At the risk of making some introverts mad I’d like to propose a connection between pyroluria and introversion. Many of your introversion traits – anxiety-and-social-anxiety, feelings-of-inner-tension, not-enjoying-crowds – may in fact have a biochemical component.
There is a genetic condition that causes anxiety-and-social-anxiety, feelings-of-inner-tension, not-enjoying-crowds and it’s called pyroluria. If you have pyroluria and take zinc, vitamin B6, evening primrose oil and a few other nutrients you will feel calm, gain confidence and enjoy being around groups of people for the first time in your life. Perhaps the same can be said if you are an introvert and you feel uncomfortable in crowds and feel anxious!?
I’m writing this blog post because of a recent Huffington Post article, written by Carolyn Gregoire and called “23 Signs You’re Secretly An Introvert”
I am fascinated and intrigued with this article and the 23 questions because I used to resonate with being an introvert. However, since I discovered that I actually have an inherited and little-understood condition called pyroluria, I no longer resonate with being an introvert! I use zinc, vitamin B6 and evening primrose oil on a daily basis and it keeps my social anxiety/inner tension/inner monologue symptoms in check. And, it seems, my former introvert traits too!
I mention the “making some introverts mad” part because many introverts say “just leave us alone, we’re quite happy the way we are and don’t need to fixed or changed”.
But, based on the numerous comments on this very popular article– over 2500 in total as of 9/16/2013 – there are some aspects of being an introvert that many introverts would like to change.
Here are a few examples:
mr070995 is proud to be an introvert but wishes he was a little more outgoing:
“After reading this, and laughing at the fact that most of what is on this list is literally my life, I can definitely say I am an introvert. Am I sad by this, not at all! I am proud of what I am and what I’m becoming. Do I wish I was a little bit more outgoing in some aspects, of course”
junkmama2 is happy but not comfortable in a crowd:
“This is my life. It isn’t always a comfortable place to be when I must be in a crowd. But I am happy to be in my peaceful life, where calmness and quiet prevail”
HuffPoRepublican feels drained and anxious around people:
“I’m not sure what I am. I mean, I actually like to be around people at first, and I’m always up to hang out – but after the first five minutes, I feel drained and anxious to get home and return to my books. :)”
Darkace puts on a show in order to succeed in the work place:
“The hardest aspect of living life as in introvert is we all live in an extroverted world. School pushes kids to do group projects, that are just awkward and when you don’t do well in it you’re doing something wrong or something is wrong with you. The moment I step out of the door I am no longer me, I am a character that has to put on a show in order to succeed in the work place.”
BCereus fakes it when around friends and finds it painful:
“Sometimes I can communicate with friends well and sometimes I fake it really badly. I always wonder if people can see past my half smile and fake laugh. It’s painful to be honest. But there are times when I don’t mind so much.”
Here are the 23 questions in Carolyn’s article. I encourage to check them out on the blog as she goes into each one in more detail and has some great links for further reading on the topic.
1. You find small talk incredibly cumbersome.
2. You go to parties -– but not to meet people. You would rather spend time with people you already know and feel comfortable around.
3. You often feel alone in a crowd.
4. Networking/small-talk makes you feel like a phony.
5. You’ve been called “too intense.”
6. You’re easily distracted and overwhelmed in environments with an excess of stimulation.
7. Downtime doesn’t feel unproductive to you.
8. Giving a talk in front of 500 people is less stressful than having to mingle with those people afterwards.
9. When you get on the subway, you sit at the end of the bench -– not in the middle.
10. You start to shut down after you’ve been active for too long.It’s likely because you’re trying to conserve energy.
11. You’re in a relationship with an extrovert.
12. You’d rather be an expert at one thing than try to do everything.
13. You actively avoid any shows that might involve audience participation.
14. You screen all your calls — even from friends.
15. You notice details that others don’t.
16. You have a constantly running inner monologue.
17. You have low blood pressure.
18. You’ve been called an “old soul” -– since your 20s.
19. You don’t feel “high” from your surroundings
20. You look at the big picture.
21. You’ve been told to “come out of your shell.”
22. You’re a writer.
23. You alternate between phases of work and solitude, and periods of social activity.
Additional resources when you are new to pyroluria (and using amino acids)
Here is the pyroluria questionnaire.
Many of my clients with pyroluria also have neurotransmitter imbalances so we use the the neurotransmitter symptoms questionnaire to figure out if low serotonin or low GABA or low endorphins or low dopamine or low blood sugar may be an issue too. Keep in mind that the pyroluria nutrients also help with neurotransmitter production.
If you suspect pyroluria and low levels of any of the neurotransmitters and do not yet have my book, The Antianxiety Food Solution – How the Foods You Eat Can Help You Calm Your Anxious Mind, Improve Your Mood, and End Cravings, I highly recommend getting it and reading it before jumping in and using the pyroluria protocol and amino acids on your own so you are knowledgeable. And be sure to share it with the practitioner/health team you or your loved one is working with.
There is an entire chapter on pyroluria and another chapter on the amino acids. There are also chapters on gut health, gluten, blood sugar control, sugar cravings, and more.
The book doesn’t include product names (per the publisher’s request) so this blog, The Antianxiety Food Solution Amino Acid and Pyroluria Supplements, lists the pyroluria supplements and the amino acids that I use with my individual clients and those in my group programs.
If, after reading this blog and my book, you don’t feel comfortable figuring things out on your own (i.e. doing the symptoms questionnaire and respective amino acids trials), a good place to get help is the GABA QuickStart Program (if you have low GABA symptoms too). This is a paid online/virtual group program where you get my guidance and community support.
If you are a practitioner, join us in The Balancing Neurotransmitters: the Fundamentals program. This is also a paid online/virtual program with an opportunity to interact with me and other practitioners who are also using the amino acids.
I’d love to hear from you if you resonate with being an introvert and the 23 questions in Carolyn’s article (listed above). Please comment below and tell us which of the introvert qualities you identify with? numbers are fine – so for example, just say #s 1, 4,5,6,7,8, 13-18, 20-23 = total of 18
Would you please also take a look at the pyroluria questionnaire and share how you score? Again, which numbers and total score. I acknowledge that this may not apply to all introverts but I would love to know how prevalent this is.
If you are an introvert and struggle with crowds or networking, feel anxious and have a busy mind and inner monologue, you may possibly find some relief with the pyroluria protocol. Let us know if the pyroluria nutrients have helped you and how much of each helps.
If you’re a practitioner do you see this connection with your clients/patients who are introverts?
Feel free to share and ask your questions below.
Wow! Can I identify with a lot of these qualities! In the past I’ve taken a B complex supplement, but then I had adverse effects. Not sure if the dosage was too high or what. What is the minimum dose of B6 you’d recommend?
Annie
Thanks for commenting! Could you list which of the introvert qualities you identify with? numbers are fine.
And then tell me if you also identify with the pyroluria qualities here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/pyroluria-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/ – and which numbers.
And then let me what dose B complex, brand if you know and what adverse effects. Then I can share some info on vitamin B6 and doses.
Thanks
Trudy
What dose do u recommend for Vit B6 and zinc for social aniexity ?
Hi Monica
This post has plenty of information on this https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/pyroluria-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/
Do come back and let us know how you do
Trudy
Thanks for replying!
The numbers on this page that I identify with are: 1, 2, 3, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, & 23. And I’d say more so as I age.
Then on the other questionnaire, I identify with: 1-6, 12, 13, 14, 16, 17, 19, 21, 22 and 24-29.
I checked and looks like I took a B12 vitamin, 1000mcg made by NatureMade. I did not feel like myself when I took it…like my mind was revved up.
Annie
You’re so welcome – thank YOU for helping me with my proposed correlation between introvert traits and pyroluria symptoms!
To summarize…we’re seeing a correlation with you
Introvert traits: 14 out of 23, so more than half and possibly more
Pyroluria symptoms: 20 out of 42 – the cut off for pyroluria is typically 15
Please bear with me as I look at each of these traits/symptoms for both questionnaires and find the overlaps. I’ll post here once I do that – likely Wednesday as I have an all day event Tuesday. Sorry to keep you in suspense…in the meantime, do read all the comments on the pyroluria blog – lots of great info there
PS I just updated the pyroluria questionnaire to have numbers – sorry about that!
Trudy
Annie,
I see a direct correlation with introvert questions 1, 2, 3 and 14 to pyroluria questions 26 and 27 – not liking crowds and preferring one on one interactions
Introvert question 6 could correlate with pyroluria questions 1 and 2 – and definitely with pyroluria question 1 which is the classic pyroluria symptom – inner tension and anxiety you cover up.
Introvert question 9, sitting at the end and not in the middle correlates with pyroluria question 28 – being bothered by being seated in the middle of the room in a restaurant
Introvert questions 10 and 23 correlate with pyroluria question 24 – symptoms are made worse with stress
Introvert question 16 – inner monologue can be a sign of low serotonin which is common with pyroluria and correlates with pyroluria question 21
Introvert question 17, low blood pressure correlates with pyroluria questions 12 and 19 because we often see low blood pressure, bright light sensitivity, allergies etc with adrenal fatigue.
I’d suggest looking into a protocol for pyroluria and getting adrenal support and neurotransmitter support. Based on the success I see with women with the symptoms you list, I am confident you can overcome many, if not all of these uncomfortable symptoms!
To answer your question about Bs – you may not have needed the B12 and it may have been the wrong form or too much.
And re B6, the starting dose I use with clients is 100mg and we go up from there, based on dream recall.
Thanks again for being so forthright with your answers!
Trudy
Sounds great…thank you!
OMG I don’t have ALL of the 23 traits but I do have many of them. I laughed out loud about “would rather speak in front of 500 people than make small talk” that is SO me. I’m already taking zinc and B6 thanks to you.
Interesting isn’t it Sue! If you resonate with “would rather speak in front of 500 people than make small talk” you will likely benefit from either more zinc or more B6, and possibly evening primrose oil too
Trudy
Trudy, I am not only an extrovert I am in that odd 5% who is a “WOO” (winning others over according to Buckingham and Clifton): a person who actually enjoys being dropped in a crowd of strangers. However I do have introverted clients and friends so I appreciate your insights. I hadn’t thought about it being an extrovert’s world before.
Mary Ellen
I have not heard that term WOO – interesting! I’ll be looking further into this.
And yes, it’s very interesting to think about it being an introvert’s world. I think it can help tremendously with how we interact with others
Trudy
I’d have to say it’s safe to say I am NOT and have never been an introvert (I just said that out loud to a paper bag… see? I’ll talk to anyone and anything, pretty much anywhere). But this is good info for helping my introverted clients. I will definitely share this!
Thanks for sharing with your introverted clients Jessica!
This is very interesting as I’ve never heard of pyroluria. When I was a child, I was extremely shy, and I grew out of that as I matured into an adult. Now I definitely consider myself an introvert. I only go to parties when I know who’s hosting or know most of the people who will be there. I have to have a couple days a week where I interact with very few people. I love being an introvert. 🙂
Thanks for sharing Keri and I love that you love being an introvert. Do you resonate with most of the introvert questions here? how about the pyroluria questions?
Thanks for posting this, Trudy! I had no idea! I used to be an introvert- as a child. Got annoyed with it and took care of it in college by majoring in Theatre- lol. Wish I’d known there was an easier way! I never even heard of this or pondered that it could be chemical. Thanks 🙂
Good for you Miranda. Stress can bring it on so keep it mind in case it ever becomes as issue. I see it becoming an issue for many women as they go into perimenopause.
Did the theatre change you?
Trudy,
Thank you so much for taking the time to review my answers and get back to me with your recommendations.
I will try the B6 and am wondering about the adrenal support and neurotransmitter support you mention. What does that mean? Do I need to have testing done?
Thanks again!
You’re so welcome! and yes, working with someone like me or another nutritionist who is familiar with all of this to see where you may have deficiencies – some testing and some questionnaires. I do work with people via phone if you’d like to learn more about possibly working with me. BTW, if you have pyroluria you likely need zinc and evening primrose oil too
Thank you Trudy! I may be calling you soon for a consultation. Your ‘every woman mood’ program sounds right up my alley!
When I was young, I was painfully introverted. So nice to look back and see how comfortable I am now meeting and getting to know new people. Thanks!
Love,
Katherine
Katherine C. H. E.
Author, Be True Rich
Fabulous article. Great to know that there are some straightforward nutritional supports that may help make things a little less uncomfortable for those who struggle with introversion.
I used to be very introverted when I was younger and now consider myself mildly introverted.according to your questionnaires 12 on the first test and 19 on the other, I still have away to go.
Thanks for sharing your scores Bill. I’d suggest looking into the supplements to get you to your “social butterfly” status sooner!
LOL – I love this article – I come from a family of introverts and am probably the most outgoing of them all – funnily enough there were often theatre shows I wanted to see as a kid and they said no – now I know why it was because there might be audience participation and to my family (who were all theatre performers themselves) they died at the thought of not knowing what to expect
Interesting about your family being introverts and theatre performers – and then not enjoying audience participation. They sound like they fit what is being described here?
Interesting article. We do learn something new everyday
about the world around us don’t we?
I think it is interesting how we stigmatize people for being “quiet” rather than “loud.” I am definitely an introvert, but this never caused me a problem because I am not shy. I’m definitely not afraid to speak to people and I smile at everyone I meet (I’m from the South).
Shyness can be a sign of social anxiety. While most people who are shy tend to be introverts, not all introverts are shy or anxious.
For instance, I hate small talk because I often find it boring and frivolous, not because I’m anxious about it. But I love networking and I’m good at it.
Very interesting topic. Would love to know more about pyroluria. Have you worked with any men with this?
Tiffany
I agree, it’s a pity we stigmatize this and anything that is perceived as being outside the “norm” – whatever that is!? I see this in the mental health world a lot!
Thanks for sharing that you’re an introvert and how you feel about small talk and networking. There are obviously many “variations” and nuances to all of this and as with everything, there is no one-size-fits-all.
Pyroluria is one of my favorite topics and I do see it with men and have worked with men to address their symptoms. But I do see more women with this. It may be just that I work mostly with women. But men tend to less verbal and open about their anxiety issues so that could be part of the picture too.
