Earlier this week, on April 16, 2019, the FDA issued warning letters to 3 companies have products that are marketed as dietary supplements with a label saying they contain Phenibut. These companies have been told to stop distribution of the current products and to let the FDA know within 15 days what they plan to do to be compliant with the law.
Quite frankly, I’m surprised it’s taken this long, and I actually agree with the decision. However, there are some major problems that are being overlooked with a decision like this, such as the dire consequences for susceptible individuals currently tapering from Phenibut or needing to do a slow taper once they no longer have access to Phenibut (more on that below).
The good news is that GABA, when used correctly i.e. used sublingually as part of a trial process to find the ideal amount for each person, is as effective and with none of the dependence and withdrawal issues.
Here is the announcement on the FDA site:
Phenibut has been found in products labeled as dietary supplements, sometimes marketed for uses such as a sleep aid. Phenibut does not meet the definition of a dietary ingredient Under the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FD&C Act). Products labeled as dietary supplements that list phenibut as a dietary ingredient are misbranded.
Phenibut is also known as:
- fenibut
- phenigam
- PhGaba
- Phenigamma
- Phenygam
- 4-Amino-3-phenylbutanoic acid
- β-(aminomethyl)benzenepropanoic acid
- beta-(Aminomethyl)hydrocinnamic acid
- β-phenyl-γ-aminobutyric acid
The companies have 15 business days from the date of receipt of the letter to communicate to the agency the specific steps they will take to bring their products into compliance with the law. The warning letters also caution the companies that the FDA may take enforcement action without further notice if they do not immediately cease distribution of the products.
A reaffirmed commitment to traditional advisory and enforcement actions, such as warning letters, in combination with the newly launched rapid-response tool, the Dietary Supplement Ingredient Advisory List, are integral parts of the FDA’s overall effort to strengthen the agency’s regulation and oversight of dietary supplements. We continue to look for ways to modernize our approach to protecting consumers from misbranded, unsafe, or otherwise unlawful dietary supplements.
I have always been very open with my warnings and have never recommended Phenibut because of the dependence issues and the fact that withdrawal can be similar to benzodiazepines. I blogged about my concerns back in 2016: Why I recommend GABA for anxiety instead of Phenibut
Here are a few highlights from this blog:
- I have concerns with Phenibut and I don’t feel anyone should be using it
- It is widely used in Russia as a prescription medication for anxiety, tension, fear, to improve sleep, pre- or post-operatively, depression, post-traumatic stress, stuttering and vestibular disorders
- It’s available over-the-counter and as a supplement in the USA and the UK. It’s no longer available in Australia as a supplement
- It’s very effective for anxiety and insomnia and this is why anxious individuals really love it and many practitioners recommend it before they start to see problems
- One of the reasons Phenibut seems to work so well is because it is so similar to benzodiazepines.
- The adverse effects can be similar to those experienced with benzos. This case study is one of many that report physical dependence can develop, including tolerance and withdrawal
Here are a few more recent case studies, reviews and papers on Phenibut:
- Phenibut exposures and clinical effects reported to a regional poison center (the numbers are small: “56 exposure calls over 19 years with 48 (85.7%) calls within the past five years” but we know not everyone feels the need to call poison control)
- Phenibut (β-Phenyl-γ-Aminobutyric Acid): an Easily Obtainable “Dietary Supplement” With Propensities for Physical Dependence and Addiction
Over the last several years, multiple case reports have highlighted phenibut’s potential to produce the conditions of physical dependence, withdrawal, and addiction. In cases involving intoxication, patients have presented with a varying degree of mental status changes, from being minimally responsive to manifesting symptoms of an agitated delirium. Phenibut is a potent psychoactive substance with GABAB agonist properties, which is emerging as a drug of misuse through growing internet sales. Its marketing as a “dietary supplement” is inaccurate and misleading, given its pharmacological profile and ability to induce the physiological changes associated with withdrawal and physical dependence
- Acute phenibut withdrawal: A comprehensive literature review and illustrative case report . In many of the published cases “Patients were typically younger and had coexisting substance abuse disorders to other drugs” but based on feedback I’ve had from folks in my community and elsewhere this is certainly not the case across the board. However it may be that prior benzodiazepine or fluoroquinolone use may play a role in individuals being more susceptible to issues.
- Phenibut (β-Phenyl-γ-Aminobutyric Acid) Psychosis. This case study was a situation of recreational abuse but even so it shows how severe symptoms can be.
I see no reason to use a product like Phenibut given the potential to cause harm and because GABA (when used correctly i.e. used sublingually as part of a trial process to find the ideal amount for each person) is as effective and with none of the dependence and withdrawal issues.
Phenibut: initially very promising results and then rebound anxiety, panic and insomnia
I’d like to share a story from someone in my community who posted on the 2016 blog above. He shared this about the addictive aspects he observed when he used a Phenibut product called GABA Wave, saying his initial reaction was very positive and quite extreme compared to his previous trials of GABA:
The initial response in the first couple of weeks was great, especially a couple of hours after taking it. The effects were a marked elevation in mood to the point of euphoria, enhanced appreciation for music, improved focus and cognition initially (but that became memory difficulty), marked relief of anxiety, increased motivation, renewed interest in things, being more talkative, a significant calming/relaxation effect, generally a deep and great night’s sleep the night of the morning it is taken.
He then shares how this changed after a few weeks with rebound insomnia, panic and anxiety, and other adverse symptoms:
However, after a few weeks it was the reaction on the following day of taking it that kicked me in the butt, literally. On the following day I began to feel very low, groggy and spaced out, almost like a hangover and then during the following night I began having brutal insomnia – a complete turn-around from the night before. A kind of rebound response. I imagine that’s when the tolerance and addiction begins to develop because one craves the next dose to provide the good night’s sleep after the bad sleep on the second night. Other side effects included mood swings, irritability, rebound anxiety, panic, loss of short-term memory, total and utter loss of any form of libido and constipation!
He shared that his diet and self-care are excellent, but he is dealing with and working past emotional and psychological traumas – and this may make him more susceptible to the adverse effects.
And this is one of the problems with Phenibut – you’ll hear excellent initial reports and for some people this continues. Not everyone is adversely affected but you just don’t know in advance if you will be someone who is adversely affected or just how badly you’ll be affected.
Merry has had very severe ongoing adverse effects from Phenibut.
Merry Citoli shares her warnings about benzodiazepine, lunesta and Phenibut withdrawal
Merry Citoli shares her warnings about benzodiazepine, lunesta and Phenibut withdrawal. Lunesta and then Phenibut were recommended to help her taper from the benzodiazepine she was prescribed for perimenopausal anxiety. At the time of this recording, she had tapered off the benzo and lunesta, but was having great difficulties tapering off Phenibut – almost as bad as her benzo taper.
You can learn more about Merry on Follow Your Bliss. She shares how cathartic it is to share her story and the desire to help stop others going through what she has been through. I’d like to acknowledge Merry for doing this (and all of you for sharing your stories and posting encouraging messages here on the blog for each other).
I’d also like to give a shout out to the Benzodiazepine Information Coalition who is doing amazing advocacy and educational work about these awful medications.
The comments in my 2016 blog: Why I recommend GABA for anxiety instead of Phenibut are worth a read if this affects you. You’ll see there are some very different thoughts on Phenibut safety and folks saying GABA won’t work. This is typical of what you can expect to hear elsewhere online.
I don’t have all the answers
I know many Phenibut users are going to be very concerned about this and we’ll be dealing with many withdrawal issues and folks looking for an alternative. I recognize that this is not going to be easy if there is no Phenibut available for tapering. There are also very serious concerns for those who can’t go cold-turkey off Phenibut and won’t have the time to taper. Abrupt discontinuation of Phenibut may result in withdrawal which can be severe and require hospitalization.
What I don’t know:
- if other companies and products will be targeted too?
- if Phenibut will be made available as prescription in some form or another?
- what resources are in place or going to be put in place for individuals who are in the process for trying to taper from Phenibut right now (or if there is even the awareness that this is an issue and very needed? For people like Merry, cold-turkeying off Phenibut could be life-threatening)
- what advocacy groups and benzo support groups know and what advice do they have?
- what my colleagues know and are planning to do?
- why so many practitioners recommended it and why so many companies made it available as a supplement, given the research/case studies and the issues so many individuals report?
- if there will be a place to submit concerns and complaints?
What I do know – GABA and the foundations
Give GABA serious consideration for safe and comfortable tapering (assuming there is enough Phenibut to do slow tapers) and for ongoing support of the low GABA symptoms of physical anxiety and tension.
It’s really best that you work with your practitioner. As with a benzodiazepine, before starting a Phenibut taper, I’ve always found it’s best to get nutritionally stable as possible first and address all root causes of anxiety before starting to taper and then tapering Phenibut very very very slowly. For some folks it’s just very uncomfortable for a few weeks and for others it’s a long-term ordeal.
I use GABA sublingually after an initial trial to find the ideal amount for each person. I have found that for both a benzo and Phenibut taper, very very tiny amounts (like a pinch or dab) will be enough for some folks.
Other nutrients are used based on each person’s need – such as theanine, tryptophan, melatonin, niacinamide, zinc and vitamin B6 and others. Light therapy, exercise, yoga, meditation, getting out in nature and essential oils like lavender, citrus and jasmine are also wonderful to incorporate. Of course, diet, blood sugar control and gut health are the foundation.
These are various GABA products I use. You can find some examples on my supplements blog here:
- Source Naturals GABA Calm (with additional information here)
- Nutritional Fundamentals for Health GABA-T SAP: gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) 300 mg, l-theanine 150 mg. This is pleasant-tasting when opened on to the tongue and works very well when GABA Calm can’t be used. I find best results when it is used opened on to the tongue.
- Enzymatic Therapy GABA: gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) 250 mg. This is also pleasant-tasting when opened on to the tongue and works very well when GABA Calm can’t be used. As with all GABA products, I find best results when it is used opened on to the tongue.
- ProThera 500mg GABA: gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) 500 mg. You will likely need to open this up and start with less than a full capsule during the day. A full capsule may be fine at night for some individuals.
They can all be purchased from my online store here.
As you can see, I don’t have all the answers about this FDA announcement, but I wanted to share what I do know so you are aware of what’s going on.
In the next few weeks I’m going to be reaching out to benzodiazepine groups, colleagues, the companies affected and individuals who are in the process for trying to taper from Phenibut. As I learn more, I’ll share what I learn.
In the meantime, please post questions you may have, and I’ll do my best to either answer them now or find answers for you.
