Sean Croxton host of Underground Wellness Radio shares how:
- he was once prescribed Paxil for social anxiety (and depression)
- he doesn’t like big crowds
- he can speak on stage in front of 100s of people with no problem
- as soon as people come to talk to him afterwards he wants to go!
Can you relate to any of this?
He thinks he has pyroluria, a social anxiety condition where you have a higher need for some key nutrients: zinc, vitamin B6 and evening primrose oil.
We are often surprised when we hear that someone who appears to be outgoing and extroverted (like Sean) actually has social anxiety.
It’s more common than you think and is made worse under stressful situations: life stresses, gluten sensitivities etc.
I share how my social anxiety got really bad in my late thirties (when my PMS was so bad) and how
- many of us with pyroluria push through and deal with it
- we just want to stay home
- we don’t really want to see people
Not everyone needs omega-3 supplements!
We discuss omega-3s and omega-6s and how pyrolurics often don’t need to supplement with omega-3s like fish oils but can extract the omega-3s from the foods they eat: grass-fed red meat, wild fish like salmon, leafy greens and walnuts.
Pyrolurics often do need to supplement with the GLA form of omega-6 that we find in evening primrose oil as GLA is often low, plus the GLA enhances zinc absorption.
(by the way: I said alpha linolenic acid (ALA) but should have said gamma linolenic acid (GLA)
A good copper-free multi is part of the protocol because low zinc often means high copper and this can make you more anxious.
Looking at other sources of copper is a helpful for many pyrolurics: eating too many nuts, baking with nut flours, the copper IUD.
You don’t want to miss this part…Sean asks if you can cure introversion with this pyroluria protocol. If you are an introvert and force yourself in social settings, feel very uncomfortable and anxious being around big groups of people then you’re going to have to watch the end of the video for my answer!
You can watch the whole snippet here
This is part of my interview on the Depression Sessions, an online event hosted by my friend Sean. I’ll also be sharing information about the amazing amino acids – inexpensive, over-the-counter supplements that can lift your mood and end anxiety in minutes!
Sean traveled the country to interview the best of the best experts — medical doctors, naturopaths, nutritionists, and bestselling authors — on what really causes depression and anxiety and what to do about it.
Some of us (like me) flew to San Diego to be interviewed in his home. It was such a thrill to be interviewed by the legendary Sean Croxton and is an honor to be part of this group of experts!
Here are just a few of the amazing experts you’ll hear from:
- Suzy Cohen, also known as America’s Pharmacist, uncovers specific prescription drugs that rob your body and brain of mood-friendly nutrients.
- Datis Kharrazian will show you what insomnia, anxiety, and the symptoms that tag along with depression can tell you about what’s causing it.
- Hyla Cass, a medical doctor and integrative psychiatrist (who has been featured on two prior Anxiety Summits), shares her best tips for transitioning OFF of psychiatric meds while avoiding or minimizing common withdrawal symptoms.
- Ben Lynch (another Anxiety Summit favorite) reveals the incredibly common genetic mutation known to drive depression (and anxiety) … and the critical nutrients that make such a big difference.
Your info. on Pyroluria is fascinating. I answered “yes” to 34 out of 42 questions of your Questioneer. I am now trying chelated Zinc and B6 and feel better. I was watching a PBS special hosted by J.J. Virgin on Hidden Sugar and I believe you were sitting in the front row. If not then you have a “twin” running around! Keep up the great work! Thank you.
Lynne
Thanks for letting us know – this is great to hear!
And yes I was there supporting JJ!
Another amazing content rich article.
Once again I had no idea about any of this and
the ways to really handle it.
Glad you enjoyed it Mitch! It’s quite amazing what we can achieve with the correct nutrition and nutrients!
Honestly for anyone who suffers from these mood issues there is no better information to be found. You’ve really corralled all the intelligence into one place, Trudy.
Thanks Sue! I’m doing my absolute best to put all the puzzle pieces together
Wow Trudy,
This is amazing!