As a proud, happy, non-shy, non-anxious, smiling introvert, I’d love to know if you resonate with ANY of the pyroluria symptoms?
Trudy
Trudy,
Your book arrived today and I am so excited to read about the Antianxiety Food Solution!
Just a quick question – I am on a small dose of fluoxetine (5mg) – do you know if taking any of the B6, zinc, and other pyroluria supplements will have an adverse effect since I’m still taking an anti-depressant? I asked my dr and she said she “didn’t think so”…I was looking more for a firm “no” before proceeding.
I’d like to get off of the conventional medicine altogether and looking forward to implementing your solution. Just wondering if its ok to take both supplements and conventional meds at the same time.
Thanks!
Annie
Hello again! I have my clients take B6 and zinc with fluoxetine. I have them talk to and ask their doctor because they are both co-factors for making neurotransmitters and will start help with serotonin production.
My book does cover serotonin syndrome and amino acids specifically.
Pop back here and let us know how you’re doing. Although I’m sure I don’t have to say this! 🙂
Trudy
Great article, as always, Trudy! I’m border-line and am actually, as I get older, tending to be more outgoing. Who would have thunk it? But, still, this is great information.
For the folks asking Trudy questions, if you’re considering consulting with her, she’s great! She’s very kind and patient, and extremely knowledgeable. And she’s not paying me for this comment, LOL.
Kamran,
Have you considered that it may be some of the nutrients that are contributing to the fact that you are tending to be more outgoing as you get older?
Thanks for that lovely comment. You are too kind! Sending a virtual hug!
Trudy
Thank you Trudy!! Will do!
Certainly everyone has their own personality and some people get “energy” by being with others and some by having time alone, but when it’s preventing someone from doing something they want to, looking at biochemistry is a great place to consider. When anxiety and other emotions predominate, considering one’s personal biochemistry: pyroluria, deficiencies, and amino acid needs can really help. It’s really great to hear your experience!
thanks Julie! and yes …it’s time to take action when how you feel is preventing you from doing something you want to! Addressing biochemistry may be the missing puzzle piece for many people!
Trudy, thanks for posting this, I had never heard of pyroluria before. I personally am really happy all this introvert stuff is quite the buzz – I actually thought something was wrong with me before learning about the real differences between the two. From the introvert list I resonate with 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 10, 15, 17, 18, 20, 21, 22, 23. However from the pyroluria quiz I only resonate with 3, 9, 10, 20, 22, 30. I have been working with a nutritionist who does nutrition response testing (NRT) for the last 10 months or so – I had some major toxicity issues and have been taking supplements that have B6, and sometimes ones that have zinc in them (depending on what my body indicates via muscle testing for that particular visit) and have noticed a lot of changes in my mood – of course I do a lot of meditation and other self-development work too and I think the combination of all those things have made it much easier for me to be out in the world, but I still consider myself an introvert. 😉
Tracy
Thanks for sharing your scores. Its great to hear you’re noticing a change in your mood. If your pyroluria score was higher 10 months ago, before working with a nutritionist, perhaps the zinc and B6 is helping? and of course the meditation and other self-development work too
Trudy
Hi Trudy – thanks for posting this article.
I’m a total believer in the importance of a healthy, balanced diet as one of the bases for general emotional and mental wellbeing – I don’t think it’s the be-all and end-all, but it can certainly be an important piece in the puzzle. And I absolutely support getting a blood test from your GP to check your nutrient levels if you’re worried that deficiency or malabsorption may be an issue.
That said, I think it’s really important not to conflate introversion with anxiety about introversion (or indeed, about shyness or high sensitivity, or anxiety about shyness or HSP which are each different… although there can absolutely be situations people experience all three traits, with or without feeling anxious about them)
Remember that introversion/extroversion is about where you draw your energy: from being alone (introversion) vs being with other people (extroversion). We introverts need to “spend” energy on interacting with other people and then we recharge in moments of blissful solitude. Our extroverted friends are pretty much the opposite: they wilt when they have to spend too much time alone, and get a buzz out of being with other people.
I think that often, where introverts ARE anxious, it’s because they feel as though they’re expected to act in ways that fit the extroverted ideal of our culture – to ignore their regular need for solitude and to “be someone they’re not” when they’re around other people. For introverts like me, who aren’t in the slightest shy, and who’ve learned to ask for what we need without making anyone else wrong for it, the story can be very different 🙂
It’s also probably important to remember that some of the folks who are most anxious about being shy are actually the extroverts (which makes sense: they need connection with other people to “juice up”, but they’re afraid or unsure of how to initiate the connection).
I love that you’ve found a nutritional way to help folks with anxiety – that’s awesome. I’m just not sure I buy the tie-in to nutrition affecting how introverted or extroverted we are 🙂
Blessings
TANJA
Tanja
Thanks for sharing – I know you’re passionate about the topic!
We are all unique and there is no one size fits all. I just want to help people who feel anxious whether they are introverts or not. Based on the Huffington post blog comments and the work I do, many introverts would like to feel more comfortable and confident in social settings. If a pyroluria protocol can help them then I’m doing my job!
I’m certainly curious about this comment: “some of the folks who are most anxious about being shy are actually the extroverts”. Interesting…I’ll be looking out for this.
I’d also love to know how you score on the pyroluria questionnaire?
I’d also like to expand on your first paragraph about a healthy diet being an important piece of the puzzle – it’s actually a very BIG piece for the majority of my clients. And as far as nutritional deficiencies and malabsorption goes, I do recommend basic blood work + functional testing like fatty acids, Spectracell, adrenals, food intolerances etc.
Trudy
PS – there’s some fascinating research that I first read about in Marti Olsen Laney’s “The Introvert Advantage”, and which I mentioned in my recent free call on how introverts can learn to promote themselves online in ways that DON’T drain their energy (http://crystalclaritycopywriting.com/introverts-guide-to-promotion-free-training-call-info.html), all about preliminary evidence for biological differences in the brains of introverts and extroverts.
One study looked at the fact that extroverts tend have a much stronger reaction to the “pleasure neurotransmitter” dopamine than introverts do, while introverts tend to respond more strongly to a different neurotransmitter: acetylcholine.
Another looked at the different areas of bloodflow to the brains of introverts and extroverts who were required to lie still and do absolutely nothing for a period of time. The introverts’ brains showed far more bloodflow overall and in the thinking/planning areas “at rest” than the extroverts’ brains did. One interpretation was that the introverts had a much higher natural level of activity at rest, and that this may be why too much external interaction can be overwhelming for them.
It’s important to acknowledge that this research was just preliminary, and I don’t know that any firm conclusions were drawn from it (plus, there’s the whole “correlation vs causation” question) But it’s still fascinating, and *may* indicate that we’re actually introverted or extroverted for a biological reason, rather than just as learned behaviour.
io9.com covered a little of this research too if you’re interested in checking it out: http://io9.com/the-science-behind-extroversion-and-introversion-1282059791
Blessings
TANJA
Thanks Tanja – I’ve signed up for your call and will report back 🙂 Fascinating about the research…if there is a biological reason then it certainly does go towards supporting my suggestion that nutrients like zinc and B6 may make a difference!
The dopamine / acetylcholine differences intrigue me even more. I do a lot of work with balancing brain chemicals with individual amino acids so will be checking this one out.
Also, there is research showing that celiac disease reduces blood flow to the brain, so I wonder if this is a factor? Probably not, because we often see worse mood problems when someone has celiac disease or gluten intolerance.
One more thought: when I read that introverts prefer less stimulating environments I immediately think of adrenal issues…something else to consider? another biological factor that nutrients can address.
I have much to learn….and this won’t be the last blog post on this topic. I just saw new research that shows that introverted women do not breastfeed as long as extroverted women – is it postpartum anxiety, social anxiety or low milk production or a combo? Interestingly, zinc is a factor in all of the above!
Trudy
I just went through your questionnaire. I checked of 27 total. (21 of the first 29) I am STUNNED….now what? I will be scouring your website for answers and solutions. Thank you for posting your comment on that Huffington Post article, I have never heard of Pyroluria. I will be sending this info to my mom, sister & daughter. I’m almost certain that we all have it.
Hi Emily
You’re very welcome and I’m so pleased this was eye-opening for you. It is very common for pyroluria to run in families and many of my clients will also tell mom, sister and daughter.
You say now what? I suggest getting on the pyroluria protocol and seeing how you do. You’ll get plenty of information from my comments on this blog post https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/pyroluria-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/
I welcome you to sign up for my ezine “Food, Mood and Gal Stuff” [top right] so you keep getting information as I write more about this and other food mood articles
Trudy
Interesting, but I rule out nothing. I’ve checked 15 of the 23. MBTI has me as INTJ but further analysis of the score by a certified facilitator show I use a good deal of extroverting. Likely learned. Andmost recently discovered I am more of an ambivert, which many of us are along the i/e spectrum.
I see you have another article for us to look at too. I will do that.
zinc, vitamin B6 and evening primrose oil? How will you create a valid research study for your premise?
I’ll be back.
Thanks!
Hi Patricia
Thanks for commenting and for not ruling out anything on this topic, especially since you are “America’s #1 Coach for Introverts”! I look forward to your feedback once you’ve looked at the pyroluria questionnaire.
Right now I am just getting feedback to see how many people resonate with both the introversion questionnaire and the pyroluria questionnaire. Then I plan to have some of these people do the puroluria protocol – zinc, vitamin B6 and evening primrose oil – and provide feedback after a month.
I’ve also had some discussions with a naturopathic doctor about doing some research in this area.
Trudy
Hi Trudy! Thank you for all the good information.
I have never been considered an introvert. I do tend to get “charged” by being in a crowd. BUT, I also tend to make a fool of myself in a crowd and more and more I tend to avoid crowds. When I was a child, I was often told “you are very mature for your age–from the age of 7 y/o. I: have slowly come to realize over the years (I’m 57) that I have lived under a heavy burden of stress all my life. I went through your Pyroluria & introvert questionnaires and here is my results:
Pyroluria: 3,4,9,12,13,14,15,16,18,19,20,21,25,26,31,39, & some related to 35 & 36. One more issue is constant constipation (not just morning).
Introvert: 1,2,3,4,5,6,8,15,17,18(?),20,22(sort of),23
I am seeing a functional medicine Doctor. He has me on a handful of hormones and soon starting a B complex supplement. I am also Zoloft which I have taken for about 7 years. (My brother is a Doctor and he says I have always been depressed. Not a nice thought, but I finally got help with it anyway. 🙂
Hi April
You are very welcome!
It’s interesting that you don’t consider yourself an introvert and yet you resonate with so many of the traits of introversion. And you score high-ish on the pyroluria questionnaire too – the avoidance of crowds is a classic one. I’d suggest talking to your doctor about pyroluria and sharing the questionnaire and your score. Zinc and vitamin B6 are also important co-factors for making serotonin and help tremendously with both depression and anxiety. Here is recent research on zinc http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23700944 and a recent blog post on zinc, turmeric and tryptophan for mood and brain health https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/zinc-turmeric-and-tryptophan-for-brain-health-and-mood/
Thanks for commenting!
Trudy
Thank you, Trudy.
It is odd, isn’t it, that I would score so high. No one who knows me would think of me as an introvert. I was raised to “be up front” and act with confidence in any situation. I tend to be a clown sometimes and other times just very outspoken. Nevertheless, I know I am an emotional wreck inside. It is difficult to know how to “act” in any given situation. By God’s grace alone I get by. But most of the time what I really want to do is be a recluse. It is at least, good to recognize what is going on inside of me. I have a chance at finding answers. Then, maybe, I will be able to cope effectively. 🙂
Hi April
No, it’s not that odd – many people with pyroluria push through, put on a brave front and pretend all is good when in fact, they are a mess and feel very uncomfortable. Also, society tends to favor and accept those who are more outspoken so many introverts/pyrolurics “learn” to be this way. I’ve recently heard this term used as a verb: they “extrovert”.
My goal is to help people like you find answers so you can feel confident, calm, happy and feel on top of the world again, and not have to simply “cope”! Pyroluria is just one piece of the puzzle so I encourage to continue to dig and read until you have all the answers – you deserve it!
You’ll find tons of information on my blog:
low blood sugar – https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/glutamine-for-low-blood-sugar-and-calming-effects/
gluten issues – https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/gluten-and-the-serious-effects-on-mental-health-adaa-2013/
low GABA and low serotonin – https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-mood-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/
caffeine – https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/carob-cinnamon-not-coffee-calming/
inflammation – https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/inflammation-in-stress-anxiety-and-depression/
pesticides – https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/organic-foods-stanford-study-pesticides-and-the-brain/
and much more …..
Please let me know how you’re doing and if I can help further
Trudy
Trudy, I do have a question about GABA.
I have some GABA powder I have had for several years. Does it go bad? I’ve been using it recently but am unsure about it. :-/
Your kind attention to all us is more than sweet.
Blessings!
🙂 April – I always discard old products!
Hi Trudy! Just a brief update.
I’ve been taking about 2500mg GABA at night the past 2 nights. And both yesterday and today I feel more rested, more awake, than I have for a very long time. YAY! I thought I had B6, but can’t find it. I already take Zinc 50mg every day. I’m going to try doubling it for awhile and see what happens.
I’ve been a virtual experiment for about 20 years :-/ so I’m quite used to the “try it and see what happens” scene.
I haven’t been able to read your other blogs yet, will do that later today and I’m looking forward to what I learn.
So grateful!
April
Hi April – thanks for the update – so glad you’re feeling better. I’m thinking you mean 250mg GABA as 2500mg is typically a high amount for most of my clients?! Also, I tell my clients that “more is sometimes not better with some supplements.”
I resonate so much with this. So much that I wrote down my the numbers that didn’t sound like me – from the 23, 7,8,17 & 22. From the other article, 4,7,13,15,18,20,22,30,34,37,38,40 & 42. My anxiety and depression seems to be getting worse and I’m worried about standing up in front of 150 people for my wedding. I get so nervous sometimes that I can’t control my digestive system. I’m not sure where to start as to the amount and what brands of vitamins I should get. Any suggestions?