And please do share your Phenibut stories (both good and bad), your concerns, and any resources you may have.
And do share if GABA has help you taper from Phenibut.
Thank you so much for sharing!! I was taking Kavinace PM nightly for ~5-6 mos. I noticed when I stopped taking it (i.e. randomly skipping a night) that I felt terrible the next day. Extremely panicked and depressed, not like myself. To be honest, I did not know that Phenibut was in it since it was listed as 4-Amino-3-phenylbutanoic acid. Once I found that out (luckily I’m a bit of a research-a-holic ;p), I knew that I wanted to get off of it. (I’m already on a mild dose of benzodiazepines during the day and do not want something else like that in my life.)
I began to take it every other night, and am now down to every 3rd night. I do notice on the days after I take it, I feel groggy and a bit nauseous. The capsule contains an unspecified amount of 4-Amino-3-phenylbutanoic acid combined with 5-HTP and 3mg of Melatonin so it would be difficult for me to ascertain exactly how to taper the Phenibut itself. So, my next step will be every 4th night, then every 5th, and so on… hopefully I can get enough to last and that will work.
Meanwhile, I have found Douglas Labs’ Sublingual Melatonin to be more effective for sleep. I take 2mg of that on the “break” nights. I wish I knew how to taper the actual Phenibut, but as I said the actual amount is unknown. I also wish that it had said Phenibut on the label instead of 4-Amino-3-phenylbutanoic acid. I would not have chosen to take it if it had been listed clearly.
Jaime
Thanks for sharing. What you describe is common: “Extremely panicked and depressed, not like myself”. Glad to hear the sublingual melatonin is helping. There are some promising studies showing melatonin helps benzo tapering so we can hopefully extrapolate to Phenibut too. I’ve certainly seen it to help my clients. I would suggest working with the practitioner who recommended it as this taper plan may not be slow enough. I also use adjust the melatonin up and use GABA with my tapering clients, together with all the dietary and other changes mentioned above.
I’m trying to figure out why some people are more susceptible to adverse effects. Current or prior benzo use may be a factor and you fit that criteria. Also, prior or current SSRI and/or fluoroquinolone antibiotic use, and/or birth control may be a factor too – do any of these apply?
Hi Trudy,
First off, thank you again so much. I really admire what you’re doing and am grateful. This will be long, but I will help answer your questions as best I can.
I am coming out of 12 years of chronic illness caused by a “perfect storm” of events (mold + tick bite + botched oral surgery). Beyond that, I’ve suffered from anxiety most of my life. I was Rx’ed benzos for about 14 years, with very high dosages prescribed for a few years. I came off of them in 2016. I started taking smaller doses of Rx benzos again about a year ago bc of severe panic/agoraphobia. That said, comparably I’m on a pretty low dose.
I do not currently take birth control or SSRIs, though I have in the past. Last took birth control in my early-mid 20’s. I’m 35 now. I have been taking bio identical Progesterone for almost a year. SSRIs drove me crazy with mania. Coming off of them was very difficult as well with brain zaps. Haven’t touched those since my mid-20’s. Haven’t had antibiotics in a couple of years, but had heavy usage throughout my life before that. I’m not sure about the exact type you mentioned.
Removed processed sugars and gluten along with the heavy doses of multiple pharmaceuticals 2.5 years ago. I slip up every now and then w diet, but for the most part it’s been a strong lifestyle change. I have done some work to repair my gut health. I suspect I still have nutritional deficiencies due to genetics. (Dr. Dan Purser has some good info on cellular deficiencies caused by genetics, including a lab test “Spectracell”.) I am hopeful about the field of epigenetics and neuroplasticity and have been studying brain retraining off and on for the past year or so (Annie Hopper/DNRS, Gupta, etc…).
In regards to tapering:
The practitioner who recommended Kavinace does not seem to know much about this side of it, unfortunately. I gather that most people do not experience such negative effects.
I have now done two cycles of taking Kavinace every 4th night. I realized last night that it has some weird side effects for me like intense RLS, tension, irritability & insomnia. I did not like the feeling. These seem to last into the 2nd night after dosing. Benadryl also gives me severe RLS. I’ve had RLS throughout my life so it’s not something I’d like to exacerbate. This makes me want to just stop the Kavinace totally, but I’m scared about withdrawal effects.
I would love to try Gaba again to see if it helps me in general and with the Phenibut withdrawal. I have taken gaba in the past but that was in my teenage years and I don’t remember it helping much. It sounds like it wasn’t it the right form (capsule) and that sublingual/emptying the capsule onto the tongue is the way to go. I am thinking of trying the Enzymatic Therapy Gaba 250mg capsule to start. I have l-theanine + Melatonin available as well. And I’ll just stick w my usual dose of benzos during the daytime, as that seems to work.
Hello,
Wanted to send an update on my situation. The sublingual Melatonin (Douglas Labs) did help, and continues to do so. I started with 3mg because that’s how much was in the Kavinace PM. I’m now taking 1-2mg a night.
Something that I discovered that actually really helped is Milky Oat Seed. It has a history of being very helpful in cases of withdrawals. It helped with RLS and mood quite a bit.
I was able to get in with a naturopath who knows more about things like Benzo withdrawals, and am working towards healing my brain from all of this. The Phenibut withdrawals really seemed to trigger something in me, similar to what I went through after coming off of extremely high doses of benzos in the past. I do think I’m still going through some withdrawals, but it’s much more manageable at this point.
I’m beginning on 5htp soon (my serotonin levels tested low on an OAT lab), and am taking a specially formulated tincture with Milky Oat Seed, Kava, Skullcap, Poppy and Lavender. For anyone who doesn’t have access to something like this though, the Milky Oat Seed alone was very helpful. By the 2nd or 3rd day I felt more like myself. When I’d wake up in the middle of the night with insomnia and RLS I’d take 40-50 drops and be able to get back to sleep. Very thankful to have found that!
Jaime
Thanks for sharing about the Milky Oat Seed and melatonin helping.
And yes the withdrawals from benzos and phenibut are very similar
Oh, also – I did try the sublingual Gaba. It immediately took away the Phenibut withdrawals, however I felt very sleepy on just a smidgeon of the powder. I wasn’t able to get ahold of anyone who knew if it was okay to take that while on Xanax, so I didn’t take it more than a few times.
I also took Suntheanine 100mg once or twice a day, but I am not sure that I was taking enough to tell a difference.
Trudy, thank you so much for your warnings about phenibut. I have had 3 different practitioners recommend it for insomnia. It worked great at first and then the withdrawal was horrific. None of them said there was even a hint of caution to using it. You are the only one who said not to use it and you were so right! GABA and tryptophan and melatonin helped with sleep, and the GABA definitely helped with the withdrawal from the Phenibut. Thanks for your good work!
Lorraine
You’re most welcome and so glad to hear “GABA and tryptophan and melatonin helped with sleep, and the GABA definitely helped with the withdrawal from the Phenibut.”
Would you be willing to share more about your experiences with Phenibut? How it helped initially and what do you mean by the horrific withdrawal? What product were you using and how much? How did you use GABA to withdraw and how quick was that process?
I’m also trying to figure out why so many people have had these issues and would love to know if you had prior or current use of benzodiazepines, SSRIs or fluoroquinolone antibiotics and/or birth control pill?
I’m also reaching out to colleagues to find out who have had concerns and not recommended it. It amazes me that so many folks like you have had issues and yet so many practitioners say they’ve never seen it to be an issue. Did you let these 3 different practitioners know about your experiences? Perhaps practitioners are not being told about the bad results?
I have taken phenibut for many years with very good results. You have to be disciplined when you take phenibut. You can’t take it every day because of the quick tolerance. This information is widely available on the internet. If you don’t take it every day and not in huge quantities then it seems to be one of the best and safest options to deal with anxiety and depression. Taking phenibut off the market abrubtly will cause much suffering for many sensitive individuals that have been helped by it, probably many suicides etc. This is a criminal act. I have experiences also with phenibut as a prescription drug. As a prescription drug it didn’t seem half as effective and it seemed to have serious side effects due to other harmful components that they put in there to form prescription tablets from the pure powder.
I have also used GABA for years. I liked it very much but it seemed that my body is slowly developing a permanent tolerance for GABA – no positive effect anymore, only a nasty skin itching side effect, even if there has been a long pause in taking it. So there is no phenibut alternative for me. To me, there is a vast difference between benzos and phenibut, they are not comparable at all. Benzos make you numb and reduce cognitive abilities by damaging your brain, phenibut makes you smarter and happier and I think has brain healing properties. The only thing is that you need to be disciplined with phenibut and not take it every day. I don’t see any good coming out of Big Pharma gaining control over everything except coffee and alcohol that are not prescription drugs for suspicious reasons and not for the benefit of people.
Charles
Thanks for contributing to the discussion. I agree, we can’t really compare benzos to phenibut other than they have similar dependence and withdrawal issues, and help with anxiety and insomnia – initially. I too have grave concerns for those who will need to taper without access to phenibut.
For too many people using discipline is not an option given that it creates physical dependence in so many folks due to genetics and/or nutritional deficiencies and/or prior use of benzos, SSRIs or fluoroquinolones.
I don’t expect anyone to need GABA or phenibut long term provided all the dietary and underlying nutritional factors, gut health etc are addressed.
I am curious about the skin itching and no positive effect of GABA – may I ask what product causes this and how much? Were you using it sublingually and for physical anxiety and tension?
And I’d love to hear how you have used phenibut – dosage and frequency and how it’s helped you?
Charles. Thank you for smart response.
There are so many well vetted studies that state the opposite in this site. The people who are having problems with it have plethora of medical symptoms that may or may Not be related to it.
Thank you for the sensible post. If GABA worked well thousands of people would take it in place of Benzodiazepines. Phenibut in Kavinace has consistent positive results for thousands who use it in place of xanex which also provides the ability to taper of all benzo’a as well. Unless one is a holistic MD or a biologist commenting on this supplement is dangerous. There are studies that show it regulates the immune system. Where is this portion is study on your site? I rest my case.