I used to be a therapist and I know so many people are suffering AND have no idea that their anxiety and symptoms may have another cause and another way to treat/cure it.
So glad your work is out in the world, because you are making a huge difference.
Blessings,
Therese
Thanks Therese! Food and nutrients are powerful and so many people just don’t make this connection when it comes to anxiety. What’s more incredible is that you can see social anxiety start to go away within a week of starting the supplements
Trudy your information is so great. It’s amazing to me to think that something so debilitating could be caused by a nutrient deficiency. I am grateful for the hope you give people who suffer.
Pretty powerful isn’t it!?
What dosage do you recommend for a teenage girl with mild social anxiety and PMS ?
Mondana
I start my clients on 30 mg zinc, 100mg vitamin B6 and 1300mg EPO and use zinc tally/test and dream recall as guides, plus social anxiety and PMS symptom relief
Thanks Trudy, you are an inspiration , always look forward to your emails or you summits
Hi Trudy,
I enjoyed your talk, loads of useful information. Thank you for sharing.
You mentioned about 30 mg zinc, 100mg vitamin B6 and 1300mg EPO. Is there any particular brand you would recommend. Also, is there any benefit in taking the zinc supplement with copper in it?
Cheers
Sheena
I like Optizinc (Solgar or Douglas labs ) with no copper. Now Super Primrose and a good professional grade vitamin B6
Trudy, I answered “yes” to so many questions that I didn’t think to score myself until this morning. I get a whopping 32!
I have suffered from debilitating insomnia since 1998, when a car mowed me down. I have only gotten more fatigued over the years. I rarely remember having dreamt.
I have been taking regular old pyridoxine hydrochloride (ramping up rather quickly to 500 mg) for about a week and a half. MY ABILITY TO SLEEP IS MUCH IMPROVED! I added the P5P in case it’s also helpful. I’m not going to bother to distinguish between the two until later. I think the “shotgun approach” is OK for now.
I started with what was available at the local health food store – a “raw foods” zinc, but then I found zinc picolinate, and now I have sent away for the Mother Earth Minerals zinc liquid (300 ppm) so I can try to figure out which form of zinc is best for me. I have the zinc challenge liquid, and I initially scored a level 2 with a slight mineral then sweet aftertaste.
I am telling all my family members about you, as hypermobility runs in our family and it seems tied to the pyroluria. I am telling any friends that might benefit about you and about pyroluria. Thank you for making available this information. It is helping so many people. You are a blessing!
MaryLiz
Thanks for sharing – wonderful to hear that your sleep is much improved!
So sorry to hear about the car accident! – that would be considered a BIG stress and stress makes pyroluria worse.
And thanks for mention of hypermobility – this one doesn’t come up much but I suspect it’s tied to the connective tissue/joint issues we see in pyroluria.
Please do keep us posted on how you continue to do
It’s not simple but you are what you eat/drink and do for a living. Reducing stress, boredom,hate, fear is a good start to a healthy life. Your brain does most of the work, you just need to feed it with positive thoughts and actions thru your day. The best you can do is live for yourself, Then you can really learn how to live a full life.
Yes, all of this is important
Trudy,
Nice interview …
I am having insomnia for quite some time. I bought your book and tried tryptophan with worse result, then changed to 5-HTP with limited effects, now I am about to try GABA Calm.
Today I heard from your case example that the lady with insomnia tried all above to fail, and you suspected it to be caused by high cortisol. For high cortisol, you recommend Safaras ? D-Stress ? Lectim ? to bring down high cortisol. These didn’t seem to be mentioned in your book or previous interviews ?? Can you elaborate more on these three and their correct spelling.
Thanks from your reader, Peggy Lian
Peggy
Seriphos and Destress/lactium all lower high cortisol
I want to start the supplementation and I have been looking for the B6 online. I came across a post about synthetic and natural B6. Does it matter if synthetic B6 is used? Are there any specific brands you could recommend? Also, are all of the supplements taken at the same time, and what time of day is best? Thank you so much for providing this information!
