Trudy Scott, Food Mood Expert and Nutritionist, author of The Antianxiety Food Solution. presents during the Anxiety Summit Season 4.
GABA: Blood brain barrier controversy, concerns, best forms and how to do a trial for eliminating anxiety
- Dispelling the blood brain barrier and the leaky brain myths
- The newest research on GABA effectiveness
- The best forms of GABA and why I have concerns about phenibut
- Results from clients and feedback from practitioners using GABA
- How to do a trial for the best results in eliminating anxiety
Here are some snippets from my presentation:
Worry and anxiety can be a result of low GABA and also low serotonin, so you may check off anxiety in both sections. Low GABA tends to result in a more physical anxiety, while low serotonin tends to result in more anxiety in the head and ruminating thoughts etc
With low GABA you have physical anxiety
- Anxiety and feeling overwhelmed or stressed
- Feeling worried or fearful
- Panic attacks
- Unable to relax or loosen up
- Stiff or tense muscles
- Feeling stressed and burned-out
- Craving carbs, alcohol, or drugs for relaxation and calming
The targeted use of individual amino acid supplements like GABA will balance brain chemistry to alleviate anxiety, fear, worry, panic attacks, and feeling stressed or overwhelmed. They can also be helpful in addressing other problems that contribute to or exacerbate anxiety, such as sugar cravings and addictions. In addition, they can help with depression and insomnia, which often co-occur with anxiety.
Here is the amino acid questionnaire with all 5 sections including GABA
Here is the blog that discusses urinary neurotransmitter testing and why I don’t use it
Here are the list of amino acid precautions
the main precaution with GABA is low blood pressure but I have yet to see it as an issue, liver/kidney issues – watch, GABA has not been studied in pregnancy or breastfeeding
Many individuals tapering from benzodiazepines find using GABA and other nutrients help the taper while others can’t tolerate GABA and other supplements. If you’re new to the ill-effects of benzos do watch this webinar I did for Hawthorn University last year: Say NO to Benzos
The blood brain barrier controversy and the fact that so many people say GABA only works if you have a leaky brain
Does a GABA supplement have to cross the blood brain barrier to be effective? A nutrition seminar I have been to, said it does not and GABA supplements are ineffective
The 1960 paper published by Eugene Roberts, the scientist who discovered GABA mentions the failure of GABA to penetrate the blood-brain barrier readily: Metabolic and Neurophysiological Roles of GABA
The 2015 zonulin intestinal permeability/leaky gut and possible blood brain barrier disruption paper: Gluten Psychosis: Confirmation of a New Clinical Entity
Zonulin is a tight junction modulator that is released by the small intestine mucosa upon gluten stimulation. Interestingly the zonulin receptor, identified as the precursor for haptoglobin-2, has been found in the human brain. Overexpression of zonulin (aka haptoglobin-2) could be involved in the blood brain barrier disruption similarly to the role that zonulin plays in increasing intestinal permeability.
NY Times article: Could Alzheimer’s Stem From Infections?
A virus, fungus or bacterium gets into the brain, passing through a membrane — the blood-brain barrier — that becomes leaky as people age
GABA – other possible mechanisms of action:
The microbiome and the bidirectional gut brain communication: Ingestion of Lactobacillus strain regulates emotional behavior and central GABA receptor expression in a mouse via the vagus nerve
Is the blood brain barrier more dynamic than assumed? A 2015 study discusses this Oral GABA supplementation allows better prioritizing of planned actions: new research
In the literature, there are controversial findings about GABA entering the brain through the blood brain barrier (BBB). The BBB is a tightly sealed layer of cerebral endothelial cells that form continuous tight junctions and prevent most solutes from entering the brain on the basis of size, charge, and lipid solubility. However … recent studies have demonstrated that the BBB is much more dynamic than assumed in the past, and some passage of solutes can occur by transcytosis, carrier-mediated transport, or simple diffusion of hydrophobic substances.
GABA’s relaxing effect may be due to peripheral effects rather than the effect on/in the brain. Here is an excerpt from this paper: GABA-receptors in peripheral tissues
GABA and its receptors are found in a wide range of peripheral tissues, including parts of the peripheral nervous system, endocrine, and non-neural tissues such as smooth muscle and the female reproductive system
The possible peripheral effects are also mentioned in this paper – Psychological stress-reducing effect of chocolate enriched with gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) in humans: assessment of stress using heart rate variability and salivary chromogranin A
it has been considered that GABA may act on the peripheral nervous system of the digestive organs and not the central nervous system
The newest research on the mechanism of GABA was published just last year in October 2015 – Neurotransmitters as food supplements: the effects of GABA on brain and behavior
There is some evidence in favor of a calming effect of GABA food supplements, but most of this evidence was reported by researchers with a potential conflict of interest. We suggest that any veridical effects of GABA food supplements on brain and cognition might be exerted through BBB passage or, more indirectly, via an effect on the enteric nervous system. We conclude that the mechanism of action of GABA food supplements is far from clear, and that further work is needed to establish the behavioral effects of GABA.
Here is other GABA research I mentioned:
- A paper published in Life Sciences reports that a combination of GABA (?-aminobutyric acid) and 5-HTP (5-hydroxytryptophan) improved sleep and sleep duration more than the use of either of the two amino acids alone.
- Research published in November 2015 – Study of GABA in Healthy Volunteers: Pharmacokinetics and Pharmacodynamics shows potential benefits for diabetes
- The 2006 research on oral GABA being a natural relaxant for 13 subjects who crossed a suspended bridge as a stressful stimulus
- The Improvement of Sleep by Oral Intake of GABA and Apocynum venetum Leaf Extract
I voiced concerns about how with phenibut physical dependence can develop and withdrawal symptoms can be similar to benzodiazepines
Here is the blog post: how to do an amino acid trial for anxiety
I get valuable feedback about GABA’s effectiveness from other practitioners. Here are a few (and more here):
Dr. Josh Friedman, integrative psychotherapist uses amino acids and other nutritional approaches in his practice:
[GABA] is definitely something I use. I am not a biochemist, so I actually don’t really know whether it crosses the blood/brain barrier, nor do I care actually. The first question should be, is it harmful? Are any of these things going to cause harm? And the answer with all the amino acids are no, they’re not going to cause harm, especially when compared to psychiatric medicines. The second question is, does it work? Is it helpful for our patients that we see in our practice?
