Intrusive thoughts are a thing with anxiety even though they are not often talked about. It’s for this reason I shared a link to an article on Facebook recently – “The Debilitating Anxiety Symptom No One Ever Talks About” – and the response was overwhelming. I promised to do a blog to do a deeper dive into this topic and share actual real-life examples of uncomfortable and unwanted intrusive thoughts that seemingly appear out of no-where when you have anxiety. And of course, I’m using these real-life examples to highlight some of the many biochemical root causes and nutritional solutions: low GABA, low serotonin, low zinc, low vitamin B6 (and pyroluria) and hormone imbalances. These root cause solutions are all backed by research and clinical results.
You’ll also discover that intrusive thoughts are more common than you’d expect and it’s not just you who experiences them.
Katelyn, author of the above article, shared this about her intrusive thoughts (and this is part of what I shared on Facebook):
As I gained more life experiences, my intrusive thoughts developed into other fears. Now that I was older, these thoughts turned into new scenarios, ones that felt more real. For example, when I started driving, I’d see myself veering off the road, hitting a side rail, flying off a ledge, or running head-on into a semi. I didn’t really want to do any of these things. I just wanted to get to my destination, but these thoughts would keep running through my mind, and I couldn’t stop them.
I did not realize intrusive thoughts were a ‘thing,’ and I thought this was just me
The Facebook post and article quickly resonated with many women with someone saying “I have never identified with an article more…wow.”
One woman said “I did not realize intrusive thoughts were a ‘thing,’ a symptom of something” and someone else said “I thought this was just me.”
Someone else responded: “I thought it was only me as well. I’ve had thoughts like this nearly my entire life.”
(You can read the entire article here: The Debilitating Anxiety Symptom No One Ever Talks About)
The purpose of this blog is to share actual feedback so you can see how varied these intrusive thoughts can be. And recognize that they are a thing and that you are not alone if you experience them.
And then use these cases to illustrate the variety of root causes (and solutions) and show how some of them are very interconnected: like zinc and vitamin B6 for pyroluria, for making GABA and serotonin, and also for hormone balance (more on that below).
A definition from The Anxiety and Depression Association of America
In case you need a definition: “Unwanted intrusive thoughts are stuck thoughts that cause great distress. They seem to come from out of nowhere, arrive with a whoosh, and cause a great deal of anxiety.
The content of unwanted intrusive thoughts often focuses on sexual or violent or socially unacceptable images. People who experience unwanted intrusive thoughts are afraid that they might commit the acts they picture in their mind. They also fear that the thoughts mean something terrible about them….
Unwanted intrusive thoughts can be very explicit, and many people are ashamed and worried about them, and therefore keep them secret.” ~ The Anxiety and Depression Association of America (ADAA).
The ADAA offers an excellent overview that is worth reading, but unfortunately they do not offer any of the nutritional solutions that we know can eliminate these uncomfortable intrusive thoughts.
GABA support with the amino acid GABA
Assessing for and addressing low GABA levels is the first place I start because you get results so quickly if low GABA is one of the root causes.
Jacqueline shared this on the Facebook post about intrusive thoughts: “GABA definitely helped me with this! Also meditation has helped me to learn to stay present. The two combined are helpful.”
Tiffany shares how Source Naturals GABA Calm helps her: “I have definitely noticed that sublingual GABA Calm that you suggest helps calm my overactive brain.”
Elicia offered this input about GABA on the seasonality of GABA blog and needing more in winter:
I use GABA Calm and usually take 1 or 2 a day. The past two days I’ve taken 4 because I suspected that I needed an increase.
I take it for physical anxiety, insomnia and intrusive thoughts. My symptoms had been worsening recently. The increased GABA seems to be helping.
Intrusive thoughts is one of the symptoms on the low GABA section of the Amino Acids Mood Questionnaire: “Have intrusive thoughts, perseverate or have an overactive brain or have unwanted thoughts – thoughts about unpleasant memories, images or worries.”
This is not in my book or on the original questionnaire but was added in 2017 based on new GABA research on intrusive thoughts. I blogged about this here: GABA helps with inhibition of unwanted thoughts (and have added more recent supporting research on the glutamate/GABA balance i.e. increased glutamatergic excitation and reduced GABAergic inhibition.)
Serotonin support with the amino acid 5-HTP (or tryptophan)
Assessing for and addressing low serotonin levels would be the next step for the same reason – you get results so quickly if low serotonin is one of the root causes.
Yosef shared this about his anxiety, panic and intrusive thoughts on the GABA blog on intrusive thoughts hoping low GABA might be his root cause, with GABA as a solution:
I have issues with intrusive thoughts that present daily challenges. On top of that, I have been living with anxiety and panic issues for so long that I have adjusted to the limitations (I work from home, order pretty much everything online and have a very tolerant wife). I’ve been trying mindfulness for the intrusive thoughts, but if GABA might help with that and the panic (and perhaps help me unlearn the agoraphobia) that would be awesome. Imagine being able to go on vacations with my wife!! I’m ordering some and will give it a shot.