Ma
I have my clients start on 30mg optizinc (no copper), 100mg vitamin B6, 1300mg EPO and a copper free multi – all at breakfast
I recently watched your video on Sean Croxton’s Depression Sessions, which was wonderful! But much to my shock, you’ve helped me discover I may have pyroluria. I’ve never heard of it before. I took your test and scored 18 on the first section and another 5 in the less common symptoms, for a total of 23. I’m age 71 with 2 grown children, retired and living in Oregon, and am grateful for my reduction in stress. I’ve toughed my way through life successfully, but always fighting my solitary nature.
If pyroluria is genetic, it might explain not only many of my issues, but also those of my son (age 44). He has ADD and is even more of a loner than I am. He dropped out of high school because he couldn’t handle the stress of classwork and functioning within a system (later graduated GED by nailing the test). My daughter is not having problems but she is a loner and has ridges on her thumb nails, which I think also is a symptom. They may have inherited from both parents; my ex-husband lives like a hermit.
What are the genetics? How (if at all) does the condition show up if the genotype is heterozygous?
But my serious question is about the lack of recognition of this condition by the mainstream medical community. How strong is the clinical evidence for pyroluria? I’m being treated successfully for T2 diabetes using a functional medicine approach (Dr. Mowll is my diabetes coach), so I understand the value of these methods.
I’m not sure what to do next with this new information about pyroluria? I’m about to test myself for zinc with Zinc Challenge…then what next?
Thanks for all you’re doing. Donna
Donna
So pleased you enjoyed it! Pyroluria is genetic and many have the MTHFR gene.
There are two recent papers on this blog https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/pyroluria-mauve-pyrrole-malvaria-kryptopyrroles-social-anxiety/ but most research was done in the 1960s/1970s by Carl Pfeiffer, MD.
I have my clients start on 30mg optizinc (no copper), 100mg vitamin B6, 1300mg EPO and a copper free multi
Hi Trudy,
I am taking coumadin and want to know if the pyroluria treatment will be successful without taking suggested amount 1300 mg of primrose oil? I am taking 500 mg but reluctant to go higher.
I have seen some improvement in dream recall and mood at 300 mg of b6 and 60 mg of zinc. ( I was still very low on zinc challenge with 30 for a week.) Also, MTHFR compound, heterozygous. high mercury levels.
My child was also just diagnosed with bipolar could she possibly have a severe case of pyroluria and not bipolar. She had all her life social anxiety, SEVERE nightmares, of course SEVERE PMS and hormonal issues. Gluten, sugar and diary issues.
Do plan on getting an appt. with you soon.
Thank you for sharing this valuable information with us!
Dawn
I have not worked with anyone taking coumadin so don’t have an answer for you. I would suggest doing fatty acid testing to see if you do need GLA and then check with your doctor. It does help with zinc absorption.
Bipolar is challenging to diagnose and can be misdiagnosed. Many biochemical imbalances can look like bipolar – blood sugar issues, hormone imbalances, food sensitivities – here is a blog post you may find useful https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/bipolar-disruptive-mood-or-gluten-and-junk-food/
Great interview Trudy! I am very curious about your comment about Omega 3’s not being for everyone (or getting too much). Can you elaborate a bit or give some references on where I can get more information about this.
Also, I have found phosphatidyl serine to be a great supplement for mood/stress issues, but you need to take it with DHA for better absorption, so not sure how to combat that if the Omega 3 issue is correct…
Glad you enjoyed it Cathy! This is based on fatty acid testing of pyrolurics. The Mauve Factors papers in the blog talk about it too https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/pyroluria-mauve-pyrrole-malvaria-kryptopyrroles-social-anxiety/
I have not heard about taking phosphatidyl serine with DHA for better absorption and would say test fatty acid levels and then you’ll know if you do need it
Trudy, regarding balancing the dosages of zinc, B6 and EPO and the impact copper can play in this.
