My friend and colleague, occupational therapist Phaedra Antioco, is a pain expert, has been in pain herself, and she’s on a mission to help you heal. She is host of the Pain Treatments That Work 2.0 online summit that runs Sept 2 – 9, 2017.
She’s bringing together more than 25 experts, including me, to share unique and innovative approaches to pain healing—approaches that work when nothing else has. You’ll learn:
- Healthy ways to move your body, without pain, so you can get the exercise your body needs, and enjoy the myriad benefits including decreased anxiety, better health, and more fun.
- Tips for managing stress so you can find more joy in each day.
- How to find deeper meaning and more fulfillment in your life.
- How to let go of physical and emotional pain and get through your day happy and pain-free (Really! It is possible).
- Effective treatments that work … including some you may not have heard of.
I share more about my recent back injury and how I used GABA – sometimes in pretty high doses – to ease this recent pain and how I’ve used it and other approaches for the pain I’ve experienced in the past. Wow I hadn’t realized how much pain I’ve experienced in my life until I prepared for this interview (climbing injuries, car accidents, neck injury from poor posture at the computer, shingles, a tick bite and more!)
We also talk about the anxiety connection to pain and how fear can make us clench up and make the pain worse. And the role of GABA and tryptophan in this instance. Phaedra shares how much GABA helps her and her clients too!
I also asked Phaedra to share her expertise on pelvic floor adjustments:
Pelvic floor dysfunction commonly occurs from scars from abdominal/pelvic surgeries, childbirth, traumatic falls and injuries, and even too much sitting. Symptoms of Pelvic Floor Disorder in both men and women can cause chronic pelvic pain, inability to sit for long periods of time, urinary or rectal incontinence, painful intercourse, painful menstrual cycles in women and erectile dysfunction in men, to name a few.
Manual internal treatment of the pelvic floor, using a myofascial release and craniosacral therapy approach, makes an excellent treatment choice for pelvic floor dysfunction due to the gentle-nature of treatment techniques.
Pelvic floor treatment begins externally with releases of the abdomen and pelvis. Once a therapeutic relationship is established, internal treatment may be recommended. Results often include relief from pain, improved sitting, walking and sleeping, and better elimination!
I also share my concerns with using collagen and gelatin for healing and how they may actually be lowering serotonin levels and contributing to anxiety and depression in susceptible individuals
I see everyone raving about gelatin and collagen (and rightly so – they are amazing) and yet no-one is addressing that fact that gelatin is actually used in tryptophan-depletion studies to lower serotonin. And it really concerns me that this aspect is ignored
I do hope you can join us!
Trudy, I follow your work and have a question about long-term use of tryptophan, 5htp and gaba. When one stops using any of these is there a rebound, or “discontinuation syndrome” as there is with benzos and ssri’s?
Also, do you know any studies regarding use of these supplements during pregnancy?
Thanks in advance!
Hi Evelyn
I have not seen this to be an issue and have not seen any research stating this. There is no research on these supps during pregnancy which is unfortunate considering the issues we see with SSRIs in pregnancy. I know many practitioners recommend a free form amino acid blend that contains all the amino acids (making sure it does contain tryptophan – many don’t). This article has some additional postpartum resources that maybe helpful https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/nutritional-interventions-postpartum-depression-and-anxiety/. Herbalist and MD Aviva Romm has some nice herbal approaches she uses. Of course dietary and lifestyle approaches go a long way – gluten-free, no caffeine, real whole food, quality animal protein, good gut health, yoga, exercise, nature and preparing nutritionally before falling pregnant.
I’d love to hear your approaches during pregnancy and breast-feeding?
Thanks for your feedback. I will definitely check out Dr. Romm’s work and books.
As a psychotherapist who works integratively I have stayed away from making suggestions for herbs or supplements during pregnancy since I couldn’t find any research on this area, which you confirmed. And most people I see aren’t also working with a nutritionist or ND.
About the discontinuation syndrome with 5htp and gaba, any thoughts?
Evelyn
Re the discontinuation that was my first comment – “I have not seen this to be an issue and have not seen any research stating this.”
Hi Trudy,
I have been following you for quite a while, and you have been a real inspiration for me. I read your latest post on your newsletter this morning, and I am confused about the role that serotonin plays in anxiety. I just happened to be reading an article (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/07/02/social-anxiety-disorder.aspx)
this morning (for a different reason), that mentioned that high serotonin levels can cause anxiety, and you are saying low levels can contribute to anxiety. I was just wondering if you could help clear up my confusion about this, as I have some degree of social anxiety.
Also, I wanted to find out if you do any consultations via Skype or phone?
Thanks,
Heidi H
Hi Heidi
We suspect both low and high serotonin can cause issues just like taking too much tryptophan can make you more anxious. With social anxiety we look at pyroluria first https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/pyroluria-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/
I have a waiting list right now https://www.everywomanover29.com/services.html
Hello Trudy!