About 6 weeks later he shared that he didn’t notice a drastic difference with GABA but that serotonin support did help. He used 5-HTP and shared these wonderful results after using it for only a week:
What did make a difference is 5-HTP (Now – 100mg). I’ve been using it for a week so far. It was recommended by Dr. Amen (the brain doctor) who says it is helpful with OCD, intrusive thoughts, and the like. You take it before going to sleep. It used to be that I had trouble falling asleep because of the “noise” in my head – random anxious thoughts, jumpiness. I would usually need to have something playing (podcast, music, anything) to help me fall asleep. So far, on 5-HTP I find it easier to fall asleep, I don’t have to search for the right podcast, etc. I just feel really tired and fall asleep.
He did a trial of GABA and then a trial of 5-HTP when GABA didn’t help. This is exactly what I would have done. Tryptophan is also an option when 5-HTP is not tolerated.
You’ll see intrusive thoughts listed as “Obsessive thoughts or behaviors” on the low serotonin section of the Amino Acids Mood Questionnaire
5-HTP and tryptophan are listed in this paper: Nutraceuticals in the treatment of obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD): a review of mechanistic and clinical evidence.
Low zinc and low vitamin B6 (and pyroluria)
Low zinc and low vitamin B6 is common with the social anxiety condition called pyroluria. Kez shared how addressing pyroluria/pyrrole disorder resolved her intrusive or ruminating thoughts:
I noticed after being diagnosed with pyrolle disorder that when I had been taking zinc and vitamin B6 supps for a couple of years, the ruminating thoughts left me and my head was peaceful.
Before starting on the zinc and vitamin B6, she described her intrusive thoughts as follows:
Everything would go around and around in my head, it never stopped. And if my son was a few minutes late home, I would picture him in an accident dead on the side of the road. All really negative stuff. When I realised it had stopped it was such a relief.
She confirmed that she didn’t use 5-HTP/tryptophan or GABA. However the pyroluria protocol helps with the production of GABA and serotonin, and also helps to balance sex hormones (more on that below).
You’ll see “Neurotransmitter imbalances, especially low serotonin” on the Pyroluria Questionnnaire.
In one study, Alterations of serum zinc, copper, manganese, iron, calcium, and magnesium concentrations and the complexity of interelement relations in patients with obsessive-compulsive disorder, patients with obsessive-compulsive disorder had low zinc, iron and magnesium.
In another study, Depressive Symptoms in Middle-Aged and Elderly Women Are Associated with a Low Intake of Vitamin B6: A Cross-Sectional Study, they looked at anxiety symptoms like “feeling tense, restless, or panicky; feeling something awful will happen; having worrying thoughts” and low vitamin B6.
Hormonal imbalances: more than 3 x the intrusive thoughts
In this study summary, Hormone levels may provide key to understanding psychological disorders in women, the authors share that “a common symptom of mood and anxiety problems is the tendency to experience repetitive and unwanted thoughts. These ‘intrusive thoughts’ often occur in the days and weeks after a stressful experience.” In this particular study the women watched a 14-minute stressful film containing death or injury and then salivary hormone levels were measured.
In this study “women in the ‘early luteal’ phase… had more than three times as many intrusive thoughts.” The luteal phase happens after ovulation i.e. about 16 to 20 days after the start of their period.
The authors conclude that “Women at a particular stage in their monthly menstrual cycle may be more vulnerable to some of the psychological side-effects associated with stressful experiences.”
If your intrusive thoughts ramp up in the luteal phase it’s important to consider the role of hormone imbalances.
But keep in mind that the pyroluria protocol also helps to balance sex hormones. And that tryptophan and GABA help to balance hormones too: Tryptophan for PMS: premenstrual dysphoria, mood swings, tension, and irritability.
As I mentioned above, I typically like to start with addressing low serotonin and/or low GABA because the amino acids offer quick relief, and they give you time to dig deeper into other causes like hormonal imbalances. I also always consider pyroluria with anyone who is anxious so that’s high on the list too. We can see results in a week when we figure out the correct doses.
In part 2, I share one woman’s story of how a lifetime of horrible and bizarre intrusive thoughts were eliminated by a low carb/high fat diet (not as strict as keto).
Stay tuned for part 3 of this blog where I’ll address other possible root causes of intrusive thoughts: low magnesium, low iron, gluten issues, discontinuation syndrome, Lyme disease, mold toxicity, heavy metals, toxins, infections, TBI and trauma.
Resources if you are new to using GABA and 5-HTP/tryptophan as supplements
If you are new to using the the amino acids GABA or 5-HTP/tryptophan as supplements, here is the Amino Acids Mood Questionnaire from The Antianxiety Food Solution (you can see the low GABA and other low neurotransmitter symptoms) and a brief overview here: Anxiety and targeted individual amino acid supplements: a summary.