Literally what are you talking about, phenibut isn’t going anywhere… they told 3 companies that they couldn’t call products containing phenibut dietary supplements. How you took that to mean that they were taking away everyone’s phenibut is beyond me. Furthermore, comparing phenibut to benzodiazepines is just straight up bad information, as it has little to no gabaA agonism, and hardly even has any gabaB agonism. Most of it’s effects are produced by its calcium channel blocking which is where gaba analogs of the gabapentinoid class derive their effects, of which phenibut is a card carrying member. After recently trying phenibut I can attest to the fact it feels exactly like gabapentin without any of gabapentins ridiculous absorption and insta-tolerance issues. It feels nothing like the gabaB gabas like Baclofen or ghb. And it certainly doesn’t feel anything like any benzodiazepine. You spent half of your article that was based on a false premise (that you still have not corrected) speculating about how people are going to taper off something that isn’t going anywhere and about how you seem to think taking gaba sublingually somehow makes it cross the blood brain barrier while giving your affiliate link for people to buy GABA, which along with no correction to your hyper – accurate reporting leads me to believe you know full well what you are doing. Your benzodiazepine alarmism and shilling for gaba under the guise of “expertise” gave me a good laugh though, and I’ll be suprised if you actually allow this post to go/stay up. I did feel the need to try to inject a little bit of actual truth into the downright scary view of the world you’ve presented here. Benzodiazepines are not literally the devil and phenibut withdrawal is just like any other similar acting compounds, which happens to have more in common with coming off of SSRI’s than anything relating to benzos. Taking gaba alone regardless of route of administration (including directly injecting it into your veins) at a normal dose by itself doesn’t cause any withdrawal symptoms because *spoiler alert* it doesn’t cross the blood brain barrier. And if you do get it to cross via mass doses or taking potentiators you will certainly be having dependency and withdrawal issues if stopped abruptly.
Im12andwhatisthis
I welcome all feedback, both negative and positive. I just ask that commenters are polite and professional.
Kindly refer to this paper shared on the blog – Phenibut (β-Phenyl-γ-Aminobutyric Acid): an Easily Obtainable “Dietary Supplement” With Propensities for Physical Dependence and Addiction https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11920-019-1009-0 and the excerpt I share. Notice this: “Phenibut is a potent psychoactive substance with GABA B agonist properties.” I share other references and you have feedback from folks commenting.
I do appreciate you sharing your personal experiences as to how phenibut compares with gabapentin, Baclofen, ghb and benzodiazepines. Fortunately I don’t have personal experience with any of these but have many clients and folks in my community who have reported serious issues when prescribed gabapentin, Baclofen and benzodiazepines, as well as phenibut and SSRIs.
I share the GABA products I have found to be most effective with my clients so this helps others seeking solutions and makes life easier for them. Folks can purchase from my online store or elsewhere.
I encourage you to read the latest research on GABA and it’s effectiveness – you’ll be surprised to see it’s not all about the BBB anymore – that’s old news. I cover some of this in 2016 on one of The Anxiety Summits https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/gaba-blood-brain-barrier-trial-anxiety/ and have blogged extensively and presented internationally about this since then. Feel free to search the blog.
Since you mention “phenibut isn’t going anywhere” please do share more about this aspect. I’m always open to learning new information
Although I do encourage anon posting on my blog for sensitive issues and respect the desire to remain private, I do feel your feedback regarding the medical claims may be seen as more valuable if you were a “real” person. Perhaps you could share your profession or where you learned this instead? Or feel free to share some links to papers.
Hi Trudy!
I came across your blog today as I was looking up information on Facebook regarding phenibut to contribute to my own blog which recently recounted my own horror story with phenibut. I’ll share my link here in the comments with your community as I’ve become a voice and an advocate against the use of phenibut in the United States. Take a look and you’ll understand why.
Best Regards!
~Bryan Zubler
(Bryan With a “Why?”) Facebook Blogger
https://m.facebook.com/groups/1200507240112052?view=permalink&id=1200620366767406
*or* if that fails to open, here is the text:
THE HIDDEN DANGERS OF PHENIBUT
EDIT: Before you read, know this- I am not bashing phenibut, I’m simply passing along my story of overusing and dependency, which led to a pretty messed up ending. I put myself in this situation, and by no means am I suggesting that this will happen if you take phenibut. I’m suggesting it could happen.
I began using phenibut in 2015 after my online kratom supplier began to distribute it. I researched, and I liked what it promoted for it’s anti-anxiety and sleep aid properties. Problems I’ve struggled with for years. I was assured by my supplier that phenibut was perfectly safe if taken in smaller doses and not every day. Safe as coffee, I was told.
So I began as recommended, small doses of 500mg every other day. It seemed like a miracle drug for my anxiety and insomnia. It worked every bit as well as ativan or xanax had before in the past, but I had more energy and didn’t need a prescription. I slept soundly and no longer needed to take ambien, a sleep aid that I hated. But I quickly developed a tolerance, and after awhile I was taking about 4 to 5 times the recommended dose every day to achieve the same desired effect. Everything seemed to be going ok, until it wasn’t.
My last week on phenibut was a blackout. No memory of it. My wife said that I was kind of in a drunken state, but functional. I’m not a drinker. I drove. I went about my day. I worked. I took my dogs on their morning and nightly walks. I even set up a meeting with a girl from our insurance agency and met with her at my house to choose a policy. No memory of this whatsoever. Total amnesia.
My last day on phenibut my wife found me in the bathroom after she went to the basement to grab the laundry and noticed a ton of water leaking through the ceiling. I had been sitting naked on the tub for about 6 hours. I wouldn’t let her in. I kept repeating “I’m ok, I’m ok, I’m ok”. She knew that something was very wrong and called 911.
The first to arrive were the police, and I somehow barricaded the door. Then the paramedics arrived and eventually they broke down the door. I sat naked on the tub, with two inches of water on the floor from the sink overflowing. Repeating, “I’m ok, I’m ok”. Still no memory.
The paramedics put a blanket around me and led me to the ambulance. They kept asking my wife where I kept my drugs and thought that I had overdosed on opiates, which I don’t use. I punched a paramedic in the ambulance and had to be restrained.
At the hospital I was incoherent, yelling “mom-mom-mom” over and over. I then began to recite my phone number super quick and wouldn’t stop. I got combative with one of the nurses and they put me in restraints, which I ripped out of. They doubled up the restraints, which held. Finally restrained they were able to draw blood. I was in a complete state of psychosis, but I had to wait for the bloodwork to come back before being sedated. The doctor wanted to be cautious until he could see if I had any type of narcotics in me. The bloodwork came back normal and the doctor ordered a benzodiazepine to be run through my IV to calm me down.
I’m still double strapped to the gurney and they ran a scan of my brain. I was having 30 plus silent seizures per hour. After a CT and an MRI they still could not figure what was wrong and the seizures continued. The doctor ordered a stronger sedation which put me into an induced coma. I was intubated and put on life support.
I was taken from the ER to ICU for twenty four hour observation and remained intubated and on life support for the next four days. On day four the tubes were removed. It was a struggle at first but I could finally breath on my own. I was very confused and disoriented as I regained consciousness, and the first thing I noticed was my wife in the room. I didn’t believe her when she tried to explain what happened, where we were, and why I was there. I got angry with her because I thought she was lying to me and couldn’t figure out why she’d make a story like this up. thought she was lying to me and making this story up.
As I listened to my wife try to explain what happened the nurse came into the room and began to ask me questions. I couldn’t tell her where I was, why I was there, what hospital I was in, what year it was, who the president was, and what my address was. I had trouble forming words and was displaying the behaviors of a stroke victim. I couldn’t keep my balance, and I was very confused. This lasted for a couple more days and they finally moved me from the ICU to step down room. After 6 days in the hospital I finally had enough cognitive function to know what happened, where I was, who the president was, etc. But I still had no memory whatsoever of the entire incident, nor the week leading up to it.
I was visited by three neurosurgeons who all had a different hypothesis of what happened. The first one said it was a combination of different prescription meds that I had been taking building up to toxic levels in my brain and mimicking a stroke. The prescriptions were Ambien, Gabapentin, and Tizanidine. The second doctor said it must have been an allergic reaction to the Tizanidine, a muscle relaxer I had been prescribed four days prior to my hospitalization after a fall on the ice. And the last doctor theorized that it was an LSD flashback, from using it twenty five plus years ago in college. The last one was kind of ridiculous, but I did get a chuckle out of it and realized that the doctors were grasping at straws. Not one of them questioned that it might be the phenibut even aftet my wife had explained to them the extent of my use.
The attending physician wrote on my discharge summary that I had an allergic reaction to the Tizanidine. I told the doctor that I’ve been prescribed Tizanidine several times in the past with zero adverse effects and I felt that it must have been the phenibut. She noted that on my chart and released me with orders to follow up with my primary doctor.
When I got back home the first thing I did was flush the phenibut down the toilet. It took quite a bit of effort to readjust, and I still didn’t have full control of my speech or words until about day ten. That was around the time I went to visit my primary doctor. I explained the entire situation to him and he said that he didn’t know too much about phenibut, but insisted it wouldn’t cause a reaction so severe. He noted “allergic to Tizanidine” in my chart, and to this day will not prescribe it. It felt as though I was the only one who knew this whole thing was caused by the phenibut.
I got on line and contacted my nootropic vendor. I explained what had happened and he insisted that it must have been something else that the doctors failed to catch. He’d never heard of anything so drastic happening from phenibut and continued to insist that it’s safe as coffee. I still see people on his Facebook site with questions and orders for phenibut quite often. When I posted this story to his group and he immediately blocked me.
There is still not a huge amount of reliable information online about phenibut. There are a few personal testimonials like this. A handful of doctor summaries and a couple of nightmarish endings. There are a group of advocates who swear by phenibut. They reaffirm my original reason for seeking it out. It does work for anxiety and sleep disorders. There are another group of advocates who like the phenibut high. It’s similar to a benzodiazepine or opiate like sedation, with a very long lasting euphoria. Then there are the stories about the brutal withdrawal and dependency.
I’ve only seen a couple of other accounts about people developing amnesia from the drug, but nothing to the extent of mine. Phenibut is actually suppose to reduce the amnesia like effects from alcohol. The more I’ve searched I’ve found a couple of people who have gone through a psychosis and hospitalization like I had. There stories were similar to mine, and ended in intubation and life support along with an extended hospital stay.
There have been no reported death from phenibut, but I question this number based on the lack of knowledge that most doctors seem to have. It’s also very difficult to detect. I’m guessing that a fair amount of people die from causes unknown after being rushed to an emergency room, if they’re fortunate enough to make it there at all.
I’m sharing my experience not to scare people from taking phenibut, but to teach others what could happen if you misuse it. Before this incident I was a huge advocate, and I truly felt this was some kind of wonder drug that could safely treat my long standing battle with anxiety and insomnia. It was something that used to be sold over the counter at GNC, so it had to be safe. It’s even marketed as a “smart drug”, and used to be given to Russian Cosmonauts back in the 1960’s shortly after it was created.