Jonathan Prousky, ND, MSc, editor of the Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine and author of Anxiety: Orthomolecular Diagnosis and Treatment shares this in our season 2 interview: Tapering off psychiatric drugs so they do not ruin your life
I have found GABA to be invariably helpful and I don’t really know exactly how GABA works but I know it to be very, very safe and, to me, that is fundamentally important. It’s not associated with any withdrawal, with any tolerance, with any habituation, so people can try it without a lot of concern.
And it seems fitting to end with a quote from my mentor Julia Ross
On a scale of zero to ten, zero is not an unrealistic goal when it comes to anxiety. It’s really the human potential and GABA gives us access to it.
And some feedback from real people who’ve used GABA (more here)
Dee likes the instant calm from a product that contains 500mg GABA and 200mg Theanine:
I have taken Xanax in the past for panic attacks. My functional medicine doctor suggested this product as I wanted a natural product. I was amazed how it works just like the Xanax did – instant calm feeling within 10 mins of taking 2 capsules. I use them as needed when I am having heightened stress and anxiety.
Melissa likes a product that contains GABA, taurine, glycine, inositol, niacin and vitamin B6
After my first panic attack I thankfully found Julia Ross’s work. I began taking 250 mg GABA every night. That really helped! Now a few years later I don’t need it every day, and I take a half pill during my cycle anxiety – more like uneasiness and over worried now, just as needed. I then heard you speak Trudy and share more info, bought your book, and put into place supportive lifestyle changes, and I have my life back. GABA is a great supplement for some of us!
Gina chewed two 100mg pharma GABA tablets and said this:
It changed my life in minutes! Take it every day now. No more hopelessness!
Do the amino acid questionnaire, review the precautions and do a GABA trial and let us know how it worked for you? If you’re a practitioner I’d love feedback too.
I’d also love to hear if you notice any difference opening a capsule or using something like GABA Calm instead of swallowing a capsule.
Here’s to hope and calm!
If you are not already registered for the Anxiety Summit you can get live access to the speakers of the day here: www.theAnxietySummit.com
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Hi Trudy! Thanks so much for this wonderful summit and all this fantastic information. I have a question about GABA. I suspect both my husband and myself to be low on GABA based on the questionnaire. I picked up some Pharma GABA, 100mg, and my husband tried one and experienced an almost immediate positive reaction. I held off myself because we’re currently trying to conceive and I wasn’t sure it was safe for me. After my husband tried it, I read that it can have a negative effect on sperm so we agreed he should stop taking it for now. Have you heard anything about this aspect? He’s very disappointed to have to stop and I feel badly too because he struggles with terrible anxiety and depression. I’m wondering if there are other avenues we can pursue with him if GABA is not an option while we’re TTC. Thanks, Trudy. We recently picked up your book and are sending another copy to my husband’s family as he has multiple family members suffering from much more severe anxiety, depression, and bipolar. Thank you.
Marika
Glad you’re enjoying it! and so pleased to hear your husbands wonderful results. If you can share the source of GABA’s effects on sperm I’d be more than happy to comment – this is new to me.
I would love to offer some advice and understand that it may not be what you want to hear. My best advice to both of you is to address your anxiety (and depression in the case of your husband) BEFORE conceiving. You will enjoy the pregnancy and birth of your baby more, you will be more calm and capable as parents and will offer a better future for your baby. We now know that the health of mom and dad has a big impact on baby’s mood and overall health.
Thanks for sharing my book with family!
Thank you Trudy. I know this is the sensible approach. The good news for me is that I’ve since been diagnosed hypothyroid and since being on meds, a fog has lifted and my mindset has improved to a point I haven’t enjoyed in twenty years. Here is a link to that first article I read (see paragraph titled ‘Male Contraceptive’): “GABA: Gamma-Amino Butyric Acid” http://www.denvernaturopathic.com/news/GABA.html
Now that I’ve reread it I’m wondering if I misunderstood since it’s sounds conflicted. I’ve also just found two additional sources from US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health, studies that refer to hyperactivity in sperm, but I can’t make out if this was ultimately deemed a negative result: “Effects of gamma-aminobutyric acid on human sperm motility and hyperactivation” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9239690 AND “Occurrence of GABA and GABA receptors in human spermatozoa” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9733434
Thank so much, Trudy.
Marika
I honestly don’t know about these papers and if oral GABA would have an impact. I don’t think we know enough yet.
My gut feeling is that if GABA helps this much with his anxiety it will help with all aspects of his life but an integrative fertility doctor or fertility nutritionist would be a good person to check with.
I would also check zinc levels in both of you – important for fertility and anxiety and depression
Thank you, Trudy. We did have our zinc and copper tested. My levels were exactly balanced but my husband is copper dominant. I’ve just started to give him extra zinc (on top of what we’re already taking) as well as B6 after listening to one of the summit talks. B12 and D levels are good (we’ve been supplementing). I appreciate your input, thank you again.
Is there a test for leaky brain aside from concluding you have it when you have leaky gut? What foods/substances can cause BBB? I know that EMF can cross BBB. I have solutions for EMF-protection in my GIA website given above, if you are interested.If one has leaky brain, that means toxins have entered blood then there is a need to detox blood daily? What is the protocol for blood detox aside from foods that are good for blood like beets. Are all red foods positive for blood- nourishment or cleansing?
Trina
Cyrex offers lab testing for this and any problematic food can be a factor with leaky gut. It’s assumed this leads to leaky brain.
