with one or the other. And you may also find tryptophan works better for you than 5-HTP. We know that 5-HTP can raise cortisol so keep that in mind if you know you have high night-time cortisol. And for many of my clients 250mg to 500mg GABA is too much, although you may be able to get away with more at night than during the day. And different GABA products work well for different people. But again, it’s important to figure out what works for you.
Here are some possible combinations that could help you with the restless nights and anxiety:
- GABA and 5-HTP
- GABA alone
- 5-HTP alone
- Tryptophan alone
- GABA and tryptophan (this is what recommend most of the time)
I recently blogged about the differences between Tryptophan 500mg and Tryptophan Complete (by Lidtke) so the Complete product may well be part of the equation too. Right now I don’t know enough to be able to recommend it.
Have you used any of the above with good results for sleep? I’d love to hear if you do better with the synergistic effects of two amino acids. And how much works for you?
Or are you like the fruit flies, ramped up and wide awake despite using these amino acids?
If that’s the case, please keep in mind that low GABA and/or low serotonin are just one of many causes of insomnia. If you try to address what appears to be low levels and it doesn’t work then you have to look for other root causes such as: high cortisol, low blood sugar, SIBO, gluten sensitivity, EMF sensitivity, medication side-effects, caffeine and sugar consumption, benzodiazepine tolerance and/or withdrawal, parasites, and too much light too late or not enough light early in the morning.
I have a question using GABA and 5-HTP. Is it safe with young children (8-10yrs)? What possible side affects and what is the max dose for children? Where can I get more info about these amino acids and their use with children?
Thanks
Trinia
I would not start with amino acids with kids until we’ve addressed diet (real whole foods, animal protein), balancing blood sugar (animal protein at breakfast), no sugar, no caffeine, no gluten etc. I’d also make sure sleep hygeine is in place – warm bath before bed (with added epsom salts for magnesium + lavender essential oil), winding down a few hours before, dark quiet room, no clock radio or EMF effects etc.
I also like the mom’s I work with to be using them themselves and be familiar with the precautions (https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acid-precautions/) and how to do a trial (link above in the blog).
All this being said I prefer to use tryptophan to 5-HTP with kids and would start with a single amino acid first (as I do with all my clients) and then add in GABA if added benefits are still needed. For dosing I start low with kids and use weight as a guide – 120lbs is adult dose and 60 lbs would be half that, and less for pixie dust kids ie. if they are super sensitive we start with dabs from an open capsule.
This blog has a wealth of information (use the search) and my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” has more details of the aminos and the whole plan for anxiety (with insomnia being part of it).
I have been taking 5 HTP 200 mg. + 1000 L-Tryptophan (Lidtke) and Gaba 125 mg. Should I not be combining the 5 HTP and L-Tryptophan? For a year I have taken the 5-HTP with little to no improvment in sleep. It wasn’t until I added the L-Tryptophan and Gaba did sleep improve. What would you suggest?
Thanks.
Lisa
Thanks for sharing your results. I’ve never had anyone use both 5-HTP and tryptophan at night but will sometimes have folks use 5-HTP in the day and tryptophan at night. I don’t think taking both at night would be problematic unless they end up making too much serotonin.
But based on your comment “For a year I have taken the 5-HTP with little to no improvement in sleep” if we were working together I’d suggest dropping it altogether especially since the tryptophan and GABA improved your sleep.
With the 1000 L-Tryptophan (Lidtke) and Gaba 125 mg is your sleep now 100%? If not, trying more of each would be the next step, doing more of one and then more of the other. Trying the Lidtke Tryptophan Complete may be an option too.
Have these aminos given other benefits too – with mood, anxiety, cravings?
I have been taking GABA 750mg and 5-htp 50 mg at night for a month or so. I am falling asleep faster and staying asleep through the night, so I feel much more rested.
Deb
This is great to hear! thanks for sharing! Have you noticed any other benefits too – like for mood, anxiety, cravings?
Great post Trudy, thank you. With reference to your comparison chart below, what would be the equivalent dosages if (as you recommend) using Lidtke L-Tryptophan Sleep & Mood 500mg instead of 5-HTP?:
250mg GABA and 25mg 5-HTP or
500mg GABA and 50mg 5-HTP or
1000mg GABA and 100mg 5-HTP
Drew
Great question! 50mg 5-HTP is roughly equivalent to 500mg tryptophan so we’d have
250mg GABA and 250mg tryptophan or
500mg GABA and 500mg tryptophan or
1000mg GABA and 1000mg tryptophan
This is obviously extrapolating from the study and would be a guideline since each of us is unique and has different needs.
I know you’ll keep us posted on what you find works for you! 🙂
Many thanks Trudy, yes will keep you posted as always! 🙂
I took Cyto Matrix Cyto Calm 5HTP 100 mg and B6 10 mg for a year at bed time, at the recommendation of a practitioner. I had done some adrenal support work prior to starting this.
It helped immensely with my sleep. I moved and was unable to continue working with my practitioner but continued to take the 5HTP/B6 for 4 more years because it worked supporting my sleep. Eventually I realized I was having bouts of irrational irritability and realized it could be the 5HTP so I have discontinued taking it. Now I’m not sleeping again and have other inflammation issues. Aargh I don’t know where to go from here. I would like to try some of your suggestions and have taken the tests on your site which keep pointing to low 5HTP but am concerned about the irritability. Thanks for your insights and generous articles, I will continue to study them.
Dear Trudy, I read your article with interest. I just bought some 5-HTP from a health food shop in Italy. I wrote to you in the past with my gratitude of your blogs and website as I started taking GABA with good effect, but I still feel my ruminating mind may benefit from serotonin too. These capsules have have Griffonia seeds dried extract 160 mg containing 152 mg 5-HTP
each. I wonder how much I can take to add to my 40g of daily GABA. I am confused as the box says 500mg each capsules somewhere else on there.
I am aware you won’t know this particular supplement (by erbamea.it and its page can be translated in English) but hope to have some directions from
You.
I may try small and increase if necessary.
Thanks a million!!!
Hi Antonella
I found the link http://www.erbamea.it/int/index.php/tono-dell-umore/5htp and I have never seen 5-HTP with a label with 2 different mg amounts. 50mg is a typical starting dose of 5-HTP so ideally using 1/3 would be best to start with (or less if you’re a pixie dust person).
Really glad the GABA is helping. 40mg is a really low amount so you may do ok with less 5-HTP.
Dear Trudy. I cannot tell you how grateful I am for your presence my life! As I said before you are like a sunbeam in the dark tunnel of sleeping challenges, offering hope and direction. I apologise that I write on my tiny phone and do not often re- read before pushing the ‘return’ button )0: I wanted to say I am on 400mg of GABA! It makes more sense now doesn’t it? Thank you for taking the time to open the link, i Am also a bit confused by the double dosing and on Monday before I return to London I will pass by the health food shop and ask the owner directly. Thanks a million again!!!! One extra question if you have space and energy: I have just been through your questionnaire with my mother and she ticks all the entries for the low catecholemines and quite a few (11 out of 21) for the low serotonin, and wondering how to explore to help her integrate catecholemines! Any pointers will be greatly appreciated. In anticipation to your reply, Antonella
Found this, Trudy, from another post/ comment of yours so no need to repeat!
“Tyrosine is the amino acid I use with my clients. We do an in-office trial to see how they feel and figure out how much they may need. Typical is 500mg-1000mg 3 x day between meals and no later than 3pm, so sleep isn’t impacted. Tyrosine is not to be used for someone with migraines, high blood pressure, bipolar or melanoma.
I also have them do a saliva test to assess for adrenal issues and have them get a thorough thyroid panel done. – See more at: https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-mood-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/#sthash.FpIGIAO1.dpuf”
Only additional again here is around the fact that my mother had high blood pressure, no thyroid and with kidney stones tendencies: what would you suggest?
Yes, perfect but as I said I use calming amino acids first. With tyrosine you just watch and monitor blood pressure and you’d want to watch for any other adverse symptpoms. I have yet to see issues with the kidney in anyone I’ve worked with. No issue when no thyroid.
Good idea to ask at the health shop. And thanks for the 400mg GABA clarification
For you mom, I like to use calming amino acids first.
Thank you – this is very beautiful! “you are like a sunbeam in the dark tunnel of sleeping challenges, offering hope and direction”
Do you have a favorite GABA brand that you recommend?
Debbie
You can see the products I use with my clients here – I list quite a few GABA products https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-pyroluria-supplements/
Please come back and let us know how things go for you
If I take gaba750mg will it test positive for methafine
John
I don’t know what methafine is
Hi Trudy,
I have done (used 5 HTP & GABA together)in the past but I now use 3 mg of melatonin & a product called Tranquilent by Sanesco.This is combined with Metagenics Mineral Essentials which contains magnesium, zinc amongst other helpful minerals…
http://www.sanescohealth.com/targeted-nutritional-therapy/tranquilent/
Ginny
Thanks for sharing – this looks like a nice combination of nutrients
Hi Trudy,
What’s your opinion on taking GABA and 5HTP while on daily ritalin (taken in the morning)?