If you suspect low levels of GABA or low serotonin and do not yet have my book, The Antianxiety Food Solution – How the Foods You Eat Can Help You Calm Your Anxious Mind, Improve Your Mood, and End Cravings, I highly recommend getting it and reading it before jumping in and using amino acids so you are knowledgeable. And be sure to share it with the team you or your loved one is working with.
The book doesn’t include product names (per the publisher’s request) so this blog, The Antianxiety Food Solution Amino Acid and Pyroluria Supplements, lists the GABA products that I use with my individual clients and those in my group programs.
We appreciate Katelyn for writing the article I shared and everyone for being willing to share their stories so we can all learn and feel better.
Let’s change this and talk about intrusive thoughts so we don’t have to feel alone and so we can find solutions. As Katelyn says: “If you struggle with intrusive thoughts, share them. The more we share these experiences, the better we can understand ourselves and others and the more we can help one another. Know you are not alone.”
I’ll add this: and share your success with nutritional solutions when something works for you. Share it with your friends and your health practitioner.
Did you know intrusive thoughts are a ‘thing,’ or did you think it was just you?
Has any of the above helped you: GABA, 5-HTP or tryptophan, zinc and/or vitamin B6?
And have you observed more intrusive thoughts after ovulation and before your next period?
Feel free to ask your questions here too.
I would like to take the GABA Calm, but I believe it has sorbitol —is there another chewable or sublingul???
Millie
I have folks who want to avoid sorbitol use a GABA only product or GABA/theanine product and open the capsule, or use a GABA powder. There is also Quicksilver Scientific Liposomal GABA with L-Theanine. It’s effective but some folks struggle with the taste. You can find all the products I recommend here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-pyroluria-supplements/
If you have intrusive thoughts please do share more and let us know how GABA helps,
I do have intrusive thoughts/OCD. It’s worse at certain times during the month I think. I saw this product and would like your thoughts.
CALMAGAIN™
750 mg of
GABA
200 mg of
(la Nutraccuticals ” CALMAGAIN’
GABA + 5HTP L-TRYPTOPHAN.
L-THEANINE
§ ASHWAGANDHA
GABA 750 mg. L-Tryptog phan 500 mg. 5-HTP 200 mg.
g. SAM-O, L
All-in-1 Supplen
500 mg of
L-TRYPTOPHAN
200 mg of
L-THEAINE
DIETARY SUPPLEMENT
60 CAPSULES
3,000mgt of
ASHWAGANDHA
Jeanette
I can’t make out this label but don’t recommend combination products as it’s too challenging to increase one of the ingredients without the others. I use the approach outlined in this blog and have clients make dietary changes covered in my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/ With someone with intrusive thoughts/OCD I would highly suspect gluten to be an issue and would remove all sources – food, spices, shampoo etc.
Hi Trudy,
I read your b6 article. I suffer from a bunch of symptoms that few doctors hit the deadend with me. Long story short, I can send you the full blood test that I recently did and it surprised me with few things:
– 2x heterozygous mthfr mutations
– double the amount of b6. I don’t supplement except for 1 month 1-2 months ago when I was using in food nutritional yeast.
– high ferritin
– b12 and folate are fine, homocysteine too
– constant tinnitus
– high pulse, 90 on rest and around 170-180 on a slow running. Thyroid hormones are fine, cholesterol and lipids also.
I was told that probably my body doesn’t activate or metabolises b6 that’s why it accumulates. That excess may mean deficiency but how can I know?
In this case should I supplement with p5p? I’m very confused and not a single doctor around me can tell what is going on.
Peter
I don’t believe the vitamin B6 test is reliable and would be more concerned about high ferritin as a marker of inflammation and/or iron overload.
I recently started taking an antidepressant for OCD and Depression.
Can I take GABA while on medication that affects serotonin?
Thank you!
Pam
Pam
There are no known contraindications with GABA and SSRI use but it’s always best to discuss with the prescribing physician and/or pharmacist.
If you have intrusive thoughts please do share more and let us know how GABA helps. Also, keep in mind, that much of what I’ve shared in this blog helps OCD and depression too.
If you are new to the amino acids (and other anxiety nutrition solutions like real whole food, quality animal protein, fermented foods, organic produce, health fats, gluten/sugar/caffeine removal, blood sugar control, gut health, pyroluria etc) my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” is a great place to start. This approach helps OCD and depression too. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
I would get intrusive thoughts in the form of music , the songs I was working on would play over and over and I couldn’t shut it off , it’s quite tormenting . NAC stopped it , sometimes with one dose sometimes I needed a few days or week of supplementation , but it Always helps! I do take tryphotan everyday helps keep my anxiety to a minimum and I take GABA as needed .