Hi Trudy. I live in the UK. Can you tell me which GABA is a good one to take. Is Solgar any good or do you know of a better one? Thanks so much for all your great in put and speakers. Lisa
Lisa
I believe Solgar is good but I think they only have a 500mg so it would need to be opened up and split into quarters. Here are the supps I use https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-pyroluria-supplements/ you could try and find something similar locally or purchase here to ship to you
Trudy, You said you used to take lots of soy & destroy gut. Does that refer only to soy that is NOT fermented like tofu & soy milk even if one was taking enzyme supplements with meals? If correct, did you first work on healing guts? How long does gut get repaired if damaged by soy? I suppose this would be the same result of gluten taken from childhood for around 55 yrs.? Does fermented foods accelerate gut healing? How does one test for presence of ratio of good vs bad bacteria in guts?
Trina
I’m not a fan of processed soy like soy milk, soy cheese, soy yogurt even with enzymes. And yes gut healing was a big part of my healing. The guts heals pretty quickly provided you remove the problematic foods like soy, gluten etc.
For healing I like glutamine, vitamin D, aloe, DGL etc.
Fermented foods help balance out the bacteria in the gut
A stool test offered by a functional lab like Genova or Diagnostechs will show good and bad bacteria and other markers of digestive function
Hi Trudy. Thank you for the summit. The first time I read your book (I got a copy from the library) my takeaway was to use Gaba Calm to get completely off the benzos (I had tapered to a very low dose already). Recently after reading more information on your blog, I decided to try the dietary changes and to add in Tryptophan, since I haven’t been sleeping well for the last 6 mos. I’m sleeping better so far. I think I still have a ways to go to feel 100%, but I am improving. My question specifically about Gaba is do you think I/everyone should do a trial with plain GABA verus a combination product (like Gaba Calm)? Thank you.
Cindy
Everyone responds differently but I always start with GABA Calm because it’s so effective. I would not use it if there were issues with the tyrosine or other ingredients (some people are not a fan of the sugar alcohols)
Also if someone has used GABA Calm in the past with success then I’d use that.
I hope my talk didn’t make you think otherwise?
Glad to hear you’re doing better and good for you for making the dietary changes – we need this to be in place too, plus lifestyle changes (yoga, sleep, meditation, no stress)
Hello Trudy,
Thank you for your practical tips about how to use the amino acids and for sharing the latest research on the mechanisms of action whereby GABA may exert its anxiolytic effects. Like you, I love exploring the research!
You mentioned that if you have any negative effects during an amino acid trial, such as a headache, stop. This is difficult for me, as I suffer from other autoimmune diseases and gut issues so experience a myriad of symptoms on a daily basis and get a few migraines a week as well. How do you distinguish a negative reaction to a supplement (or from a reintroduced food, for that matter) from symptoms of long-standing chronic illness? This point is salient to me also because I’ve been reintroducing paleo foods (tomatoes, eggs, seed-based spices, nuts) after two years on the autoimmune paleo protocol. Although I’ve experienced improvement on AIP, I still experience an array of symptoms, so it’s VERY difficult to differentiate a reaction to a food from a “normal” symptom caused by some other extraneous variable (lack of sleep, stress, etc.).
Thank you! I am loving this summit and your interview style is impeccable!
Ali
Glad you like the research and the summit – and thanks for those kind words about my interview style 🙂
You ask a great question! It’s really trial and error and trying to do the GABA trial when you aren’t changing something else. If that’s not feasible or impossible to do then in this instance I’d look for the benefits and if we aren’t sure if it’s a new negative effect, stop and see if we lose the benefits and the negative effects and do this a few times.
With anyone with migraines I would not use any product that contains tyrosine
Hi there.. Thanks for posting. I have many of the same symptoms as you and always concerned about migraine, hyper, anxiety, brain fog etc triggers. I’m wondering how you are going on GABA? I have just had mine delivered and took my first 100mcg trial this morn. I was mildly hyper this morn from who-knows-what I ate yesterday, so I’m not sure if the GABA triggered hyper brain/body/speech symptoms or if that would have happened anyway! 🙁 Always so confusing. Anyway – how are you going with GABA? Thanks, Sonia
Thanks, Trudy, for your timely replies. I went to Geneva Diagnostics website & sent a question on stool test to determine ratio of good & bad bacteria. Screen requires only licensed medical practitioners to order kit. Based on what you know, do they accept a CN order, not MD? If my CN in MT does not give RX, do you charge for RX? How much? My Blue Cross Blue Shield does not cover nutritionists but covers pre-approved lab tests. I will find out if this test is covered by medical insurance.
I would check with your CN and the lab
Trudy, I have used tabs for awhile now, but I want to ask you about something that happens to me when I take it. I do open the capsule in my mouth for faster relief, and have used more and less at times, and I absolutely DO experience the calming benefit, but I also get this tingly/prickly feeling on my body when it hits my system and something internal that almost takes my breath away. I don’t quite know how to describe it but it feels a little bit panicky like “somethings wrong” (although panick attacks is not something i go through)… It always passes after a minute or two and then everything’s fine. Ever heard of this happening to anyone else? Any idea what’s actually happening?? (Now brand)
That should say GABA, not “tabs”
HH
I don’t like any adverse with any supplement no matter how quickly it passes. I’ve had some clients describe this type of reaction and it can be a clue that it’s too much GABA.
Hi Trudy- amazing info thank you…. Do you know about availability in Australia? And I may have missed it but any particular drug interactions.
Thanks again, incredible summit
Regards
Robyn
Robyn
Yes GABA is available in Australia typically in bulk or higher doses on bodybuilding sites. And can also be ordered from the USA. The company I use does ship internationally https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-pyroluria-supplements/
There are no drug interactions with GABA
Glad you enjoyed it!
