Are you aware that collagen and gelatin lower serotonin and may increase your anxiety and depression and worsen sleep? I blogged about this in 2017 and how susceptible individuals who are prone to low serotonin need to be aware of this and use 5-HTP or tryptophan to counter these effects. (You can read that blog here: Collagen and gelatin lower serotonin: does this increase your anxiety and depression?)
I’m sharing an example today from one of the many comments on the above blog as a reminder or in case this is new to you. It’s not well-recognized as being an issue even amongst practitioners and producers of collagen. This is also one of my most commented-on blogs so it’s clearly a big issue. And gelatin and collagen continue to become more and more popular.
As a reminder, gelatin is derived from collagen: when collagen breaks down, it becomes gelatin. Also, collagen and gelatin are an excellent source of these amino acids: proline, glycine, glutamine and arginine, but they do not contain the amino acid tryptophan, so they have the potential to lower serotonin levels.
Tryptophan-depletion studies have been done for years – using a tryptophan-deficient amino acid mixture – as a way to study the relationship between low serotonin and depression.
More recently, collagen and gelatin are being used in these tryptophan-depletion studies because they do not contain the amino acid tryptophan. This paper, Pharmacokinetics of acute tryptophan depletion using a gelatin-based protein in male and female Wistar rats, summarizes what we find in a number of studies that use gelatin for the purpose of lowering serotonin levels (in order to study the relationship between serotonin and mood issues):
The essential amino acid tryptophan is the precursor of the neurotransmitter serotonin. By depleting the body of tryptophan, brain tryptophan and serotonin levels are temporarily reduced.
What does this mean? If you consume gelatin or collagen, you end up depleting the body of tryptophan and serotonin levels are reduced for a short time. This can cause the classic low serotonin symptoms of anxiety, worry, panic attacks, fears, phobias, insomnia, PMS, afternoon and evening carb cravings, TMJ, PMS and even anger issues and obsessions/ruminations.
For Enid, adding gelatin to her weight-loss shake powder triggered the anxiety she used to experience:
I wanted to give you a sincere thanks for all the work you’ve done on this blog and for studying collagen and serotonin. I have been taking quite a bit of gelatin because I started a medically supervised weight-loss program a month ago and was adding the shake powder to gelatin to thicken it. I have a long history of anxiety but it has been better for several years. However, I have been really concerned because my heart hurts with anxiety like I used to have. So your article and the follow up comments have helped me since I would have continued to eat a lot of it But now I will stop. So thank you.
Edid also shared how the gelatin she was consuming lowered her blood sugar in 2 weeks:
What’s interesting is in 2 weeks of being on the diet and eating a lot of gelatin my glucose went from 190 (which is diabetes) to 113 which is perfectly normal. I’ve read that collagen lowers blood sugar. So hopefully it will stay down even after stopping eating gelatin.
I found it very interesting to learn about Enid’s lowered glucose and that it went down so much in just 2 weeks.
So I went looking into the research and found this paper, Therapeutic effects of marine collagen peptides on Chinese patients with type 2 diabetes mellitus and primary hypertension, stating that marine collagen “significantly reduced levels of fasting blood glucose.” The study concluded that marine collagen:
may benefit glucose and lipid metabolism, insulin sensitivity, renal function and hypertension management in Chinese patients with T2DM [type 2 diabetes] and hypertension.
This research is new to me and is a good reason to continue with gelatin or collagen and address why it’s causing her anxiety to ramp again after just 2 weeks.
My message in this blog post – Collagen and gelatin lower serotonin: does this increase your anxiety and depression? – is not to stop gelatin or collagen, but rather help you to figure out if your consumption of collagen or gelatin is causing your anxiety, depression or insomnia (or other low serotonin symptoms), or making it worse.
Once you have made this connection then you need to figure out what the mechanism is. The fact that the consumption of collagen and gelatin lower serotonin is one possible factor for susceptible folks. The easiest way to figure out if it is low serotonin for you is to do a trial of tryptophan or 5-HTP while continuing to consume gelatin or collagen and see if your new symptoms resolve. (You can read more about that here: Tryptophan for the worry-in-your-head and ruminating type of anxiety)
I would love your feedback. Do you use gelatin or collagen regularly i.e. daily or weekly? And why do you use it? How do you use it and what benefits do you notice?