Hi Victoria
Getting married is often a more stressful time for many people so if you do have pyroluria, this stress many be why your anxiety and depression seems worse. When a person with pyroluria is under more stress they lose even more zinc and vitamin B6.
Keep in mind that pyroluria is just one aspect to consider. You mention not being able to control your digestive system…gluten or other food intolerances may be an issue. I’d also consider low serotonin as the majority is in the gut. And of course enzyme status, dysbiosis and yeast should be considered.
I would look at all of the above and then also start my clients on 30 mg Optizinc and 100mg vitamin B6.
Do let me know if you need some one-on-one support trying to navigate this. The first step is to do the 15 minute complimentary phone consult and then I can recommend which program may suit your needs. Here is the link to download the 2 forms (assessment and disclosure) and to schedule our initial phone assessment https://www.everywomanover29.com/initialconsult.html
When are you getting married? we need you to enjoy this special day and not feel anxious and depressed!
Trudy
Re: Dosage of GABA
Trudy, I really meant 2500 mg. My bottle of GABA powder (Source Naturals) says 1/4 tsp. (approx750mg) is the recommended dose. I’m not sure why I’ve been taking a tsp, which is closer to 3000mg. But, truth be told, I have. I thought I had read it somewhere. Apparently it was in my dreams. I do recall having tried the 1/4 tsp at first and didn’t experience any noticeable improvement in sleep. Oh me…… Now what?
Hi Trudy
I took 1/8 tsp (Source Naturals GABA powder @ 750mg per 1/4 tsp) am & pm 3 or 4 times a day for a several days, and my comfort level plummeted–hard to get to sleep & didn’t sleep well. Also, I had started having natural bowel movements with the addition of coconut oil to my diet. And that also came to a halt. So, I upped the GABA to 1/4 tsp. My ability to sleep May have slightly improved. Since you said the amt I was taking was too much, I’m at a loss as to what to do now. I will try to ease up a bit more so as not to get wild with it again. Any educated ideas?
April
I really cannot give you specific feedback via my blog. This would be something I could do for a client when I have a complete health history.
Each person is unique and has their own needs and I just shared what is a typical dose of GABA as a FYI for you and other readers of my blog.
Trudy
Hi! I identify with numbers 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 10, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, and 23. The questions I didn’t relate to were mostly because they were out of context in my life!!
I have spent years in and out of bouts of depression and anxiety, and can always tell when my neural transmitters have become depleted. I am currently being treated for adrenal fatigue, and I’m using Thorne Adrenal Cortex.
I take lots of B vitamins, Zinc picolinate, and many other supps, and I’m intolerant of gluten, dairy, potatoes, coffee, and anything else that cross-reacts with gluten, and I’ve cut all those foods.
Is there anything else I should be doing for the pyroluria protocol? What are the other symptoms?
I’ve spent so much on testing already this year, and I’d hate to have to get another test done just to confirm what this questionnaire seems to suggest to me…
Hi Ann
Here is the questionnaire for pyroluria https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/pyroluria-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/ – check out the comments on this pyroluria blog post to get an idea of the supplements I use with my clients with pyroluria.
You don’t mention how much zinc or how much vitamin B6. Evening primrose oil is also often needed.
Trudy
Here are my numbers I can relate to:
Pyroluria Questionnaire from Antianxiety Solution
1, 3, 6, 11, 12, 15, 18, 20, 22, 25, 26, 27, 29, 32, 33, 34, 35, 39, 40
23 questions in Carolyn’s Article
1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 9, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 20, 21
Could you tell me how much of the supplements I should take? Also could you give me the recommended dosage for my son who I believe also inherited pyroluria? Is there a pill that includes everything we would need or do we have to take multiple pills? Do you recommend a certain company that has quality supplements?
Jane
Thanks for answering both quizzes – interesting isn’t it!
I start my clients on 30 mg Optizinc (Solaray’s brand is copper-free), 100mg vitamin B6 and 1300mg Evening Primrose Oil. Kids may need less to start. I find that it’s best to take them individually so you can adjust each one if needed.
Do also check out the comments on this pyroluria blog post to get an idea of the supplements I use with my clients with pyroluria https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxious-introvert-because-of-low-zinc-and-vitamin-b6
Thanks
Trudy
Hi Trudy –
This is SO me! Here are my results:
Pyroluria Questionnaire from Antianxiety Solution –
1,2,3,4,5,6,11,12,13,14,18,19,20,24,25,26,27,28,29,31,34,36,39,42
23 questions in Carolyn’s Article –
1,2,3,4,6,9,10,11,13,14,15,16
Hi Cheri
Thanks for sharing 🙂 do let us know how you do on the nutrient protocol for pyroluria!
Trudy
Hi Trudy,
I have just had my pyroluria test which came back positive.
For Carolyn’s article, I identified with numbers
1 2 4 6 7 8 9 13 14 15 16 17 23
For the Pyroluria Questionaire I agreed with
1 2 3 4 5 9 11 13 14 15 16 18 19 21 22 24 26 29 30 31 32 33
Hi Marisa
Thanks for doing the 2 questionnaires and sharing your results with us, the fact that your pyroluria test came back positive.
Please keep us posted as to how you do when you get on the nutrients
Trudy
Hi Trudy,
For this questionnaire I marked: 3, 8,13, 15, 17, 18, 20 = 7 items. I’ll go to the other one now. Thanks for all you are doing!
Great thanks!
Wow! I just listened to your interview in the Anxiety Summit and was fascinated by Pyroluria. I’ve always identified myself as an introvert even though I jumped out of airplanes and lead soldiers in the Army. I do much better in front of people than I do one-on-one. As a small business owner sometimes I think I have learned to deal with some of my introvertedness, but I can’t believe that some of my “anxious introvert” symptoms may be caused by something like this!! This would be such a relief as I am very anxious about a pending upcoming move.
Here are my results from your Questionnaire: 1-6, (never tried liquid zinc so I couldn’t answer 7), 9,10, 12-16, 18-21, 25, 26, 27, 29-32, 36, 38, 39 = 27 total. These are not severe and all the time, but enough that I notice.
From Carolyn’s article: 1-6, 8, 10, 15-18, 20, 21, 23 = 15 total.
I do have a doc appt on Thurs to have some thyroid and other testing done and may see if my doc can add in some of the ones from your interview- if the lab offers them.
I am ordering your book btw and look forward to learning more from you!
Thanks again for your work!
Jessica
So glad it resonated with you! And as I say – we have to learn to deal with the introvertedness – it’s too hard!
Please keep us posted and thanks for sharing your scores and experiences
Trudy
I am also seeing a few of the symptoms in my kids (my daughter is 9 and my son is 6). My son has a significant speech delay/ impediment so I know some of his anxiety and shyness is due to that, but my daughter is 9 and tends to be more introverted like me. I have a hard time getting her to eat meat most of the time and she wakes up with headaches and even nausea some days- and of course, I have a hard time getting her to eat breakfast before I take her to school. This is so interesting! Do you recommend a variation of the protocol for kids?
Jessica
I’ve had great results with kids and yes just start on a lower dose of everything (eg. for a 60lb child I start with half the adult dose). A liquid GLA if often easier for kids than the typical big GLA capsules.
Trudy
Wow, Trudy, just listening to your talk, (I commented over on your Pyroluria questionare too. This questionaire I had nearly everything. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 10, 11, 13,14,15,16,17,19,20,21,22,23
WOW!
I set up a 15min consult, but don’t want to start on too much without your book. I always worry it will stir up anxiety by accident.
I”m trying to come to terms with how much this applies to me, when I listened to this anxiety summit to help my boys with autism! 🙂 I am so hopeful how much this might help all of us heal. Thank you so much Trudy for all your work. Can’t wait to talk with you.
RIta D
Hi Rita
Thanks for sharing and I look forward to being able to help!
I hope you also heard my interview with Julie Matthews on special diets. She is an autism nutrition expert and has written a great book Nourishing Hope for Autism
Trudy
Hi Trudy –
I have truly enjoyed the Anxiety Summit and although it has been a bit overwhelming getting so much new information in such a short period of time, I do feel that I have learned a lot and am grateful for all of the good information that has been shared. Thank you.
I have completed the Pyroluria Questionnaire, and although I haven’t come up with a positive 15, I have identified 14 (a combination of the most common and the less common) and have a few additional items that I am not certain about. Here are the 14: #s 1-3, 10-12, 14, 19, 21, 26, 29-31 & 34. #s 13, 27 & 42 are the ones I am uncertain about. I hesitate to expand on my reasons for this here, so I’ll just leave it at that.
I have also completed the 23 Signs You’re Secretly an Introvert Questionnaire and following are the numbers I have identified: #s 1-4, 7, 9, 12, 15, 16, 19 & 21 = Total of 11.
In addition, I have gone through the Amino Acids Mood Questionnaire and identified 10 of the Low Serotonin statements, 4 of the Low Catecholamines statements and 2 of the Low Endorphins statements.
I have long ago given up coffee, soda & artificial sweeteners, and about a year ago parted ways with gluten & most grains, dairy, sugar and most other natural sweeteners. I have also been leaning more and more towards organic and even raw food. However, I would have had a number of added statements regarding cravings and using foods for a variety of reasons including the popular “I love chocolate,” ice cream & desserts in general and pasta, bread & chips. Interestingly enough, since I removed them from my diet, I really don’t noticeably miss them. I also do not eat out very often anymore and am very particular about where I will go when I do. For what it’s worth, let me add that I have been a vegetarian for about 14 years and have no interest in eating any animal products.
I was first introduced to your work by Aimee Serafini in her recent Loving Food Loving Life Summit. Having suffered with depression, shyness and a bit of social anxiety for most of my life, as well as emotional eating, I was quite surprised & hopeful to learn of the Amazing Amino Acids. I was also on SSRI antidepressants for around 25 years and only recently weaned off of them a couple of years ago.
Please forgive me for rambling on and on, I am at somewhat of a loss for knowing how to go forward, particularly since I think I might have a thyroid problem and perhaps an adrenal problem as well as the possibility of leaky gut syndrome and a toxic overload in my system. Unfortunately, I am very limited financially at present and my insurance coverage is very mainstream allopathic.
I mainly just wanted to share my questionnaire results with you. But, it seems that all of the other information on the side has its place too in providing a broader view of the individual specifics in each case.
Hi Ellen
Thanks for sharing all of this – good for you making all those changes.
With a high score on the serotonin Q I’d start there. The amazing aminos work right away if they are going to work.
With limited finances I suggest my book The Antianxiety Food Solution.
And I really do encourage you to listen to your body and consider animal protein – sorry, I know you don’t want to hear it. If this is not an option I recommend a free form amino acid blend with tryptophan (like Total Amino Solution).
Trudy
Hi Trudy,
I received my pyroluria results which came back at 56.
I have started taking all types of vitamins one of which being zinc picolinate. I started with 25mg then went up to 50mg but whenever I do this I perspire all day and night.
Do you have any idea why. Haven’t asked the doctor who diagnosed the condition.
Marisa
Marisa
I can’t give you specific advice but any time anyone takes a supplement and gets an adverse reaction they should stop and observe symptoms. I’ll often have my clients try less or try another form. Of course the assumption is that there is a deficiency in the first place.
I would suggest talking to your doctor.
Trudy
I’m curious hear what you think. I don’t think I relate really to pyroluria but I have been looking more into nutrition. I’ve been taking magnesium suppliments to combat feeling down during pms–along with some other symptoms of low magnesium. I’ve taken some Bvitamins here and there too but not really looked into zinc before.
For the introvert list: 2,3,4,6,7,8,10,13,15,16,19,20&22=13
For the pyroluria list: 1,2,6,9,10,14,16,21,24,25,26,29=12
A few in each list are only a ‘maybe’. I might look into B6 & zinc more but I figure at least my answers may be helpful for your research. 🙂
Hi Kel
Thanks for sharing your responses – this does help with my “research”. Someone with these scores may benefit from additional zinc and vitamin B6, both of which help PMS (as does evening primrose oil).
Trudy
I scored over 30. Only 3 were vitamin B6 on its own and 6 were zinc on its own so the rest 25 were both zinc and B6. I have suspected for a long time that I was zinc deficient and have been looking for a suitable supplement to take. I have low thyroid and listening to Suzy Cohen the other day, she said that being on synthetic T4 one should be taking zinc with it. Good news is that I have finally found a holistic doctor a few kilometers from my place who specializes in thyroid problems so am trying to figure out how I can get to see him. I was also vitamin A deficient, torn retinas, also suspect iron problems so on a course of it with the B vitamins and Vitamin C in it. Liquid. So now have to find out a good brand of zinc that will work for me. I get my supplements from Swanson’s in the US,my sister recommended them. Are they as good as she said?
Hi Louise
Thanks for sharing. Glad you found a holistic doctor. I have not used Swanson’s so can’t really comment on that.
Trudy
This is very interesting. My introvert numbers are 1,2,3,4,6,10, 14, 16, 17, 19, 20, 21 = 12 and for Pyroluria 1,3,4,6,9,12,13,15,16,19,20,24,25,26,27,29,32,33,35,36,38,39 = 22. I’ve always felt like an extrovert trapped in an introverts body. I did become a bit more outgoing when I switched to a Paleo diet but based on these numbers have a ways to go.
Hi Jennifer
Thanks for sharing! Very interesting about the Paleo diet comment! I’d love to hear how things go for you if you get on the pyroluria protocol
Trudy
Wow, this is so interesting. It’s an old post but I just found your blog Trudy, after listening to the anxiety summit. Unfortunately I have had bouts of anxiety for the first time in my life this past year- my health just deteriorated after a bad case of food poisoning a year ago.
I definately have always thought of myself as being an introvert. I always find parties and gatherings with lots of people stressful. I’ve always been shy, but more so in childhood.
My introvert numbers are: 1,2,3,4,6,11,13,17,20,21,23.
My Pyroluria numbers are: 1,3,5,6,8,9,10,13,14,16,17,20,22,24,25,26,27,29, 30,31,32, 33, (35),39
What do you think? Perhaps I should test for pyroluria?
Claire – thanks for sharing your scores. I don’t test for pyroluria and just get my clients on the protocol and monitor symptoms – simple and powerful!