Hi Trudy, this has been a wealth of information for me especially about GABA. I have all the above physical anxiety including tingling, numbness & more. I also have mthfr so methylation issues & finding out if I’m an over or under methylator. I’m sure I’m over but getting tested. This summit has given me hope on fixing my anxiety which I have had for 3 years. I’m thankful I have only been on one med & stopped it after I got symptoms after a year of taking it. I always believed there must be something else that can help other than prescription drugs. You & all the presenters on this are amazing!! Thank so much from the bottom of my heart.
Vicki
Glad you’re getting answers and have hope! that’s the plan
I assume you’re getting the tingling and numbness checked by a doctor
Hi Trudy,
I have been to 3 neurologists & they cannot find anything. I’m glad that this is the case. When I’m more stressed I get more tingling. This mainly happens when I walk so maybe due to tense muscles or low mg due to stress because I did had low RBC mg at the time.
I wanted to ask further questions on GABA:
GABA calm who can take this as it has tyrosine can someone with low serotonin or high serotonin take this? Or is it best to take straight GABA for those who are not meant to take tyrosine.
Can a person who has low GABA have other Neurotransmission issues ie high dopamine or low serotonin?
Thanks
Vicki
Vicki
The GABA Calm has a very small amount of tyrosine so unless it’s contraindicated it’s the one I use with most of my clients and yes many people with low GABA have signs of other low n/transmitters
I suggest getting assessed for low B12 (the tingling and numbness)
Thanks for all this information, Trudy!
I have a couple of questions: how long do you usually suggest people stay on amino acids after doing a trial? Also, you mentioned transitioning from a vegetarian diet to help ease your anxiety. Have you had any clients who do well on a vegetarian diet? (I have been vegetarian for so long and really enjoy my meals! I avoid processed foods, soy, and gluten, and although I know it’s not for everyone it’s difficult for me to imagine eating animal products. Any thoughts?).
Aislinn
It’s typically 1 to 12 months assuming you address all the other underlying issues and that does include diet. Most of my clients with anxiety and depression do better with animal protein. Probably not what you wanted to hear. I interview Lierre Keith on this in season 3 https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxiety-anxiety-depression-vegetarian-diet/
You mentioned avoiding GABA Calm if you have high blood pressure. Can you explain why? I tried it twice as I am trying to get off Ativan, I take .25 to sleep at night for many years now. I was told that that low dose would not be a problem however I have anxiety during day which causing some my blood pressure to go up. I drink coffee in the morning as I’m so tired.
First try with GABA Calm worked great, no Ativan that nigh. Tried it a few days later and it worked but felt really hung over next day needing more coffee.
Debbie
The tyrosine in the GABA Calm is an issue if you have high blood pressure. The coffee itself may be a factor in anxiety so don’t rule that out
Please work with a doctor on a very slow benzo taper and educate yourself about this. benzobuddies.org is a great support group
Hi Trudy,
Love this informative summit!, THANK YOU!!
I live in Canada. How can I purchase GABA Calm by Source Naturals. I have only been able to source Pharma GABA.
Thank you so much Trudy!
Deb
Deb
I would give just give pharmaGABA a trial
I listened to Dr. Wm. J. Walsh. Near the end of his talk he mentioned an autism involved Dr. The name started with the letter B but I didn’t get it. Please give me the name and a website if you happen to have it. Thank you.
Dr Ben Lynch. Dr Walsh said he thought his son had autism but in actual fact he has 2 sons, neither of whom have autism. But he is a brilliant doctor
Here is his site http://mthfr.net/
and our interview last season https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxiety-summit-methylfolate-anxiety/
Is Tyrosine the same as Taurine which are both in GABA Calm.
Are both bad for high blood pressure?
Debbie
No tyrosine is the only one to watch with high blood pressure
i have really enjoyed this summit! This is my first one. I see a lot of patients for anxiety and depression too. I usually use ashwagandha and/or rhodiola.
My question to you is this: how do you do the tryptophan trial? you went over the GABA one very well but I am confused about how to use tryptophan. Can you please clarify this for me?
Thank you for all your hard work in getting this summit off the ground and into the world for others to benefit
Maureen
It’s the same for all the amino acids. Do the questionnaire, rate symptoms, start with lowest starting dose of applicable amino acid (or less for pixie dust people) and do a trial noting how much they improved and increase until no further improvement
Glad you enjoyed the summit
Trudy do you have any more info on the weighted blanket use in autism? And in response to a previous question on nutrientsuse in ptsd you said you use pubmed I do but theres a 9 month delay from publish to upload.
Pip
A blog on the weighted blanket https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxiety-adhd-autism-insomnia-weighted-blankets/
Wonderful information Trudy !! thank you
I was given from holistic Dr. Kaviance PM and Calm Gaba from Neuro Science
and it worked for 3 months; but then stopped working.
Wondering how that is?
Thanks much ~
Romy
As with benzodiazepines I understand you need more and more of the phenibut for it to work – and that’s when they both often start causing problems
Hi Trudy…Fantastic Summit!! So much information. One question…I understand that using the GABA Calm is contra indicated if high blood pressure is a factor, but is this still so if the high blood pressure is a result of anxiety? Person has high pressure when anxiety and issues of stress are present. Can’t wait for season 5!!!
Tanya
If someone has high blood pressure for any reason I would watch the use of tyrosine. I have used it and have clients monitor their blood pressure with an at-home device and if there is no effect they continue with it.
So glad you enjoyed it!
Please what is the co you mentioned for the Gaba ?.. understood Forest naturals.. but can not find..it
thank you
Romy
It’s Source Naturals GABA Calm – you can read more about it and the other amino acids I use here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-pyroluria-supplements/
And this blog post on GABA Calm https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/source-natural-gaba-calm-anxiety/
Hi Trudy
Thanks the summit has been really informative.
I practise Nutritional Therapy in the UK and therefore unfortunately unable to recommend GABA in clinic. What would be your starting point for anxiety with both adults and children in this case?