My current multivitamin includes:
ZINC 6 mg (from zinc amino acid chelate 30 mg);
VITAMIN B6 (pyridoxine) 50 mg (from pyridoxine hydrochloride 60.77 mg);
COPPER 70 mcg (from copper gluconate 500 mcg)
Two questions:
1. Is 70 mcg copper acceptable or is it still too high?
2. To meet the dosages you provided in the webinar, do we look at the Zinc 6mg or FROM zinc chelate 30mg measurement? And same with B6, the first measurement or FROM quantity?
Thanks
Elizabeth
I have my clients take a multi with no copper and the 30mg Optizinc and 100mg vitamin B6 over an above what is in the multi.
For many with pyroluria 70 mcg is too much
Thanks Trudy.
Hi Trudy, I think i have commented on another strand so apologies for the double-up. I have answered yes to so many in your questionnaires. I have managed to purchase Lidtke Tryptophan, Source Natural Gaba, Now Foods Super Primrose Oil and L-Optizinc. I’m not sure which B6 to purchase and wondered if you could advise the recommended starting dosage. I am soooooooooooo keen to start feeling better.
Kate
For B6 I use 100mg pyridoxine at breakfast
If you have adrenal fatigue, is it possible that you could have issues with your neurotransmitters as well and if so, how would you test for this?
Marlana
I commonly see adrenal issues and neurotransmitter imbalances. For adrenals the salivary 4 cortisol collection and for neurotransmitters the amino acid questionnaire (https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-mood-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/) and response to supplements
Trudy, I really enjoy listening to your lectures!. I have a little anxiety and I am going to try the amino acids you recommend. Do I take them with food as it states on the bottle or without food.?
Thanks again
Hi Linda
Wonderful! Individual amino acids like GABA and tryptophan are always taken away from food that includes protein
Hi Trudy,
I’ve recently seen your interview video with Sean Croxton on the depression session and I felt compelled to write to you. I’ve had an interest in the area of health and nutrition from a holistic point of view and women’s health for quite some time. I want to go into this field as a career option however I’m not sure if I could make a living from it or how to even get started. I’m conflicted between purusing a finacially stable job over a career that I might really love but struggle in financially. Have you any recommendations on how I can get into this field or any specific courses you would recommend taking. I would be grateful for any advice or tips you could offer.
Thank you in advance
Hi Tara
I would suggest checking out schools approved by NANP – http://www.nanp.org
There is such a need for passionate smart nutrition professionals but as with any business, there are financial challenges that may arise. If you do decide nutrition is for you I would also suggest looking into ways to get your message out via blogging, writing a book, speaking, social media etc. You can be great at what you do but if people don’t know you exist you can’t help them
I would not change what I do for anything! it’s the most rewarding things I have ever done and love every minute!
Trudy, can you elaborate on your fish oil comment, why you’re not always a big fan of them? Or provide some links where I can get more information? Thanks!
Cathy
People with pyroluria are able to extract omega-3s from the food they eat: fish, grass-fed red meat, leafy greens and walnuts. I’ve also see fatty acid test results of pyrolurics and very few need to supplement with fish oil
The papers listed in this blog mention omegas https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/pyroluria-mauve-pyrrole-malvaria-kryptopyrroles-social-anxiety/
I learned so much from you on the depression sessions with Sean croxton. I have been taking GABA calm daily and it has really helped the tightness in my upper back and neck as well as incorporating the evening primrose, zinc and B6 for the pyroluria symptoms. Amazing results! I feel less inclined to stay in bed and hide on my days off. My neck and upper back have a lot less knots and pain too.
Robin
Wonderful and thanks for sharing! I know this will give others hope and the inspiration to look for answers for their own issues
Hi Trudy,
I have so many questions for you, I apologize in advance.