Do you think according to my scores I should start pyroluria/zinc/B6 etc. supplementation? And see how I feel? I’ve ordered the liquid zinc to test myself.
Why do you not test for pyroluria? Is it not accurate?
What worries me about supplementation is that excess zinc could make you copper deficient. How can one avoid this? Is there a test to check for copper status perhaps?
Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Claire
I have most of my women clients on the zinc, B6 and EPO as it helps with pyroluria and hormone balancing. If someone scores 15+ then I would put them on the supps for sure. Using the zinc sulfate is a good way to assess zinc status.
I find that the pyroluria test often is a false negative so I don’t use it any more.
The copper concern is a valid one but not an issue I’ve found with pyrolurics. You could test copper and ceruloplasmin.
Trudy
Hello there, I’ve been reading about Pyroluria for a while now and I’m 99% sure I have this problem. All my life I’ve been shy and anxious around people I don’t know, and in big gatherings. I assumed I would grow out of this but I’m 23 now and showing no signs of coming out myself anytime soon. Over the past year I’ve developed anxiety and depression. I’ve always felt low in energy and enthusiasm, and this have been noticeable to others all my life.
My pyroluria numbers are:
1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 10, 12, 14, 16, 17, 21, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 32, 33, 34, 39
Alot of doctors haven’t heard of this condition, and I highly doubt I will be taken seriously If I suggest I have it. Can you recommend a type of doctor or person who would be familiar with this and would be able to reccomend a supplement routine?
Hi Ross
I don’t feel you need a doctor to help with this. Just try the nutrients (zinc, vitamin B6 and evening primrose oil) and see if you feel less shy and anxious. You can read more on the pyroluria questionnaire blog or in the pyroluria chapter in my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution”
Trudy
Hello Trudy
I have pyroluria.
Does the evening primrose oil effect my omega 3 oil supplements?
I heard you should not take B^ and zinc in the same dosage. How do you recommend to take it?
Hi Jonas
Evening primrose oil is an omega-6 and is often needed for pyrolurics. You may need both omega-6 and omega-3s but in general pyrolurics tend to need less omega-3s. Doing a fatty acid test is the best way to know your levels and needs.
I think you’re saying B6 and zinc. I am not aware of any issues taking these at the same time.
Trudy
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23
I learned about pyroluria in “The Diet Cure” by Julia Ross. It fits me to a tee; I am so tired of being the way I am – very project oriented, reclusive, and lonely. It’s interesting to me how alcoholism runs in my family, and how much I am like my mother. Doing things for every down-and-out person she knows, and close to no one.. I hate it!
Thank you for sharing your research and insights.
Hi Anita
Thanks for sharing. Did you do the pyroluria questionnaire https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/pyroluria-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/ and see the nutrient protocol for this? I do hope that by addressing this you see changes for the positive.
Trudy
Pyroluria ans
#1 been extremely shy ever since I can remember. 2 depression recently.
3.
5.
6. White spots
12noise
14
15 is borderline
16 always
17 always have a cold
18 bad pm
19 allergies
20 and 21 no idea true or false
22 look alike aunts and sister
24
25 so true
26 so true
27 very true
29
30 stretch marks
32
34 hair thinning
36
41 leaning towards alcohol
Introvert ans
# 1 2 3 4 7 9 10 11 13 14 16 19 21 22-artist 23
I plan to start the magnesium zinc and primrose supplaments immediately
Where will i find the Amino Acids Mood Questionnaire
or should I just start a pill of amini acids ?
Hi Suparna
Here is the amino acid questionnaire https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-mood-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/ (tip: you can use the search box on the blog to look for posts on any topics). I suggest referring to the precautions before starting https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acid-precautions/
Trudy
Suparna
Thanks so much for sharing – I hope this was enlightening for you!
Trudy
I have identified symptoms in myself in common with both pyroluria and CFS/FMS, low zinc and B vitamins, and low magnesium. Recently, through extensive research and self-experimentation and testing I have found a probable cause/link with MTHFR and related methylation polymorphisms, and heavy metal toxicity. Treatment includes supplementation with zinc, magnesium, and methyl-B’s as opposed the the unmethylated ones as they can actually be harmful to those of us with these issues .Avoidance of enriched foods and multi-vitamins that have added un-methylated B’s and chelation of heavy metals. Over 50% of the population has some sort of methylation issue with resultant variable disorders including pyroluria, ADHD, autism, Alzheimer’s, CFS to name a few. All of have a been exposed to heavy metals and carry a toxic load levels which vary in each person, but those with methylation issues have highly toxic loads. Check out MTHFR.net, Dr. Amy Yasko of Australia and Dr. Rich van K on this subject. These resources have been a God-send to me!
Lin
Thanks for sharing your insights and these valuable resources. I am familiar with Dr Amy Yasko’s work and look forward to checking out Dr. Rich van K’s work.
Many people with pyroluria do have the MTHFR mutation/polymorphism.
Trudy
Hi,
This is great info. I answered yes to most of the questions on
the pyroluria questionnaire. I’m curious about dream recall
and vitamin b6. Instead I of having poor dream recall, I always
seem to have bizarre and vivid dreams. I was also wondering
if zinc and b6 supplementation would interact with medication.
I take a birth control pill, 20mg of citalopram and .25mg of
clonazepam a day. I am very excited about the info on this blog. I have been trying to find a website like this for many years.
I have had generalized and social anxiety for 16 years and
was shy as a child. Thank-you so much for this blog.
Juanita
Hi Juanita
Thanks for sharing! Low vitamin B6 can result in no dreams or vivid/bizarre dreams or nightmares. There is no direct interaction of these nutrients with these meds. The BCP actually leads to nutrient depletions of vitamin B6 and other B vitamins.
Many people on antidepressants and antianxiety medications, find and address the root cause of their anxiety and social anxiety and are able to quit their meds. But be aware that quitting these meds can have their own set of problems. Here is one blog on benzos https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxiety-summit-benzodiazepines-risks-vs-benefits/
Please keep us posted on how you do
Trudy
I identify with all EXCEPT 8,11,22,33 seemed like too much to list all of the ones I did identify with 🙂
Meant 23 not 33 🙂
19 of the most common and 4 of the less common in the Pyroluria Questionnaire.
The lack of memory, psoriasis, almost no eyebrows, by far the palest in my family, my mother and I look ridiculously alike (I have no sisters), Super sized reaction to medications and many more of these are me.
Very interesting to see all of this in one place. I will certainly be reading everything you have to say on this subject. 🙂
Jaime
Thanks for sharing your results – I’m so pleased this has been interesting to you! Do enjoy the other blogs on my site related to this – just search for ‘pyroluria’ and you’ll find many. And stay tuned as I write more in the future. Here is my most recent one https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/pyroluria-mauve-pyrrole-malvaria-kryptopyrroles-social-anxiety/
Do come back and let us know how you’re doing
Trudy
thanks for sharing Jaime
Hi Trudy,
Do you have to go to a special lab to get the pyroluria urine test? I went to Enzo labs, and they don’t perform the test. I checked Quest’s website and don’t see the test there either. I live in a populated area, 5 mins from a major teaching hospital and becoming a little worried that these popular labs don’t have the pyroluriaurinalysis. I’m also heterozygous 677 for MTHFR and have tested negative for lyme disease. Should I also get a script for copper since it may compete with zinc or B6 supplementation?
Thanks, Maria
Hi Maria
I don’t do testing for pyroluria since the questionnaire and response to supplements is a good way to approach this. Also, many people get false negatives when they do test.
I do find that many pyrolurics have the MTHFR mutation. Lyme is interesting as there does seem to be a Lyme-pyroluria connection. As I’m sure you’re aware, Lyme is notoriously difficult to test for and can also yield false negatives.
I’m not sure what you mean by “script for copper”? if you mean test copper then yes you could test this and ceruloplasmin too
Trudy
I’m fascinated by all of this. I relate to many of the questions 1, 3, 4, 5, 9 and then I stopped counting as too many. Strangely I’ve learnt to cope with it by ‘acting’ a part and have been successful professionally but underneath it all I’m still an introvert. I’ve been taking Vit B6 and Zinc and while I’ve increased the zinc I’m a bit wary of increasing the B6 because of contraindications I read on websites about the side effects of too much B6. Please can you clarify this for me. You relate it to dreams. I love your website and I’ve recommended it to my daughter who is a homeopath. Thanks
Hi Mdhobsomah
Many people with pyroluria and those who consider themselves introverts do cope and deal with it and cover it up and should not have to.
How much vitamin B6 and zinc are you taking and are you noticing any changes in the introversion/social anxiety? are you remembering your dreams and are they pleasant (this is a clue your B6 levels are sufficient)? I have my clients start with 100mg vitamin B6 and increase to 500mg and then switch to P5P or a combo. Too much can cause peripheral neuropathy which reverses when the vitamin B6 is discontinued.
Don’t forget the evening primrose oil helps with the zinc absorption + being on a copper-free multi is key.
Pleased to hear you’re fascinated by this! It’s so powerful that we can change how we feel by simply taking a few key needed nutrients! thanks for sharing with your daughter
Trudy
Hi Trudy
Thanks for your reply. I’m on 100mg B6 and 300mg of zinc plus 1300 mg of evening primrose. I haven’t added anything else yet. I’ve had a lot of dreams lately as I’ve had a busy work period and I’m taking a holiday but haven’t shaken work pressures off yet. I will increase the B6 by another 100mg and give it a week or so to check.
My teenage grandson has severe panic attacks (PTSD) and we’ve started him on B6 and Zinc. He has had bad nightmares but they seem to have lessened although he tosses and turns. Any guidance on this would be helpful. He sees a trauma psychotherapist (CBT and EMDR).
Regards
Mgt
Hi Mdhobsomah
I hope you mean 30 and not 300mg zinc? If you are having a lot of dreams (every night) and they are pleasant your current B6 may be sufficient.
I’m sorry to hear about your grandson but I’m pleased to hear his nightmares have lessened. Other biochemical factors to consider with severe panic attacks are low serotonin (and using tryptophan or 5-HTP), low GABA (and using GABA) and removal of gluten/sugar/caffeine, plus having him eat to control blood sugar (protein at breakfast, preferably animal protein) and each meal + healthy snacks. Looking at gut health may be needed too – the microbiome brain connection is big
Trudy
Trudy, I love this article. I can relate to many of these items! How do you recommend using the Primrose oil?
Tandy
So glad you enjoyed this! Evening primrose oil helps with zinc absorption and I have my clients start with 1300mg a day (together with 30mg zinc/no copper, and 100mg vitamin B6).
Trudy
Wow, I can relate to nearly every question here, and on the pyluroria questionaire, most of these I have had since a child as well. Its bizare that looking like your sister or having an all girl family can by factors. I get mistaken as twins with my younger sister all the time. She also has many of these problems. I am only 25, so I wonder if there are any different routes to go. I recently watched your podcast with Diane Sanfilippo and it was a total eye opener for me. I went and purchased Zinc, B6, P5P, evening primrose, and Gaba. I have felt really great the days I have taken only zinc in the morning and gaba/magnessium at night. The day I took everything I had a high amount of anxiety. Tho its hard to tell if the supplements caused it or not. My question is what you can sugggest for me to start with and what time should I be taking these supplements. I dont have health insurance at the moment so I cant afford to go to testing. Its funny cuz im actually quite outgoing and I really try to push myself through the anxiety and just get over my fears, tho at the end of the day i feel so exhuasted and worn down from it all. I always think that If I didnt have to live with anxiety everyday my life would be absolutely extrodinary. Im hoping you can help! And thanks for all that you do and share <3
Mackenze – It’s a matter of finding out what works for you. It’s possible you don’t need all the supplements. I have my clients keep a food-supplement-mood journal to try and find connections
Also i forgot to attach my numbers: 1, 3, 4, 6, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14, 17, 18, 21, 23
Very interesting information here. I will be reading more if your blog and your book. I am a counselor (well, currently a stay at home parent, but my education is in counseling) and I find your information about mental health issue very interesting. I feel very strongly that there is a nutritional component to most if not all mental illness. It is very frustrating that I could lose my license for dispensing nutritional advice to a client. I find that a connection between anxiety ( particularly social anxiety) and pyroluria is plausible, but I feel that a connection between introversion and pyroluria is less likely. I think that some people confuse introversion and social anxiety.
I identified with all but 7, 11, and 12 of the 23 introvert signs. On your pyroluria questionnaire, I felt #s 16, 19, 26, 31, 39 applied to me. I thought #12 kind of did, I don’t like loud noise, but it is not the end of the world, I have worked in an automotive repair shop around lots of noise and while I would prefer quiet, noise is fine when it is necessary.
Hi Bertie
I appreciate your feedback on the “nutritional component to most if not all mental illness” and your thoughts that “a connection between introversion and pyroluria is less likely”
Many counselers work with a nutrition professional and many go on to do their nutrition certification and/or masters program
Gosh…all except 12, 22. I have tested got pyroluria. Also have adrenal fatigue and fibromyalgia. Despite supplements, don’t seem to be making great progress but I’ll continue to try!
Sonya
Thanks for sharing. Have you looked at this for other possible causes to consider? https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxiety-summit-pyroluria-amino-acids-acids-troubleshooting/
Hello Trudy,
I am a 23 year old man who has been struggling with on going anxiety problems, that has been getting worse over the years. Especially social anxiety problems are getting much worse.
I have been to my family doctor a lot of times and although he really wants to help me, he is not able to find any problems by doing all sorts of blood work. It’s only been a week since i have been looking into pyroluria and I can relate to a lot of the symptoms but not all. I do have an extreme inner tension a lot of times, especially when I am in a big group of people that I don’t know. Funny thing is that I do like to be around people and after a few drinks feel very relaxed which in turn leads to drinking sometimes just to feel relaxed. I have a fear of public speaking that is so much worse than let’s say 7 years ago. When I am hangover the next day my symptoms tend to get much worse (a very significant fact for me). I have read on some websites that this is the case with pyroluria, what is your opinion? I score 19 points on your questionnaire.