Many thanks
Marcelle
Glad you enjoyed it! I start with the basics: real whole food, eating to control blood sugar (so animal protein at breakfast), no gluten, no caffeine, no sugar. And addressing gut health – microbiome, parasites, candida. Many people need support due to various nutritional deficiencies like low iron, low Bs, low zinc, low B6, low vitamin D etc. Here is the list of 60+ nutritional causes, all of which would need to be addressed and/or ruled out https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/60-nutritional-biochemical-causes-of-anxiety/
I’m curious as to why you can’t recommend GABA?
Re: Low thyroid function
Somewhere during this summit’s comments, I think I saw that low thyroid can keep aminos from working. This is my fourth summit, and I don’t remember ever hearing that before. I would have noticed because I’ve had low thyroid for at least 10 years, adrenal fatigue for 17 and practitioners are afraid to treat the thyroid because they think it could push my adrenals too much. I am also extremely sensitive.
I’ve struggled to make many different aminos work for me over many years for chronic anxiety, depression, insomnia, etc. But if good thyroid function is needed, I can stop “trying to get blood out of a turnip” as we say in the south. It’s not going to happen.
Do I have this right?
Lynne
I covered low thyroid and the aminos in season 3 in the troubleshooting interview https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxiety-summit-pyroluria-amino-acids-acids-troubleshooting/
For many reasons it’s best to address low thyroid function – it’s so key for so much in the body.
Regarding chronic sleep issues: I’m awake 2-4 hrs. in the wee hrs. for many, many years. Have tried Kavinace, Seriphos, and many aminos, including tryptophan and 5 HTP. After using the regular Kavinace occasionally with mixed results, I decided to take taurine and Gaba. Should this combination help with sleep? I haven’t noticed any mention of taurine in the summits. Nothing helps me sleep consistently except very low-dose benzos., and I’m very judicious about how I use them. Exhaustion leading to desperation are usually the drivers. I am also taking 16.25 WP compounded thyroid medication; I’m a “pixel”, but it hasn’t helped with sleep.
Any other ideas for sleep?
Thanks, Trudy.
Sometimes supplements can cause sleep issues. Sublingual B-12, other B vitamins, or even a B-Complex taken late in the day or near bedtime can cause sleep problems for some people. DHEA taken late in the day might cause sleep issues. Magnesium, on the other hand might be helpful if taken late in the day or near to bedtime. Progesterone applied as a cream might aid sleep. I think there may be other supplements that should not be taken in the evening.
I have a friend who is very knowledgeable on this topic.
Lynne
No caffeine, no gluten, address food sensitivities, hot flashes? liver support, parasites, high cortisol
I’m afraid benzos, even low dose may be a contributing factor
Thank you Trudy so much for this wonderful summit! I have been listening from Australia and learned a lot. I left a question for Dr Walsh, but the answer I got was too broad. Perhaps you could help me? Given that you can get a response from your GABA test within 5 minutes, and he mentioned correcting zinc/copper within 6-8 weeks, what TIME FRAMES can you expect the various biochemical deficiencies to be corrected – vitamins vs minerals vs amino acids for the conditions that have come up? Can you give some guides? I realize the actual clinical response varies widely. Thanks a million.
Jenny
It really depends on each person. I find all the aminos work in 5 minutes if needed and I find that the pyroluria protocol typically starts to work in a week to 10 days.
Hi Trudy, have you ever looked into the effects of GABA on thyroid conditions? I’ve noticed some literature indicating it might not be suitable.
Also do you think l-theanine might be more suitable in that case?
Thank you for your amazing page and work!
B xx
Benita
I am not aware of the effects of GABA on thyroid conditions but am interested in learning more about what you refer to. Can you please share some links and then I can comment on both GABA and theanine?
Hi Trudy,
This is the study I was looking at.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16527506
It appears GABA reduces TSH.
So not good for hypothyroid?
What do you think and what’s your clinical experience?
Much appreciated
B
Hi Trudy, just giving you a nudge, did you get a chance to look at the above paper.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16527506
Thanks B xx
Hi Benita
Thanks for the nudge – I had missed your follow-up post with the link. What I have gleaned from the link is that “these studies provide strong support for the hypothesis that there is reciprocal regulation of the thyroid and GABA systems in vertebrates.” I am aware that we need good thyroid function for GABA and the other amino acids to be effective, but the effects of GABA on the thyroid is new to me and I’m going to have to get hold of the full paper and possibly connect with authors so I can learn more. I’ve added it to my list of topics to look into
hello mrs trudy
I have a question , is that possible to boost serotonin,GABA and dopamine levels without taking any medications at any circumstances ?
if yes ,how can I do that ?
Marie
There are many ways to do this and many of my clients have been able to quit their medications (with their doctor’s approval). The first is to start with real whole food, grass-fed red meat, protein at breakfast, quite gluten, sugar and caffeine. And then consider trials of amino acids like GABA, tryptophan and tyrosine if you have low GABA, low serotonin or low dopamine. Other factors include gut health, parasites, candida, sleep, exercise, yoga and so on. Here is the 60+ possible causes of anxiety and depression https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/60-nutritional-biochemical-causes-of-anxiety/
For practical steps on how to do this I recommend my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” (https://www.everywomanover29.com/store/aafsbook.html) and/or reading this blog which is a wealth of information.
The Anxiety Summits are also extremely valuable – here is season 1 as an example http://www.season1.theanxietysummit.com/ (there are now 4 summits, all unique information)
Hi Trudy,
Do you know of any options to boost serotonin in someone with IBS/leaky gut? I seem to be sensitive to many things but could use something to lift my mood while I work on healing the underlying cause. I use the GABA Calm that you recommend for anxiety and it’s very effective, but I was wondering what I might try to raise serotonin that would not upset my tummy. Are there any sublingual options similar to GABA Calm that are designed to increase serotonin? Thanks.