Jean
Thanks for sharing. I’m glad to hear NAC helps. I’ll be covering this in part 2 of the blog. If you’re willing I’ll share your experiences with using it. Can you share more about the tormenting intrusive thoughts and how much NAC you use? Are you aware of toxins you may have been exposed to?
Glad to hear tryptophan and GABA helps too.
Oh my goodness, I’m realizing after reading this that intrusive thoughts are something I’ve had my entire life. As a child, this manifested in thoughts of what might happen to my one stable parent when we were apart. More recently, I feared horrible things happening to my husband or children. Like the author of the original blog wrote, these intrusive thoughts reflect a greater anxiety. But I didn’t realize this until I began experimenting with your protocols.
I first tried GABA when I felt extremely anxious, but not on a regular basis. Next, I added the Pyroluria protocol, which did bring some relief to the intrusive thoughts. Fast forward to today, when I also take 5-HTP, tryptophan and GABA regularly and have noticed a drastic reduction in those thoughts/fears. It’s like a miracle.
My fear level is maybe 15% of what it used to be, if that. I also find that I can use extra GABA at night if I wake up and can’t shut off my mind. It works like a charm to help me get back to sleep. What a blessing to have these animo acids. I’m a calmer, more serene person than I’ve ever been, without (for the most part) the crippling, irrational fears I used to experience. Thank you, as always, Trudy. You are also a tremendous blessing.
Kimberly
Thanks for sharing and so glad to hear you are connecting more and more dots (it’s very common to suddenly realize you’ve had this your entire life). With your amazing results combining everything in this blog you are the poster child for this blog 🙂
I’m curious if the remaining fear/intrusive thoughts are more pronounced in the second half of your cycle?
Next steps would be to get the 15% down to zero by fine-tuning what you are doing and/or looking at some of the solutions I’ll share in part 2 of this blog.
Kimberly
Thank you again for sharing your story here. I’ve shared it as a blog post to give others hope and hopefully give you additional insights for getting your remaining fear/intrusive thoughts down to zero
Here is the new blog https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/drastic-reduction-in-intrusive-thoughts-anxiety-and-fears-and-better-sleep-with-gaba-tryptophan-5-htp-and-the-pyroluria-protocol/
This topic is really fascinating to me. I’m really struggling with PMDD, mood etc. But I also hate eating. Like it sounds so dumb, but it’s just another chore to me. I also get weird psychological problems with food. Eg texture problems with meat make me so nauseous I avoid it, like I can’t eat chicken if it’s too chewy, or if food has been microwaved it freaks me out for some reason, idk it’s honestly such a bizarre problem to have. Eventually I’ll get so hungry I’ll drink protein shakes and tons of granola bars just to function and get it over with. Im trying so hard to eat regular meals but I don’t eat enough because I’m too lazy or too depressed or whatever. When I do make soup or something it takes me like two hours to eat it. Then later I’m frustrated bc I need to eat again and I’m also hungry so I’m more irritated. In any case, I know my nutrition problems are not making it any better but this is such a strange problem I have no idea how to get past it.
Elizabeth
This can be a complex situation as I’m sure you’re aware. I’d work with an eating disorder specialist and explore Avoidant Restrictive Food Intake Disorder (ARFID) – “ARFID is similar to anorexia in that both disorders involve limitations in the amount and/or types of food consumed, but unlike anorexia, ARFID does not involve any distress about body shape or size, or fears of fatness.” https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/learn/by-eating-disorder/arfid)
However, with ARFID there are aversions, fears and worries about certain foods – so I would also want to look into low serotonin and address this with tryptophan or 5-HTP if there are other low serotonin symptoms. It’s something I do with all conditions regardless of diagnosis and helps PMDD and mood issues. Low GABA is also always considered when there is anxiety, PMDD and mood.
Reading this I also think low endorphins and lack of joy (in shopping for food, cooking and eating) and low catecholamines (and no motivation/feeling blah). There are amino acids that support these imbalances too.
I’d suspect possible gut, gluten and dairy issues (a case here https://www.psychiatrist.com/pcc/eating/gluten-disorder-and-lactose-intolerance-concomitant-with-avoidantrestrictive-food-intake-disorder/).
In summary I like to see a full functional medicine and nutritional workup – as with any condition. And the psychological support too, including addressing past or current trauma if needed.
Specialized nutritional/functional medicine autism practitioners are an excellent resource for the addressing the food/texture/sensory aspect, as are occupational therapists who work with autism patients. However they typically don’t address what I’ve covered in this blog post and the other work I do.
Can i use Gaba and oer 5 Htp when i an already using Nuxak for depression. But the nuzak does not help for anxiety. The nuzak make it worse and it keep me from my sleep at night. Can i use these product’s with my stomabag. Please help. Regards Jane.
Jane
I did respond to the GABA part on the other blog. I have had clients use GABA with Nuzak (Fluoxetine) and there are no known contraindications.