I have two teenage children (one boy and one girl) who have suffered with severe anxiety their whole lives. My son is doing much better now (but went through years of suicidal thoughts, bolting, getting kicked out of school, etc.), but my daughter continues to struggle (probably partly from living with the trauma of what my son went through). She has pretty much all forms of anxiety and some OCD tendencies (that have turned into an eating disorder-which we have worked through medically, but struggle with the anxiety piece of it). They both have very high IQs.
When I read your book, I became very interested in pyroluria (my daughter scored a 15 on the test and it resonates a lot for myself and my son also).
We have tried adding zinc (15mg on top of 15mg in multi), b6 (p5p 25mg) and evening primrose oil (1300mg). I thought I saw a shift in my daughter when she first started taking these vitamins, but it is not very pronounced, so I am not sure. She has extreme social anxiety as well and is incredibly quiet/shy. Also, can this protocol cause irritability? I thought I may have noticed this in my son.
My daughter and I both did the zinc taste test and strongly tasted it (before starting the supplemental zinc). Could you still have pyroluria even if not deficient in zinc?
Also, their current multi has 750mcg of copper. Is that a problem?
I am trying to figure out my next steps and was hoping for some insight. We are also considering organic acid testing and genetic testing. The nutritionist that we are working with (does not specialize in anxiety) thought we should start with this pyroluria protocol and then recommended the following as possible follow ups:
-Tryptophan -(she does already take 5-HTP)
-Lithium Orotate
-Inositol
Can you give me any advice?
Thank you so much!!
Sonia
It’s very encouraging that you saw a small shift. I suspect copper may be an issue and suggest looking at this blog https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/pyroluria-protocol-why-arent-i-getting-results-trouble-shooting-checklist/
I use tryptophan (for mental anxiety, insomnia, worry and it helps with OCD too), lithium orotate (for mood swings, focus) and inositol (for OCD, ruminating thoughts and insomnia) but it’s often best to work on one thing at a time. I sometimes stop what doesn’t seem to be helping and shift to something else. Based on your description, if I was working with your daughter,I’d focus on tryptophan and then inositol.
Hi Trudy,
Thank you so much for your reply. It helps my anxiety to know that you are out there as a resource. This can all feel very overwhelming.
I will look into switching her multi (to one without copper).
What do you think about the zinc? If she tasted it strongly (spitting it out, gross), should we discontinue the zinc supplement? She is currently taking Thorne Zinc Picolinate (15 mg on top of the multi).
If there was indeed a small shift, should we hold at the current amounts? She did say that she was remembering her dreams a little more.
I saw that you recommend Lidke for Tryptophan. Looks like you recommend just the straight tryptophan (sleep and mood)?
Thanks so much for your help,
Sonia
Sonia
Most people with pyroluria need zinc but it’s possible that it’s not needed. I use zinc challenge plus other signs of low zinc (see the questionnaire) and alk phos <70.
I start low and increase as long as we are seeing improvements.
I have been using Lidtke 500mg Tryptophan for years and love it. I was recently introduced to Lidtke Complete which looks promising but I don't have enough results to 100% endorse it yet https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/tryptophan-500mg-or-tryptophan-complete-lidtke/
Hi Trudy,
Thanks!!
Is there a separate zinc questionnaire? I couldn’t find it, could you share the link?
Just a few more questions:
1. Could the P5P cause tiredness or irritability (or something else in the pyroluria protocol)? Are there any concerns for the liver if you increase (still having poor dream recall)?
2. Is it ok to add tryptophan on top of the pyroluria supplements?
3. Do some people continue to need Omega-3s (together with the Evening Primrose Oil)?
4. Should our multi not have copper in it, even if we are not pyroluric?
5. I have issues with my memory (probably partly due to my anxiety). Would you recommend Ginko Biloba? If yes, what brand?
6. How about Curcumin? I read somewhere that it is better absorbed if it has black pepper (Designs for Health does not). What brand would you recommend?
Sorry! That was more than a few. I am bursting with questions. It is hard to wrap my head around it all!