Now I am about to order a urine test and a zinc test as well. I will receive the zinc test before I will receive the urine test. My question is if just by flushing/rinsing the mouth with the zinc solution WITHOUT swallowing, can this affect the test result of the urine test (because of intake through the salivary glands)?
Thanks for you reply.
Thijs
I’m not sure what zinc solution you’re referring to – if it’s the zinc challenge it should be fine as it has very little zinc. If it’s liquid zinc with 30mg it may affect things. Keep in mind that there is no accurate zinc test and the pyroluria urine test can give false negatives. I rely on the questionnaire and response to supps
Hey Trudy –
Interesting.
I “have” all of the traits except #17 – and I’m fine, thanks. I actually do take B vitamins, and while it may help me feel more energetic, I sure hope it doesn’t change my basic personality. Label me a “Very Happy Introvert who enjoys home, family and Friends, society in small doses, enjoys quiet productive alone time, and doesn’t want any of that to change! 🙂
Caral
This is wonderful to hear – I’m very happy for you!
My goal is to help unhappy introverts who have bad anxiety and want change 🙂
Hi Trudy!
I relate strongly to every single quality listed except #22.
I also score very highly on the pyroluria questionnaire – 38!
I do very well from taking zinc (50 to 100mg per day) and 200mg of B6 as well as primrose oil. I feel so much better. I am still not able to get rid of my quite flecks on my fingernails however … almost every nail is effected.
Thank you for all you do for us pyrolurics!
Holly
Holly
Thanks for sharing your scores. I’m so glad you feel so much better. If your nails have white flecks you may still have low zinc. Have you used the zinc challenge to test and is you alk phos above 50?
With the correct protocol introvert and pyroluria symptoms should go down dramatically so I assume your scores are pre-supplementation? If not, look into low zinc still being a factor
Hi Trudy,
Thanks for your response! Yes, my scores were from before beginning the pyroluria supplements. I feel so much better now after being on them, much less introverted in the sense of less of the extreme social phobia and anxiety. Previously, the idea of social mingling at an event would cause me to break out into a full sweat and tachycardia, and would require multiple days of reclusion after such event in order to recover physically and emotionally.
I will check my alk phos and do the zinc challenge test to determine if I could still have low zinc to cause the white flecks. I have been taking zinc picolinate and will be starting optizinc now per your recommendation. I have also started taking the evening primrose oil with the zinc as you’ve suggested so hopefully that will help with absorption.
Gratefully!
Holly
Holly
What wonderful results! thanks for sharing and giving others hope! And yes the optizinc does seems to be very well absorbed and EPO does help with absorption. Be sure to come back and let us know how you’re doing
Hi, Trudy. What a great site and series of articles. Here’s my list comparison:
From the Huffington Post article:
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 20, 21, 22, 23 Total of 17
From the pyroluria questionnaire
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 18, 19, 20, 22, 24, 25, 26, 29! Total of 21
I was a raw vegan for ten years and did great on that until I went through a long stressful event and then began peri-menopause. My hair started falling out, I started gaining weight (startling with my rabbit diet!), my energy level began decreasing, and I found myself wanting the workshops at my retreat center to not fill up so I could cancel them! My hair analysis revealed extremely fatigued adrenals and hidden copper toxicity, but my naturopath said that people she’d seen in the past with those extreme readings had been confined to their beds! So she suggested I not change my diet; just add adrenal-supporting supplements. These did help, but over a very long period of time. Eventually, I intuitively decided to add eggs to my diet and also to cook some of my food in order to increase my vegetable intake. Those steps helped, and taking maca helped as well, especially with the weight gain (though it brought me full-force out of the menopause I thought was complete).
I have made a very peaceful life for myself in the meantime and have gone from only mildly introverted to extremely sensitive to any and all stimulation. I take hours-long naps if I have more than one social interaction in a day. I am fortunate to be able to mitigate my situation because of my profession as a writer; I can’t imagine having to go to a workplace every day and feel so bad for those who feel this way and do have to engage all the time.
I live in a country where supplements are not readily available, and they don’t allow them to be imported, so I’m going to have to focus on diet for the nutrients I require to improve. And I just can’t bear the thought of eating meat myself (though I don’t begrudge others doing so). I really hope there’s help in eggs, moringa, spinach, mushrooms, and beans!
I forgot to include, Trudy, that my initial urge to try the raw, vegan diet was because I had severe rosacea. Although that’s not included with the list of skin disorders, it seems it could be related, at least to copper overload, because of the redness and the weakened blood vessels. It actually improved on the raw diet but didn’t go away until I changed climates and added eggs back in to my diet.
Prudence
Thanks for sharing your scores and what you’ve been going through and how you’ve adapted with your life as a writer. I’d really like to encourage you to keep an open mind about adding more animal protein – Dr Jacka talks about red meat and mental health here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxiety-summit-the-research-food-to-prevent-and-treat-anxiety-and-depression/ and my interview with Lierre Keith was eye-opening https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxiety-anxiety-depression-vegetarian-diet/
Keep in mind that with low zinc levels meat and protein aversion is common so often addressing this makes a big difference in this and the anxiety too of course.
Thanks, Trudy.
I am opening my mind to animal protein little by little. I may never make it to meat itself, but I will admit that consistently having eggs in the morning does seem to be helping. I’ve been reading about adrenal fatigue and the recommendations regarding protein are generally similar. I’m monitoring how my attitude toward animal protein changes as I get higher doses of protein, B6, zinc, and the evening primrose oil. At this point, I am grateful just to have enough energy to make it from dawn to dusk! Things have improved a great deal in that respect since I last wrote, and I think it’s a combination of the protein in the morning, the vitamins and oil you suggested, and some carbs in the evenings (to lower cortisol).
Anyway, point taken, and I will continue to consider the animal protein issue. I appreciate your gentle nudge and references, as I know you have your readers’ best interests at heart!
Prudence
Thanks for the update. I’m really happy for you!
It’s easier to list the items I DON’T relate to.
1st survey:
Don’t relate to 7,8,11 & 13.
2nd survey:
Don’t relate to 4, 15, 23, 33, 35 & 42.
I must be so deficient and have been my whole life. Thanks to you I’m taking B6, zinc and evening primrose. Have for close to 2 months. I’m starting to notice a marked difference especially in sleeping. Have gone from no sleep at all to sleeping but with nightmares. Hope this passes soon. Also I have a lot of stomach trouble with B6 capsules. Had to switch to liquid which is much better but am having a hard time finding it. You are changing my life Trudy!!! Thank you.
Belinda
DFH has a nice liquid P5P – once you get to the right dose the nightmares should be replaced by pleasant dreams
Trudy, Forgot to mention I have no sensation left in my hands and feet. The neurologist calls it Sock and Glove syndrome but has no idea why. In the last 3 years have also lost most of the feeling in my head except for around the eye area. I’ve had no less than 5 extensive EMGs in the last 10 years that yield nothing much at all and no reason for it can be found. I think this has to be pyroluria related after reading your articles. I wonder if I will ever get sensation back in these locations.
Belinda
I’m sorry to hear about the Sock and Glove syndrome. I’m not familiar with it but am glad you have a doctor to work with. If he/she is not integrative I’d encourage finding an integrative neurologist as many factors can contribute to polyneuropathies. One example is low B12 and infections http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9658486
I did a quick search on Sock and Glove syndrome/ polyneuropathies and see that connective tissue issues can play a role and we do see a connection between pyroluria and connective tissue issues.
Please let us know how you’re doing (and apologies for the late comment – somehow I missed it)
Introvert
1-7, 9-10, 12-16, 18-23
Pyoluria
1-3, 5-6 (have not tried 7, so unsure), 8-21, 24-29, 30-42
My son, aged 25, is similar – I have read evening primrose oil is bad for men to take due to it acting like a hormone – if I were to start taking zinc, b6 and evening primrose oil, should he try it as well or just the zinc and b6? He is on no meds – I am on Crestor for genetic predisposition to very high cholesterol and cipralex for panic disorder. My son was diagnosed with Aspergers Syndrome, so not sure if that is relevant or not, so putting it out there …
Marie
I’ll need a link to the article about EPO and men to be able to comment
If in doubt doing fatty acid testing would be a good way to assess if he has low levels of alpha-linoleic oil and then decide what to do. EPO is high in alpha-linoleic oil
Hi there, great theory! I scored yes to every one except 2 and 19!
On the Pyrolles one i was 1,2,3,4,5,6,9,11,12,,13,14,15,,16,17,19,20,24,26,27,28,29,30,31,34,38,39, 40. I’m not surprised as my son has it and I know it runs in my family. So I put myself on a multi b with biotin zinc,mg and manganese recently but found i was tired. My anxiety attacks however did go away. What would u recommend?
Clare
When a client has an adverse after adding a number of nutrients, I have them stop them all and then do one at a time, starting very low
I had no idea so many problems could arise from having low levels of zinc and B6.I am learning so much here and I am glad I found this site. Thank you for all the helpful information.
Hi Trudy!
I have been extremely anxious with constant rumination that seems to be getting worse. Your pyroluria list really speaks to me-I think I answered yes to 26 questions. I actually have a sister diagnosed with it and yes growing up my 3 sisters and I were definitely look-alikes. Here’s the issue I can’t seem to resolve: some background first: I have MS, though with a grain free lower dairy diet and LDN I have not had any major setbacks. I do get migraines on a somewhat regular basis. I am homozygous for C677 on the mthfr panel. The issue I have is that I can’t seem to handle the b6 (I actually took p5p but a couple years ago tried it with b6). Yesterday, when I took the p5p (25mg) I did get an almost instant feeling of calm but after about an hour or so it went away and I spent the whole night with my brain on high gear, sweating on and off and it lasted well into the morning. I’m scared to try it again. This is the same thing that happened to me several years ago. I also get this reaction if I ever happen to get aspartame in my diet. Almost like fireworks going off in my head all night. I am desperate to get rid of this constant anxiety and ruminations. I really want to feel calm and happy in place. Any thoughts on where to start? I have heard about CBS mutations and the problem with b6. My sister has never had a problem with b6. Have you ever had anyone have such an adverse reaction that started slow and titrated up successfully?
Sara
I’ve yet to have someone with this issue. Some thoughts I’d consider if we were working together – look at the brand and fillers, take much less, take it in the morning, don’t take it at all?
Trudy,
Thanks for the reply. I think I’m going to try to slowly work my way up (seeking health p5p). I had trouble when I first started taking b12 also (though nothing as intense) and had to break them into tiny pieces for awhile. I can’t handle cleaning fluids or perfume so maybe it’s a hypersensitivity. would I still keep the zinc amount the same if I’m taking tiny doses of b6?
Sara
The doses of zinc and B6 are independent of each other
Hi Trudy
I did both the introvert and the pyralauria questionnaires and answered yes to 90% of all questions. I have actually been diagnosed with pyralauria but haven’t commenced the protocol yet.
I have extreme social phobia, anxiety and never ending inner tension. I also have spasmodic torticollis which is a dystonia in my neck which totally rules my life and feeds my social phobia and anxiety. To put it mildly I am a totally exhausted wreck.
I would love to have a consultation with you but live in Australia. Is this possible? One of my concerns about the protocol is that my research indicates that zinc, B6 and EPO all increase risk of thinning my blood and it is already too thin.
I would appreciate your advice and the offer of a consultation. I am 59 and at my wits end.
Bevie
I’m sorry to hear about this. The pyroluria protocol is very effective for all that mention, including the dystonia (read more on that here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/pyroluria-focal-musicians-dystonia/)
I’m not aware of research on zinc, B6 and EPO increasing the risk of thinning the blood and would love to know more. Please share links if you have them.
I do work long distance but have a waiting list right now – you can sign up here https://www.everywomanover29.com/services.html. Where are you located in Australia? I know of a number of practitioners familiar with pyroluria
Hi Trudy
I live in New South Wales so anyone you could recommend who operates on the east coast of NSW would be greatly appreciated.
Bev
I’m afraid I don’t but I hope to have a directory of practitioners later this year once I’ve launched the Anxiety Nutrition Institute training classes http://www.anxietynutritioninstitute.com/
In the meantime I encourage you to search this blog which has a wealth of information on pyroluria. It’s also been the topic of a number of interviews on the Anxiety Summits https://www.everywomanover29.com/storemenu.html
Would a virtual group program be of interest? to walk you through the questionnaire, supplements and what to look out for? plus trouble-shooting when it’s not working at expected? anything else you’d be looking for?
Hi dear Trudy,
On my Pyroluria test I scored – 1,2,3(hard to tell), 4,5,6(just a few little ones), 7(never did that),12,13,14,15(no idea),16,20(no idea),21(no idea), 24,25,26,27,29,32,33,34,36,39 = 19 if I exclude the ones I am not sure about.