Thanks!
Joanne
I am not aware of any issues with taking these together but I would first address why someone is taking Ritalin and help them work with their doctor to quit this medication and get to the root cause of why they feel they need it. We’d look at low zinc, low omega-3s, candida, adreanls, food sensitivities, sugar, salicylates etc
With ADHD, many neurotransmitters are often out of balance – GABA and serotonin are two of them, but the big one is low catecholamines and tyrosine is wonderful for focus, attention, motivation, the blahs, fatigue.
Here are a few reasons why I’m not in favor of Ritalin
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26687276 “Chronic treatment with high doses of MPH can cause oxidative stress, neuroinflammation and neurodegeneration in hippocampus of adult rats.”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26630401 “Previous studies show that repeated use of psychostimulants during childhood or adolescence may sensitize subjects, making them more prone to later abuse of psychostimulant drugs such as cocaine and methamphetamine.”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26509840 “These results indicate a mechanism that could explain the high comorbidity between ADHD adolescent patients under methylphenidate treatment and substance abuse in adult life.”
This paper discusses micronutrient use http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26682999 “This study demonstrates the clinical benefit, feasibility, and safety of broad-spectrum micronutrients in the treatment of childhood ADHD.”
Oh, I would love to get him to phase off methamphetamine but it changed his ability to focus and concentrate so dramatically that he won’t budge on it. I should say, also, that he is an adult in his 50s. I have say, I might even have sway, but he wants to be productive, wants to be able to work. So I can’t really get his attention on this one.
So I’m trying to get him to stick to a simple supplement regimen of zinc, magnesium, vit D. He gets lots of omega 3s but will not quit wheat or sugar. I strongly suspect adrenal issues. Maybe candida, but he disagrees. Although i will not ever entirely give up on these fronts, I would like to help him deal with his sleep issues. Although, ironically, it’s probably all of a peice.
He initially falls asleep just fine, but does not stay asleep; and when he wakes, cannot get back to sleep. I have successfully used 5HTP and GABA – pared down to just GABA at dinner and bedtime now – to help me sleep and I thought I’d try with him as well. Since I suspect cortisol during the night, I’ll try your method of testing with GABA first. The see what happens with 5HTP. I’m not sure whether trytophan is available in Canada.
Thank you!
PS: Now that I think about it, I might ask him to try some tyrosine in the morning, to test if helps his focus. If there’s no issue with taking both methamphetamine and tyrosine? It might help make my point in a more tangible way.
Joanne
I like the tyrosine plan – once someone sees immediate results they are more motivated. Also, if the GABA and 5-HTP help him sleep too he may also be more open to other suggestions from you! The aminos do an amazing job helping people quit gluten and sugar too so that may be a side benefit
Don’t give up and sorry for the long answer on your original question – I just never know the whole story and don’t know what people know and don’t know.
You should be able to get tryptophan in Canada.
Excellent! Thank you! He actually has – I pushed hard for this – quit wheat and sugar in recent years. Unfortunately, he saw no benefit. He’s a prima facie kind of guy. So I have little – as yet – to motivate that with, except for ideas.
But I am going to show him the paper on neuroinflammation so thank you for that! I need to pick my battles so I’m going to start with sleep and immediate impact on attention. I think I remember reading here about opening the tyrosine capsule and putting it right on the tongue. I’ll try that with him, see what happens.
Thanks for your help! And the vast amounts of information, knowledge and skill you pour into your work.
Good for you and please do keep us posted on his results!
if we find that 5htp may stimulate a bit of cortisol, and Tryptophan may contribute to excitatory pathways, what time of day would we take 5htp with GABA for sleep? Will the cortisol go back down if we take 5htp in the afternoon?and will it still be there to use later in the evening? Do we store it up?
I am badly injured and have a lot of pain, so I get high cortisol levels from that. And I get sugar spikes from that as well, up and down, even eating the most careful diet. I find that GTF chromium helps balance sugar and sometimes it seems like Tryp. is helping for sleep along with herbs.. I have also tried 5htp, but because I have all this other going on, it is hard to sort out. ( Oh, and thank you so much for telling us about DPA for pain, it helps me a good deal during the day. I get it from Lidtke)
I also have found Melatonin to help, but not quite enough, Maybe combining it with GABA. When to take them? Usually, I am a pixie dose person, but can’t get the cortisol to stay down. I have tried various adaptogens for that, and they also help some. Perhaps it is just a dosage issue. I don’t have trouble falling asleep, but staying asleep with so much pain…Any ideas?
Fran
I’m sorry to hear about the injury and pain and pleased to hear the DPA helps! Taking this at night can help too.
Tryptophan and 5-HTP is best dosed mid-afternoon and evening as this is when serotonin starts to decline. I would not have someone use 5-HTP with high cortisol (or would at least monitor with frequent saliva adrenal tests).
Making sure you have enough vitamin B6 can help prevent tryptophan going down the wrong pathway and instead converting to serotonin.
With pain and sleep issues, GABA can be particularly helpful so I’d explore that and do a trial.
I’d also really try and figure out what is driving the high cortisol – gut health? parasites? food sensitivities? toxins? – and try and address the root cause. I’ve got a feeling you know this but just saying it in case.
Dear Trudy,
I lost the thread about your Vagus nerve injury, so am writing back here. My heart goes out to you and I am sending love. You are surrounded with wonderful healers, so I am sure you will get good support. i found/find with serious nerve injury, from a deeply frightening experience that taking time for deep nurturing comfort helps clear the way for the other methods to work. You give so much to so many, i hope you feel our love coming back to you and in a way that comforts and soothes.
xxxooo, Fran
Fran
This is so sweet and so appreciated! I feel the love coming from you and everyone in my community and it’s beautiful!
Sharing the blog link here for other who may read this and wonder https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/vagus-nerve-rehab-gaba/ (perhaps you can also post your comment there?). Just so you know, for future reference, there is a search button top right to find topics.
Hi Trudy. I was recently listening to Dr Kalish’s Q & A from Sean Croxton’s Depression Sessions and was interested to note that he said one has to be careful to not overcompensate with certain amino acids and neglect taking others otherwise an imbalance can ensue causing problems. He also mentioned they should not be taken for more than about 6 months. What are your thoughts on this and am I ok just focusing on taking GABA and Tryptophan as those are my areas to be addressed or will just taking these 2 cause a neurotransmitter imbalance between serotonin and dopamine causing unwanted side effects?
Thanks.
Drew
Drew
This is an area where we have a professional difference of opinion. There is no one size fits all so we can’t say that for sure. If down the road, something affected your catecholamines and your dopamine levels dropped then I’d say it’s time to address that then.
But it’s a great question!
Thanks Trudy, will monitor and let you know how I get on! My Lidtke ‘Sleep and Mood’ and ‘Complete’ have just arrived – not easy to source in the UK but our usual specialist supplement supplier was able to order them in on a special order. You don’t by any chance know of a supplier here in the UK do you? I’m impressed with the glass bottle packaging – looks like a good brand as you have expressed all along… 🙂
I’m a little ‘nervous’ to start taking Tryptophan because I’m aware that with my MAO ‘T’ allele (i.e. slow breakdown of Serotonin), I could be wired and worse off taking in more Tryptophan! What are your thoughts? As per your recent blog post on these two Lidtke products, I’m going to start with just the Sleep and Mood for a while before introducing and testing the Complete to ensure that the additional ingredients in Complete don’t cause issues. However, the Complete actually may be better for my SNP’s because it contains Niacinimide and Riboflavin (B2) which I understand helps to breakdown excess Serotonin. Time will tell – will let you know! 🙂
I like this plan (and don’t have a UK distributor)
Hello Trudy. I hope you are making good progress with your vagus nerve issue. I’m sorry to hear you have been through so much. That flight sounded terrifying. I’m not sure even 1000mg GABA Calm would have helped me in that situation! 😉
An update as promised! I’ve had an interesting, yet anxiety inducing initial response to the Lidtke L-Tryptophan ‘Sleep and Mood’! I just started testing early last week for 3 days – 500mg mid pm and 500mg before bed taken directly on the tongue. The initial response from taking it on the tongue was a perceived sense of calm within 5 mins or so i.e. an 8 down to a 6 perhaps, although that could have just been a placebo effect as I have been so fired up and in anticipation of trying the #lovelidtke L-Tryptophan product, having learned so much about it for so long! However, sleep on the first night was heavily disrupted, I had very weird dreams and was awake from 2.45am and unable to fall asleep again feeling wired and experiencing excessive ruminating thoughts. This seemed significantly worse compared to without L-Tryptophan. On the second day after both doses, I felt a short spell of hope and calm again but then started feeling agitated. I fell asleep ok but woke at 3.45am and couldn’t get back to sleep experiencing more ruminating thoughts and agitation. On the third day I was very easily stressed and agitated by the smallest things and had excessive mood swings. On the third night I fell asleep for about 20 mins and then woke up frightened and couldn’t fall asleep and was awake most of the night thereafter with short spells of sleep, unable to remain asleep for any length of time. I felt wired, agitated, overheating, angry, wanting to break things, ruminating like crazy and couldn’t calm down until I eventually resorted to taking some GABA Calm which helped only slightly.