I have clients read this blog and work with and discuss with the prescribing doctor as there is the risk of serotonin syndrome with SSRIs and 5-HTP. https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/taper-from-antidepressant-tryptophan-amino-acids/
I have not had anyone with a stoma bag use GABA or 5-HTP but don’t expect it to be a problem especially if it’s used sublingually and doesn’t go through the digestive system. I would discuss both amino acids with the doctor to be sure.
And read and share my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” with the doctor. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
It’s so comforting to know that you are not the only one that has this problem & that there are logical reasons for why you do. For example, I don’t have a fear of heights but I get very anxious driving on long steep bridges over water, so much so that I will drive faster to get off ASAP. It also stresses me to have any vehicles beside me while on it. My mind fears being driven or pushed off the bridge into the water below.
My mother has these same fears but she is afraid of heights & also water because she can’t swim. I also get anxious if I am on a tall mountain looking out over the edge or at the top of a skyscraper looking down over the edge because it makes me feel like I might fall/jump off, which of course I wouldn’t do nor want to. My mind is never quiet either. It will literally make up its own song notes that play over & over again until I actively focus on something else. It’s exhausting!
Martha
I’m so glad this blog is comforting and yes you are not alone. Thanks for sharing your intrusive thoughts so others can relate and feel less alone too.
Hopefully this blog and part 2 will provide some insights for nutritional solutions for you – for your intrusive thoughts and busy mind
Thanks so much for this blog. I have struggled with intrusive thoughts since I was 16 (now 52) with really serious consequences because it was so impossible not to identify as a ‘bad self’. I was also a straight As ‘good girl’ high achiever so the juxtaposition of these awful thoughts that began in an instant was too much and led to years of painful struggles with anxiety and coping mechanisms. I can honestly say they totally derailed my life path and caused intense suffering. Being sensitive it was just too much and nobody at that time talked about intrusive thoughts. Two siblings also struggled.
I started taking Gaba recently mainly to help sleep (which it has) but I have not heard of sublingual GABA. I take Moss Nutrition Sereniselect. Trudy do you think opening the capsule and putting the powder on the tongue would help? I think there is a lessening of the thoughts but at the same time I’ve also developed a little mindfulness and self-compassion practice. However I do think my supplementation in the last 2 years has had much impact on a biological and neurological level. I did try 5 HTP but felt quite ‘wired’ when I was on it. I’d love your advice on perhaps trying the sublingual approach and if the Sereniselect isn’t suitable what would you suggest.
Thank you SO SO much for writing about this.. its good for people to know they are not alone 🙂
Pk
Sorry to hear you’ve struggled with this for so long but glad to hear this resonates with you. Feel free to share details of your intrusive thoughts if you feel comfortable. This may we don’t feel so alone.
Good to hear you think there is a lessening of the thoughts. Sublingual GABA like Source Naturals GABA Calm is often more effective than swallowing capsules. Or yes opening the capsule onto the tongue is another option – much less is typically needed and better results are seen.
I blogged about the 5-HTP wired effects here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/does-5-htp-make-you-wired-tired-and-affect-your-sleep-when-cortisol-is-high-yes-and-not-sure-and-no-5-htp-was-miraculous/ We trial tryptophan instead. I am aware that Moss Nutrition is not a fan of tryptophan.
When you are new to the amino acids (and other anxiety nutrition solutions like real whole food, quality animal protein, fermented foods, organic produce, health fats, gluten/sugar/caffeine removal, blood sugar control, gut health, pyroluria etc) my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” is a great place to start. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/ It’s diet and the supplements – I’ll share more about diet and intrusive thoughts in part 2 of the blog.
If you find you need guidance I do have online group programs like the GABA Quickstart.
Hi Trudy
Thanks so much for your reply and those very helpful links. Actually I didn’t mention but three years ago I was diagnosed with Lupus and Dermatomyositis and as a result of the traditional immunesuppressant/steroid approach making everything much worse I ended up finding my way to Functional Medicine and labs showed high heavy metal toxicity, some viral issues and led to my becoming gluten/dairy/sugar free, becoming wholefoods plant-based and only eating wild caught fish/grass fed meat.
I’ve also been following you after seeing you on the summit that Dr Apigian did and also read Dr Daniel Amen’s work around supplements/nuturition for great brain health. Someone mentioned SAMe above which he recommends as well as saffron, omega 3s, GABA, tryptophan etc.
There is a whole field of psychology now in this area of intrusive thoughts called Pure O (pure OCD) but not many people have really looked at the underlying brain issues involved. I know of someone who similarly struggled and was prescribed Zoloft which seems to be the go to for this particular struggle. I do know that it is a terrifying experience, especially when it begins at a young age as it did for me. I was an incredibly sensitive teenager, a straight A student and on a scholarship at a London music school in the junior department at weekends studying two instruments. I was also sitting entrance exams to one of the best universities in the country and overnight these thoughts began. They were incredibly real and destructive and I felt I had no power to switch them off. I crumbled utterly, unable to concentrate and spent my days in terror. It took years to climb out. AS everyone who struggles with them describes, you believe you are going to perform them. I watched another family member go through this again, with devastating consequences. No one around us was willing or equipped to provide the needed support.