Hi Julie
I have my clients do the amino acids questionnaire and if they score high on the serotonin section we have them do a tryptophan trial. Lidtke makes a 100mg chewable tryptophan https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-pyroluria-supplements/
Trudy,
Just read your article on tryptophan for PMS and wondered how much you would start with if using the Lidtke capsules – one a couple times a day? The study was based on 6 grams but that would be 12 capsules of the Lidtke trytophan. How long does the tryptophan usually last – a few hours?
Thanks,
Julie
Julie
I always have clients start with the lowest amount of tryptophan (500mg) or less if they are sensitive – and build up from there. Details of questionnaires, precautions and doing a trial can be found here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxiety-amino-acids-overview/
The aminos last about 3-4 hours on average
Hi Trudy,
Thanks for your feedback and thank you for hosting the summit – I really learned a lot. Two more questions:
1) Should zinc be taken on an empty stomach, or can I take it with my other supplements right before or after breakfast or lunch?
2) I just started LDN for IBS and hypothyroidism about a week ago and am still on a 1 mg dose. I plan to titrate up slowly to 3 mg. (I’m a pixie dust person.:) I take the LDN on an empty stomach right before bed. Is it okay to take L-tryptophan at the same time to help with sleep, or should I take it at a different time? I could take it 15-20 minutes before dinner along with Betaine HCL and Quercetin if that would be better.
Thanks so much,
Julie
Julie
Zinc is best on a full stomach – to prevent nausea. I have no experience with LDN and don’t know how it may interact with tryptophan (best taken on an empty stomach or with some carb)
Hi Trudy,
I was wondering what is a good supplement to take when you are trying to quit smoking or in the process of quitting smoking?
Irma
Any/all of the amino acids can help a great deal – it depends on the reason for smoking. I have my clients do the amino acid questionnaire, review the precautions and do a trial https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxiety-amino-acids-overview/
Adding in hypnosis is also very helpful for many
Okay, thanks Trudy. Have a wonderful time in Tahoe!
Julie
Trudy,
Do you have a link to the presentation on methylation by Ben Lynch? If so, could you share it with me?
Thanks,
Julie
Julie
Here is the link to the blog post on one of his presentations https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxiety-summit-methylfolate-anxiety/
Trudy, I have taken your recommendations I heard you speak about on your most recent Anxiety Summit about GABA – and have been experiencing some new found peace that I thought was forever lost to me. It has been truly wonderful! Thank you! I have a question – in your experience, have you found that different levels/amounts of GABA were needed at different times in a woman’s cycle? I would be interested to know if there is any research or observational data related to GABA receptors and how they are affected by the hormonal ups and downs – AND how to respond to that with supplementation and/or food and lifestyle adjustments. Thank you for your response!
Heather
I love this – new found peace! thanks for stopping by and sharing. GABA is closely related to progesterone which we know fluctuates during our cycles so for some people mirroring this can help even more.
Here is a paper discussing GABA A receptors and the cycle https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25157218 and another more general one https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20191865
I have not seen any research on GABA supplementation in the 2nd half of the cycle (luteal phase) but recently blogged about how tryptophan helps https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/tryptophan-for-pms-premenstrual-dysphoria-mood-swings-tension-irritability/
I’d love to hear what you have observed during your cycle?
Heather
I just came across this paper that discusses changes in GABA levels across the cycle http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3383792/
Please do come and give us an update with what you have observed – thanks!
I understand if you can’t comment.we are looking for natural approach for granddaughter. She is 7 years old and weighs 52 lbs. she has been on 5mg of adderall and it doesn’t work for her at all. We want to take a more natural approach. What would you suggest? She is off her adderall this summer. She is very hyper child and disruptive constantly. She is very well cared for and gets lots of attention. Any suggestion – we have tried GABA calm lozenges from source naturals orange flavor. It did some good maybe not enough. Thanks for your suggestions.
Hi Pat
As with all my clients I’d start with the basics and look at diet: real whole foods, no gluten, no sugar and breakfast with protein in the morning
I’d have her do the amino acid questionnaire and trials of the amino acids. I’ve had excellent results with tyrosine for focus issues.
With kids anxiety can often manifest as hyperactivity and being disruptive (Dr Zendi covered this during her interview on the Anxiety Summit https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxiety-children-adolescents-integrative-psychiatric-approach/https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxiety-children-adolescents-integrative-psychiatric-approach/) so I’d also consider low serotonin and a trial with a GABA-only product. Dr Zendi tends to use theanine with her clients.
With ADD/ADHD we must also look at candida, gut health, low zinc, low omega-3s, salicylate intolerances
Weighted blankets can be helpful too https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxiety-adhd-autism-insomnia-weighted-blankets/
My daughter says the GABA is not working. Do you have another suggestion for granddaughter. Thank you
please see above
Hi Trudy,
Thanks for all the wonderful information. After listening to some of the podcasts, I decided to try tryptophan and GABA to see how it would affect my generalized body pain. It did wonders! Unfortunately, I have SIBO and it also made me constipated which worsened my symptoms. I suspect it was the tryptophan, not the GABA. What is the connection between tryptophan, SIBO and constipation? Is this a common reaction?
THank you!
Sue
How wonderful to hear these results! I like to do one amino at a time so we know the beneficial effects and possible side-effects – so figuring out which one is causing constipation would be the first step.
Serotonin is involved in gut motility so it could potentially be the culprit but it typically improves motility and doesn’t cause constipation.
I’d look at the quality of each supplement (Lidtke tryptophan?), any fillers? and possibly too much? If someone was getting wonderful benefits I’d try and address the constipation with extra water and possibly extra magnesium (both of which help neurotransmitter production)
I’m also curious if you have high methane or high hydrogen?
My SIBO test showed high methane. And it was not the Lidtke brand tryptophan that I tried. Do you think that would make a difference? I’m a little leery of trying it again. What dose should would be good to start?