I’m not sure if this unfavourable response is to do with what’s going on in my life at the moment or related to the L-Tryptophan trial. It’s so difficult to correctly choose the right time to do a trial. I’ve had a pretty stressful time of late but would have thought if the L-Tryptophan was appropriate for my biochemistry that it would have helped a little to bring about a lasting sense of calm and encourage sleep through all of this. That’s what I was hoping for and why I chose this time to trial, however, everything seemed to get that much worse once I started the trial and I had similar symptoms when I trialled 5-HTP 15 months ago. Maybe it’s too early to tell and I need to test for a bit longer, but I can’t afford to have ongoing excessive sleep disruptions like this right now as I have a lot going on and to get through each day and I cannot function on no sleep so I may have to put it on hold until a less hectic period.
I am concerned that possibly because of my MAO ‘T’ Allele and COMT SNP’s that the L-Tryptophan is producing too much serotonin which I’m not breaking down, hence the symptoms it’s causing as described above and I recall Ben Lynch saying people with these SNP’s and particularly the MAO ‘T’ Allele should not be taking 5-HTP or L-Tryptophan. It looks like in my case with regard to anxiety and depression that, as Dr Kelly Brogan firmly advocates, low serotonin may potentially not be the problem and that I need to delve deeper and ‘Eat Dirt’ and heal the gut and everything along with it… 😉
I recently stopped taking Prescript Assist probiotic and also removed fermented foods from my diet and I have slept much better the last few nights. Wondering if the high level of histamines in these foods are what have been playing havoc with my biochemistry? So hard to tell with all these variables.
Any thoughts?
Drew
I’m sorry to hear about this! esp since it’s #lovelidke. A few thoughts: the symptoms you describe sound like too much and much much less may work; I would not ever recommend continuing with a trial after a first day of bad results (to keep in mind for future trials); I’ve worked with many clients with these SNPs and as with anything it’s a matter of finding the amount that works for the person.
It may also not be low serotonin that is a factor.
For the last three years, I have woken up every morning with anxiety. My abdomen is very tense and sometimes there is depression. After about half an hour it disipates. But it seems to be in conjunction with dreaming.. I seem to be dreaming all through the night and then wake in the morning with anxiety. They are not nightmares and I do remember them. There is no reoccurring theme. I have tried many supplements for sleep. I now take Magnesium and 500 of Tryptophan and 3 mg of Melatonin. This works wonders in getting to sleep but not with them anxiety. I don’t usually nap during the day, but I have this same problem if I do. I have had so many tests but all clear. I do have HPylori but no digestive symptoms or any other symptoms due to this. Any suggestions? Thankyou
Clare
I would consider low GABA levels (tense abdomen) and possibly high cortisol (via a saliva test). Restless sleeping with dreaming can also happen with SIBO and food sensitivities.
I have tried the GABA you recommend and it didn’t do anything for the tension. I only take 125g for a few nights but maybe I need more. I know I have high cortisol in the morning as I was tested via blood test and it is very high. Supplements and herbs have not helped. I have had a bowel test and only reported positive for HPylori. But I will look at the food sensitivities. Thankyou Trudy
Clare
I have my clients increase the GABA until they don’t see additional benefits. And with the high cortisol Interplexus Seriphos at night and Biotics De-Stress in the morning helps to lower the high cortisol.
A stool test won’t pick up SIBO – it’s a hydrogen breath test. here is the SIBO questionnaire https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/sibo-small-intestinal-bacterial-overgrowth-questionnaire/
Thanks Trudy. I will see how I can source these supplements as I live in Australia.
I have had a hydrogen breath test too and it showed up only HPylori.
Clare
Emerson does ship internationally. I hope to have a blog of Australian products in the near future. As far as I’m aware you cannot test for H/Pylori on the SIBO breath test so I’m guessing we’re talking about 2 different tests here
Hi Trudy, the breath test I had done was called a breath test for HPylori, where you swallow a hydrogen capsule and then wait and blow into the balloon. I have also had a gastroscopy and showed there was inflammation from the HPylori and a full faeces test which only showed HPylori and nothing else. I hope we are talking about the same thing. Thanks for the company name to source the supplements your suggested.
Got it! I have not heard it called a breath test but I am familiar with it. There is another breath test that measures methane and hydrogen gasses in the small intestine to see if SIBO is present.
Hi Trudy,
I saw a Sleep Specialist today. He told me that what I am experiencing is brain adrenalin due to PTSD. Even though I have been in therapy and addressed it and dont feel I have any emotional attachment to my past now, it is still present when I am asleep and is causing high cortisol and adrenalin in the morning. He wants to prescribe Prazosin or Clondidine to bring down the cortisol at night. Would the Interplexus Seriphos and Biotics De-Stress address this problem. Thankyou.
Clare
High cortisol is one big factor with sleep and anxiety. Since I don’t know exactly what was tested or the levels I can’t make a recommendation for you but will say that I use both with clients when we see high cortisol in saliva tests. We also look at why it’s high – parasites, gluten, endogenous sources like cosmetics, stress/trauma/PTSD etc. And use a good nourishing adrenal protocol too, with stress reduction techniques.
Thanks Trudy. I will speak to my GP about further testing for this. In the meantime I have odered the two supplements you haven suggested. Your advice is very appreciated.
Hi Again Trudy, I have some Gaba Calm from Source Naturals. As I said in my previous post, I have tried it before and it didn’t seem to help and maybe I needed more. So I was feeling tension and anxiety in my body and took up to three tablets. I felt very spaced out and only helped with the tension a little bit. Is this normal? I dont think I can take more than three as it would feel that it would knock me out. So in total it was 375 mg of Gaba. This dosage would be good for insomnia, but I dont know what dosage to take during the day. Would you be able to please comment on this. Thankyou.
Clare
If a client has an adverse reaction I have them stop – feeling spaced out is an adverse reaction. Some people do better on other forms of GABA (https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/gaba-calming-amino-acid-products-results/) and often just GABA alone (the GABA Calm has tyrosine). Or it may be a high cortisol issue.
I’m sorry but I can’t “consult” and give you specifics on the blog – there are just too many variables
Thats fine Trudy. Thanks for all the information you have provided me with.
Hi Trudy, I tried a different Gaba which is 750mg and called Ultimate Nutrition Gaba, as the tension in my abdomen is very tight. I also took it with 500 mg of Inositol. It did not make any difference whatsoever. My son (22 years) has anxiety and gets a tight chest and I gave him some and it made no difference to him at all. I have tried it three times now and even with L-Theanine 200mg, but does not address the problem. In my previous post, I said that I took three of the Gaba Calm at 375 mg and felt spaced out. I tried it again, and didn’t have the same reaction to it. I actually felt nothing this time. So I am going to say that Gaba doesn’t work for myself nor my son which is very unfortunate for us.
Clare
Thanks for coming back and sharing – all the aminos don’t work for everyone. So then you move and and look at other root causes (like high cortisol in your case).
Just checking you did open the capsule and hold it in your mouth?
Hi Trudy. Yes I did. I do that with all the amino acids . I purchased the two supplements you suggested which arrived yesterday, so I hope I get some relief from those for high cortisol.
Clare
How are you doing?
Hi Trudy. I have been taking Lidtke L-Tryptophan 1500 mg + Gaba Calm 250 mg. For the first two months I felt like I hit the jackpot! After years of little restless sleep I was finally sleeping peacefully through the night. Now it appears I have hit a wall because I’m back to my old sleep patterns (although not as severe). Can I increase the L-Tryptophan? How much is safe? Have you ever had someone plateau then have to increase their mg? When I wake up I usually grab a Gaba Calm to help settle my active brain. So actually I probably consume 500 mg. Gaba. FYI I find that when I have increased the Gaba Calm my hearing becomes super sensitive. Sound becomes annoying. I’ve had that same sensation when I’ve taken pain killers.
Thank you so much Trudy for your research. I’m so grateful!
Lisa
Some people do need more as things in their lives change, hormones fluctuate etc. Doing a trial with a higher amount will provide an answer. If not, we look elsewhere – parasites, high cortisol, SIBO etc.
And adverse effect like noise sensitivity is usually a clue it’s too much. I don’t ever have my clients push through adverse effects.