On the introversion test I scored – 1,2,3,4,6,7,10,13,14,16,17,20,21,23 = 14
As can be seen from both of the tests I have pretty intense social anxiety and general anxiety at all and the worse is they are accompanied almost always with nausea. It is like horrible cycle when I am ok I am afraid of the nausea which brings me anxiety which brings more nausea and so on and so on. I can not say which is the first the chicken or the egg here anxiety and social anxiety or nausea. Sometimes in certain situations I have nausea sometimes I have nothing. It is so hard to live like that. I think these are my main problems and I have them since I was a kid (I definitely always felt uncomfortable in social situations), except the nausea which I got one day after I overate and vomited. Since that day the nausea is always with me. I even get it when I am excited about something. I have many other symptoms of course like brain fog especially when under stressful situation, maybe depression cause it is not so debilitating but actually can not make the difference what it is to live without anxiety and social anxiety so it may be worse than I think. Often I feel fatigued and with apathy, low emotional energy, sometimes extreme inner tension. All these symptoms aggravate so much when there is stressful event ahead of me that I barely exist sometimes. One such event in my life was when I had to graduate from university and I had a defense of my thesis, I was unable to eat and to function actually for days before the defense. I was like a total wreck, somehow I made it through and after that for months I was feeling so low, with such an extreme inner tension that I was feeling like a bomb that was unable to explode. Physically actually I am quite well or I just think so, I just have eczema that is periodically showing on my right hand, and is with me since I was a kid but back then it was down on my legs. Also I think I have bad stomach, very emotional for sure, I can not eat or digest nothing under stress, I am skinny and so hard to gain even a pound and also prematurely gray hair, it started when I was 25 and it is a lot now at 32. I search for answers so desperately in internet since 4 or 5 years, I found your site and the pyroluria thing like 2 weeks ago. I hope so much that there is something behind my tough condition and it is not just how I am made of. I am 32 and I hope so much I can live as a normal happy person the rest of my life and not feeling like I have to push through life with so many fears. Unfortunately I can not make the puzzle with all these things I read in internet like candida, adrenal issues, over-under methylation, pyroluria. I am really confused. I never considered deficiency in b6 and zinc, and can you tell me whether the white spots on fingernails are the only sign of zinc deficiency. Since I was a kid I can’t remember that I ever had white spots, at least not so much to make impression. Right now I have just two little ones on my right hand. Is it possible to be quite zinc deficient without white spots? I never took any psychotropic medications even when I was really bad. I am afraid of them and also I am sure this is not the solution. In the past the supplements I can remember that I took were omega 3 oil, since the last year I tried many herbs like rhodiola rosea, ashwagandha, l-theanine, gotu kola and any of these didn’t make huge difference, especially in stressful situations in my life. I was taking also b12 in the past, b5 I don’t know why, I take b12 right now also. I think I never took b6 and zinc, I am actually a little afraid to take many supplements without being an expert in order not to make things even worse. From what I’ve read in internet the last week in your site and some others also I start to suspect pyroluria and also methylation a lot and though I am not enthusiastic to find I have a genetic conditions that presumes to take supplements for life but at the same time I would be so happy to find there is something that causes all my symptoms. Sorry for the long post but I wanted to explain better my condition. I would love to hear your opinion and if I can get some help from you.
Thank you so much in avdance.
Stan
I’m sorry to hear how long this has been going on but if we were working together I would have you start the pyroluria protocol. Just start there and consider next steps (if any) after that (GABA or tryptophan may help too). Just so you know the nausea is related to low vitamin B6.
Thank you very much for your prompt reply, how can we work together actually? And what is the pyroluria protocol, vitamin b6, zinc and EPO I guess? Also can you tell me if I can be zinc deficient if I have no white spots on my fingernails or in the worst cases 1 or two small ones? I am a little worried because I know zinc is directly related with copper, but I have a lot of grey hair at 32 and as far as I know this is a symptom of low copper. So if I have low levels of zinc I should have high levels of copper probably, or maybe it is unavailable? It is really very confusing to me.
Greetings
Trudy, I have been taking the zinc and b6 now for 3 weeks, and Iam extremely anxious and chronically fatigued. I don’t feel better at all. I scored 28 on the pyloria test and thought taking these supplements would help, but I actually feel worse. Any suggestions as to what the problem could be?
Thanks , Michele
Michele
I’m very sorry you feel worse but please don’t ever stick with a protocol that is making you feel worse. I have my clients stop what they are doing as soon as they feel bad.
I really can’t help you via the blog but suspect copper dumping; or possibly too high amounts of zinc or vitamin B6; or the form/brand; or a reaction to either the zinc or the vitamin B6 (assuming these are the only changes you made).
This blog has some information that may be helpful https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/pyroluria-protocol-why-arent-i-getting-results-trouble-shooting-checklist/
But based on your previous comments on other blog posts here I do think it may be related to the benzodiazepine use and the other medications you are taking. Working with someone to help you with the benzo taper may be your best option right now. Have you connected with benzobuddies.org? They do not advocate any supplements while doing a benzo taper as they feel everyone on benzos are too sensitive. I don’t find this to be true for everyone but it may be the case for you.
All but 5, 13, 18, 22. I am pyloric. But not horribly. 10.26. Have been On b6, zinc for almost a year and my numbers didn’t budge for pyroluria. So there’s some suspicion I’m not absorbing.
Merrie Beth
I’m not sure what you mean by “my numbers didn’t budge for pyroluria” – lab test or symptoms? The form and amount of these make a difference (what form and how much are you taking?), evening primrose oil helps zinc absorption (are you taking this? and how much?) and so does stomach acid (are you taking this). No copper is any supps is key (have you checked?). Leaky gut/gluten sensitivity can affect absorption of any nutrients (could these be factors?). You can find more information here
https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/pyroluria-protocol-why-arent-i-getting-results-trouble-shooting-checklist/
1-4; 6-12; 14-20; it’s amazing that the more I look into Pyroluria, the more I want to get tested. I have taken supplements in the past and they make me feel funny, that I end up stop taking them. I recently starting taking zinc 100mg and B6, along with a multivitamin and super b complex and I started to be nauseous and I stopped again. Any suggestions?
Dee
Some B vitamins can cause nausea and so can some forms of zinc or zinc taken when the stomach is not full. When this happens we have to figure out what the problem supplement is so doing one thing at a time helps
I find the quiz annoying.
1. You find small talk incredibly cumbersome.
Depends on the person I’m having small talk with.
2. You go to parties -– but not to meet people. You would rather spend time with people you already know and feel comfortable around.
Depends on my mood.
3. You often feel alone in a crowd.
There are a lot of people I don’t know and after asking other people about this, it’s not just introverts who feel this way, many people who consider themselves extroverts also feel alone in a crowd.
4. Networking/small-talk makes you feel like a phony.
Depends how practiced I am at the topic and how much info I’ve studied in the area.
5. You’ve been called “too intense.”
I know of LOTS of people who get called “too intense” as extroverts as well.
6. You’re easily distracted and overwhelmed in environments with an excess of stimulation.
Depends on my home life, but this one is pretty accurate. Most people have a limit somewhere along the spectrum though.
7. Downtime doesn’t feel unproductive to you.
Is this a quality of an introvert? I don’t think this is exclusive.
8. Giving a talk in front of 500 people is less stressful than having to mingle with those people afterwards.
Depends on my energy levels and how well I feel I did in presenting material.
9. When you get on the subway, you sit at the end of the bench -– not in the middle.
What does this have to do with introversion? I don’t ride subway, I drive a lot. It’sfaster.
10. You start to shut down after you’ve been active for too long.It’s likely because you’re trying to conserve energy.
This is true for ANY human being.
11. You’re in a relationship with an extrovert.
No. And how is this relevant?
12. You’d rather be an expert at one thing than try to do everything.
I’m a Jack of all trades, but how does that say anything about my introversion? If anything, I spend a lot of time on my own doing lots of different things.
13. You actively avoid any shows that might involve audience participation.
No, but I don’t like em at all.
14. You screen all your calls — even from friends.
Screen my calls? What? I don’t understand what that actually means.
15. You notice details that others don’t.
I pride myself on that. But I don’t know if that means its connected to being an introvert.
16. You have a constantly running inner monologue.
Once again, I don’t think this is exclusive to being introverted.
17. You have low blood pressure.
What!? I’m ticked at these questions. How is this related to introversion? That’s a health thing, totally unrelated.
18. You’ve been called an “old soul” -– since your 20s.
So? I don’t see how that’s connected. AGAIN, others that I know who are considered extroverts have also been called that.
19. You don’t feel “high” from your surroundings.
What does that mean? I love interacting with my environment. I DO feel high when I hike, when I jam with people playing music, when I try something new, when I achieve something – I don’t know if this is a yes or no.
20. You look at the big picture.
Once AGAIN, so what? How many extroverts do this? Lots!
21. You’ve been told to “come out of your shell.”
Yeah, other people notice when I’m not around. It could be connected.
22. You’re a writer.
WTF. This doesn’t automatically connect to introversion. These questions are just pulled out of a hat, not scientific.
23. You alternate between phases of work and solitude, and periods of social activity.
Isn’t this true of most people?
I’d like a scientific version of this quiz. As is, anyone who thinks they are introverted could look at the questions, identify with them and think they are way more introverted than they thought.
Thanks for the commentary Lizzie – I wonder how many others feel the same way?
I’m curious, do you feel you are an introvert? and have you done the pyroluria quiz too?
Hi Trudy,
Just over a week ago I took your pyroluria questionnaire and scored 21 out of 42. I have in the past taken a Myers-Briggs test which showed me to be an INFJ personality so I haven’t done your introvert test but have taken it as a given that I am one – though bafflingly, most people don’t believe me when I say that as I seem to project a sunny extroverted exterior, quite at odds with what is going on in my head (??).
I have spent my whole life ‘shy on the inside’, often living with life-affecting inner tension, low energy, and including periods of significant depression, anxiety and agoraphobia throughout my adult life. Not nice, and no-one seems able to make these symptoms go away, myself included. During stress-free periods of my life, the anxiety and introversion often recede but then they come back to bite me whenever life gets tough or I feel under pressure in some way. I am currently 55 years old and in the full throws of menopause, and for the past five years have felt mostly ill – anxious, often depressed, and with massive energy dips and agoraphobia that waxes and wanes.
My father is 87 and has suffered significant anxiety most of his life, and my brother has anger issues. So when I read about pyroluria possibly being genetic, my attention was caught. Added to this, I actually have a very good life with a lovely happy family and very little to be anxious about at the moment so my current illness never makes sense to me (other than menopause being a factor). I have always instinctively sensed that the mood issues were ‘physical’ rather than ‘psychological’ but I get nowhere with the medical profession who don’t have any answers. For the record, I also have IBS and lactose intolerance –recent additions to the mix, and I’m sure linked to the anxiety, though of course I can’t prove that.
So a week ago I began taking 100mg of Vitamin B6 and 30mg of zinc per day as you suggest (along with 2000mg starflower oil which I have been taking for some months to ease the sore breasts associated with menopause), and my mood has lifted and my anxiety has abated slightly though not completely – both are less intense though my mood can lower in the run up to mealtimes and my anxiety can be quite high on waking. I’m currently recovering from a bad dose of flu and have been taking it easy at home so am not sure whether that’s contributing to the overall improvement too.
So Trudy, how would you suggest I proceed now please, and what could I reasonably expect in the coming weeks? Is it worth trying to get a pyrolauria test done (I live in the UK) or to ask my doctor to test for anything else? I’m so grateful to you for the work you have done on this subject so far and have everything crossed that this might at last be a solution for me.
Love and best wishes,
Jenny
Hi Trudy,
As an update, I had to stop taking the vit B6 as the initial improvements soon passed (my lows and anxious patches appear be cyclical) and I developed pins and needles in my arms and legs – not good. These stopped as soon as I stopped the B6. So I guess it’s possible to score high on your pyrolauria questionnaire but not have pyrolauria?
Jenny
I happened to come across a vitamin/mineral deficiency checklist on the web. I looked through it and a pattern was emerging based on all of the symptoms I had checked off – vitamin B6 and Zinc. 100% of the symptoms I have are associated with those deficiencies! So I thought it was weird that both of them together were singled out and I searched the internet for those tow deficiencies combined and found out about this disease..? syndrome..? Once I took the questionnaire I was thinking, oh my God – this IS ME!! The anger, the poor stress tolerance, the frequent infections, poor tanning, etc. I have always felt like I was a “trapped extrovert.” I want and crave to be social but something always (anxiety) shuts me down and I didn’t know why. As I age it becomes worse. I have recently started supplementing with zinc for acne and poor immune system, but now I know I need to add B6. Here’s to hoping I can become the true extrovert I think I am. Nothing wrong with introverts, I just would like to feel good being the real me. Thanks for putting this out there!
Tiffany
Here’s to hoping you can become the true extrovert you think you are! Please come back and let us know how you do when you add the vitamin B6. And remember that evening primrose oil helps zinc absorption
I’m curious how you scored on both the pyroluria and introvert questionnaires now?
Hello, I’ve been reading on your website recently, due to suspecting I have pyroluria. Social anxiety is what drove me to searching for answers. I am 45, have had poor health since 21, and the last four years have finally found some answers. First, adrenal fatigue, then thyroid and hormones, also B12 shots, which is helping the most out of any treatment. Throughout the last 10 years I can see myself becoming more and more socially anxious. I didn’t recognize it until at church I couldn’t keep myself in the room. I’ve become very phobic about going back and reexperiencing the break down. Finally, it clicked that I must have social anxiety.
The pyroluria questionnaire fits me to a “T”. My kids cannot tell if a picture is me or my sister. Also, my mom’s family has a history of extreme anxiety. Her step sister would be checked in to the hospital and tied down so she wouldn’t scratch the hives that would break out from severe anxiety. My uncle would soak the sheets in sweat from severe anxiety. I can never know if it’s pyroluria, but interesting to note. This introvert questionnaire is very much me, except #11, I’m not in a relationship with an extrovert.
What I wanted to share was that I am not normally an introvert, I’ve become one. I’ve always enjoyed my own company, but I can be the life of the party before my health declined. I enjoy working with people usually, except less and less these last ten years. Is this normal? I’m doing the zinc, B6, and evening primrose oil. I have taken many supplements for years. I sure hope that this is my answer. I cannot cope with the anxiety, it is ruining my life. I cannot cope with day to day stress. I hibernate all day to be able to work a few hours in the afternoon. Then I go back to my bedroom. I cannot get myself to do certain things. Sometimes it’s answering the phone, or just odd life tasks. It’s like my body is protecting itself. I am not daunted at all by sharing intimate details with people, which doesn’t sound introverted. I’m very blunt also, probably because I don’t have the energy or focus to craft socially acceptable phrases. Any insight?
Melissa
This sounds a lot like pyroluria so I’d continue with the protocol and see how you do – I’m glad you’re finding answers
Also, does it matter if you take the zinc, primrose oil, and b6 at different times of day? I prefer the b6 in the morning and afternoon, but the zinc at bedtime due to the fact it lowers cortisol.
Melissa
It doesn’t matter as long as sleep isn’t affected. I’m not familiar with the fact that zinc lowers cortisol?
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ps/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1702662
Those both explain that zinc lowers cortisol. Some patients may need and feel better lowering their cortisol, though. I have low cortisol, so I would need to be careful of timing.
Yes! I am finding answers, peeling back the layers. I’ve also done food sensitivities testing. But, my constant diarrhea for 25 years has improved tremendously since the B12 shots. The gas pains are mostly gone, which were painful. I hope the zinc helps take a load off my adrenals.