Now more people are speaking about it – I believe there was a Netflix series about it. Thank you for stepping in with the needed brain chemistry piece that doesn’t involve pharmaceuticals. I know Dr Amen has done a podcast on this too. I think what is often missed about this struggle when it comes to treatment, is that the onset of Pure O is in itself a trauma. It isn’t simply the intrusive thoughts that need addressing but the undermining of ones whole sense of self and identity. This is extremely traumatic and strikes at the core of self worth and ones understanding of oneself in the world. You simply go from having a brain free of these to suddenly feeling like the world has changed forever. And so the treatment and resolution of the thoughts and the experience must necessarily involve both addressing the brain chemistry and healing the trauma of it happening.
I’m sorry that is such a long ramble but I feel its such an important area. Many are suffering and to bring the light of truth and hope in a fuller way would be tremendous. Thanks again.
PK
Thank you for adding this additional valuable information about Pure O (pure OCD) and what you experienced (quite terrifying and what an impact it had).
Are you referring to what they describe in this paper: Clinical features of pure obsessive-compulsive disorder https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23746710/ “Psychiatric comorbidity is the rule in obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD); however, very few studies have evaluated the clinical characteristics of patients with no co-occurring disorders (non-comorbid or “pure” OCD)….Pure OCD patients were the minority in this large sample and were characterized by female sex, less severe depressive and anxious symptoms, less suicidal thoughts and less use of psychotherapy as a treatment modality.”
If you have the name of the Netflix series please do share it. If you have any other links to where you learned about Pure O that would be helpful too.
And yes I can see how the onset is itself traumatic too and yes both need to be addressed. Dr. Aimie Apigian’s somatic work combined with functional medicine is invaluable.
Hopefully we can get the message out about this and the brain chemistry piece (and other biochemical causes) which don’t involve pharmaceuticals.
Hi Pk,
I too suffer from PUREO and the taboo thoughts have been attacking me since childhood. I am 33 now, and still struggle. The thoughts have robbed me of having a full life and they have definitely made me question who I am. Thank you for sharing as making me feel less alone!
I have played in the KETO realm and OCD got worse. I’m just starting NAC and cod liver oil, told by doctors I can’t take Gaba as Im on SSRI and very low dose Seroquel for sleep. Frustrating.
Did you find relief at all? The financial hardships PUREO has created continues on – $280 an hour therapy sessions, naturopath appointments, missed work for mental health days, etc. Debt and more debt to just try and survive to the next day.
Thanks again for sharing! I hope you have found relief from the debilitating thoughts.
Hello. I have an 11 year old son with OCD/PANDAS. He is on 50 mg of clomipromine but we’ve not seen much success. Do you think 5 HTP would be a good thing to try with him and if so what would be the starting dose? We’ve tried NAC and Inisitol as well, but seen no real improvement. Thank you.
Kathleen
I have clients read this blog and work with and discuss with their prescribing doctor as there is the risk of serotonin syndrome with this medication and 5-HTP/tryptophan https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/taper-from-antidepressant-tryptophan-amino-acids/
If this is not possible I’ve had client’s work with a knowledgeable pharmacist (with the doctor’s monitoring) or find a new doctor or share my book with him.
When you are new to the amino acids (and other anxiety nutrition solutions like real whole food, quality animal protein, fermented foods, organic produce, health fats, gluten/sugar/caffeine removal, blood sugar control, gut health, pyroluria etc) my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” is a great place to start. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
Hi Trudy! I have loved all your wonderful insight and suggestions with anxiety. I see patients daily with anxiety, pyroluria, etc and would love to start implementing some of your techniques. Do you still offer a neurotransmitter course? I’d love to take a course to become more familiar with tryptophan, five HTP etc. I did purchase your book and plan on reading it this next week as I go on vacation. Many blessings to you.
Tara
Thanks for your kind words and I’m thrilled you’d like to do the amino acid training for practitioners. As well as the valuable content, it’s an opportunity to interact with me and other practitioners who are also using the amino acids and pyroluria protocol. More here https://www.anxietynutritioninstitute.com/balancingneurotransmitters/
My book is a great resource too – for you as a practitioner and to have your clients read it too. Enjoy your vacation!
Trudy,
Your work has provided many missing pieces to the puzzle, thank you!
My questions are regarding B6: I’ve taken Niacin before and flushed so badly, I am hesitant to take it on its own. As I research non-flush B6, all the articles come up saying “don’t take it”. I don’t know if that is today’s day and age of censorship or if this is legit? How would you recommend taking B6? How much? Thoughts on a non-flush version? Is a B Complex a good alternative?