My 16 yr old son has been taking 5HTP for about 2 months and has found a difference in his sleep. He has gone from a point 4 to a point 6 of quality sleep (6 being better). I measure him according to how his mood is and he has maybe only had about 2 days of grumpiness since taking it, so I see a big improvement. How long should he be on it for? I made him go from 3 pills to 2 as I want to wean him off. Also, it seems to have reached 6 but not improving anymore. Is there something else we should try alongside? Should he be taking any melatonin? I just don`t want to be playing around with hormones. Thank you!
Mandi
Good to hear about the improvement. With my clients I increase until no added benefits. If we were working together I’d consider a trial and GABA and tryptophan (one at a time) and also melatonin. With sleep also consider paraistes, gluten, low blood sugar, iphone/computer use
Thank you Trudy!
I will try your recommendations. He did a parasite cleanse but we used homeopathy and didn’t see anything “come out” or any side effects so either it didn`t work or my son didn`t have parasites. I wonder if I should try Louse Gittleman`s protocols? But perhaps because he has improved then maybe he doesn`t have parasites?
What melatonin do you recommend? I am a little nervous of using hormones in a teen. And would I use this together with the 5HTP? or one at a time?
How long is one suppose to go on these 5HTP/Gaba etc for? Can there be any negative side effects from long term use?
Thanks
Mandi
Mandi
I have some melatonin products on my supps blog here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-pyroluria-supplements/
I start with tryptophan and then add melatonin. You could also add melatonin to 5-HTP if it’s not enough. With the aminos you want to address why it’s low serotonin to start and address that so 3-12 months is typical.
Trudy, you are such a light in this hurting world. Thank you!
My question concerns post-benzo withdrawal. Since the gaba receptors during benzo use get downregulated, it’s often advised (by benzo support groups) to avoid using GABA while healing. Apparently, its not a deficiency of gaba but an inability for the receptors to ‘pick up’ enough gaba in the person’s brain/body who is healing from months/years of benzo use (thanks to doctors!) Any suggestions for the person who is off benzos but still experiencing occasional insomnia? I can sleep two days in a row, but the slightest upset in my life or schedule almost guarantees I’ll be up all night. Melatonin doesn’t help. Tried Inositol and Calms Forte, too. According to labs in May, my morning cortisol was high but if evenings were continually high, I wouldn’t sleep much at all, right?
Vicki
I’m aware that this can be an issue for some people but not all. If I was working with you my question would be: have you tried GABA or 5-HTP or tryptophan and do you have the other low GABA and low serotonin symptoms (other than insomnia)? If yes then a trial is worthwhile.
I would definately consider high cortisol to be a factor – based on adrenal saliva testing. Seriphos works well to lower high cortisol.
HI Trudy,
I notice that you don’t mention Melatonin ( tablet or drops). what is your experience/opinion about this for insomnia instead of 5HTP or Tryptophan?
Elehna
I often find melatonin to the very helpful for insomnia. I typically start with tryptophan or 5-HTP and then we may add melatonin later if needed
I’ve been using 5-HTP (2, 200mg time release tablets a day) since the end of March for insomnia. I developed insomnia when pregnant with my 5th child last year, and it stuck around after he was born. I added powdered GABA to the mix about a month ago as I was having trouble falling asleep. I find that I can get to sleep well with this combination. I can feel the GABA relaxing me about 30 minutes after taking it. But, I continue to have trouble staying asleep (wake up at least once each night). If I wake in the early morning it can take me a long time to fall back to sleep, and I usually resort to sleeping pills at this point. Any suggestions for sleep maintenance?
Stella
I’ve not ever used time-release 5-HTP so can’t comment from experience. What I do with clients is a trial with the amino acids and continue to increase looking for added benefits. I also find many people do better on tryptophan so would consider a trial of that too. Some people are reporting good results with Lidtke Tryptophan Complete and some prefer the 500mg Lidtke Tryptophan (https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/tryptophan-500mg-or-tryptophan-complete-lidtke/).
I also like timed-release melatonin for night-time waking.
I’d also look into high cortisol (saliva adrenal test), SIBO, remove all gluten and all caffeine (even decaf), and parasites.
Depending on what sleeping pills you use they may be causing rebound insomnia too
Hi Trudy,
For a long time I have felt like I dream constantly when I am sleeping and no matter if I get full 8 hours of sleep, still feel very tired when I wake and throughout the day.
I tried GABA and it definitely seems to help! I feel much more rested and do not have near as many dreams during the night.
My issue is that when taking the GABA before bed, during the day I feel randomly anxious. I have never had any problem with anxiety before so I am wondering if one of the other supplements you recommend would be a better fit.
I would love to accomplish the dreamless sleep without feeling anxious during the day!
Thomas
Glad to hear GABA is helping. Too much GABA can cause anxiety so less may be worth considering.
I have clients do the amino acid questionnaire, review the precautions and do a trial of the related amino acid (https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxiety-amino-acids-overview/). Sleep issues can be related to low GABA, low serotonin and low blood sugar.
If it’s not the brain chemicals then other factors need to be considered and addressed: high cortisol, gluten, SIBO, parasites etc
Hi Trudy,
I know this site is for women but i wanted to see if you could help me out as well. For a few years now i’ve been suffering from Anxiety. At first i did not know what it was and thought i had a serious disease. I’ve been to a bunch of doctors and had countless blood tests which all point to anxiety according to my docs and the therapists i’ve seen. I feel out of it all the time. Not motivated. Unhappy. I have alot of trouble concentrating/focusing and remembering things. Not to mention sleeping. I’ve tried hard to stay away from prescription pills. I took St. Johns wort for a month mixed with gaba and l-theanine. It did not do much. I started taking lemon balm mixed with the gaba and l theanine which also didn’t do much. I just started taking 5-htp 4 days ago. I take it at night and in the morning with the gaba and l theanine. My dosage is 200 mg of 5 htp time release along with 750 mg of gaba and 200 mg of l-theanine in the mornings and nights. Im always tired wether i sleep or not. I was exercising yesterday and today and my head started throbbing. Do you think i should continue what im doing? Lower the dosage? Start something else? I’ve tried so many things and don’t know whats going to do the trick. I also dont know how long to wait on something to work. Any advice you can give me will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Daniel
I’m sorry to hear you’re not doing great. I can’t consult via the blog but can share that I start with having my clients do the amino acid questionnaire, the precautions and then trials of the amino acids (one at a time) https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxiety-amino-acids-overview/
The amino acids work quickly so if you don’t see a result in a week it means you don’t need them, it’s not enough, it’s a bad brand or low thyroid needs to be addressed.
I also have my clients start making diet changes – real whole food, eat to control blood sugar, quit caffeine/sugar/gluten, address gut health and so on
Anxiety and insomnia can have many possible causes and it may or may not be the brain chemicals. Here is my 60+ causes blog https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/60-nutritional-biochemical-causes-of-anxiety/
My book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” (http://amzn.to/2cxKn0D) maps out the complete 9 step plan I use with clients and I recommend everyone with anxiety reads it
All this helps men (and kids) too so I’m glad you commented
I M so desperate for sleep. Have hashimotos and feels like adrenals are in ovsrdrive as I wake at 2:30 and can’t go back to sleep. I took 1500 tryptophan (bottle said this for sleep) and one gaba calm (125) after dinner then two more at bedtime. i added a 200 mg of progesterone (from gyn) to help I thought sleep. After 30 minutes later my heart was racing and couldn’t sleep entire night. I wanna cry and can’t physically. My stomach hurts too. I right back where I started–I need sleep. What can I do? Thank you, Laura
Hey Laura. I have serious sleeping issues since i can remember. I would tell you you’re possibly overdoing it with the tryptophan. I started taking the 5-htp 200 mg time release which i think is stronger and more potent than tryptophan. The gabba i would take is 750 mg. along with 200 mg of l theanine. Try a higher gabba and the theanine. Drink chamomille too. Also you can try valerian liquid or pills as well as passionflower. I asked my doctor for ambien bc i needed something to shut my mind off. That finally has done the trick. Its not addicting either but at least it helps me sleep. You could do a sleep study also. Get your vitamin levels checked along with your hormones. They might be able to help you. Good luck and i know what you’re going through.
Thanks for sharing and being encouraging Danny! Let’s remember that we’re all different and we all respond to different protocols. I’m glad you’ve found your solution but I don’t actually recommend Ambien. I agree with you on a sleep study in case it’s apnea, plus checking other imbalances
Ambien is HIGHLY addictive, it also has a very short half life, so you go into withdrawals every 6 – 8 hours, It’s a Benzo, it very dangerous to take for an extended period of time and you should never quit any Benzo cold turkey, you absolutely have to do a taper to get off of them. I strongly suggest you stop taking Ambien. Look up Benzo withdrawal and addiction. It’s horrible horrible stuff.