Do you find it usual with pyroluria for someone to have random things not be accomplish able, like I cannot get myself to decorate or hang pictures in my house, or tune my piano, or address retirement details, no relation to each other?
Thank you!
Thanks for sharing those links – it’s the first I’ve heard or read about this and will be digging deeper.
To answer your other question I’d look at low catecholamines and consider a trial of tyrsoine (https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-mood-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/_ and look at nutrients to address ADD. Both ADHD and ADD are commonly seen with pyroluria.
Trudy, I have read your book and I thought I had pyroluria, my doctor put me on b6 and zinc. I have severe anxiety and have had it for24 years. I wish I could say that the supplements helped, but instead I felt worse. My doctor said that I was over methylated so I don’t understand why the zinc and b6 didn’t work. I’m finding it very hard to do anything except stay in my house, and even then I feel horrible. Any suggestions? My medication doctor just put me on klonopin after the Ativan no longer was helping. It has just made my anxiety worse. My son is getting married next month and I would love to attend his wedding, but the way things are going I don’t think I will be able to go. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you, Michele
Michele
I’m sorry you’re not doing well. It could be too much zinc is causing copper dumping but I suspect that the benzodiazepines are the issue. Here is a blog with some information for you to start reading about them https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/world-benzodiazepine-awareness-day-say-no-benzodiazepines-anxiety/ Feel free to search the blog as I write about this topic a lot!
I don’t know if you’re still interested in comments on this article or not, but here goes. The numbers from this article that I identify with are 1-4, 6-16, 18-21. The numbers from the pyroluria questionnaire that I identify with are 1-6, 8-10, 12-16, 18-20, 24-30, 34-36, 38, and 39. I take a liquid B-complex supplement.
The older I get the more shy and introverted I become. While I do enjoy time alone, I wish that I could be more comfortable in a crowd and more outgoing.
Suzanne
I hope this has been eye-opening for you! When clients score this high in both areas we get them on the pyroluria protocol and they see great results. My book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” (here on Amazon http://amzn.to/2kptFWm) has an entire chapter on pyroluria. There are also many blog posts so feel free to search and read.
Yes, it has! I plan to start it asap. Thank you!
Trudy, I just heard you on the Wellness Mama podcast, and it was eye-opening. My extreme-introvert husband deals with moderate to severe anxiety, and we’re trying to figure out how to help him. (I’m also an introvert, but my very infrequent bouts of anxiety, I believe, were due to to undiagnosed Hashimoto’s. No anxiety for years since I’ve been on Nature-throid, though I’m still an introvert.)
So … what would you recommend for a man who identifies with ALL of the above EXCEPT 8, 11, 17, 18, and 22? I read this post a few years ago and had him start taking B6 & zinc, but he didn’t feel it made any difference and stopped. Now at age 35, his anxiety is becoming increasingly worse. History of depression (and SSRIs, though he’s been off them for years now), has trouble participating in even simple extended family get-togethers, comes from a family of introverts (except one brother), his mother has chronic fatigue syndrome and moderate anxiety as well. With my husband, we recently tried CBD oil, which helped a bit but not enough. Now I have him on something called Calm Thoughts by Source Naturals and Rescue Remedy pastilles if his heart starts racing, but I don’t think it’s helping enough, either.
He’s not on any prescription meds. We eat real food; I follow a gluten-free version of the Trim Healthy Mama eating plan (so, no sugar & blood sugar is stable), and he eats what I make — and often eats gluten, sugar, etc., when he has the chance because he says it “doesn’t affect” him.
If you still read these comments, please give me some direction if you are able and willing, and thank you.
Hi Trudy I can relate to the following numbers to 4 6 7 10 13 14 15 17 18 19 21 23
Yikes! That’s a lot!
Thanks,
Melissa
Melissa
I have much success with the pyroluria protocol
Thank you creating this marvelous post. 🙂
I can already tell you that I’m an introvert. 🙂 and
this from the pyloria questionnaire… 1,2,3,4,9,10,12,13,14,16,18,20,22,25,26,27,29,30-stretch marks, 38,39,41-migraines,42-ADHD-Pi; dyscalculia
I tried zinc and b6 5 or 6 years ago,but they both made me more anxious and aggravated my brain fog and confusion.
I’ve decided to try them again, but this time with the b6 as part of a whole food multivitamin and the zinc in addition to that, but in very small 15 mg(?) mcg(?) doses for a total of 30.
So far I don’t seem to be having the issues I was having…. It’s only been a week, so time will tell I guess.
Robin
Thanks for sharing your scores. Keep us posted on how you do
I’m not having issues with the multivitamin fortunately nor am I having issues with zinc now … it actually makes me feel happier, but not less anxious or foggy unfortunately. I seem to do get more effect with probiotics, herbs and amino acids, like N Acetl l-carnatine, Gingko Biloba, Velvet Bean and such, though I’m still not as well off as I would like.
Thank you for your help
Hi, Trudy.
I’m a 29-year-old female (turning 30 in two days), and I’ve been living with severe anxiety and introversion since my late teens. A psychiatrist I recently starting seeing had me take some blood tests to look for nutritional deficiencies, and my zinc level is so low it’s not even on her chart that shows normal levels and lower-than-normal levels. She gave me your pyroluria questionnaire and that led me to your blog.
Re: the 23 introversion questions, every single one of them applies to me. On the pyroluria questionnaire, I checked off 21 symptoms (3 of those in the “less common” section). Today is my first day taking a zinc supplement. My psychiatrist told me I may notice dramatic changes, including things that I have thus far assumed to be fundamental aspects of my personality – like introversion. I cannot adequately express how I feel about all of this. Thank you so much for the resources you provide.
Laura
The only 2 that don’t apply to me are #8 & #13. Eight stresses me in both ways & 13 I don’t mind as long the crowd isn’t too loud or talking all at once.
Hi!
I scored 30 on the questionnaire. I had a hairmineralanalyzis done, but it didn´t show anything different when it came to my zinc and b6 levels. But could the test had missed it? I am going to try zinc and b6, but is it necessary to take the prim rose oil too? I tried this before and it made me blush very easily, and that already is a big problem for me.
Thanks for an interresting blog :).
Victoria
I use the questionnaire and response to supplements. If someone has an adverse effect to a product we don’t use it or look for something else. Ideal is doing fatty acid testing to see if there is a need
Thanks for your reply. How do i do a fatty acid testing? When i take b vitamins my urine smells really bad and i get symptoms of urinary tract infection. Have you heard of this before? I am so dissapointed about this because except from the urinary tract problems my body really like the b vitamins i have taken. I have tried different b vitamin brands and it s the same effect on my urinary tracts every time.
Wow. On this questionnaire, #1, 3, 4, 6, 7, 9, 10, 13-15, 17, 19, 21, and 23 apply to me (total = 14), and also #2 to a certain extent…I *definitely* prefer to hang out with people I already know, but I tend to avoid parties regardless of how many people I know there. 😛
On the other questionnaire, #1, 2, 4, 9-14, 16, 18, 19, 21, 24-29, 34-36, and 42 all apply to me (total = 23).
River
The pyroluria protocol works in a few weeks
For introversion, 1-7, 12-19, 21. I have moderate social anxiety as well.
For pyroluria, 1-4, 9-10, 12-14, 16, 18, 21, 22, 24-29, 30-31, 33-36, 39, 42 (? low histamine).
I also have joint hypermobility.
I work in conventional medicine, and I am not so convinced about pyroluria. However, it sounds intriguing.
Anon
Thanks for sharing and I applaud your open mind even if you’re not (yet!) convinced. I encourage you to consider the pyroluria protocol and to come back and let us know
Hey Trudy,
First of all thanks a lot for your extensive study on Pyroluria, Introversion and Social Anxiety.
Just came across your article while looking for a cure for my hand tremors which I believe is essential tremors (as per my neurologist). I was taking beta blockers as suggested by him. But I had to increase the dose with every passing week/month. And it started giving negative side effects, so I stopped it in a couple of months.
I am an introvert, socially anxious person since childhood and has this tremors in hands since then. It’s just getting more visible with age. It gets worse when I am nervous, when I get socially anxious and with even a bit of physical activity of hands.
I took the Questionnaires and scored as below:
Pyroluria : 1, 2, 3 (rarely), 6, 9, 14, 17, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 34, 35, 36, 38 (hand tremors), 39
[have not performed the Liquid Zinc Test (7) ]
Introvert: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 16, 18, 19, 21, 22, 23
Do you think that my social anxiety, introversion and hand tremors are somehow related to Pyroluria?
Also, here in India, there are no tests available for Pyroluria? Can it be detected with zinc and Vit B6 deficiency test?
Also, can you please suggest me starting dosage of the 3 supplements and some good brands (if possible) for the same?
I will be more than happy if you could provide your valuable advice on the same.
Thank you so much in advance. 🙂
– Tisa (Age 29)
Thank you so much for your generous and expert advice, Trudy! I am fascinated in the study of pyroluria and have 14 of the 29 symptoms. I am starting your protocol. I have read in several places that more than 50mg of vitamin B6 can cause neuropathy. Have you ever seen this in your patients and if so, does it always go away when the B6 is discontinued?
Virginia
I encourage you to read my book, “The Antianxiety Food Solution” so you are well informed. I use up to 500mg and have not seen issues. I have also blogged about B6 toxicity here but am not convinced it’s due to B6 supplementation yet https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/why-is-vitamin-b6-toxic-for-some-and-why-dont-symptoms-resolve-when-vitamin-b6-is-stopped/
Thank you for your reply, Trudy. You are kind and generous to answer people individually. We all appreciate your expertise and compassion.
I really appreciate your devotion to these mood disorders! I suspect my 17 yr old daughter is currently in need of multiple amino acids to correct imbalances due to leaky gut. By way of background, we discovered she was gluten sensitive in 2012 via Cyrex testing. She has been “sensitive” since infancy, preferring only close family members as an infant, had night terrors, and slowly started showing signs of anxiety, which peaked after a SIBO diagnosis in 2017. In hindsight, perhaps we should have done a gut healing protocol after going GF, but we didn’t know, so here we are.
My question is about B6 blood levels. Is B6 blood testing valid? She was taking Pure Encapsulations B6 Complex (w/200mg per cap) when we took her to a new doctor to get insurance-covered blood tests. The results showed her B6 was elevated, so they recommended we switch to Thorne Basic B (10mg per cap). I’ve heard that B12 testing in the blood isn’t very accurate, but don’t know if that holds true for the other Bs. If you get a chance to reply…. Thank you!
In case you are still compiling data on this topic, here goes: I responate with all the questions except for #s 8 & 12 = Total of 21 out 23. My lab results have shown that I am usually very low in B vitamins, zinc, and essential fatty acids. I’ve often had to also have B12 shots. Have a very bad reaction to any B formula’s that are created from yeast products. Feel a LOT better and can cope much better when I take supplements that handle these deficiencies. Also need to take bio-available folate and selenium to help Hashimoto meds work better.
On your questionnaire: only ones that don’t apply to me are #s 8, 11, 18, 22 and 23. = 37 match out of 42.
Hi Trudy, I found your website very interesting and just ordered your book on Amazon. From my high score on The pyroluria questionnaire with 29 out of 42, I have already started to take high quality supplements
sublingal 600 mg Lidke L Tryptophan a day, + pure encapsulations 30 mg Zinc Picolinate ,1300 mg evening primrose oil, klair labs P5P, life extension complete B complex and being post menopausal 5 mg DHEA alternating with 10 mg Pregnelerone.
I’ve only been taking all these supplements for a few days (the zinc & P5P for 3 weeks but not daily) and have already felt a slight difference in how I feel. I don’t have that tight inner feeling and feel less anxious.
I did order the supplement you suggested to do a zinc tally but that may not be an efficient test since I’ve been already taking zinc.
I will be seeing a new GP January 9, 2020. what blood and other tests would you suggest I ask she take to make a determination?
Pyroluria Questionnaire from Antianxiety Solution
1,2 3,4, 5, 6, 9 11, 12,13 14 16, 18, 21, 22, 24 25, 26, 27, 28 29, 32, 33, 34, 36, 38, 40 41 42
23 questions in Carolyn’s Article
1, 2, 3, 4, 5 6, 7 9, 10 11, 13, 15, 16 18, 19 20 21 23
Any further advice or interpretation of my score would be welcome
best wishes , Lia
Lia
There is a urine test for pyroluria but there are often false negatives. I use the questionnaire and response to supplements.
Hope you’re finding my book helpful and good to hear you’re doing better already!
Hi Trudy,
I’m a male, 25 years old. I’ve been suffering from moderate social anxiety for years. I have been taking only 25mg Zinc Picolinate before bed for 5 days as of now 2 days after taking the supplement, much of my social anxiety disappeared. I can make eye contact much more easily and I don’t get tensed and anxious in crowds and making small talk. I still feel these effects up until now.
Can you see positive changes in as little as 2 days ? Am I just overthinking….
Did you have trouble making eye contact before the supplement protocol ?
For me Zinc seems to be the answer for my problems.
Yasin
Thanks for sharing these wonderful results. Results are commonly seen within the first week for folks with social anxiety symptoms. Most folks do better with both zinc and vitamin B6 and a good multi that is copper free but it’s very individualized.
I have never been asked the question about having trouble making eye contact and have never really thought about it but now I can think of a few memorable situations in my life when I found it very difficult (almost painful) to do so.
This paper, Analysis of Copper and Zinc Plasma Concentration and the Efficacy of Zinc Therapy in Individuals with Asperger’s Syndrome, Pervasive Developmental Disorder Not Otherwise Specified (PDD-NOS) and Autism, writes about zinc/B6 and improved eye contact (and other improvements): “Severity of symptoms decreased in autistic individuals following zinc and B-6 therapy with respect to awareness, receptive language, focus and attention, hyperactivity, tip toeing, eye contact, sound sensitivity, tactile sensitivity and seizures.” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3235993/
Please share more about your eye contact – what it felt like before you added zinc and how it feels now?
I’m also curious if you consider yourself an introvert and how you score on the introvert questionnaire and the pyroluria questionnaire.