I hope that nobody ever has to go through what I went through. Phenibut is not a safe supplement, and it is not replacement therapy to prescribed pharmaceuticals. I feel that it should be illegal unless prescribed and supervised by a physician. I would caution anybody who samples or begins phenibut or any sort of nootropic regiment, or “stack” as some advocates call it. They can be dangerous in dosing, high in dependency, create a withdrawal, and go unregulated and unsupervised. What I first thought to be a safe and amazing alternative for anxiety and insomnia turned out to be a sleeping giant which almost cost me my life.
Bryan
Thanks for sharing your phenibut story – I hope you’re doing better now. It’s important to get stories like this out. Many of the published case studies on adverse effects of phenibut have many similarities to yours and I have to wonder how many people have had similar experiences, with it never being attributed to phenibut. You mention you’ve come across a couple of people with similar stories but I suspect the number is high given how popular this product is. I also agree with your observation about the “lack of knowledge that most doctors seem to have.”
I’d like to address this comment of yours: “I put myself in this situation.” Phenibut is like a benzodiazepine and no one should blame themselves for getting into a situation like this. That what phenibut and benzos lead to – tolerance so more and more is required more frequently in order to give symptom relief. I can also see why folks are so attracted to something like this that does work so well initially. When you’re sleep-deprived and anxiety-ridden and desperate for answers it seems to be a very attractive solution.
Now if we can just get more folks knowledgeable about how to use GABA (properly) and the other anxiety nutrition solutions I teach about then we’re addressing root cause/s and are not creating new problems and causing harm.
I’m trying to figure out why some people are more susceptible to adverse effects. Current or prior benzo use may be a factor and you fit that criteria. Also, prior or current SSRI or fluroquinolone antibiotic use may be a factor too – do either of these apply?
Thank you Trudy. This was a couple years ago and I’m doing much better now. After reading your blog I’m going to have to do my homework on GABA and see if that might be a good fit for me.
As for phenibut, the most difficult thing for me with was not really doing my homework on it beforehand. And although my online distributer had told me about spacing the dosage out between days, he had never mentioned the tolerance build up if I didn’t, and he most certainly never mentioned how dangerous it could be if took too much. I should have gotten the hint when a lot of his kratom regulars left his Facebook group at the onset of him carrying phenibut. And anybody who posted anything negative about phenibut on his Facebook page was blocked, which tells me he was more in it to make a profit than anything else. So before I knew it my dependence on phenibut was beyond my control and I was taking too much too often.
I wasn’t taking any SSRI’s or antibiotics at the time, but I was taking Gabapentin on occasion as needed for neuropathy pain, as well as Tizanidine, or Zaniflex, for muscle pain. The onset of the amnesia seemed to coincide with when I began the Tizanidine.
The amnesia is what really confused me. I was completely functional days be the psychosis set in, but I remember none of it. After getting out of the hospital I had told my wife that I s still needed to find s healthcare provider without ever remembering I had already found and met with one. Completely functioning, but no memory of it.
It is something that scared me enough to never touch again. And I will continue to share my nightmare associated with phenibut until the FDA makes it a regulated drug, as I wish that somebody would have shared their experience with me.
Thanks for educating your customers as well,
~Bryan Zubler
Bryan
It may well have been a combination of the the meds and phenibut. Gabapentin is an anticonvulsant ….”Our study confirmed an association between memory disorders and some drugs, such as benzodiazepines and anticonvulsants” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3244635/ I don’t know much about tizanidine but there are reports of amnesia on druginformer.com https://www.druginformer.com/search/side_effect_details/Tizanidine%20Hydrochloride/amnesia.html
Hi Trudy,
Thank you for reaching out to me. This is such good news, and in other ways not so good news. I filed a complaint with the FDA two years ago about Phenibut that I had assumed fell on deaf ears, but apparently I wasn’t the only one. The problem is that now people trying to taper will not have access to this drug to taper and could go into cold turkey withdrawal. I’m unfortunately one of those people. I started tapering from phenibut over two years ago and I’m down from 666 mg to about 130 mg. I hope to god I’m going to have enough left to taper off the rest of this crap. Unfortunately, the FDA goes from one extreme to the other when it comes to regulation.
To make matters worse, I had to slow down on the taper again because the stress of the last decade due to tapering off these other horrible drugs, losing my businesses and livelihood caused me to develop cervical cancer. I have had seven blood transfusions since December.
The tumor was too big to operate, so I had no choice but to do radiation therapy. It stopped the bleeding, but spread the cancer throughout my body and completely fried my right hip and pelvic area. I can hardly walk on my right leg now. Like most people, alternative therapies were out of my reach financially since I get so little on SSDI and my V.A. benefits have been denied twice now. I was in and out of the hospital twice and these people are
completely clueless about benzo damage and just keep throwing more drugs at you. A friend of mine finally stepped forward to help me pay for an integrative cancer specialist which isn’t cheap and he can’t do it for very long, but this guy is amazing and I have regained some hope that I had lost after this long journey of damage from prescriptions drugs. These drug companies should be tried for crimes to humanity, and I won’t stop until I see justice for myself and the millions of other lives they have destroyed.
At present I have a Go Fund Me campaign to help me with living and medical expenses. At present I don’t know where my rent is coming from for May. If you wouldn’t mind sharing the link to your community, I would appreciate it.
https://www.gofundme.com/merry039s-pick-me-up-fundraiser
One of the other things I am working on is a nutrition guide that I wrote to help people with diet
https://www.followyourblissfoundation.org/single-post/2019/02/08/Merrys-2255-Easy-Universal-Nutritional-Guide People can donate to our cause there and it helps with keeping out website up and overhead. The guide is a series of videos on low sugar, low glycemic foods and some really great healthy recipes that I developed that can be used for Paleo, Keto, Vegan or Vegetarians. The goal is to help get people off sugar and step closer to a better way of eating. I’m hoping to market the recipes to organic vegan restaurants throughout the country as a way to raise money for our work.
I have made the last round for a grant from The Warren Buffet Foundation that could help me get this project up and running a little further, because if we don’t get BIG PHARMA out of running our healthcare, many more people and especially our children will be damaged from all of these drugs. I was the healthiest person on the face of the planet until I took several rounds of antibiotics back in the late 80’s before they knew about how they damage the gut flora. I was practically a triathlete. The financial loss is exponential, but the loss of my career has been heartbreaking.
The blog is really great news for me, and thank you for sharing our link. I appreciate the work you are doing in this area. We need MANY voices in the area for things to change. Let me know if you have any questions, or if I can be of any further service to your organization.
In Oneness,
Merry Citoli
Merry
I agree, good news and not so good news about phenibut. My hope and objective is that many individuals can use the anxiety nutrition solutions I educate about. GABA and many of the other nutrients I mention in the blog make such a difference, as do dietary changes – for prevention of anxiety, for easing existing anxiety and for helping with benzo/phenibut tapering – so I’m pleased you’re educating about sugar (and thanks for sharing that resource).
I’m so sorry to hear about your cervical cancer but I’m glad to hear you are getting this support. I’m sure you’re also aware there is a higher risk of cancer with benzo use https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27667780 which is yet another reason for individuals to use a nutritional approach.
Thanks again for sharing your journey via your video and FollowYourBliss Foundation. I look forward to learning more about your future projects, wish you success with grant from The Warren Buffet Foundation and continued healing.
Merry. I’ve started a national phenibut support group that is also going after companies disregarding FDA warnings and selling phenibut simply to make a buck on people they’ve hooked. Are you interested in helping? Email me at bzubler2000@gmail.com
If you are. We could use your help.
Bryan
Yes Brian, I am absolutely interested in going after companies. I have my own horror story with phenibut although I was taking what I thought was an amino acid given to me by my naturopathic physician as a sleep aid.
The compound was invented 40 years ago and sold by prescription only. The risks are well known and these companies circumvented the disclosure laws by selling it as a “dietary supplement.” I personally think a class action suit is in order. I will email you as well.
I have not read all of the relevant studies but am aware that phenibut is dangerous for some, especially in large doses, and that some have difficulty discontinuing it. I question, however, the extrapolation from limited data to the general population. I have taken Kavinace for about six years. It is true that it is not as effective as it was at first but it still improves sleep maintenance as no other substance has but for Ativan, .25 mg of which I take sparingly, i..e., once a week. I am also aware of the many other supplements used for sleep, including L-tryptohan, which for me is somewhat helpful, melatonin, not at all but for jet lag, and GABA not at all. Cortisol-lowering supplements seem useful for periods, rare, thank goodness, when I wake up in the wee hours and cannot resume sleep. I have discontinued Kavinace periodically without severe problems. I found a source which for the moment is selling GABA Complex, which includes phenibut but also other well-known sleep supplements and which works as well as Kavinace.
What is the product that you like that had gaba complex and phenibut?
GABA Complex by Natural Creations – also no longer made. I am slowly discontinuing. It as well. Sorry for delayed answer, do not read this blog often.
It is GABA Complex by Natural Creations, also no longer made. I have a few things to say, posted below, in answer to Amy.
I contacted Trudy a few years back to alert her to the perils of phenibut and thankfully she has been researching and reporting on it since. I began using Kavinace based on the company’s claims that it was a GABA like derivative and crossed the blood brain barrier, promoting better sleep. From my research I understood it originated in Russia, was used widely and successfully as well as in Europe, by prescription. That a ‘script was not needed in the US was a red flag I ignored, for sleep sake. Initially I felt better in the daytime experiencing higher energy and elevated mood, and a little improvement with sleep. I had been dealing with chronic Lyme for years so any improvement was welcome. Because of Lyme my adrenals were shot and so was libido. After several weeks on Kavinace I started feeling sexually turned on all the time….for no reason, and then needed increased dose to achieve the same benefits to energy, mood and sleep, which also increased the unwanted sexual affects.
I started researching again, discovered the benzodiazepine connection and realized I had developed a dependence including tolerance, and experienced withdrawal symptoms unless the dose increased.
This was compounded by the Klonapin (benzo) my LL doctor had prescribed as “the mildest of meds, so gentle it’s like a supplement” for Lyme induced brain inflammation. The phenibut was acting just like the Klonapin and I was reacting and stuck. I sought the care of a new Integrative physician to support my weaning off both and began the process of titrating slowly from them. It took 2 years to accomplish.