Laura
I’m sorry to hear – sleep issues can be due to low serotonin and low GABA and if addressing that doesn’t help then we have to look elsewhere – high cortisol, SIBO, parasites, low blood sugar, gluten, caffeine, sugar, hormone imbalances etc. Since your stomach hurts addressing gut health may be the best first step
Thanks Danny for the response. I do dabble/ alternate with passionflower or kava, holy basil, melatonin, l- theanine or Benadryl.
I suffered with insomnia just before I found that I had hashis and most recently the past 6 months. The past two months have been horrible. Insomnia seemed to be linked to the onset of my period but my periods are all over the place–so maybe driven by high estrogen low progesterone?
I saw a new endocrinologist today and gated the experience. The dr spent 5 minutes asking me basic questions then doesn’t the rest of the time typing my patient paperwork into her computer. A very cold uncaring experience. She said, ” I don’t do insomnia.” I at least got thyroid testing done–which I needed. I asked for saliva adrenal testing she said it wasn’t “validated ” and would only do a 24 hr urine cortisol test. I don’t know if I’ll do that one as I don’t like that it doesn’t help see troublesome times.
Coincidentally, I found a functional dr while looking up cortisol tests. I do bottom out and there are days I just cry all the time about how miserable I feel. Some days I can pick myself up and garden in the sunlight and get my hands in the dirt. I just can’t shake the feeling that there’s something more Going on–this is not just on my head.
hi, i have big problem of insomnia pls help me how much gaba-5htp or tyrosine i need to take to be able to sleep. I am always stressed at work and when i come home i cannot shut my brain please please guide me i will really appreciate it god bless
Tyrosine will keep you up, it is a stimulant, do not take it before bed. This is the cocktail that works for me, I don’t exceed the recommended dosages on the bottles. 750 Gaba is a lot, you might be OK with 500mg. As always, it’s best to take the minimum amount of any of these that will work for you, and as i said, do not exceed the dosages on the bottles. You might also do well to take one L-Theanine in the morning, it shouldn’t make you tired but could keep you calm and your mind from racing during the day.
5HTP take a while to start working, it won’t knock you out right away, so I take it in the morning because taken all this stuff at one time can be hard on your stomach and that will also keep you up at night.
Also a good protein powder drink right before bed will also help, so I chase all this down with Muscle Milk or another high quality Protine mix. I have a high metabolism and get hypoglycemic around 3 am and that will wake me up, the protein mix helps with that. You can also do milk or cheese, but I am anti dairy.
1 – 750mg GABA
Single Dose – L-Theanine
Single Dose – L-Tryptophan
Single Dose – Valerian
Gene
Thanks for the encouragement and sharing what works for you!
I’d like to add this for Kajal (and other blog readers) that there is no one solution that works for everyone. Also I agree we need to start low but I’ll often have clients use more than what’s on a bottle – we’re all unique and need to find what works for us.
And for you – you’ll find your amino acids more effective when you don’t take them with a protein drink (the other amino acids compete for absorption). But you’re smart to have a protein snack just for bed – it’s great for blood sugar control and waking.
One final comment – I’m not a big fan of Muscle Milk – sugar, copper and iron. I’d look for a quality whey or rice or pea protein (based on what you can tolerate) powder and mix with water and coconut milk.
Hi Trudy,
Thanks for the reply, I actually stopped using Muscle Milk a while ago, I just couldn’t remember the name of the new stuff I’m using, I’m home now, so the stuff I use now is called “Prozein Synthesis. It’s great stuff and also has around 20 amino acids in it.
I usually take my supplements a few hours before bed and then the protein drink just before bed.
Thanks for all you work here, it’s truly appreciated.
Kajal
There is no one-size fits all for insomnia. I have clients do the amino I’d have you do the amino acid questionnaire, review the precautions and do a trial of the respective amino acids – one at a time. You can read more here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxiety-amino-acids-overview/. With the busy brain I’d start with addressing low serotonin. I prefer tryptophan to start (only the Lidtke brand) and after the initial trial I have my clients increase as needed.
I would not use tyrosine unless low energy, low motivation and poor focus are issues and only early in the day once sleep is good.
I also have everyone read my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” which outlines my 9 -step approach to anxiety – much of which often applies to insomnia too. It’s more than just supplements: eating real whole food, animal protein at breakfast (for blood sugar control – gig effect on sleep), no gluten , no caffeine and addressing gut health.
High cortisol can be a factor and you can read more about this here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/tryptophan-melatonin-work-but-still-wake-up-at-4am/
Hi…
I have a 16 yr old son that has ADHD and ODD but is not medicated. He uses Do Terra essential oils in the morning, one called Balance for anxiety and the other is called In Tune for focusing.I have him on a multiple vitamin plus minerals, plus B Complex 1000mg, plus magnsium,calcium and zinc plus an Omega 3 Fish Oil and 3000mg of Vitamin D per day as he also suffers from anxiety and severe mood swings. He has taken L-Theanine in the past but it did nothing for him. He also has a Carnation Instant Breakfast every morning.He is having trouble falling asleep and staying asleep .My question is will Gaba and 5-HTP help him and what dosage??
Lianne
I have my clients do the amino acid questionnaire, review the precautions and do a trial to determine what is best for them https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxiety-amino-acids-overview/ With ODD insomnia I’d suspect low serotonin and GABA will likely help too but again it’s based on the trial.
It would be best to have him have real food for breakfast and make sure it includes animal protein – eggs are a great option and so is a protein shake. This helps so many of my clients with ADD, ODD and insomnia.
We always want to remove all caffeine, sugar and gluten.
Hi,
I wanted to say that after reading all the posts about 5-htp and GABA, I must say, maybe it’s not all in my ‘head’. My dr prescribed the usual standard meds for my anxiety, panic attacks and mild/moderate depression. However, I did my own homework and read a lot of studies on GABA & 5-htp working for some people. I didn’t t want to be solely dependent on the RX meds so after my meds ran out, I switched to lemon balm in the AM, GABA in the afternoon and 5-htp in the evening and it works for me!
Now, I ran out after taking for well over a year and awaiting my paycheck so I can buy more, I’ve found I am highly sensitive to others, sad and a general feeling of blah. (I get paid monthly and had unexpected expense this month-hence I ran out of the 5-htp, GABA, and lemon balm).
My question is this…could my feelings of blah, fatigue and general unrest be due to they are out of my system now?
I have taken 5 mg of Paxil for years. In the past year I have also taken a capsule of ginko 120mg each day. have felt great for more than a year and slept great. Out of nowhere I suddenly have terrible sleep and anxiety. Should any of your supplement suggestions be used with low doses of an SSRI?
Hi Trudy,
Thank you for your insight. I have been using 200mg of 5HTP for four weeks now at night before sleep after coming off antidepressants. My anxiety is not as intense as it was before being on anti depressants (setraline 50mg) but my sleep is being effected and I am finding is hard to get to sleep. Am I taking too much 5HTP or should I be taking this in the morning? Would it be a good idea to combine the GABA and if so how much?
I am considering going back on Setraline but really don’t want to depend on this. I am just scared that the insomnia will continue. Please let me know asap. Thank you.
Hi Trudy,
I have an anxiety disorder and I am wondering if 5-HTP and GABA would be a suitable combination for my condition. I’ve been taking 5-HTP before sleep for a week, and I really feel my sleep is better now. However, during the day i am overwhelmed by tension and constant inner anxiety which prevents me from doing my daily tasks at work. I go to therapy. Would GABA be of any help? Please let me know your opinion? Thank you!
Milena
GABA helps low GABA symptoms so if it’s physical tension then I have my clients do a trial. If it’s mental symptoms then 5-HTP or tryptophan in the day would be my choice for a trial.
I have some question for Trudy about a severe anger and irritability that’s my email please email me I can have some question for you thank you
Samey
Low serotonin can cause severe anger and irritability and so can low blood sugar. I also worked with a child with explosive anger and gluten was a big factor.
Hi
I’m french and I just discovered your excellent blog. Congratulations. Just one question: at first, what dose of GABA and tryptophan you advise for anxiety problems and poor quality of sleep? In the morning or the evening ? regards.
Maxime
It varies for each person which is why I have my clients do a trial – here is a blog on that http://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/how-to-do-an-amino-acid-trial-for-anxiety/ My book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” covers all 9 steps as diet, gut health, blood sugar control etc must all be considered too.
Hi Trudy,
I have recently (1 month ago) put my 16yr old son diagnosed with A.D.H.D and O.D.D with anger and irritablity issues along with sleepless nights on 250mg Gaba, 50mg 5-HTP & 100mg L-Theanine in the morning.He also takes 3mg of Melatonin at nite now, along with a Multi, plus BComplex 100mg, plus Omega 3’s, Vit D 3000mg & Calcium,Magnesium,Zinc.He seems calmer but still miserable and a little depressed. I dont know what to do to help him??