Sue
With high methane constipation tends to be more of an issue. I only ever recommend the Lidtke tryptophan and have my clients start with 500mg (or less if they are sensitive or have an issue like you describe)
Trudy,
I tried 500 mg of the Lidtke L-Tryptophan this morning. Do you know if it’s okay to take L-Theanine at the same time as L-Tryptophan – or do they compete for absorption since they are both amino acids? I have been taking 200 mg L-Theanine in the morning, but it was not enough to alleviate my anxiety and mood issues, so I’m wondering if I should try taking both (and if so take together or separately) or just increase my dose of L-Tryptophan.
Thanks,
Julie
Julie
I can’t give you specific recommendations but will share that I do use combinations of different amino acids and we very methodically do a trial of each increasing and observing benefits (or no benefits)
Hi Trudy, I’ve been taking GABA from compound parmacy. I’ve noticed I’m getting headaches is this normal? How do you alleviate this?
Only have take 2 a day so far.
Vicki
Hi again,
Forgot to add I’m finding I’m getting tingling on the skin & feel a bit tense in shoulders.
But also I feel calmer in parts of my body when taking it as I have nerve issues & physical tense issues. Is it increasing my anxiety???? I’m taking 200mg tablets so far 2 times a day.
My headache goes after not taking it. I have low dopamine as well so is it lowing this as well. I’m not depressed though. But my genes show lots of low dopamine issues.
Do I need L-tryptophan as well??? Just need advice.
Vicki
I’m afraid I can’t consult via the blog but can say that if a client is getting headaches or any adverse symptoms they either reduce the amount of the amino acid or stop it altogether.
Many people can do well with less of an amino acid when they open the capsule and use it sublingually – benefits with no adverse effects.
I’ve not heard of GABA from a compound pharmacy – I would make sure it’s only GABA and doesn’t have any fillers.
In order to figure out if someone needs tryptophan I have them do the questionnaire and a trial
Hi Trudy,
The compound was told to provide 4 amino phenyl-butyric acid. So not sure will another form of GABA work? Or are all the same. Would compound chemists use fillers?
Vicki
Vicki
I wish companies/pharmacies wouldn’t say that 4 amino phenyl-butyric acid (also known as phenibut or phenyl GABA) is GABA, which is gamma-aminobutyric acid and very different. I don’t recommend phenibut ever and prefer GABA calm (https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/source-natural-gaba-calm-anxiety/) or a GABA-only product. You can find some of the GABA products I use here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-pyroluria-supplements/
I also only recommend Lidtke tryptophan (also on the above supps link)
Hi Trudy,
Would the form of GABA I took cause the symptoms I’m having? Would gaba calm be different?
I’ve also been taking niacin & that is causing issues as well. couldn’t sleep, anxious, tremor in body but also calm as well at times which is strange. I’m fighting off methylation at present due to hydroxy b12 injection which made my body revved up. So taking it for this reason.
I know it’s not your area but need advice if this GABA will cause similar issues. Need to calm my body down.
Vicki
When you say “this GABA” I assume you mean phenibut. Phenibut itself can cause anxiety over the long-term – it’s been reported to be similar to benzodiazepines which is why I’m not a fan. Typically it helps with anxiety and sleep which is why so many people like it so much. Since too much GABA can cause anxiety I would assume that too much phenibut can cause anxiety too. It’s also challenging to figure out when there are other confounding factors like the B12 injection and niacin.
I suggest working with your practitioner as she has a clear picture of your entire health history
Trudy,
I’ve been taking Lidtke L-Tryptophan for 3-4 weeks now and can feel the difference, but I ordered some Endorphigen for pain and mood and tried it for the first time today. It was VERY stimulating. I took one pill mid morning and one mid afternoon. Have you heard of this reaction? Do you think Endorphigen is taxing on the adrenal glands? The Mood Cure book says that DPA works by preventing the breakdown of endorphins, so I thought it would be okay, even with adrenal fatigue, but now I’m not so sure. Noticed it has P5P in it and I normally take B-complex and P5P with lunch, but I took the Endorphigen on an empty stomach as instructed on the bottle. Could the P5P without food be the problem? Can I open the capsule and take less? I called Lidtke and the person there thought you would know more about this than he would…
Are you experienced with special diets for sensitivities such as histamine intolerance? Or do you know someone in the Sacramento area who is?
Thanks,
Julie
Julie
Glad to hear the tryptophan is helping – I’d love to hear how much you’re taking and how it’s helping?
It’s very unusual to get any bad reaction to 500mg Endorphigen – I have had one client not like it but anything is possible. It may mean you don’t need it or it may be too much. All the amino acids can be opened and small amounts used. I doubt it’s the P5P but it is possible.
I am not an expert in histamine intolerance and don’t know anyone in Sacramento who is. I do like Yasmina as a resource https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxiety-summit-histamine-anxiety-depression-schizophrenia/ and Dr Lynch has this great blog http://mthfr.net/histamine-intolerance-mthfr-and-methylation/2015/06/11/
Hi Trudy,
Thanks for the feedback. I started out taking 500 mg of L-tryptophan 2-3 times per day, but recently increased the dose to 1,000 mg before bed and 500 mg mid morning. It seems like the negative thoughts and racing mind have greatly subsided but it did take a while. I read that it can take up to a month to feel a difference. I must have been very depleted.
Nancy Yilk at Optimum Health in Sacramento has a protocol for histamine intolerance. I’ve noticed that just backing off the fermented foods (24-hour yogurt and kefir) over the last week has helped a lot, but it’s a catch 22 because these are the foods that are supposed to help heal the gut yet I cannot tolerate much of them. Sauerkraut is not even an option. I will check out the resources you included in your post. Thanks again!