It stunned me to witness the explosion of its sales in the supplement market and the push for it at health related conferences, and suddenly several companies sold a product and thousands of practitioners were ‘educated’ on its use for sleep, anxiety and depression. Everyone was desperate to help sleep.
Thank you Trudy for all you do to provide and promote responsible research, information and resources.
Paula
I’m sorry you had to go through this and were so misinformed by your practitioners. Sadly it’s very common.
I feel the same way you do – shocked that so many companies were promoting it and so many natural health practitioners were recommending it despite concerns that we being raised and the fact that many new case studies were published highlighting very severe adverse effects. As you say finding a sleep solution was the driving force (and it did work for this) but who wants that when there are all the other issues.
My concern is the next phase as I suspect it will become available by prescription and folks will start getting it from their doctors. Sharing your story here adds to creating awareness so thank you!
I was put on Kavinase two-three years ago by my integrative Doctor. She mentioned that it was mildly addictive,but that she had successfully weaned a relative off of it. During this time, I had cataract surgery, and one of the post-operative drops was a florquinilone. This caused a major crash that llft me mostly bedridden for over a year. At the time I was weaning off a benzo as well as taking the antidepressant Mertazapine. It took over a year to wean off the benzo. Since the mertazapine can cause low sodium, I’ve been off and on it for several years as well. I have now been off of the mertazapine one week, and I just ran across this article. I have had increased sexual desire, obsessive thoughts, visual disturbances that include aura only migraines, waking with a bad taste in my mouth, feelings of nausea, and feeling like I was infested with fleas. This timely article caught my attention in a big way.
Since hearing that Kavinase was being yanked from the shelves (but not really having it explained why), I had started to taper off of it. I now fear that I don’t have enough to last for a proper taper. I am soooo tired. I was decreasing the two capsules to one this week,and that is when the nausea and itching started. It was my plan to get off as soon as I adjusted to being off the Mertazapine. I find some comfort in knowing that others have had these same symptoms. My normally supportive husband has had it. I haven’t driven for a couple of years because I am so tired.
Diane
I’m sorry to hear what a tough time you’ve been having. That combination of psych meds, together with phenibut and being in various stages of withdrawal can make things very challenging. Adding flouroquinolone antibiotics to the mix very often compounds the issues.
I have taken Kavinace for a good 7 years or more for anxiety and insomnia. Now I can’t get Kavinace and feel the withdraw symptoms and I’m much more anxious. I had always believed that this was just a harmless supplement and to find out otherwise is shocking. I’m a Registered Nurse and I would like to sue the producers of Kavinace for wrongful actions that has led me in to insomnia and impacted my quality of life. Today, with another bad night sleep, I feel sick to my stomach and brain fog. I am truly out raged.
Teresa
I’m sorry you are going through this but you are justified in being truly outraged! I am too and feel a class-action lawsuit is called for, for all of those like you whose lives have been impacted.
Hi Teresa,
Did you ever sue the producers of Kavinace Ultra PM? I was on it for 5.5 years, prescribed by a functional doctor and had no idea phenibut was in there. I am trying to taper off now as my doctor had a large supply to sell when I learned it was being discontinued, but I didn’t know why it was being discontinued.
I haven’t slept even a half-hour the last three nights. Pounding headache all day throughout the day. My brain-chemistry feels way out of balance. I had no idea that I had been artificially spiking the GABA in my brain the last 5.5 years, which it now doesn’t produce on it’s own! These withdrawal symptoms are so intense, I honestly feel solid job performance is near impossible during this state. Curious what you chose to do?
How long did the withdrawal symptoms last for you?
I too was given Kavinace Ultra PM for sleep by a naturopath in a reputable doctors office in my area, touting western, eastern and holistic medicine. I was told I could take one to two per night. I never asked for a sleep aid. I was asked how I was sleeping which wasn’t well to say the least. I was given samples. I went home and chose the Kavinace to try and slept for the first time in awhile like a baby. I immediately rushed my husband to the office to get a bottle for me. After some time I became suspicious because it was a too good to be true supplement. I point blank asked not only the doctor but a few other professionals if it was addictive. I was given the answer no. I looked it up and found some reviews stating stating that it was indeed addictive. As few as their were under the Kavinace reviews and as well as I was sleeping I disregarded them. I blame myself to some extent as I’m responsible for what I ingest. However I too am outraged as to what was done to us and to how deceptive the company was and my doctor. I not only took two, I developed a need for more to sleep and ended up with quite a habit. I was also depressed and taking benzodiazepines at the same time. What doctor would give this to a patient with my history. I tried to go off and couldn’t. It was then that I really dug into what Phenibut really is.
I came off the half of most of what I was on. It was a 9 week withdrawal under the direction of the same doctors office. Then I found out the FDA pulled it. I found out about 15 days after the initial letter was written. There was none left. They were and are selling bottles on eBay for $250. I realize there are online stores that sell in its pure form but I refuse to even go there. I’ve dropped the last two and am going through hell again. Mine was a 4 1/2 year habit. We were given no time to titrate, nothing. As much as I feel this is my fault as a consumer I too would like to see a class action lawsuit. How many people are suffering. I just wondered can someone take this as directed for 6 years and come out unscathed. Are there others like myself who built a tolerance and took more figuring it was just a supplement. There was a point where I was becoming fearful and I’m glad it was pulled but look who is suffering. As I said I never asked for anything to sleep. I asked the doctor point blank if it was addictive as well as the naturopath as well as another holistic doctor. How much money was made by these companies. Boy, am I paying a price and I’m not a youngster with many years ahead of me. I’m still in withdrawals after another 6 weeks. No return calls from the doctor office. I’ve suffered for long enough as I did suffer taking extra. There was no warning on the bottle. NOTHING! I have anxiety disorder and am still facing another titration. I’m just worn out and tired of being treated like a nobody! I could write on and on. Just awful!
Marie
I’m sorry to hear what you’ve been through and it’s totally unacceptable. This is just awful too: “They were and are selling bottles on eBay for $250.”
I encourage you to look in to what I teach about when it comes to anxiety – nutrition and nutrients to address imbalances, plus supporting gut health, removing toxins and much more. My book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” covers it all in great detail and this blog is a wealth of information too.
I had been taking 3 Kavinace at bedtime for about 9 years. When I heard they were no longer going to make it I bought a year supply because I knew I couldn’t sleep without it. I figured after a year they’d come up with a new supplement. Well, now I know I have to taper off. I at least have a stock to taper and not get off cold turkey. My question to Trudy is: Will you get addicted to the Gaba Calm? I am now taking 2 Kavinace at night, it has taken about 1 month to get off of one of them. I know I need to take a few weeks before I start tapering more because it feels like my brain is bruised. I also feel that this Phenibut in the Kavinace has lowered my Melanocyte Stimulating Hormone, making it more difficult to get a restful nights sleep. Have you seen an association with this?
Brenda
I have not had any clients addicted to any GABA products and there is no research indicating that this could happen. Like benzodiazepine tapers, it can take 3 months to 12 months (and in some cases longer) to taper – slow is the way to go. Additional nutritional support helps and melatonin is one supportive nutrient (I think you mean melatonin and not Melanocyte Stimulating Hormone which relates to pigmentation)
Trudy,
No, I do mean melanocyte stimulating hormone (MSH). This hormone is responsible for how much melatonin your body makes. I do feel like taking Kavinace has lowered this hormone.
Brenda – melanocyte stimulating hormone (MSH) is not involved in making melatonin.
Does anyone know how much phenibut is in Kavinace? On the label it says “proprietary blend of 4-Amino-3-phenylbutanoic acid and taurine, 900 mg” (for 2 capsules), but it’s not clear how much is taurine and how much is phenibut.
I’ve been taking 2 capsules before bed for >5 years. I started tapering from 2 to 1 capsule after the FDA announcement, and it has been brutal. I recently went on a trip and forgot my Kavinace and slept for only about 4 hours a night for each of the 3 nights. I’m down to half a bottle and I’m very worried about what is going to happen when I run out. I thought I might try to find some pure Phenibut so that I can taper off more slowly, but in order to do that, I need to know how much is in one capsule of Kavinace. Thanks.
Billy
I’m sorry to hear you’re going through this. Unfortunately this is an issue with proprietary blends. You could reach out to the company but I doubt you’ll get an answer.
Well you know it can’t be more than 650 mg. based on the back of the bottle. I am going to do the same thing. I hate that people who used kavinace responsibily are being hurt by those who don’t. To me it is ridiculous. You can drink alcohol and tons of coffee each day but not 1 kavinace? Sugar is addictive, too. Why don’t you get rid of that.
Let people know it’s addictive and how often to use it and warn them not to go over a certain mg. Trust them like you trust people to drink alcohol. It’s so sad responsible people who did well on it are being prevented from using it.
Amy
Since it was 900 mg for 2 capsules that would mean combined 450mg of phenibut and taurine.
It’s really not an issue of using phenibut responsibility. Many individuals who used it “responsibly” and according to the recommendations of their doctors ended up having issues. It’s also not an issue of how often to use it or dosage – for some folks a small amount can cause issues. The bigger issue is that you don’t know if you are one of the unfortunate individuals who will be adversely affected until you start using it. And that there is no informed content i.e. no warnings.
I hear you on the coffee and alcohol comment and agree both are addictive like drugs and we self-medicate with them way too much in order to get through the day. I actually am not in favor of either for this reason and educate a lot about this.
I am sorry you, as someone who did well with it, feel sad you no longer have access to it but there is GABA, taurine and other nutritional approaches that can provide the same results with none of the issues.
May I ask how much kavinace you used, how often and how it helped? And how long you had been using it for? And if you have trialed GABA, taurine and other nutritional approaches – and those results?
I will have some Kavinace for you if you need it.
I agree with Amy. I am tapering off phenibut only because it is not available except in powder form. The information I have, from another bogger, who called the company which makes Kavinace, is that Kavinace has 225 mg of phenibut per capsule and Ultra Kavinace 625. in case it might be of interest or help, I took two Kavinace for a night for about five years. Its efficacy did decrease over time but it always helped. I tapered off once before with no effects but worse sleep. Occasionally, i.e., when in a different time zone, I took Ultra Kavinace.
I have tried many other remedies including Gaba, never helpful and L-tryptphan, somewhat helpful. Much to my delight, along with one Kavinace ( or one Gaba Complex, also no longer made, 200 mg of phenibut), 400 mg of L-theanine and magnesium, I take Udream, a mixture of Chinese and Western herbs – and for the first time in 26 years I have been sleeping consistently well since mid-August.