Lianne
Glad to hear he seems calmer. As far as the amino acids go I do a trial to find the ideal amount as there is no one size fits all http://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/how-to-do-an-amino-acid-trial-for-anxiety/ Also many people do better on tryptophan so if the trial of 5-HTP doesn’t work I switch to tryptophan.
And we are also always addressing diet (real food, no additives etc), blood sugar control (quality animal protein at breakfast), removing gluten/sugar/caffeine, looking at the gut, adrenals etc
Gluten can be a big issue with ADHD, anger and depression!
Hi Lianne
I also have a 16 yr old son who has struggled with sleeping and insomnia. We moved here from Africa and we had all suffered some trauma back home in Zimbabwe just before we arrived here and I think that that was the start of his sleep issues. He also received a vaccination 4 months after arriving and I am convinced that the combination of these two things has caused his sleep issues. (I will never vaccinate again as my older son experienced memory problems and attention issues) You say your son is angry; mine was too. I would look into his situation more closely to see if there are any underlying emotional issues and stress that you don`t know about? Something happening at school or elsewhere? My son takes 5HTP and i have also started him on melanin together with 5HTP and he sleeps better but I don`t feel it will really completely “cure” him until he fully deals with his emotional struggles and is fully detoxed from the vaccine. We press on! I hope he improves! Best to you,
Trudy`s help has been my life line! Thank you Trudy!
Mandi
Mandi
Thanks for sharing – and yes trauma and detox is important in the healing process and nutrients help us get there more quickly. Glad to hear my work has helped and your son is doing better on 5-HTP and melatonin. You may want to also look into low GABA and adrenal support
Hi Trudy,
I remember you once mentioned that as a general rule of thumb one would need either GABA or Tryptophan to either fall asleep or stay asleep, but cannot remember which one is for which. Understand we are all different and results would vary.
Zaiason
Some people need GABA (if GABA is low) and some need tryptophan (if serotonin is low). Sometimes melatonin is needed too. And if cortisol is high that needs to be addressed too (Seriphos information here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/seriphos-original-formula-anxiety-insomnia-cortisol/)
Hey there, I just stumbled upon this blog looking for answers to better sleep. I recently purchased 5htp on a patch and gaba(750mg) I do the patches whenever I feel moody and have the urge to drink and take it off 5 hours before sleepytime. I get 4 hours connected sleep each night. its not enough. so I tried gaba last night, I took 1500mg and I did feel the sleeypness but it went away and I took 1500 more an hour after. I then couldn’t sleep for like 3 hours wide awake.
Should I try a lower dose or just give it up?
I split a gaba capsule last night before sleep. aprox 360mg and I did seem to sleep for maybe 6 hours and when I woke I took the last half and slept for 2 more hours.
Today though I’m having a big gaba headache and I had 2 sleep 2 hours in the middle of the day. I lost the urge to try Gaba again anytime soon. any ideas? is the dose still high?
today I slept without any gaba aprox 7 hours only waking a few times. I still got a small headache but its almost gone. BUT the pain in my neck is back. its unbearable. I thought perhaps trying passionflower instead.
David
I’m not familiar with GABA or 5-HTP patches and would love to learn more. I have clients do the questionnaire and start LOW with a trial of one amino acid at a time https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/how-to-do-an-amino-acid-trial-for-anxiety/ I find 500mg and above of GABA way too much for most of my clients.
Keep in mind that sleep issues can also be due to high cortisol, parasites, blood sugar issues, gluten, SIBO too
After my fifth child 20 years ago I was having trouble losing weight, I knew I had a thyroid problem but my test came back normal.About two years ago I was diagnosed with Hashimotos and Hypothyroid. At that time I was having struggles losing the weight, so after my normal test my doctor suggested that maybe I was depressed and suggested that I try zologt, within 3 months I gained 40lbs, so now instead of being 30lbs overweight I was not 70lbs and really depressed. I stopped taking the Zoloft but ever since then if I lose weight I can not seem to maintain it and my wight always returns to that set point. Recently I started thinking that the Zoloft may have done something to my body to prevent me from having a lower weight set point, so after doing some research I came across something that said that Gaba and 5htp could help me finally lose the weight and keep it off. I started taking it last week and have had insomnia. I was sleeping like a baby. After reading your blog article I’m wondering if my dosage and ratio of the two should be adjusted and to what.. I am taking 750 of GABA and two 100mg capsule of 5 HTP.
Mary
I like to have my clients trial one amino acid at a time to make sure they are getting all the benefits and no side-effects. Also 5-HTP can increase anxiety and insomnia when cortisol is high so I prefer to start with tryptophan
Does that mean that I should try trytophan with gaba instead of 5htp or just tryptophan alone? I have had thinning hair and male pattern baldness, do any of these amino acids help or make it worse? I was sleeping like a baby and I don’t really have many of the symptoms for anxiety or depression, I just don’t know why I can’t seem to keep weight off after having been on zoloft.
Mary
The amino acids only work if you have symptoms of the low neurotransmitters otherwise they can make symptoms worse. There are many factors when it comes to weight especially after SSRI use and I look at the gut/microbiome and cortisol levels in clients.
Thank you for that information, two nights ago I did not take either GABA or 5htp and slept like a baby, last night I only took 5htp and slept like a baby. I guess I’m not low in serotonin. Is it ok to take just 5htp, or should GABA be take with 5htp?
Mary
I have my clients take only what they need and sometimes it’s GABA and sometimes 5-HTP (or trytophan) and sometimes both. FYI – responding well to 5-HTP means likely low serotonin
I have had chronic insomnia since I quit smoking in Feb’ 2017. Initially and successfully treated with Ambien but only for 2 weeks.
Then the insomnia returned. I have researched a bit on this and have just started taking 5-HTP at 200mg. The first night this worked beautifully.
I plan to take 5-HTP for the short term, but am waiting for a sublingual GABA product to arrive and then combine the two, even though 5-HTP worked very well (a massive relief when you have had about 2 to 3 hours of sleep per night for that length of time).
I’ll report back and let you know if both products worked better together or in isolation.
Hey Trudy , I have a question with sleep . Most of the time I am doing ok hence water intake foods ect. But a few times a year I suffer from bad sleeping issues. I try gaba and tryptophan and seems not to fully get me to relax a sleep. But the weird thing is when laying down and as I am just falling asleep a nauseous light headed feeling come on and I have to jump up . It is like my blood pressures drop or ? With a headache this last over and over again all night until you pace around. Have you have experience with that issue before..? It is weird but is has to be something it’s horrible then maybe goes away after a while. Your input would be much appreciated. Thanks
Bryan
I don’t use GABA or tryptophan in situations like this that come and go – these aminos only address low GABA and low serotonin. I’d look for a possible trigger like stress, something my client ate, a chemical/toxin they were exposed to etc. I would also get something like you describe checked out by the doctor.
Ok I wills dr. I took some tests all where ok but need to do more again. I need the aminos cause dealing with anxiety daily , and from questioners need gaba and mostly tryptophan. This was a issue that would come on here or there waking up with intense anxiety is what I was really saying. Then it would settle a bit but anxiety is the main issue it will all of a sudden get real intense for a few days to a week. Thanks for reply
Hi,
I have a question about photosensitivity with 5 htp. I started taking it about a month ago. I had stopped taking a low daily dose of Celexa and stopped consuming any alcoholic beverages. (I also started taking 200mg twice daily of milk thistle).
I took 100mg each in the morning, noon, and at night. Immediately my sleep improved. (As not exactly scientific as it is, I monitor it with my Fitbit, as well as how I feel.) My mood has been better and I’ve had a little extra energy (I have fibromyalgia that I don’t take any other medication for.)
About five days ago I was out at the pool and I noticed my skin looked a little raised/rough/ something, but it didn’t itch or anything and was gone by evening. Went to the pool again the next day and the same thing happened. It didn’t look like a rash, exactly, and I thought I was just sunburned. Two days later it happened again but definitely started to look like hives. I thought maybe it was the fact that they switched the pool from chlorine to salt. But the next day I was out in the sun and I got terrible hives (it looks like an orange peel texture); more on one arm than the other, but only where the skin was exposed to the sun.
I took Benedryl and went to bed. It was still mostly there in the am but hadn’t spread. I took another Benadryl and it’s subsided.
I took 100mg 5htp this morning (none last night or yesterday afternoon–only am, and no milk thistle.) Just now (late afternoon) I walked to the store in the sun and I don’t feel worse on the arms, but I do feel like it’s starting to pop up on my stomach. Maybe it’s just an allergy exacerbated by heat.
Anyway, long story a little less long, I was wondering if anyone else had had that experience with 5 htp (or milk thistle.)
Thank you!
Hello Trudy,
first of all I wanted to thank you for your site and advice – so much valuable information!