Julie
Hi,
My son, 13, started having stress seizures and severe physical stress symptoms after he needed to take xifaxim for a few weeks due to appendix infection. It was inoperable because of concerns it wouldn’t heal with his Crohn’s disease nearby. He also started taking Isoniazid at that time for TB (latent). The seizures started a couple weeks after taking both. I read your blog and started giving him 500 mg GABA and it worked! I tried 5-htp also but it gave him too much of a euphoric high. The GABA alone works well and the couple times we discontinued, his stress symptoms came back. He is normally a positive, happy kid and enjoys school and with the GABA he feels normal. But without it, he starts to tremor and feel very anxious. My concern is that it has been 7 months now, and he has a couple more to go with the Isoniazid for TB treatment. When he’s done, do you think he can stop the GABA? I was going to wait a few more weeks to make sure his gut is healthy (doing lots of probiotics/Paleo diet). Should we taper? Get a lower dose? Am I wrong to think the GABA need is due to the antibiotics?
Thanks!
Michelle
I’m afraid I’m not familiar with Isoniazid for TB treatment so can’t be sure but can share that most meds lead to nutrient depletions which can then affect neurotransmitter production. This TB antibiotic depletes B3, B6 and vitamin D (http://www.livingnaturally.com/pdfdocs/3/33a3cc31fa704d828164573cc4d291b3.pdf) and likely magnesium too – all of which are needed to make GABA. My approach: if you have low GABA symptoms and using GABA alleviates the symptoms then continue to take them.
It’s wonderful to hear he is seeing such great results! You’re doing great! I’d love to get your permission to share these results? and more details on amount and timing? just 500mg once a day? which GABA? swallowed or sublingual (sublingual is typically more effective)?
Keep in mind that these same nutrients are needed for serotonin production and some people do better on tryptophan instead of 5-HTP so if he has low serotonin anxiety too (worry in the head, overwhelm, ruminations) it may be worth a trial.
Thank you for your help. We tried the sublingual GABA you suggest first, but he didn’t like the taste, so we switched to NOW GABA 500 mg. He also takes B6 because Isoniazid does deplete that, plus multi-vitamins, probiotics twice per day, l-glutamine, and CBD oil (Charlotte’s Web). All these together have been very helpful while he can’t take other immunosuppressants for his Crohn’s. I do also give him tryptophan if he can’t sleep – he’s better when he’s active. He has a lot of muscle pain and tightness which seems unexplained, so adding magnesium might be a good idea. Do you have a favorite type? I’m a bit confused by all the options out there. The Jigsaw mag. is pretty mild I’ve found and that’s what I use but maybe not the best for him.
Hi Trudy,
When I take 500 mg of Lidtke Tryptophan it makes me sleepy. So it’s great at night for helping me get to sleep (or get back to sleep if I wake up), but not ideal for during the day. Any recommendations? Should I try a lower dose or try 5-HTP instead? I’ve only used the regular Tryptophan, not Tryptophan Complete. I have IBS and just learned I’m homozygous for MTHFR a1298c, in case that makes any difference. Maybe it affects how I process Tryptophan…
I notice that I tend to feel much worse the first half of the day (both physically and mentally), although the recommendations for Tryptophan are usually to take in the afternoon and before bed, not in the morning. Maybe I should take GABA in the morning and a low dose of Tryptophan or 5-HTP in the afternoon? I have symptoms of both low serotonin and low GABA. Any thoughts you have will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Julie
I have been taking Kavinace Ultra PM for about 4 years. I know you don’t recommend phenibut. Do you have any recommendations on how one could go about gradually getting off this sleep aid without losing too much sleep?
Have muscle tension so severe that its 6-1/2 years since i could walk more than a few feet. All started after a 4 week taper off 8 mg of lorazapam. About two years ago my long term memory was gone. All i read says taking gaba will not help as ours is there but down regulated,what ever that means,so what can one do to be able to function again! I feel i am losing my mind too and each year symptoms got worse.4 neurologists have no clue,have given me all the muscle relaxers and even a benzo and nothing has helped.I am at the end of my rope.
Arnold
I’ve had many benzo clients use GABA with great success so always do a trial based on the questionnaire. I’d also look into low magnesium, low serotonin, side-effects of other meds (like statins), and gluten sensitivity (for starters).
Hi Trudy! I have followed you for a few years now- I had been put on phenabut by my alternative practicioner not realizing it Wd be habit forming- once i knew this after correspondence w you I began to slowly taper- was not easy- I tried to supp w gaba while on phenabut but this didn’t seem to work well for me and I had heightened anxiety and palpitations-
I recently went away for the weekend and for the first time in 3 years I forgot the phenabut — very scary for me- but made it thru the night without any sleep and a lot of palpations- luckily my dose was low enough where I was ok- I went next am to get GABA Calm from health food store and it worked! I started with 250 every few hours along w ashwaghanda and phosphatidal serine- and I made it thru the weekend with calm!
Without yr advice on the gaba I Wd have been lost so thank you so very much- I have been able to stay on the gaba and am not taking phenabut at all any longer – a huge relief and weight off- I’m taking approx 1200 Gaba a day right now- wondered if that was too much but it feels good. Thank you for all of your expertise on this subject! Would like to know if 1200 Wd be too much?
Elizabeth
I’m sorry to hear about your phenibut issues but so pleased to hear GABA Calm, ashwaghanda and phosphatidylserine helped so much initially and now GABA is offering ongoing support. 1200 mg GABA is considered a high daily dose but this much is often needed short term and is not an issue provided there are no adverse effects (like light-headedness, flushing, excessive fatigue etc).
I would love to share your story as a new blog post (first name only) so we can help others avoid similar situations. If I do so some additional info would be helpful. May I ask how long you had been using phenibut and how much you were using? Which product was recommended and for what purposes? May I ask which type of practitioner and if you were cautioned about phenibut issues being similar to benzodiazepines? And how long ago this was? It really concerns me that phenibut is still being used!
May I ask what the GABA dosing looks like i.e how many times a day? And if you’re still using ashwaghanda and phosphatidylserine too?