Thank you for all your fantastic work here and on fb. I feel like I could share every post. 🙂
Now for my question, my husband has headache since over three weeks. He had an mrt to exclude a brain tumor. So that’s good. Had one manual therapy bc the doctor says it’s spinal blockades in cervical spine 1 and 2.
I don’t like that he’s on ibuprofen since three weeks. (Small dose, but still.) I persuaded him to start on GABA instead. Today he has taken four. He says it doesn’t help as much as ibuprofen. Is there a maximum amount? How many can you take at once? I know there was a medication with high dose GABA that was taken from the market.
Thank you for reading this.
Best regards
Petra
Petra
GABA will only help if low GABA is causing the pain and I’ve had clients use up to 2000mg a few times a day. This is a lot and we increase slowly. I also look at low serotonin and low endorphins for pain. I actually suffered ice-pick type headaches 2 years ago and high doses or GABA, tryptophan and DPA helped but the big shift happened once I worked with a physical therapist who specialized in neck therapy.
I’m not sure what this means? I know there was a medication with high dose GABA that was taken from the market.
thanks for that info re gelatin haveng no tryptophan, very interesting.
Due to a knee injury a while ago I added 1 tablespoon of Gelatin to my breakfast (without removing anything else from my diet)
Having done a quick check of the tryptophan content of the foods I normally consume, I can see that I am easily getting sufficient.
The gelatin definitely helped my knee, so I guess it’s a just a question of using it sensibly and in moderation.
Trudy, Thanks so much for discussing collagen powder supplements and possible links with depression and anxiety. I personally noticed an effect recently – I started feeling very low, blue, and hopeless (very out of character for me) the day after taking 2 tablespoons of a terrific brand of grass-fed collagen. I experimented by stopping it for a week and then trying again. The depressive symptoms returned when I took the collagen again. I was simply adding it to a smoothie. So I looked up what is in collagen and read an article explaining that an abundance of the amino acid glycine found in collagen is very relaxing for some people but can bring other people’s moods “too low”. The article specifically advised people with bipolar disorder not to use supplement with glycine. I do not have bipolar disorder, but I definitely felt a major drop in my mood when experimenting with collagen. My partner noticed the change in my mood, too. I can’t wait to hear your thoughts about this important effect, so I registered for the summit. You are the first I have heard really sound an alert for it. Much appreciated! You are terrific.
I listened to you speak (on the Pain Treatments That Work 2.0 online summit). yesterday 9/4/17. It was a wonderful talk! I understand from your explanation that the reason collagen can be problematic is because it does not contain tryptophan and depletes serotonin. I found it fascinating that you discovered that collagen is used in research studies to intentionally deplete serotonin. This makes complete sense why I felt so awful after taking collagen. Thanks for all you do! I am now thinking of encouraging a family member to consider taking tryptophan to potentially alleviate adult ADD and long-term depression issues; however, I am VERY concerned about the potential scary side effects of tryptophan (such as liver damage and cancer) listed here in this post: http://www.supplements-and-health.com/tryptophan-side-effects.html . Can you address this claim of side effects?
Hi Mitch
I’m so pleased you enjoyed my interview and thanks for sharing your collagen experience. I’m working on a blog post to share more because there is very little awareness of this fact about tryptophan depletion studies using collagen.
Thanks for sharing this link. It’s a long post with many references and at first glance I would also be concerned. I don’t know who the author is and will need to check this out further before I can give answers to some of his specific claims. I take articles like this very seriously (so thanks for sharing) and I will be digging into it but it’s going to take me some time. For starters for each of these claims/papers I would want to know how much tryptophan was being used and who manufactured the tryptophan.
With tryptophan, quality has been an issue in the past. It was banned in 1989 due to GM batch that was contaminated. For this reason I only recommend Lidtke tryptophan and have been using it for over 10 years without issues (when used correctly per each person’s unique needs). My mentor Julia Ross, author of “The Mood Cure” has been recommending tryptophan very successfully for over 30 years.
Right now I can share the precautions I use when recommending amino acids to clients https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acid-precautions/ and suggest you read my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” (on Amazon here http://amzn.to/2kptFWm) so you are well-informed about the use of amino acids. The book has an entire chapter on the topic plus chapters on my entire process for anxiety (real food, no gluten, gut health etc). Much of this helps with depression and ADHD too.
Can Gaba be used for people who have lyme disease and have been floxed? A friend is really having trouble with pain and can no longer get her opiods. So she is on suboxone and gabapentin.
Nancy
I use GABA to help with pain and anxiety in many situations. If the pain is due to low GABA then it helps. Here is an interview on GABA and Lyme https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/gaba-lyme-anxiety/ For pain I also look at low serotonin and low endorphins and do trials of tryptophan and DPA.