It is sad that phenibut causes such problems to some. Extrapolating to many? Much more information would be needed for that to be accurate.
Nancy
Thanks for sharing what you’ve found out about dosing and glad you found something that works for you. I see Udream does contain tryptophan too.
I find many folks report GABA as not helping when it’s swallowed – using it sublingually works best. Curious if you trialed with GABA or tryptophan opened up and started start and increased until no further benefits?
It is sad phenibut causes so many issues and that we don’t know who will be affected adversely.
Probably biggest help for me replacing phenibut as sleep aid is 500 mg pure niacin that I have been taking for many years. I suggest you watch documentaries such as “Feed your head” and “Food matters”where there is much talk about niacin that you need to know before taking it ( or read texts of Andrew Saul).
Also, cbd oil, melatonin, relaxing herbs such as kava and a mixture of chelated magnesium, glutamine and other relaxing amino acids have been useful.
GABA doesn’t work for me even sublingually.
The link for the niacin I use (you can use other brands but not other forms):
https://www.iherb.com/pr/Now-Foods-Niacin-500-mg-100-Capsules/30566
Charles
Thanks for sharing about niacin and glad it helps. I love what both Andrew Saul and Abram Hoffer share about this B vitamin. It’s used extensively for those tapering off benzodiazepines too.
With niacin I would start as low as 25mg so I assume you built up slowly to 500mg. How slow did you go and do you still get the niacin flush? I’m curious if you have found niacinamide to be helpful or just niacin?
You mention GABA doesn’t work (GABA receptor issues?) but do mention other relaxing amino acids have been using – which ones? taurine? glycine?
Hello,
I had been using 3 capsules of Kavinace as a sleep aid at the suggestion of my former Integrative doctor for at least 8 years every night for insomnia. I am currently on week three of a taper ( one 250 mg capsule per night) using phenibut purchased online. I am still feeling pretty awful every day and not sleeping well. I was using magnesium glutamate 200 mg (why did it work? GABA issues? how to test?) which worked for several nights but doesn’t seem to be doing the trick, at least last night at the same dose. My doctor put me on trazadone for a week but I hated it because I felt awful the next day. CBD oil didn’t seem to do anything unless I took way too much and then I also felt even more awful the next day. I am not sure my current integrative doctor appreciates what a struggle this is. If anyone has any other suggestions, I would welcome them to get through this? I was going to split the capsule next week and then be done with the taper. Does that sound reasonable?
Thanks,
Barbara
I’m afraid I can’t offer specific advice for you via the blog. Typically tapers are best done over months and the slower the better. I have found these to help my clients: melatonin, GABA, tryptophan, niacinamide, plus addressing diet/no caffeine/no sugar, supporting the adrenals and gut health
I would share your struggles with your integrative doctor – so he/she is aware and so he/she can support you.
Do you sell sublingual GABA? If so, can you please provide a link or the brand name. Thank you.
Eddie
You are welcome to purchase via my online store – details here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-online-supplement-store-at-fullscript/
My doctor recommended Kavinace for flipped cortisol problems to assist me with more restful and productive sleep. I took it for well over a year, and it seemed to help. At some point she recommended I discontinue taking it, and warned me that I may need to back off it gradually to avoid withdrawal symptoms. Gratefully, I was able to discontinue use without tapering down and had no side effects. I have tried GABA and it just doesn’t seem to work that I can tell. After I stopped the Kavinace I read a bit about it, and was certainly glad that I’d discontinued use.
Sr Maria Gemma
Glad to hear you had no issues – some folks do fine and some not so well. We just don’t know who will be impacted. But I am pleased to hear your doctor was aware of possible withdrawal symptoms. I have not heard of using phenibut for flipped cortisol i.e. high cortisol at night. My approach is to use Seriphos – more here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/seriphos-original-formula-anxiety-insomnia-cortisol/ Presumably the GABA you have tried is sublingual as this method is most effective than swallowing capsules.
Hi Trudy. Thank you for giving people healthy options for real challenges. After being on a plant diet for 7 years, entering perimenopause brought on sleeplessness, hormone imbalances, weak adrenals, low thyroid/iron/blood pressure. I was a mess and used phenibut for probably 3-4 months. It helped me get the rest necessary for my body to begin healing. It was a godsend as nothing else seemed to work. After working up to 3 capsules nightly, and being not-so-sharp the next day, I began to wean off. It wasn’t terrible but did struggle to get enough sleep. I wonder if there is a gene that makes people more susceptible to addiction and dependency. After weaning, I only used phenibut a few days before my cycle would start (the hardest time for sleep for me). It was really helpful using only sparingly. I now use melatonin, tryptophan, CBD (gaba sparingly). This isn’t enough for my trouble times before my cycle starts, but it works on most nights. thanks again for your expertise and sharing with all of us. Many blessings…
Linda
Thanks for sharing – glad to hear melatonin, tryptophan, CBD and GABA help. Presumably the GABA you do use is sublingual – this method is most effective. Timed-release melatonin is something I also consider and we always look into pyroluria when there are hormone imbalances (zinc and B6 help so much). Addressing low iron is key too as it’s needed to make serotonin and GABA. As you may know I am also an advocate for quality animal protein.
There are genes that seem to affect individual tolerance for benzodiazepines so I suspect something similar could apply for phenibut – some people seem to do fine and others have major issues. Other factors that make things worse for those on benzos are SRRIs, BCP, antifungal medications, alcohol so it’s possible these also make things worse for some using phenibut.
thank you for responding. I just got Tryptophan Complete which has B6 and I will add zinc and see how that goes. thank you again! – Linda
The most important thing about phenubut is that it should absolutely NOT be taken everyday, but no more than once every 3-4 days.
This is common knowledge and widely known to anyone who does even rudimentary web search outside the big pharma sites (which are unfortunately the sites that google pushes to the top of search results).
Doctors/practitioners who recommend people take it daily simply haven’t done their homework or simply don’t care (or both). Quite frankly I am amazed that doctors actually recommend this for people to be taken daily. This is literally criminal negligence.
And from what I see in the comments, everyone who had problems with it was taking it daily and was mixing it with a cocktail of pharma drugs, which of course increases the chances of bad things happening.
Even the so called natural kavince that doctors give have very high levles of melatonin and 5-htp in addition to an unspecified amout of phenibut, so obviously that’s not a good measure for saying anything definite about phenibut.
I cannot stress enough that phenibut should NOT be mixed with drugs or supplements that affect the brain and it should absolutely NOT be taken daily!! If one sticks to these two very simple rules then phenibut is PROFOUNDLY beneficial.
I’ve personally been taking 1-1.5gr of phenibut HCL every 4 days for years now and it does nothing but wonders for me with zero adverse effects. Besides the well known relaxant effects it has on GABA receptors, it is actually much much more than just a relaxant, it also helps emotional processing, it opens the heart in ways that are hard to describe and enhances heart felt expression and creativity. As such it is profoundly useful in therapies and to anyone who wants to do deep psychological work on the suppressed unconscious aspects (a.k.a ‘shadow’) of their psyche. It is even very very helpful in trauma healing and integration.
Lastly, phenibut is NOTHING like benzos. One could even say it is the exact oppposite. While benzos turn you into a zombie , emotionally and psychologically numb, phenibut on the other hand makes you much more attuned and sensitive to others, and much more caring and loving.. it opens up your listening capacities quite literally (both in the sense of a very enhanced appreciation of music and sounds as well as in the sense of listening in depth to others’ expression)
I tried GABA at multiple dosages and forms to see if it might be an alternative to phenibut but it did absolutely nothing for me. Zero effect.
Daniel
Thanks for sharing. I am familiar with the cycling aspect of using phenibut and glad to hear you have found what works for you. Unfortunately even when used like you suggest some folks still have issues so it’s really case by case. What’s even more unfortunate is that you don’t know if you will be the one who is adversely affected.
Also many folks are also taking prescription anti-fungals, SSRIs, the BCP, antibiotics etc – these can cause issues when on benzos and may well be a factor with issues seen with phenibut as you mention. However there are folks who have issues even when these are not part of the picture.
I have not had anyone share this aspect and find these insights very helpful : “it also helps emotional processing, it opens the heart in ways that are hard to describe and enhances heart felt expression and creativity. As such it is profoundly useful in therapies and to anyone who wants to do deep psychological work on the suppressed unconscious aspects (a.k.a ‘shadow’) of their psyche. It is even very very helpful in trauma healing and integration.” and “phenibut on the other hand makes you much more attuned and sensitive to others, and much more caring and loving.. it opens up your listening capacities quite literally (both in the sense of a very enhanced appreciation of music and sounds as well as in the sense of listening in depth to others’ expression)”. This description sounds similar to the effects of psychadelics and MDMA assisted therapy https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/psychedelics-is-mdma-assisted-therapy-effective-and-safe/
I would love to hear what GABA products you tried, how much and if you used them sublingually?
You also mention how it’s different from benzos – have you been prescribed a benzodiazepine?
Hello!
I agree with Daniel. Phenibut really does have those effects and is profoundly different from benzos. I have taken benzos for years (that was many years ago) and also phenibut for years. Although I agree that it can be difficult to not take phenibut every night if you have for example insomnia and phenibut works best for it and you need to sleep to be able to work.
I’m still suffering 8 months after going off of Kavinace Ultra PM. Unfortunately during the course of taking these I became depressed and started taking extra to sleep longer in the morning. Initially I was given these to sleep by my naturopath. I did not ask for a sleep aid although I was having trouble sleeping. Kavinace was too good to be true. My intuition lead me to asking my doctor, naturopath, nurse and holistic doctor if it was addictive. I was told no. I asked my holistic doctor and he looked at the bottle and said they were just amino acids. My doctor said you can be come dependent and that was it. A rudimentary search when you nor anyone else knows a damn thing. I looked or googled many times only to find reviews for the most part. Some warnings. I guess I’m a complete idiot.
A rudimentary search? I searched reviews. I found a few to be disturbing but for the most part no big deals. It was not until I was in deep trouble that I started digging through material on phenibut.
To this day I am not functioning normally 8 months later. I have chronic fatigue and feel like I have the flu daily. I have no life and rarely leave the house. This is all apparently due to post acute withdrawal. My brain has not healed and I am in fear that it never will. I can’t focus on too much of anything. I had two 8 day episodes wherein I regained some clarity then dropped back into the abyss I’ve been living in. So far my husband has been my support. I’m going to counseling, seeing my doctor and a naturopath. I feel like I’m going to die.