Have you noticed an increase in anxiety or worsening of mood or any of the other low serotonin symptoms? Do you take tryptophan or 5-HTP to offset the fact that gelatin or collagen doesn’t contain any tryptophan and does that help?
Have you done the off/on test with collagen/gelatin and tryptophan or 5-HTP – and what was the outcome?
Have you found collagen or gelatin helped to lower your high glucose levels?
Feel free to post your questions here too.
Wow! I did not know. My sleep has been affected since taking collagen but had not made the connection. Will start taking tryptophan and see what happens.
Thank You!!!
Toni
Thanks for sharing – keep us posted
Apologies for the delay in your comment approval and my response. We had a computer glitch where a large number of comments were hidden from view in a spam folder. It mostly affected new folks who were commenting for the first time but it’s hopefully resolved now.
I get pitches for collagen from half a dozen companies. None ever mention the possible (and serious) depression/anxiety connection. I was eating collagen every day during one of the most stressful times in my life. I wonder how much worse that made things for me. Now I only do collagen once or twice a week and only with supplemental tryptophan or 5-HTP.
Does bone broth have the same issue?
I was taught in nutrition class that proteins are broken down into individual aminos, so wouldn’t collagen just break down into aminos and have no special benefits for bones and joints over any other protein? Yet, people claim the collagen studies show benefits.
So bone broth is not good?
Elaine
Thanks for sharing. I’d love to hear how much supplemental tryptophan or 5-HTP you use when using collagen? and do you only use it on days you use collagen? And which symptoms it prevents for you?
As I said to Lisa I’m afraid I don’t know about bone broth. Have you observed this effect? According to this paper, bone broth doesn’t have the same high levels of collagen precursors as collagen itself so I suspect it doesn’t – Bone Broth Unlikely to Provide Reliable Concentrations of Collagen Precursors Compared With Supplemental Sources of Collagen Used in Collagen Research https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29893587/
However it implies the benefits of bone broth are not due to it’s collagen content so I’m going to have to dig deeper into this.
And yes I’ve reached out to a number of collagen companies and practitioners who sell collagen/gelatin and they all dismiss my concerns.
That being said there is research that supports it’s many benefits (which is why my message is not to stop if you are seeing benefits):
– Osteoarthritis – Collagen hydrolysate for the treatment of osteoarthritis and other joint disorders: a review of the literature https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17076983/
– Joint pain – Effect of collagen hydrolysate in articular pain: a 6-month randomized, double-blind, placebo controlled study https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22500661/
– Skin health – Oral supplementation of specific collagen peptides has beneficial effects on human skin physiology: a double-blind, placebo-controlled study https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23949208/
I take 100 mg 5-HTP with 15-20 g collagen protein. Otherwise, I don’t take 5-HTP unless I’m having a mood dip. I do take daily free-form essential aminos.
When I did collagen daily, I had anxiety, irritability and difficulty sleeping. I have not seen symptoms with bone broth, but I mostly eat the shelf-stable bone broth that may not have much collagen.
I’ve emailed collagen companies about this issue, too, and did not receive any replies, from companies who answered my queries before and since.
If collagen’s benefits are real, it challenges the theory that all you need is the right balance of essential aminos (See Minkoff, The Search for the Perfect Protein). Even if that theory is true, it’s questionable that we’re smart enough to determine the “right balance” and that it works for every individual.
Thanks for your important work in this area!
I found gelatin to literally do the opposite in my anxiety, mood, and sleep. There are studies that show the Glycine content can improve sleep and mood. The tryptophan depletion seems to only be a problem if it’s your sole source of protein, otherwise your body should be able to grab tryptophan from other proteins or sources (such as a supplement) or I started using pure cacao powder to make hot chocolate/ cacao nibs for chocolate tea to replace coffee as my morning drink. Chocolate has a high amount of tryptophan, along with theobromine and other flavonoids and antioxidants. Using plain culinary gelatin and cacao powder has given me better results than tryptophan or collagen supplements, both on my body and on my wallet.
Spencer
Thanks for sharing your experience with gelatin – glad it works for you.