I have a big question on sleep, actually my father does. About a month ago he had a huge stress and depression, and that time he couldn’t fall asleep almost for 6 nights, so he started using zolpidem 10 mg, and that helped. Now the stress and depression are in the past, he cut zolpidem to 5 mg – 2,5 mg at bedtime, then he wakes up after 1,5-2 hours and takes another 2,5 mg, and sleeps 4 more hours. Now he is taking zolpidem for 4 weeks, and we are now trying to withdraw from it, I gave him 250 mg of normal GABA (not pharma) 30 min before bed and 100 mg glycine sublingual just at bed time, but he didn’t feel the effect, and had to take his zolpidem as usual.
Should I try 500 mg GABA sublingual, and what about glycine – maybe, try 300 mg sublingual together with GABA, and at how much time before sleep? If it does not work, should we try pharma GABA? He definitely was low on serotonine when it started, though now he does not have much symptoms of low serotonine, but still could it be worth while to try tryptophan together with GABA?
Looking forward for your advice! Thank you
Maria
Very useful, thank you!
Hi,
I read your post and found this very helpful as I am dealing with horrible anxiety and ocd and about to try 5htp for it-100 mg. My question is I already take around 2000-3000 of GABA daily and find it helpful (but I need more help so that is why I am taking the 5htp) and I am wondering what is the highest amount of GABA I can safely take if I am taking it in conjunction with the 5htp? I don’t want to do something unsafe that would make my anxiety worse
You could read about cbd oil as well.
Chronic PTSD suffererer here, I tried 5-htp for sleep but it wasn’t effective, instead I felt less anxious and kind of aroused. Then I tried GABA and it did work: I do need to eat carbs like rice or fruit together with it for it to be effective, though. Yesterday my supply of GABA ran out, and I couldn’t sleep until it became 2 a.m. (I went to bed at 9 p.m.).
Soaked brown rice also induces sleep, but because it is hard to digest and slightly bitter I don’t eat it.
In fact, it is so effective that after eating brown rice + fish + green tea I have very deep sleep during the night and doze off during the day (brown rice has a high GABA content, green tea allows it to cross the blood-brain barrier, and fish has omega-3 which releases melatonin in the brain).
I just stopped taking sertraline about 3 weeks ago. And I feel great. Sadly during the antidepressant treatment I developed bad insomnia as a side effect. As a result I get prescription for zopiclone. I’ve been on it for 7 months now. Do yoy think gaba, 5htp combo can help me get of the sleeping pills? I’m so done with big pharma. Hurts more then heals sometimes
Trudy, for myself and for all your viewers, please clearly clarify the answer to these following (3) questions so there is no misunderstanding. It is said NOT to take 5 HTP alone, it must be taken with L Tyrosine, 10:1 ratio, example 500mg of tyrosine with 50mg of 5 HTP. Question #1) Since L Tyrosine increases dopamine and so does Gaba, isn’t there a possiblity that taking BOTH could increase too much dopamine in the brain, wouldn’t just taking one or the other be enough dopamine to take with the 5 HTP? Question #2) If a person has high blood pressure and CANNOT take L Tyrosine, will the Gaba alone provide enough dopamine to balance out the 5 HTP in regard to the proper ratio, since it can be very serious that the brain doesn’t have too much serotonin nor too much dopamine, but instead a perfect balance? Question #3) This was asked once before, but can you clarify with a little more detail, if one decides to switch from 5 HTP to L Tryptophan, is there a strong concern of thinning hair, as i read it is a side effect, or does it depend on lower or higher dosages? Thank you for your service in helping so many individauals, what a blessing you are! Sherry
Sherry
I have not seen the need for the 10:1 ratio as we each have our own unique needs.
GABA is typically calming but too much can be stimulating. We also now know that “several populations of neurons previously thought to release only glutamate, acetylcholine, dopamine or histamine also release the major inhibitory neurotransmitter GABA.” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26865019
I’m not familiar with the thinning hair side-effect of tryptophan. Please provide your source and I can take a look.
Hi Trudy! I’m so glad I found your website! I’ve been dealing with insomnia for years and some anxiety/mild depression too. I can go to sleep fine but I usually wake up around 3-4 am and can’t go back to sleep. I just started GABA at 750mg. And am considering 5HTP. What dose should I take? Is it better to take both? Or should I just try GABA for a while before buying 5HTP? Thank you so much for your advice. I’m grateful for people like you out there taking the time to help others.
Jennifer
I can’t give you specific advice via the blog but can share what I do with my clients. Many people need both GABA and serotonin support and we figure this out with the questionnaire. If serotonin support is also needed I always start with tryptophan (Lidtke brand) because 5-HTP can be an issue if cortisol is high. That being said some do better on tryptophan and some do better on 5-HTP. The dose is figured out based on the trial.
Thanks Trudy!
Which questionnaire do you use to see if serotonin support is needed?
I just started taking 750mg Gaba and 100mg 5HTP 2 nights ago. I have had bizarre dreams, woke up multiple times throughout the night. I cried all the way to work on day one and cried after waking up on day 2. Anyone have anything like this happen? How did you adjust meds?
Amy
I have my clients start with one amino acid at a time and they start low and increase slowly. 125mg is a typical GABA starting dose and 50mg for 5-HTP. Too much can cause adverse effects. Also some people do better on tryptophan instead of 5-HTP.
GABA was making me drowsy in the daytime, so I switched to an Ayuverdic herb called “ashwaganda” which has helped me stay asleep through the night, without the drowsy effects in the daytime.
Jennifer
Thanks for sharing – glad you found your solution! When I hear this I think this very likely means that low GABA wasn’t the issue but adrenal issues (and possibly high or low cortisol) were the root cause of the insomnia. We have to always fine our own root cause and address this.
Hi Tudy, how do one address possible adrenal issue with high cortisol levels?
Rene
This blog addresses this https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/seriphos-original-formula-anxiety-insomnia-cortisol/
Hi Trudy, is 100 mg 5-htp and 250mg GABA good for tension and speaking fast due to impulsivity?
Rene
The dose depends on each person’s needs and we figure this out with a trial
Dear Trudy, I am using 100 mg 5-htp and 125mg GABA during the night and 125 mg GABA during the morning. Should I be using the supplements this way or should i take 300 mg GABA at nights and the 100mg 5- HTP during the morning. Or should i increase the dosage after 3 weeks of use. I still feel agitated during the day and have neck pain and tension. I sleep relatively well.
Andrew
I can’t share specifics unless someone is a client. The best way to know is to do a trial and see what helps when. Agitation, tension and neck pain is a clue someone doesn’t have the ideal dosing or correct amino acid
How can I become a client?
Hi Trudy,
What would you recommend for someone who is going to the toilet frequently in the morning and finding it difficult to control the urge.
Andrew
I’d look at gluten issues, SIBO, stress, parasites, sugar alcohols in the diet (like erythritol), too much magnesium or too much vitamin C for starters
I believe is stress since i have had neck pain for 3 years now and all the x-rays are negative. At more recently sleeping issues and distractability.
Hi!
I have tinnitus and problems with sleeping because of it. I take 500 mg GABA + 4 mg melatonin for sleeping. Since then, I have somewhat improved my sleeping, but still I wake up two or three times in the middle of the night, so I don’t rest well. I am considering adding 200mg 5HTP to that mix, but I wonder if it would be too much supplements for sleeping. What do you think of taking 500 mg GABA+200mg 5 HTP+4mg melatonin for sleeping?
Thabk you very much for your help.
Pablo
Each person’s needs are unique and I trial one amino acid at a time to find the ideal dose and then add the next one. A typical starting dose of 5-HTP is 50mg and we go up from there although I typically start with tryptophan (some folks do better on tryptophan vs 5-HTP). When serotonin and GABA support isn’t working we look at the gut, high cortisol, gluten, caffeine, EMFs etc
Hi Trudy
Insomnia chronic. Iam using 100 mg 5-htp and 250mg GABA and 1 melatonin, during the night for a week but the second day started headache, Trudy do you have idea what happened. Please I need sleep help me. Thanks very much.
Eve
Each person’s needs are unique and I trial one amino acid at a time to find the ideal dose and then add the next one. With 3 new additions we don’t know which is working and which one is causing headaches. Some folks do better on tryptophan vs 5-HTP and when serotonin and GABA support isn’t working we look at the gut, high cortisol, gluten, caffeine, EMFs etc
Hi Trudy,
I tried L-tryptophan, GABA and 5-HTP, Omega-3 at various strengths and frequency, but I realized my sleep got worse and vision. I am thinking perhaps the issue is high cortisol. What can i try to remedy this possibility?
Andrew
I use Seriphos for high cortisol but only after salivary cortisol testing. More on that here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/seriphos-original-formula-anxiety-insomnia-cortisol/
I also would never rule out tryptophan or GABA until I was sure they were being used properly – one at a time, trialed based on symptoms, sublingual and good quality products. 5-HTP can be stimulating for some and I would not have someone use omega-3s at night as it can affect sleep. Fatty acid testing (blood spot works fine) will confirm if they are needed too.