I feel that a civil lawsuit is in order and this drug should never have been distributed by these companies. Perhaps in prescription form. There were no warnings on the bottle, nothing. I feel completely alone as I have not read a story such as mine yet. DO NO USE PHENIBUT. it’s a dangerous drug and should be taken only under the direction of a professional. When I walked out of that office the first day had they told me it was addictive I would have never purchased. Most were taking the word of the reps who were distributing. Nobody really knew what this drug was. I’ve been to emergency twice now and most personnel haven’t a clue what it is.
I took 2 capsules a night for two years then the depression hit. I then took 2 to 3 extra in the morning to sleep. I went off 3 in 2018 back to 2. It took 9 weeks to feel normal again. Then the FDA steps in and pulls it. No time to think. Tapered for only about 1 1/2 months around the beginning of June 2019. Terrible withdrawals for 6 weeks at least and then this. No one can do a thing for me.
I do feel though at times that I would go on one a night if I thought it would allow me to regain control of my life. However, at this point who would know. Living like this is not worth it. Oft times doctors refuse to give people medications that do help them. It makes no sense but again had I known I would have never started taking this. I suffer daily just praying for an end to the agony. They’re still selling on eBay for a fortune although I would have titrated far longer without even knowing if that would have solved the problem.
DMI
I am sorry to hear what you have been through and continue to go through. Thank you for sharing your story here as it addw to the list of horror stories folks experience.
I agree that a lawsuit is in order. But I would not even agree with prescription form as I’d expect there to be similar outcomes with prescribing doctors not being aware of the ramifications
DMI I have a similar story. And I agree with you that if enough of us with this kind of story connect, a class action lawsuit could be in order.
I was given Kavinace Ultra PM by my naturopath who also told that it was just amino acids and very safe about 6 1/2 years ago. I took 1600 mg/ 1.6g of the “supplement” for sleep for about 4 1/2 years daily. The dose that was recommended to me I now know (thanks to info on the internet posted for those who want to use Phenibut recreationally) to be a very high dose. After 6 weeks of taking it daily I developed a pneumonia (apparently a risk factor of prolonged use) that I couldn’t shake for over a year.
At numerous times over the 4 1/2 year period, I would search the NeuroScience website looking for any listed side effects, contraindications, warnings etc. Year after year, there were none. When I first began taking it, I searched the internet for the ingredients and found really very little. It wasn’t until it was suddenly pulled off the market over night in April of 2019 by the FDA that I discovered the very serious side effects, the warnings and contraindications about Phenibut, it’s main ingredient, listed all over the internet.
I initially took Kavinace for insomnia but over time I developed a host of seemingly unrelated symptoms – major cognitive impairment, mental confusion, zero short term memory, difficulties with speech (both word finding and articulating), impaired balance, dizziness, tremoring, chronic cough, difficulty swallowing, spitting up excessive phlegm, severe chronic muscle spasms, digestive problems, severe joint pain and stiffness, insomnia, severe anxiety, irritability,depression with angry outbursts all became a regular aspect of my life. It was like an alter ego had taken over. Now I know those SX were related to Phenibut use and its effect on the Autonomic Nervous System. I had a hysterectomy in 2017 and because I thought I was told it was a harmless amino acid, I didn’t feel the need to disclose I’d taken Kavinace late the night before going under anesthesia. For hours after my 5 hour surgery they couldn’t wake me up! Now that I know that phenibut acts on the system much like a benzo does, I feel lucky something awful didn’t happen.
My profession is in the field of natural medicine and my cognitive functioning deteriorated to the degree that I had to stop working for almost 2 years out of the fear that I could not responsibly care for my patients.
It’s been almost 2 years since I took Kavinace and I still struggle with a host of neurological issues including cognitive impairment, strange vision problems, right sided loss of sensation just to name a few. I recently discovered that I have liver damage as well which for me as a non drinker with an extremely health conscious, whole foods diet and lifestyle my entire life is shocking and devastating.
The psycho- emotional effects have also been difficult for me to recover from. The loss of control physically, mentally and emotionally has been devastating. And instead of a vital, extremely active and healthy person, I suffer from a host of health issues. I’ve tried SO many things in an attempt to fully recover and return to the optimal functioning I enjoyed most of my life. I’m slightly less optimistic at this point though I remain somewhat hopeful.
I still have a hard time believing that NeuroScience Inc, the company that made the Kavinace, got away with it all! I did some research into the company about a year ago and discovered that NeuroScience Inc is listed on Bloomberg as a Biotech and specialty pharma company! I think most complementary health care docs would be shocked at that news. I also discovered that Phenibut was invented by Russian scientists in the 60’s to treat anxiety in astronauts. It’s been sold there by prescription only for many years so the risks associated with its use have been well known for almost 40 years. Therefore it would appear that despite the fact there there were no side effects, contraindications or warnings about Kavinace on the packaging, NeuroScience had to have known about the risks associated with its use. They also must have known that by marketing and packaging it as a “dietary supplement” instead of as a prescription medication, they did not have to disclose that info to the consumer. Selling a highly addictive substance at $60 a bottle isn’t a bad way to make a lot of money. And what other than financial gain would have been the reason to omit the safety info from their packaging and website?
I know one other person personally who also got the supplement for sleep through her ND who, like I, had no idea that the sudden, strange decline in her health had anything to do with the “natural, amino acid” she was taking for sleep support had anything to do with it. Ironically those using phenibut recreationally are WAY more informed than those of us who had no idea what we were really taking.
I’m very interested in connecting with other health conscious people like us who thought they were taking a healthy alternative to pharmaceuticals for anxiety and / or insomnia. Like me, because of the lack of warnings, there would be no reason for someone to associate a decline in their health with its use. When taken with even minimal amounts of alcohol, fatty liver or cirrhosis are very real risks.
Can anyone help me understand what to do I have been taking Kavinaice Ultra Pm for 2 or so years, one pill a night, then started going to 1/2 pill when found out they were discontinuing. I stopped taking it all together 4 nights ago and insomnia is terrible. I take another herbal supplement but that doesn’t do the same sleep as the Kavinaice Ultra PM. Does anyone have any suggestions for going cold turkey like this , should I take one tonight, then stop for another 4 days? What do I do now? thanks.
Carrie
I use GABA and other nutritional support like tryptophan, melatonin and niacinamide for phenibut and benzodiazepine tapers. Being nutritionally stable helps tremendously too but for some folks tapering is still very challenging.
If you are new to the amino acids (and other anxiety nutrition solutions like gluten/sugar/caffeine removal, blood sugar control, gut health, pyroluria etc) my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” is a great place to start. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/store/aafsbook.html
Apologies for the delay in your comment approval and my response. We had a computer glitch where a large number of comments were hidden from view in a spam folder. It mostly affected new folks who were commenting for the first time but it’s hopefully resolved now.
OMG DMI, my story is very much like yours. I too was given Kavinace Ultra PM by my naturopath who also told that it was just amino acids and very safe.
I took the 1600 mg/ 1.6g of the “supplement” for sleep for almost 5 years daily. The dose was recommended to me at what I now know (thanks to info on the internet posted for those who want to use Phenibut recreationally) to be a very high dose. After 6 weeks of taking it daily I developed a pneumonia (apparently a risk factor of prolonged use) that I couldn’t shake for over a year. During that time other strange things began to happen, things like spontaneously choking on my own saliva, very severe anxiety and insomnia, a chronic resting tremor in my neck, the right side of my body had reduced sensation. I could go on as there was much, much more. Physically, mentally and emotionally I was effected. My profession is in the field of natural medicine and my cognitive functioning deteriorated to the degree that I had to stop working for a prolonged period of time for fear that I could not responisbly care for my patients.
At numerous times over the 5 year period, I would search the NeuroScience website looking for any listed side effects, contraindications, warnings etc. Year after year, there were none. When I first began taking it, I searched the internet for the ingredients and found really very little. It wasn’t until it was suddenly pulled off the market over night in April of 2019 by the FDA that I discovered the very serious side effects, the warnings and contraindications about Phenibut, it’s main ingredient, listed all over the internet.
I initially took Kavinace for insomnia but over time I developed a host of seemingly unrelated symptoms – major cognitive impairment, mental confusion, zero short term memory, difficulties with speech (both word finding and articulating), impaired balance, dizziness, tremoring, chronic cough, difficulty swallowing, spitting up excessive phlegm, severe chronic muscle spasms, digestive problems, severe joint pain and stiffness, insomnia, severe anxiety, irritability,depression with angry outbursts all became a regular aspect of my life. It was like an alter ego had taken over. Now I know those SX were related to Phenibut use and its effect on the Autonomic Nervous System. I had a hysterectomy in 2017 and because I thought I was told it was a harmless amino acid, I didn’t feel the need to disclose I’d taken Kavinace late the night before going under anesthesia. For hours after my 5 hour surgery they couldn’t wake me up! Now that I know that phenibut acts on the system much like a benzo does, I feel lucky something awful didn’t happen.
It’s been almost 2 years since I took Kavinace and although many of the those SX are now for the most part resolved, I too still struggle with a host of neurological issues including cognitive impairment, strange vision problems, right sided loss of sensation, gut issues that for the most part I’ve now learned to live with. I recently discovered that I have liver damage as well which for me as a non drinker with an extremely health conscious, whole foods diet is shocking, and devastating.
The psycho- emotional effects have also been difficult for me to recover from. The loss of control physically, mentally and emotionally has been devastating. And instead of a vital, extremely active and healthy person, I suffer from a host of health issues. I’ve tried SO many things in an attempt to fully recover and return to the optimal functioning I enjoyed most of my life. I’m slightly less optimistic at this point though I remain somewhat hopeful.
I still have a hard time believing that NeuroScience Inc, the company that made the Kavinace, got away with it all! I did some research into the company about a year ago and discovered that NeuroScience Inc is listed on Bloomberg as a Biotech and specialty pharma company! I think most complementary health care docs would be shocked at that news. I also discovered that Phenibut was invented by Russian scientists in the 60’s to treat anxiety in astronauts. It’s been sold there by prescription only for many years so the risks associated with its use have been well known for almost 40 years. Therefore it would appear that despite the fact there there were no side effects, contraindications or warnings about Kavinace on the packaging, NeuroScience had to have known about the risks associated with its use. They also must have known that by marketing and packaging it as a “dietary supplement” instead of as a prescription medication, they did not have to disclose that info to the consumer. Selling a highly addictive substance at $60 a bottle isn’t a bad way to make a lot of money. And what other than financial gain would have been the reason to omit the safety info from their packaging and website?