This other blog on the topic explains more about why tryptophan depletion happens with collagen/gelatin https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/collagen-gelatin-lower-serotonin-increase-anxiety-depression/
Can you ask you patient how much gelatin is she taking and what was the source? My husband put two large tablespoons of collagen in his coffee several times per day. It make his face look younger and got rid of the large rough pores on his nose. He always is sleepy and takes melatonin at night to sleep. He worries about politics and fears going outside and getting sick from Covid. He gets flu shots and always gets flu two months later. I take collagen and the MCT (Coconut Powder) and my hands feel younger.
Thanks for sharing your good results
I was wondering about bone broth too…I use that daily.
Cathy
Some folks have issues with the higher glutamates/histamine but typically not an issue. Best would be use it and observe/keep a food-mood log
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I suspect taking collagen affects my sleep at times. I fall asleep easily but tend to awaken (bathroom) at 3 or 4 am and don’t always go back to sleep. I take the collagen before noon. At what time of day should I take the tryptophan or 5-HTP? Should it be taken before a meal or just added one of my 5 small meals a day? Long story but I eat about 10 pm (cottage cheese and Greek yogurt) and go to bed about 11:30 or 12.
Mary
Tryptophan/5-HTP is best taken mid-afternoon and evening and way from protein. Please read the amino acids chapter in my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” so you are educated about using the amino acids.
I do take liquid collagen which has not caused anxiety. It has helped with my skin as well as helping with a shoulder impingement which I have had since May. The Liquid bio cell that I take is composed of naturally hydrolyzed collagen type 2 peptides, chondroitin sulfates, and hyaluronic acid.
Cherylann
Good to hear you do well with collagen – thanks for sharing
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I can’t tolerate bone broth or collagen but I’d always attributed that to glutamines converting to the excitotoxin glutamate & then not on to GABA due to a few of my GAD mutations. I take NAC to “mop up” excess glutamates.
For the last 35 years I have recommended for people with joint pain an envelope of gelatin in water or juice, once a day, can resolve the issue within 30 days. Reported in a study from UCLA back in the seventies. The study used chicken cartilage. Everyone that has actually tried it has reported positive results. You can also add a pinch of boron salt (9 micro gms). Vitamin D and magnesium make it almost a sure thing. I suspect 1/4 tspn. baking soda would also help
I am pleasantly surprised to find out about the blood sugar effect. I suspect a good healthy dose of bone broth every day would accomplish the desired result.
Jonathon
Thanks for sharing
Your blog couldn’t have come at a better time, Trudy! I’ve been taking Evergood Bio-active collagen peptides in a green smoothie almost every day since July/August this year. I have had terrible anxiety and depression for much, if not at this time. I also came off antidepressants and a mood stabiliser around the same time as commencing the collagen. I suspect I now have very low serotonin levels. While it’s not uncommon for me to have bouts of anxiety and depression, this current bout is unusually long, even for me and coincides with the commencement of the collagen and the cessation of an SSRI. The other thing that makes me think it is low serotonin is because my sleep has been atrocious! Never in my life have I woken up consistently during the night and found it difficult to get back to sleep. I might add I also often take my smoothie at nighttime. I wondered if the poor sleep was due to cortisol, low blood sugar or other hormonal issues ie. oestrogen or low progesterone but before I look into that I will stop the collagen and recommence Lidtke Tryptophan. Thank you so much, Trudy, for all that you do in educating people about all of these important issues.
Mary
Thanks for sharing. It’s a bit tricky in your situation to know if it was the collagen or coming off the antidepressants and mood stabiliser since both happened at the same time. Adding tryptophan without stopping the collagen (assuming one is getting benefits from collagen) would be another approach.
Thanks Trudy, for now I’ve come off the collagen and started with 1 Tryptophan mid afternoon and at night. I will slowly add the collagen back in the future and see how I go.
Every time I use 5htp I get a painful stabbing sensation in my gut, which goes away after I stop taking 5htp. Any suggestions?
Dan
5-HTP can cause digestive distress in some folks and when this continues to happen after a few weeks I have them try it during a meal or have them switch to tryptophan
Hi Trudy, I just read your post on collagen. What a timing! I started supplementing with collagen a few weeks ago and my anxiety has increased dramatically. I could not pin point why until today! Thank you so much for sharing. What do you recommend I do, try some 5htp and tryptophan? What dose and time would you recommend?I don’t like taking 5htp at night due to vivid dreams and never tried tryptophan. Regards, Patrycja
Patrycja
Thanks for sharing. In the blog (https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/collagen-gelatin-lower-serotonin-increase-anxiety-depression/) I share this for the serotonin solution – do the low serotonin questionnaire and a trial of tryptophan (after checking the precautions) to see if this prevents this reaction when using collagen. Timing and dose depends on each person.