Hia
Glad you’re finding missing puzzle pieces. If it’s for intrusive thoughts feel free to share details if you feel comfortable. This may we don’t feel so alone.
I think you may be confusing niacin which is vitamin B3 with vitamin B6. As far as vitamin B6 goes there is not a flush nor non-flush version.
A good B complex is always recommended when individual B vitamins are used. Folks who have pyroluria need vitamin B6 over and above this with the starting dose 100mg.
My book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” has an entire chapter on pyroluria with vitamin B6 (and zinc) dosing/timing and forms as it can be nuanced. It is always individualized. More here about my book https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
Hi Trudy,
I was able to help my anxiety/insomnia using melatonin , tryptophan and the occasional use of gaba. They were seriously life changing.
I am now 15 weeks pregnant and have stopped using tryptophan and GABA and my mental health is suffering.
Is there anything safe to use while pregnant ? I’m still taking a low dose melatonin, but it’s certainly not helping.
Thank you !!!
Jenna
Neither tryptophan or GABA have been studied during pregnancy and breastfeeding but a free form amino acid blend (that does contain tryptophan) is often very helpful.
Other approaches to improve mood, reduce anxiety and help with sleep include exercise, yoga, diet and bright light therapy/full spectrum light, tapping/EFT, vagus nerve support. Dr. Aviva Romm writes about herbs for anxiety and specifies which are safe https://avivaromm.com/7-herbs-anxiety/
If you are new to other anxiety nutrition solutions like gluten/sugar/caffeine removal, blood sugar control, gut health, pyroluria etc) my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” is a great place to start. Much of this helps with low mood, cravings and insomnia too. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
Thank you!
Hello Trudy. I am curious as to why manganese is included in the list of items to address pyroluria. I score 28 on the questionnaire and organic acid tests show low B6 and the zinc Talley test tastes like water that makes my mouth dry. On urinary neurotransmitter tests, my serotonin and dopamine are always low, and my PEA is always very low, too. Could you give a little information on why manganese is included in the pyroluria protocol?
Also, can you recommend a good multi vitamin that does not contain methylfolate? I am one of those people where methylfolate builds up on me and when I consistently take vitamins that contain methylfolate, my serotonin gets destroyed and my adrenaline production is increased. When this happened, I was taking a multivitamin from Thorne and they sent me a medical research paper that shows methylfolate has an 8 WEEK a half-life when it reaches steady state.
Sally
Manganese is one of the nutrients Dr. Carl Pfeiffer identified in his work.
Dr. Ben Lynch may have a multi without methylfolate
Seroyal has a liquid B multi that does not contain methylfolate
Hello Trudy,
I have started designs by health inositol at 12 grams for anxiety and ocd. So far I believe it is helping. A few concerns or questions I have is does inositol feed Candida? Does it lower testosterone for everyone and therefore problematic if we don’t have pcos? And how does it effect someone with sibo as far as digestion and bowel movements? I’ll be happy with advice on any or all of these as I am having a hard time finding the answers. Thank you!
Sabrina
Good to hear inositol is helping. I’m not aware of any issues with candida or being problematic if someone doesn’t have PCOS. It can be an issue with IBS/SIBO and cause some bloating.
With anxiety and OCD we also look into and address low serotonin too.
Wow, I never knew that depression is an illness that could affect a person’s thought process once their intrusive thoughts start to take over. I think it should be a priority to get yourself checked when this illness starts to kick in within your daily routines. I’ll probably do the same thing and find a treatment center that can help me by then.
Zachary
Unfortunately treatment centers are often not aware of nutritional approaches. If you are new to the amino acids (and other anxiety nutrition solutions like real whole food, quality animal protein, fermented foods, organic produce, health fats, gluten/sugar/caffeine removal, blood sugar control, gut health, pyroluria etc) my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” is a great place to start. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
Wonderful post Trudy. Yes I see this kind of symptom in anxious kids a lot. Sometimes they are categorized as depressed or put on mood stabilizers but often the intrusive thoughts remain or other symptoms like focus or motivation get worse. This is a great post that will help a lot of people feel less alone… which is one of those intrusive thoughts in the first place!. Hope is an important first step towards healing. So thank you for taking the time and for your diligence with all the research to back up the experience.
Jess
Thanks for sharing and it’s unfortunate that anxious kids experience this too and are then prescribed meds rather than getting at the root cause. Glad you’re there to help families navigate this. And yes to hope!
Kids feel scared and ashamed at their thoughts just like adults do. I’m sharing this useful article for other blog readers because she explains some of this in kids: “When kids have ‘bad thoughts’, it can be extremely confusing for them, terrifying in some instances. These thoughts can be violent, where the child has thoughts of harming or even killing one or both of their parents; other thoughts can be sexual in nature, malicious, mean or obsessive. While sometimes thoughts can be extreme in these ways, other times thoughts can be less intrusive but none-the-less upsetting.” https://drjodirichardson.com/thoughts-are-not-facts/
I appreciate her tips for parents but don’t agree that we should be normalizing this. She says “We all have what kids will often refer to as ‘bad thoughts’ from time to time” and that “they are completely normal.”