Trudy,
Before supplementing with Zinc Picolinate (25mg), I would struggle with eye contact when speaking to most individuals.
What would happen is that the moment I would make eye contact, I would feel an immense pressure to look away. My mouth would make a spontaneous, nervous movement. My rate of breathing would increase, my throat would tighten and my mind felt blank in those moments. I couldn’t undertand why I could not look most people in the eye. However, I was able to make strong eye contact with people I know well and hang around with. However, the rest of my interactions with others was overwhelming and felt awkward.
2 days after supplementing with Zinc Picolinate (25mg) before bed, I noticed in my first encounter at work that day, I did not look away from the person I was speaking to. I felt more calm, more confident and composed. I then noticed this noticeable improvement in eye contact when speaking to other individuals throughout the working day. However, there are a few occasions where I felt nervousness when maintaining eye contact but it was completely manageable and was never severe in any way. Not compareable to the struggles I faced before supplementing Zinc Picolinate (25mg)
Overall, no doubt at all that after supplementation thus far for a week I am more confident, social and less anxious.
Regarding the Pyroluria questionaire, I have checked off 15 symptoms from that list. The symptom that shocked me the most was regarding ones mother having sisters or all female family. My mother has 3 sisters and one brother. The sisters have similar facial appearances.
My case is odd, I wouldn’t say I am completely introverted. I speak my mind, crack jokes there and then, have deep conversations. However, I feel that way and feel MUCH better socially when speaking to 2 or 3 people or people that I know well. The more people there are in a group, the more anxious and “zoned out” I feel. This has definitely improved after Zinc supplementation. I can deal with large gatherings better.
I have a strong feeling that I’m deficient in Vitamin B6. I can’t recall my dreams at all. I do dream without a doubt but cannot narrate my dreams from beginning to finish with full accuracy.
I am strongly considering taking 50- 100mg Vitamin B6 along with the Zinc. Maybe that can give me even better results.
Many thanks for your prompt response Trudy. Your passion and dedication to helping others is commendable.
Hi Trudy,
I live in Northern California and wish you still had openings because I have such an interesting case. I was diagnosed with generalized Myasthenia Gravis in 1993, and sought the help of an highly skilled nutritionist in 1995, although unaware at the time; she was a God send. She recommended a trial run of Vit B6, Tryptophan and Zinc. It was a miracle to me at the moment because I was totally dependent on pharmaceuticals to move my muscles and the combination she recommended allowed me far better movement than I had since my diagnosis. Unfortunately, tryptophan was called off the market and my health took a turn for the worse, requiring the removal of my Thymus Gland and later the onset of SIBO. I never understood why the cocktail she recommended worked so well and had an impact on an autoimmune, neuromuscular condition.
Since then I am in a drug free remission, still with muscle weakness, fatigue, menopause complaints, huge sleeping problems and SIBO. I am miserable at the moment, but stumbling upon your website and the recommendation of the same cocktail I used well over 25 years ago, harken’s back to a very optimistic time in my life that was full of hope. I would sincerely appreciate your comment on this experience that appears to have made sense well before it’s time. I am considering trying the protocol once again, although SIBO and Menopause has further complicated things. I look forward to hearing your comments at your earliest convenience.
Thank you,
Antoinette
Antoinette
I am always in favor of going back to something that has worked well in the past for someone. How amazing that Vitamin B6, Tryptophan and Zinc helped with the Myasthenia Gravis and improved movement. Although different conditions, you may find this blog on essential tremors and dystonia useful https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/essential-tremor-dystonia-anxiety-and-cravings-diet-gaba-tryptophan-zinc-and-vitamin-b6/
Serotonin support is also beneficial for gut health, insomnia and menopausal symptoms. A full functional workup is recommended for all conditions. The research shows these connections with Myasthenia Gravis: Low vitamin D https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4734680/, vitamin B1/choline due to dysfunction of acetylcholine https://neuro.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/jnp.12.4.514 and https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/089198879300600408 (and many other connections)
Hi Trudy,
on your questionnaire I got 25 out of 42, which I think is fairly certain I have pyro.
1,2,3,4,6,9,10,11,12,13,16,19,
20,21,24,26,27,28,29,32,34,36,
39,40,42
Something I’ve noticed is that the condition of my hair changes a lot and quite quickly. When I was having wheat my hair would go grey at the sides and thinner on top. If I improved my diet it would improve over the next couple of weeks.
Do you think this might be a pyroluria symptom. Is it something you’ve seen in your clients?
Thanks,
Ed.
Ed
I have not seen hair color change that quickly.
Sounds like me! Numbers of statements that I resonate with are: 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 19, 22, 23
Vicki
Thanks for sharing – and how many on the pyroluria questionnaire do you resonate with?
Hello/
Since, I was 7 yrs old, I was depressed and would deeply blush for EVERYTHING!!
I was very quiet/ Never really wanted to speak/Hated anyone to look at me//
I already had most of the symptoms u mentioned above/
My life has been a tiring journey/ I have been on PAXHELL for 28 yrs and cannot get off of it/
I no longer want synthetic medication in my body//
How much B vitamins, zinc and primrose may I take to see results/
I am a devote Catholic and I know God is going to heal me/
God Blwss and thank you for being here for all of us//
You are a GODSEND!!!
NormaArlena
Norma
Paxil can be challenging to taper. I have clients get nutritionally stable before considering a taper and addressing pyroluria is one step of the process. You can read more here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/taper-from-antidepressant-tryptophan-amino-acids/ I can’t offer specific feedback via the blog and recommend reading my book for a comprehensive nutritional approach – “The Antianxiety Food Solution”
I resonate with all 23 questions in Carolyn’s article except #11 only because I am single! 🙂
Drew
Thanks for sharing – and how many on the pyroluria questionnaire do you resonate with?
I recently found out that I am borderline autistic and also having low zinc levels as my test results in alkaline phosphatase is quite low (my joints were aching even though I take regular vitamin D) and my vision is poor (sjogren’s syndrome since teenage years) which both conditions are linked to the mineral. Will it be possible that having low zinc can cause autism which its behaviour is like being introvert and not being neural typical?
Pei
Pyroluria is common in ASD/autism and low zinc can be a factor with both
I found this article interesting. Never heard before about that. Apply all questionaries’ answers except 9.12.13.14 and 23. True that all my life have zinc and vitamin B6 deficiency. Just supplementation helping to reduce, but not fully remove white marks on my nails.
On the introvert Questionnaire (23 questions): I identify with: 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 9, 10, 13, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 23.
I sort of identified with 2, 7, 8, 11, 22. The reason I say ‘sort of’ is for example #2, I don’t really go to parties per se, however, if I found myself at one, I would definitely seek out people I already knew.
On the Pyroluria Questionnaire I identify with… Common: 1 (mostly just inner tension), 2 (mostly just nervous exhaustion), 3, 4 (multiple ER trips and several medicines on the list NOT to give me), 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15 (iron deficiency anemia & thalassemia), 16, 17, 18, 19, 21 (severe sleep disorder treated with dopamine agonist), 24, 25, 26, 28, 29. Less Common: 32, 35, 36, 38 (movement disorder), 39, 42 (son autistic, seeing counselor for potentional diagnosis for myself currently).
Carla
Thanks for contributing and sharing. Hoping the pyroluria protocol is helping in both areas
Apologies for the delay in your comment approval and my response. We had a computer glitch where a large number of comments were hidden from view in a spam folder. It mostly affected new folks who were commenting for the first time but it’s hopefully resolved now.
Hey I’m Michael I not know if your site still around here I just saw this late. I not knew taking zinic vitamin b6 eveing oil thing will really take away your aniexty? I notice whenver friends ask me to hang out I back out go next weekend i’m not ready if they ask me to come over to there party. I find a way not to go by saying something else will those two supplments help with me that? If it sounds like aniexty to you I have? That same for me whenever. I go to my grandparents house I am use to be around my sister not wanting to go alone there without her for being alot of people on and off I get quiet on them when am not with my sister.
Michael
The pyroluria supplements do address social anxiety and my clients often start to see improvements in a week or two.
My book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” has an entire chapter on pyroluria. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
There are also many articles on this site – just use the search feature
Wow I can definitely relate to this! I stumbled upon this article after seeing it on Facebook. I started with severe social anxiety at age 9. They put me on ssris that helped for a while, but thankfully I am off of them now.
I score very high on the pyroluria questionnaire and answered yes to most of them (however I had a negative pyroluria urine test). I also deal with severe agoraphobia/social anxiety/monophobia that came out of nowhere (tests show very high copper levels). After 5 minutes of being out I get so exhausted and ready to go home. I tried a b complex by natures sunshine but felt MUCH worse. Have you seen these issues with pyroluria, would you recommend a certain b vitamin versus a b complex? Thank you! 🙂
Hannah
Thanks for sharing and glad to hear you can relate to this. Keep in mind that false negatives for the pyroluria urine tests are common so I use the symptoms and response to supps. The pyroluria protocol is zinc, vitamin B6 and evening primrose oil (and a copper-free multi).
With phobias we look into low serotonin and address this with tryptophan or 5-HTP. Low GABA may also be a factor with anxiety.
The best way to determine if someone may have low GABA/serotonin is to look at the low GABA/serotonin symptoms, rate them on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being worst, do a trial of the respective amino acid and rate the symptoms again right afterwards (in the next 2 to 30 minutes). Here are the symptoms https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-mood-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/
If you are new to the amino acids (and other anxiety nutrition solutions like real whole food, quality animal protein, fermented foods, organic produce, health fats, gluten/sugar/caffeine removal, blood sugar control, gut health, pyroluria etc) my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” is a great place to start. There is an entire chapter on pyroluria with all the dosing information. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
In the introvert questionnaire I scored Yes in 18 out of 23 questions.
# 1 2 3 4 7 8 9 10 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 23 . I have realized that I am an introvert for a very long time and to succeed and move up the ladder in business I learned to act like an extrovert enough to be successful because that’s what jobs, bosses and teams required of me. Not my preferred way of “being” some of the time but I made it work. Happily retired this year.
The other questionnaire I scored Yes on 10 out of 42 questions. # 11 13 16 19 20 22 26 30 34 38. I am educated in nutrition and take a balance of nutritional supplements including the ones you have highlighted. I hope you find these answers helpful for your conclusions.
Shelly
Thanks for contributing to the discussion and sharing – it’s so common that folks learn to act like an extrovert!
on the 26 questions –
2 3 5 6 7 13 15 16 17 19 20 21
on the Pyroluria Questionnaire –
1 2 3 9 14 16 18 19 21 24 26 27 28 29 33 39 42
At times I’ve managed to do more to overcome than at other times – ups and downs entire life. I hate public speaking and avoid at all costs but I stress at trying to deal with a crowd of people, especially strangers, if I am alone and expected to do that. I’ve been held back in many things in life from this.
Alexis
Thanks for sharing. Be sure to check out the pyroluria protocol for solutions
Being an introvert never stopped me from pushing my physical limits. But after reading this, I relate to #6 – overwhelmed in overstimulating environments. My B complex not only fuels my workouts but helps me stay focused in crowded gyms. Balance in all aspects!
For what it’s worth, I would say that the problematic traits you mention (social anxiety, etc.) are NOT introversion. People conflate the two and they can go together, but I think people are very confused about what these mean, and a better understanding would be helpful. Introverts should not feel like they have to become extroverts, but many people could be helped by knowing that anxiety is something they don’t have to live with. Anxiety causes suffering.
It’s undeniable that physical dysfunction (like pyroluria) can cause people both to be anxious, and to withdraw socially, to feel disconnected and to feel little or no enjoyment in company. But that is not introversion. Just having a bad flu can make someone less talkative, more irritable, etc. Being hangry can cause people to be short and bad tempered. It’s not a totally dissimilar mechanism. When you’re not well, physically, your behavior and personality can change for the worse.
Being introverted means that you like being by yourself, or, significantly, that you are energized by spending time by yourself or engaging more in small group settings than in large ones. Often it means that we prefer deeper conversations that can usually only be held in small groups, rather than large ones. We often don’t like competing to talk. I would say anxiety and all of the related qualities you mention are a totally different thing: anxiety.
Introversion is a natural state of being and people can be introverted and be totally healthy, personally, socially and physically. It’s becoming more and more stigmatized in our hyper-connected world to be introverted, which in and of itself could contribute to being anxious, especially for young people.
I have been very introverted all of my life, and I am extremely independent, like to spend most of my time alone, often prefer smaller settings for conversations, prefer deeper friendships, hate competing to talk, get very bored by lots of social conversation, and shudder at the thought of living with another person again – just for starters. But I have never had one ounce of social anxiety either. I used to go out to clubs or bars by myself all the time and always make new friends without even trying. (I’m a little past that going out stage in life now.) I liked going to festivals like Burning Man (often by myself) because I could essentially be by myself amidst the crowds and chaos. I could easily slip away from people I didn’t want to be with (which I did a lot), or I could engage in one-on-one conversations with people I found interesting.
Hello! I have been an anxious introvert basically all my life. I don’t mind the introvert part, don’t like the anxiety part and always wish I could be more uncomfortable around gatherings where I will see people I haven’t been around in a long time. I have been working on my health issues for quite a few years and have seen some improvements but stress always takes me steps backwards. I have been taking 15mg of zinc glycinate, as I read this is more gentle for the thyroid and I’m wondering if maybe it would be ok to take a higher dose like 30mg to see if this would help me, being that I have so many of the symptoms of Pyroluria. Or should I try the zinc you recommended? I’m also thinking of adding some more b6? The amino supplement I take from TrueHope contains b6 as p5p, and I also take organ supplements with natural b vitamins but not sure if they contain b6. Would it be wise to add some b6?
Hope to hear from you and thank you for this information. Very enlightening. Wish I knew this sooner. I’m assuming getting copper levels tested would be a good thing and I will be doing that asap.
Thanks again!
Hi Trudy- i’m trying to get on the notification list for the new GABA Quickstart program, but it says it’s unavailable?
Thank you for letting us know, Laura. I believe we fixed it now. Please try it again: https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/gas-notification-list/
Laura
Please try again https://www.anxietynutritioninstitute.com/gabaquickstart/