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I have been having collagen powder for two months and feeling increasingly dizzy during the day. I have not felt depressed or any anxiety (except for the first week starting my new job last month) wondering if collagen lowers blood sugar levels if this is what is triggering my dizzy spouts. I am not diabetic, I have been recently tested.
Cynthia
I’m afraid I don’t have an answer as to the mechanism for this but it does show up as side-effect. Could it be changing connective tissue in the ear and causing dizziness? I would try different brands and doses
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dear trudy; im on your email list a long time; and i want to say thanks for all the excellent work you have done and continue to do; briefly i suffer from ocd specially hopeless type depression, anxiety of the worry and ruminating kind, irrrational phobias and fears ;mostly anxious depression; specially as im writing this im feeling depression stemming from loneliness and insecurity; this is a long topic so i wont go into it now; also im on meds like prozac 20 mg per day, abilify 2.5 mg per day, and trifloperazine for anxiety 5 mg per day; ive been told i should not even try tryptophan or 5htp because of prozac and danger of serotonin syndrome; dear trudy please take a few minutes of yr busy schedule and tell me from all yr research how can i wean off the meds and use natural methods only for my issues, how to take tryptophan while still on prozac wo danger of serotonin syndrome , and lastly if you have heard of bach flower remedies, which are especially suitable for emotional issues if you can refer me to a good bfr practitioner in the los angeles area or really anywhere, somebody who can do phone consults;
p.s. im an asian indian man , 65 yo, fyi; and if you need more information before suggesting anything, please do email me from my email id given below
with warm regards
from kanishk nathan
Kanishk
Thanks for your kind words. Best is to read this blog and work with and discuss with your prescribing doctor as there is the risk of serotonin syndrome with SSRIs and tryptophan https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/taper-from-antidepressant-tryptophan-amino-acids/
I have my clients get nutritionally stable BEFORE starting any medication taper (with their doctor’s approval of course) and this prevents many of the adverse effects. This means eating real food, no gluten, no caffeine, no sugar, quality animal protein, eating for blood sugar control and addressing gut health, the adrenals etc (everything I cover in my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” – more here https://www.everywomanover29.com/store/aafsbook.html). And then we use the amino acids during the taper (all with the doctor’s approval and monitoring).
I have heard of bach flower remedies and would use them if they help.
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Could it be the glutamine that is causing anxiety??
Doreen
Yes it could be glutamine too
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Hi Trudy,
Are collagen and gelatin ‘high-Oxalate’ foods/supplements? The drastic change in sleep is making me think so.
Thank you, Trudy!
Carrie
Yes they can lead oxalate issues in those who are susceptible.
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Would this apply to bone broth as well?
Lisa
I’m afraid I don’t know. Have you observed this effect?
According to this paper, bone broth doesn’t have the same high levels of collagen precursors as collagen itself so I suspect it doesn’t – Bone Broth Unlikely to Provide Reliable Concentrations of Collagen Precursors Compared With Supplemental Sources of Collagen Used in Collagen Research https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29893587/
However it implies the benefits of bone broth are not due to it’s collagen content so I’m going to have to dig deeper into this.
This is fascinating; I’ve noticed an issue with taking collagen as well over the last couple of years (it causes an afternoon spike in anxiety when I take it with my lunchtime smoothie), but I had always assumed it was because of unresolved GABA receptor issues ( I weaned myself off of a benzo over the course of 5 years after taking it for 13 years, completely uninformed about the long-term consequences of taking it for so long). I wonder now if it’s more likely due to low serotonin issues (which I certainly have). Thank you for the information!
Heather
Yes the after effects of benzos can do that but if the timing seems to be related to when you do and don’t use collagen that could be a big clue. Thanks for sharing and please keep us posted as to what you discover.
Would this occur if you are still eating a normal diet that has good amounts of tryptophan? The studies show that they are only having gelatin.
Kim
Even with a diet with good levels of tryptophan this does seem to be a problem for some folks who are more susceptible to low serotonin.