I’m very interested in connecting with other health conscious people like us who thought they were taking a healthy alternative to pharmaceuticals for anxiety and / or insomnia. Like us, because of the lack of warnings, there would be no reason for someone to associate a decline in their health with its use. When taken with even minimal amounts of alcohol, fatty liver or cirrhosis are very real risks.
When I was still taking phenibut I found a few online chats where people were talking about the effects of it on their memory, balance etc. I looked for the chats when Kavinace was taken off the market but strangely they’d been shut down.
Please feel free to contact me if you would like to discuss this further.
I am interested in connecting with others who, like me, were given a phenibut containing “supplement” for anxiety or sleep by a health care practitioner.
I was given Kavinace Ultra PM by my naturopath who also told that it was just amino acids and very safe about 6 1/2 years ago. As directed, I took 1600 mg/ 1.6g of the “supplement” for sleep for about 4 1/2 years daily. The dose that was recommended to me I now know (thanks to info on the internet posted for those who want to use Phenibut recreationally) to be a very high dose. After 6 weeks of taking it daily I developed a pneumonia (apparently a risk factor of prolonged use) that I couldn’t shake for over a year.
Because of the seemingly idiopathic severe decline in health I was experiencing, at numerous times over the 4 1/2 year period I searched the NeuroScience website looking for any listed side effects, contraindications, warnings etc. Year after year, there were none. When I first began taking it, I did an internet search of the ingredients and found really very little. It wasn’t until Kavinace was suddenly pulled off the market over night in April of 2019 by the FDA that I discovered the very serious side effects, warnings and contraindications about Phenibut, the slang term for it’s main ingredient 4-amino-3-phenylbutric acid HCL, listed all over the internet.
I initially took Kavinace for insomnia but over time developed a host of seemingly unrelated symptoms – major cognitive impairment, mental confusion, zero short term memory, difficulties with speech (both word finding and articulating), impaired balance, dizziness, tremmoring/ mild loss of sensation (both of which I woke of one morning with),chronic cough, difficulty swallowing, spitting up excessive phlegm, severe chronic muscle spasms, digestive problems, severe joint pain and stiffness, insomnia, severe anxiety, irritability,depression with angry outbursts all became a regular aspect of my life. It was like an alter ego had taken over. Now I know those symptoms were related to Phenibut use and its effect on the Autonomic Nervous System. I had a hysterectomy in 2017 and because I thought I was told it was a harmless amino acid, I didn’t feel the need to disclose I’d taken Kavinace late the night before going under anesthesia. For hours after my 5 hour surgery they couldn’t wake me up! Now that I know that phenibut acts on the system much like a benzo does, I feel lucky something awful didn’t happen.
My profession is in the field of natural medicine and my cognitive functioning deteriorated to the degree that I had to stop working for almost 2 years out of the fear that I could not responsibly care for my patients.
It’s been almost 2 years since I took Kavinace and I still struggle with a host of neurological issues including cognitive impairment, strange vision problems, right sided loss of sensation just to name a few. I recently discovered that I have liver damage as well which for me as a non drinker with an extremely health conscious, whole foods diet and lifestyle my entire life is shocking and devastating.
The psycho- emotional effects have also been difficult for me to recover from. The loss of control physically, mentally and emotionally has been devastating. And instead of a vital, extremely active and healthy person, I suffer from a host of health issues. I’ve tried SO many things in an attempt to fully recover and return to the optimal functioning I enjoyed most of my life. I’m slightly less optimistic at this point though I remain somewhat hopeful.
I still have a hard time believing that NeuroScience Inc, the company that made the Kavinace, got away with it all! I did some research into the company about a year ago and discovered that NeuroScience Inc is listed on Bloomberg as a Biotech and specialty pharma company! I think most complementary health care docs would be shocked at that news. I also discovered that Phenibut was invented by Russian scientists in the 60’s to treat anxiety in astronauts. It’s been sold there by prescription only for many years so the risks associated with its use have been well known for almost 40 years. Therefore it would appear that despite the fact there there were no side effects, contraindications or warnings about Kavinace on the packaging, NeuroScience had to have known about the risks associated with its use. They also must have known that by marketing and packaging it as a “dietary supplement” instead of as a prescription medication, they did not have to disclose that info to the consumer. Selling a highly addictive substance at $60 a bottle isn’t a bad way to make a lot of money. And what other than financial gain would have been the reason to omit the safety info from their packaging and website?
I know one other person personally who also got the supplement for sleep through her ND who, like I, had no idea that the sudden, strange decline in her health had anything to do with the “natural, amino acid” she was taking for sleep support had anything to do with it. Ironically those using phenibut recreationally are WAY more informed than those of us who had no idea what we were really taking.
As I mentioned, I’m very interested in connecting with other health conscious people like us who thought they were taking a healthy alternative to pharmaceuticals for anxiety and / or insomnia.
LScott
At last I have found your comment posted here after you emailed me. Apologies for the delay in your comment approval and my response. We had a computer glitch where a large number of comments were hidden from view in a spam folder. It mostly affected new folks who were commenting for the first time but it’s hopefully resolved now.
Thank you for reaching out initially and for posting here. I am sorry you went through this and I’m very concerned as I hear more and more stories like yours. Unfortunately the NDs were heavily marketed to and many were not aware of the issues with phenibut. But quite frankly, I’m surprised that so many didn’t ask questions and didn’t look at the research which has reported issues for many years.
Trudy, quite frankly no one in these offices checked into Kavinace or phenibut. The doctors should also be held responsible. You don’t put things on a shelf without knowing what you are selling. They took the word of the reps and acted like it was a no big deal thing. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve landed on information on different subjects that I stumbled on that my doctor had no clue about.
I just received an email stating that there was a response to my comment. Wow! So sorry I had not a clue. It will be 2 years this June and I have to say I’m 50% better. What?? Insanity. I haven’t a clue how I’ve made it this far. That first year there were many times I had wished I were dead. I guess I was. Everything hurt. It’s a different hurt. Psychological pain! My head felt like a land mine. Due to so many problems I was in bed for the most part of that year and this last year has been pretty much the same. My body, mind and soul have malfunctioned to the point where I’m not sure I’ll make it to any ripe age.
To Lili and L. Scott I’m so sorry you to have suffered so from this. I’m still trying to put the pieces together. I’ve given up on the emergency room after my 3rd trip as they have no clue what Phenibut is although I must say the nurses are a bit more up to date on this then the doctors. I’ve had many tests run there as I thought I was dying. My doctor has yet to apologize although has admitted that they just didn’t have the information on Kavinace. How could they just take the word of a rep and make money selling “holistic sleep aids” off of their shelves. It was flying off like candy. That being said I started buying from eBay. I just recently checked and found another 2 bottles listed and sold for $849.00 on January 27, 2021. I can’t imagine why people don’t know that they have online stores where you can buy this stuff. My doctor has said that big pharma was in fact in the process of coming out with a prescription drug at that point the online stores will be shut down also as it will be illegal without a prescription. My doctor admitted I wasn’t the only one with problems although mine being the worse case scenario of course. I’ve written him so many times through the patient portal I’m shocked he hasn’t fired me yet. I keep waiting for the day when he tells me to go elsewhere and where would that be? I haven’t a clue. I can’t take antidepressants. They make me deathly ill as do many other pharmaceuticals. If I could have stayed on a maintenance dose of 1 a night I would have had I known this was going to happen to me. What are they thinking? I was functioning before I dropped the last two a night. You see I found out I was addicted about 9 months before it was even announced that they were pulling it. I dropped back to two a night which was 9 weeks of hell and was at least finding myself again, going out and starting to live again. Then the FDA pulls it and gives us 15 days to get off. Putting a lot of people in a deadly situation.
I depend on this doctor for other health issues mainly attributed to this as I don’t think I would get any support whatsoever from anyone else. I think I’ve almost lost it so many times I can’t count them anymore. I cry almost daily although as I’ve said I feel better then I had but not enough to function in a normal fashion. My grown daughters don’t understand. I feel that they’ve lost respect for me as they haven’t a clue what is going on. In fact no one understands. How could they? Some days I can suit up and others I feel like I have the flu. I feel like an utter failure. I’m not myself either. I’ve always had depression anxiety problems but this threw me over the edge. I can’t function in a normal manner anymore. Nothing has helped me. I don’t drive. I think I’ve driven our car 5 times in the last 2 years. I do no grocery shopping. I have to be with my husband all the time. Nothing appeals to me. I try but can’t get a handle on much. I’m not the same person I used to be. Looking back to even the couple years I took my allotted dose of 1 to 2 per night I can see a pattern of anxiety that wasn’t there prior to taking this. Of course I wonder about everything now. I don’t leave my home and have terrible agoraphobia. I’m no youngster anymore and I’m starting to wonder if I’ll ever regain any purposeful meaning in my life. My counselor asked me to get a shoebox, decorate it and start putting past hurts on paper and deposit them in the box. I got so far as grabbing a shoe box from my closet. I could not and have not decorated that box. I just can’t. I have absolutely no patience to even sit and try to decorate a shoe box.
Reddit was the site that really tipped me off as far as what was going on with this drug when I truly realized what I had done. Yes I put it in my mouth but I still can’t let go of the fact that anyone in their right mind would have sold this off of a shelf. Let alone eBay. They might as well hand cigarettes out to minors. I dug deep because I knew I was in trouble. Like chicken little the sky is falling. Totally unbelievable. The fact that they take people off of this stuff and just toss you out into the World to make it on your own is beyond me and in humane. I feel like I have a terrible lifelong disease.
The company should be sued! How in gods name can they get away with this? The FDA is another farce. I want my life back. I didn’t ask for this stuff. I wasn’t told that it was addictive. I would have never purchased. I was so depressed I haven’t a clue what happened but I couldn’t deal with anything and my tolerance to Kavinace went up and so did my dose until I realized the sky was falling. Now I’m not too sure that anything can be done. Some people have come out of this far easier then I. Of course I’m always the 1%. I never thought I’d live the rest of my life out like a zombie that can barely laugh. Can’t focus on much. I’m trying to get back to my photography so purchased a new camera. Can barely read the manual. It’s like a calculus class for me. Then there’s the issue of going out to take pictures. Heroin addicts may be better off. I don’t know but at least they can go on a maintenance dose or take methadone. I have no answers. As far as I can tell no one else does either and the responsible parties could care less. No involved lawyers, nothing.
Please write if you feel the need. Again, I’m so sorry for all that have suffered through this agony.