Hi Trudy,
Would you recommend Valerian root for Anxiety?
Andrew
I start with amino acids when someone has anxiety and insomnia but some folks do well with herbs such as valerian. It does cause nightmares in some folks
Hi.
Just a quick word to say the mix of 500mg of GABA and 100mg of 5HTP really worked well on me.
I had really big issues of deep sleep time. I’m taking these since 1 month and my deep sleep time did X2.
Great combo for me. Thanks to your article I tried this and I wanted to thank you for that ! Made my life/work easier !
Best regards from Paris, France
Thomas
Thanks for coming back and sharing your success! That’s wonderful!
Hi Trudy,
Does L-Arginine affect sleep and can a person take it at nights along with GABA?
Andrew
I don’t have enough experience with arginine to be able to comment
Hi Trudy,
Thank you for sharing all this info!
I am diagnosed with Methan dominant SIBO, tried a lot of herbal,natural protocols already but its a desperate journey with more downs than ups.
Now i would like to try and introduce 5-HTP and GABA in my protocol, as it has an positiv influence on the GI function – and it said you should take something for gut motility.
could you give maybe an advice about a good dosage for both in this case?
Is it good to combine 5-HTP with GABA for that reason or is it better to use 5-HTP alone? (e.g. 100mg 3 times a day?)
I would be grateful for an info from your side. Thank you so much!
Best regards,
Thomas
Thomas
All amino acids are doses according to unique needs so it would be based on a trial – starting with 50mg 5-HTP or 500mg tryptophan and 125mg GABA. Combining them is helpful for many folks but I start clients with one at a time
Hi Trudy,
Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge!
I am taking 5-HTP -100mg for a month now and I noticed an improvement in my mood and I feel happier, but falling asleep is still difficult. I added GABA -500mg together with it, I take them both 30 min before going to bed, hopefully, will have even better results soon (I just added GABA a few days ago didn’t notice a difference yet).
I was wondering if 1000mg GABA and 100mg 5-HTP is not too much to take at once before bedtime?
Maybe I should take 500mg of GABA in the evening and then 500mg GABA + 100mg 5-HTP before sleep? (I don’t know if weight matters but I am around 50kg)
Would appreciate your advice very much!
Best regards,
Nina
Nina
Great to hear 5-HTP improves your mood and you feel happier!
I use various combinations and timings with my clients and it’s a matter of finding what works for each person. Keep in mind that GABA is best used sublingually and some people do better with tryptophan vs 5-HTP.
Apologies for the delay in your comment approval and my response. We had a computer glitch where a large number of comments were hidden from view in a spam folder. It mostly affected new folks who were commenting for the first time but it’s hopefully resolved now.
I have been using 5htp for a couple of years and its has been great. Lately it has not been working it could be because I am in to Menopause. A family member has been experiencing something similar and I wondered if you could become sensitised. I have just read about combining with GABA and so will introduce 500mg.
Judy
As you know there can be many fluctuations in menopause and root causes can change. One example is lead being released from bones and this can increase anxiety, make sleep worse and be a factor in high blood pressure.
I’m curious what symptoms 5-HTP was helping with before and what aspects are no longer working. Also what dose and product? Did you increase the dose to see if that would help?
I have clients start with 125mg GABA and work up from there. A starting dose of 500mg is very high for most
Thanks for taking the time to reply
5 htp was helping with sleep, getting off to sleep and staying asleep. I used 50mg by nutravita. It was really great for about a year, but has started to work less well. I recently doubled the dose to 100mg. Nothing. I then added 500mg of Swanson GABA, it comes in a 500mg capsule and still no improvement. If you believe 500mg GABA is too much I could cut one in half, even it being powder. Maybe I could up the 5HTP some more. I would love to have the going off to sleep and staying asleep I had for atleast 5 hrs with the 5Omg 5HTP.
Dear Trudy,
At this moment I use 200mg 5-HTP with 300mg magnesium Citrate before bed.
I read on your website it’s a good thing to combine 5-HTP with GABA.
What dosage GABA do you suggest for a good deep and restful sleep? 1000mg GABA with 200mg 5-HTP and 300mg Magnesium Citrate?
Thank you very much in advance!
San
Some people do well combining serotonin and GABA support for sleep and some don’t so it’s matter of doing a trial. I always have my clients start low with GABA and increase from there. 125mg is a typical starting dose for GABA.
If you are new to the amino acids (and other anxiety nutrition solutions like gluten/sugar/caffeine removal, blood sugar control, gut health, pyroluria etc) my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” is a great place to start. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
I was using 50g of 5htp and it was excellent. After about a year it is no longer effective. I upped the dose to 100mg still not good and then recently added 500mg of GABA and I am not sleeping as I used to with the initial 50mg. I have chronic sinitus and breathing issues and I am really diappointed I have lost the benefits. Any suggestions or new combinations. Thanks
Judy
This blog may be helpful … it’s on serotonin/tryptophan but similar logic may apply – Tryptophan doesn’t work, then it does and then it doesn’t: could it be hormonal shifts, dietary factors and/or parasites? https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/tryptophan-doesnt-work-then-it-does-and-then-it-doesnt-could-it-be-hormonal-shifts-dietary-factors-and-or-parasites/
Hi
Can I ask if a GABBA 750mg capsule can be opened and dissolved in water, after all you can buy GABBA in powder form. I can’t swallow large capsules and 750mg is the exact dosage I want to take. Soluble GABBA is hard to find and always comes in such a small dosage. I know there can be serious concerns for taking certain medicines out of their casings, but surely this supplement does not fall in to that category. To be honest I have already started doing it, but I just wanted to ask. Thanks
Judy
Yes it can be taken this way or simply opened into the mouth. Keep in mind 750mg is a very high starting dose. I start clients on 125mg and we increase from there
If you are new to the amino acids (and other anxiety nutrition solutions like real whole food, quality animal protein, fermented foods, organic produce, health fats, gluten/sugar/caffeine removal, blood sugar control, gut health, pyroluria etc) my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” is a great place to start. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/ It’s a comprehensive approach – amino acids AND diet.
My book does have an entire chapter on the amino acids and many folks do really well implementing on their own. My online GABA Quickstart group program is helpful when you have questions and need guidance (and moral support/encouragement). More here about the program and purchase info https://www.anxietynutritioninstitute.com/gabaquickstart/
Thank you its all so very helpful
Hi,
How would you address sibo hydrogen and parasites dientomaeba fragilis. Wondering if they are part of the problem, as I feel very fatigue and have developed a leg tremor and agitated. Also wanted to know you opinion of ferritin levels, mine is 17 with normal hemoglobin and my doc says they are fine but want to know your opinion if that level is low and should be addressed and could be making the fatigue worst?
Thank you,
V
A ferritin of 17 is considered low. Please search the blog on SIBO and parasites as there are a number of blog posts.
With fatigue we also look into diet (gluten, sugar, dairy etc), low dopamine/tyrosine, low thyroid and adrenals. All covered in my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” is a great resource https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
Hi Trudy
I have found this all very helpful and your help especially, but also others sharing their experiences.
I am a terrible sleeper, I have allergies and I am a mouth breather. I am one of those people that if I really need to sleep for any reason, anxiety kicks in and rest assured I will be awake all night. Sometimes I think I am asleep, but then someone in the flats come in and I realise actually I was awake. If I do doze off and it takes a long time I will wake up in the eatly hours. My mind talking all kinds of rubbish, with my favourite song usually playing over and over in my head, which is least better than critical thoughts.
I have a questions and its the following, I understand the combinations of GABA and 5HTP vary for individuals. I tried a 750mg GABA and 100 mg of 5HTP and will up the GABA to 1000mg.
My experience to date is that 750mg GABA and 100mg of 5HTP calms me down and I get off to sleep, however I will be alert some 3 hours later. I have then decided at that point to take another 750mg and whilst I do may not go off to sleep it relaxes me so I do feel that horrible anxiety in the morning (sleep deprevation and allergies). Is it ok to take that level of GABBA in one night?
Thanks
Judy
Yes the dosing of GABA and the other amino acids vary per individual need. I do find using GABA sublingually works better and allows less to be used.
With waking in the night we also look into high cortisol (https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/seriphos-lowers-high-cortisol-prevent-waking-in-the-night-and-nighttime-anxiety/) and oxalate/gallbladder/toxins issues (https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/waking-in-the-night-due-to-environmental-toxins-impacts-on-the-liver-gallbladder-and-fat-digestion-making-oxalate-issues-worse/)
And of course low blood sugar, parasites, SIBO, caffeine etc – there are many possible root causes
Hi Trudy
Thanks for your reply, I will see if I can get some. Could I open a capsule and use it sublingually?
Thanks for the other link I am sure I have high cortisol
Judy
Yes I have clients open capsules (making sure there are no fillers that would be an issue)
Thank you. When I looked back over my questions I realised I had asked this before.