I read in a book by Dr. Kelly Brogan to use a tablespoon of gelatin with tea before bed to help you sleep. I have been trying it and waking up with back tension and early
Dawn
Thanks for sharing. I believe it’s the glycine in the gelatin that helps many folks sleep better. However for folks who are prone to low serotonin this may lower serotonin further and cause pain/back tension and early waking (or trouble sleeping)
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I have had several patients who developed this severe depression/anxiety which was determined to be from the collagen. It seems it may also be a histamine source, or releaser.
Julie
Thanks for sharing your experiences. And yes it can be the effects of lowering serotonin, too much histamine and even due to an oxalate issue (I’ll be exploring this in a future blog) or too much arginine.
Have you found a way for your patients to continue with collagen consumption by addressing the serotonin and/or histamine effects?
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Hi Trudy, nice and necessary work you are doing. I recently heard the last broadcast of the summit of one of your colleagues, Johnathan Landsman, about the liver, and I found that his guest correlates these kinds of products, collagen, gelatin, melatonin, etc., all derived from animals, to their consumption of glyphosate, because it occupies the glycine place in the protein formation of their cells, organs, etc. I have been found too that cookies made from non-organic cereals, taken at night, made me anxious. And last but not least, high doses of melatonin give no added power to provoke sleepness, instead the opposite. I think, I am sure that this effect is produced by Glyphosate. What do you think?
Ivan
I’m sure this is a factor when the products are not grass-fed
Re cookies, whether organic or not, I’d be concerned about the gluten and sugar
Not everyone benefits from melatonin and even when someone does the dose can vary considerably
I have made a HUGE DISCOVERY that I hope will help someone. When taking gelatin alone I had crazy unbelievable anxiety but when I added a multi vitamin that had vitamin B12 b2 and iron I had no anxiety and turns out these all support tryptophan levels!
Ps* I also look into to tryptophan supplementation and was too afraid of developing serotonin syndrome and loosing my life
Lexana
Thanks for sharing and yes they do all help serotonin production
Is this the same situation with bone broth? I noticed the same experience when I tried collagen a few years ago. The drop in my mood was so sharp and noticeable that I looked it up and found the connection. I have been trying bone broth powder and I don’t notice the same sharp effect on my mood and mental health and I am curious as to why. I am trying to find ways to heal a damaged gut and don’t think I can take the tryptophan as I take medication for mood.
Kathleen
Some folks are fine with home-made bone broth but have similar issues with store bought bone broth powder because it’s more concentrated.
Recently, I had to, sadly, stopped consuming gelatin, because I was waking up at night more than usual + I was coughing like crazy for 10-20minutes. Sadly, because my sleep score was better and I even felt better. Looks like gelatin was releasing histamine and depleting tryptophan. If I could counter the histamine release, I would gladly go back and just drink with whey protein isolate, which is high in tryptophan – around 1g per 30g scoop.
Is there any way to make it wrok Mrs. Trudy ?
Kordian
And when you stopped gelatin the coughing stopped? I’m not sure of the mechanism but if it is a histamine reaction I’d use other histamine reducing approaches already successfully used for other foods that cause a similar reaction – like zinc, quercetin, vitamin B6, vitamin C etc.
I’d also suspect and want to rule out an actual allergic reaction and if this is the case would have someone avoid gelatin altogether.
Hey
Yes, coughing stopped as soon as I stopped taking gelatin ( 5-10g with my last meal, 1-2hours before bed). When I was eating desserts, that contain gelatin, I didn’t have the coughing problem, but dosages were way smaller and I was waking up in the night more than usual, still affecting my sleep score to be better. They might contain bovine gelatin or just the smaller dose isn’t triggering the histamine release, I’m just guessing.
I’m thinking of trying glycine alone before bed or trying gelatin in the morning, but i’m not sure if I want to get through this allergic reactions again, with mood swings. Will taking glycine alone with my whey powder isolate be a good idea ? or is till still going to deplet tryptophan or / and cause histamine release ?
Thank you for replies. Gelatin is the first thing, that actually helped me improving my sleep score etc. I’ve been waking up in the night few times a day, without any symptoms for nearly 3 years. No depression, no meds, no anything. Sleep and sleep hygiene is my priority, so I doubt it’s about that.