What examples of intrusive thoughts have you had kids (or their parents) share with you and how often do you see this?
You bring up a really good point about normalizing. I think with kids we have to walk a fine line between “normalizing” and “pathologizing”. The crux of the problem really is that parents often feel so alone… they’re left wondering “is this normal? is this just my kid being a kid? or is something wrong?” And it’s hard to figure out sometimes because when they look around, so many kids are struggling so what is “normal” is not necessarily “healthy”, you know?
I suggest to parents that they actually get to decide whether what they are seeing in their child is healthy. Does what they see meet their criteria of health and wellbeing? Is it what they want for their kids? Is it ok with them? If not the let’s look into how we can support their bodies better, instead of comparing them to other children. It’s a different way of thinking. They very often know in their gut, when something is off… whether there’s a diagnosis or not.
As for your question, I see intrusive thoughts taking all kinds forms… from “I’m so stupid, I’m not going to try” to “I can do better, it’s not perfect yet” to the very dark “everybody hates me and I hate everybody” kind of feeling. Lots of worry and fear too… especially at night. I also see it in their parents sometimes. When they come to me they often feel some degree of “I’m a failure” because they somehow feel like they could have done something to prevent this. And that often snowballs into dark thoughts about both the past and the future.
I’m grateful for what I’ve learned from your practitioner trainings about using amino acids safely, because they absolutely help ease the pressure while we dig.
Jess
Thanks for sharing this perspective on parents actually deciding whether what they are seeing in their child is healthy.
I feel they also are better able to do that when they have knowledge about biochemical impacts/nutrition and also being open to the many possible adverse effects of meds. As you know, Accutane (for acne), Miralax (for constipation) and Singular (for allergies) can trigger neuropsychiatric symptoms, and SSRIs can have adverse effects increasing the risk for suicidal ideation in teens and younger children.
I see what you describe as intrusive thoughts more as lack of confidence, low self-esteem, negative self-talk, perfectionism and maybe even some anger – all of which are signs of low serotonin (as are fear and worry). And I have to wonder how much kids open up about the really dark intrusive thoughts (per my previous comment).
So glad to get the feedback about the amino acids helping to ease the pressure while you dig deeper. I wholeheartedly agree
Since I started taking Ashwagandha, B6, zinc and tryptophan I’m more calm and have fewer symptoms of anxiety and OCD. I already feel good and it’s been 2 weeks. Very accurate your particle.
Daniel
Wonderful to hear
Hi Trudy,
I suffer with OCD and i am tapering off an antidepressant. I cannot tolerate the synthetic amino acids 5htp, Tryptophan, glycine, taurine, L-carnitine, theanine (makes me too alert). When i take them, my head gets heavy and i get anxiety and it is hard to function. But i can tolerate Gaba and phenylalanine. Do you know why? I take protein powders and herbs to stimulate serotonin. Do you have any suggestions? Also, i am a vegan and i cannot eat meat or other animal products. There has to be a very nutritious plant diet that is beneficial for the brain. Thank you!
Rean
Too high a dose of some amino acids can be too stimulating so we explore using lower doses with my clients.
GABA is synthetic so I don’t feel it has anything to do with how the amino acid is produced. Fillers may be a factor to look into.
As you’ve read in my book, The Antianxiety Food solution, a good quality diet with animal protein is ideal for mood, anxiety, OCD. If a plant diet is chosen, using a free form amino acid can help and addressing common deficiencies as needed: low zinc, low iron, low omega-3s, low carnitine, low B12 etc
I suffer with intrusive thoughts and mild anxiety. I have been on GABA since 2011 to help. My problem is, I respond so well at doses 500mg (used to take 1000mg) but then will predictably suffer quite significant low blood pressure as a result. I increase sodium but it’s still not enough to counteract the low BP. I have recently tried going down to 200mg and I have noticed the intrusive thoughts have returned.
Jenn
Wonderful to hear GABA helps with intrusive thoughts and mild anxiety. I’m curious to hear how much GABA shifts blood pressure and if you experience symptoms with this? And if you’ve trialed the same total dose split 2-3 times a day with the same results?
Depressed and crying one minute and 10 minutes later it dissipated. I have struggled with deep depression , crying and hopelessness since I was 15- Now 52. On my first IV vitamin drip with zinc, b complex, b12 and vitamin C my mood leveled, no longer depressed and my tears stopped flowing. AMAZING– Now I try to get one a week but this is expensive. It usually lasts me about 4 days and then my mood starts to dip again. I take the same thing in supplement but it does not seem to help. Could it be I am not taking enough?? What dose have you used these vitamins for severe depression? How high can I go with the oral supplements?
Thank you