Thank you,
Sonia
Sonia
The pyroluria questionnaire lists the zinc symptoms https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/pyroluria-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/
1. Could the P5P cause tiredness or irritability (or something else in the pyroluria protocol)? Are there any concerns for the liver if you increase (still having poor dream recall)? tiredness or irritability not common with P5P but anything is possible (stop what you suspect and add back) + no liver concerns that I am aware of;
2. Is it ok to add tryptophan on top of the pyroluria supplements? I have my clients do both protocols no problem, pyroluria supps actually help make serotonin too
3. Do some people continue to need Omega-3s (together with the Evening Primrose Oil)? yes, but often less; depends on diet; fatty acid testing is ideal
4. Should our multi not have copper in it, even if we are not pyroluric? I prefer a copper-free multi since we get so much in our diet
5. I have issues with my memory (probably partly due to my anxiety). Would you recommend Ginko Biloba? If yes, what brand?
6. How about Curcumin? I read somewhere that it is better absorbed if it has black pepper (Designs for Health does not). What brand would you recommend? I haven’t actually compared brands of this product; DFH has a formulation that is also very well absorbed (and yes back pepper has been shown to help too
Thanks again Trudy!
Just wondering about this question.
I have issues with my memory (probably partly due to my anxiety). Would you recommend Ginko Biloba? If yes, what brand?
I saw your info about inflammation and Alzheimers. I have had candida and often wonder about inflammation (my joints and especially my fingers ache lately- I am in my mid-forties). Also, my memory has declined. I have done anti-candida diets and protocol and currently don’t eat sugar or gluten. Do you have recommendations for general inflammation? Would curcumin be helpful for these symptoms?
Thanks,
Sonia
Sonia
Poor memory can be related to many factors – hormone imbalance is one of them, especially low estrogen in menopause. This blog has some nutrients for dementia/cognitive decline and memory https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/nutrients-for-dementia-benzodiazepine-withdrawal/
For inflammation: an anti-inflammatory diet (the autoimmune diet is excellent), fish oil if low in omega-3s, evening primrose oil, ginger, curcumin erc
Hi Trudy,
I just got my Organix Acid Test results and had a question. I tested “Very High”on the 5-Hydroxyindoleacetate and was wondering if that could be because of 5-HTP use. I wasn’t sure if I should discontinue it (I take 100mg at bedtime). If so, would tryptophan have the same potential effect? Or could I use that instead?
Thank you,
Sonia
Sonia
I would recommend checking with the ordering practitioner and have them call the lab. Very high may be too much 5-HTP or tryptophan but can also be due to the effects of medications (pain meds, nasal sprays, Valium, SSRIs etc) and due to intestinal carcinoid tumors along with neuroendocrine tumors. This Mayo page is a good resource http://www.mayomedicallaboratories.com/test-catalog/Clinical+and+Interpretive/9248
Thank you Trudy.
My 13 year old daughter’s OAT test just came back and she has many of the same things (including very high 5-Hydroxyindoleacetate).
Interestingly, we also both have “very low” levels of L-Lactate and undetectable levels of Pyruvate and B-Hydroxybutyrate. I don’t know what that means and am also wondering if that is a common finding with family members.
I am hoping that some of these findings will help determine some root causes of our anxiety.
Thanks,
Sonia
Again I’d check with the ordering doctor. I too hope this helps with finding answers
Hello Trudy,
I was wondering if such a high dose of zinc (30mg) could cause anemia because zinc competes with iron absorbtion?
Thank you!
Hi, where is the quiz ?
may you tell me the link please
Rihan
Here you go http://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/pyroluria-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/
Hi, i answered the questions in a word document. I would like to send it to you so you can look at it.
thank you 🙂
Should i buy the vitamins separate or should i just buy a multivitamin ?
like this https://store.draxe.com/products/mens-organic-multi-vitamin
Thank you:)
Rihan
For pyroluria zinc and vitamin B6 over and above a multi is needed