Dr. Jonathan Prousky, MSc, ND, editor of the Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine and author of Anxiety: Orthomolecular Diagnosis and Treatment was interviewed by host of the Anxiety Summit, Trudy Scott, Food Mood Expert and Nutritionist, author of The Antianxiety Food Solution.
Tapering off psychiatric drugs so they don’t ruin your life
- The process of reducing or discontinuing psychotropic medications
- Difficulties patients have in overcoming pharmacological dependence
- Reactions when someone discontinues SSRIs and benzodiazapines
- Tapering approach, duration and improving outcomes
- The importance of diet and lifestyle
- Melatonin and niacinamide during benzodiazepine withdrawal
- Using Neurapas Balance, rhodiola and GABA during a taper protocol
- A tapering schedule case report
Here are a few snippets from our interview:
prescribed psychiatric drugs…. They are not like any other medication. These drugs are not disease-modifying agents, so they’re not like taking a drug for diabetes. These drugs are psychoactive.
That’s exactly how they work. They influence, basically, how one thinks, feels and behaves and, of course, physiology and, as a result, their effects are highly, highly unpredictable and what I constantly see in my own practice is how doctors are failing our patients and not really discussing all of what is necessary when prescribing these drugs because these drugs tend to have some significant effects. and I don’t consider any of the effects of these psychoactive drug’s effects and they can be either positive, negative or neutral
I think what’s important for people to realize is there’s no specific clinical manifestation that would be appropriate for all patients that are on SSRI drugs, whether that’s something like Paxil or Prozac or Celexa. It doesn’t matter. There’s no one manifestation that all patients coming off those drugs are going to experience. Essentially, because these drugs have very, I would say, unpredictable psychoactive effects then, when somebody is coming off of them, the effects from tapering are also rather unpredictable. So, people can experience either regression of their symptoms that brought them to a physician in the first place and one of the reasons why they were prescribed the drug in the first place, so patients can certainly regress and start having a return of their previous symptoms. Patients can have incredible sleep issues where they just cannot sleep, and they literally are feeling so concerned and they start worrying about not being able to fall asleep even before they sleep because it becomes such an issue.
Patients can feel very restless and they can get an inner restlessness that sometimes can drive them, literally almost like, as if, they’re going crazy, it’s called agathusia. There’s like this inner restlessness that torments people. Sometimes that can even happen as they taper down. Sometimes people can develop some weird, neurological manifestations whether it’s ticks or just strange or abnormal body movements, which we call dyskinesias. Patients can start having the sweats or feelings of derealization where they don’t feel grounded in reality.
They can have brain zaps where their brain just feels like it’s being zapped or as if someone’s electrocuting them. They can feel their whole body shaking and sort of becoming very jittery or even they can have cold sweats and shiver a lot. Essentially, there’s not a manifestation that you and I couldn’t think of that couldn’t happen to somebody coming off of these drugs because, as I said, they’re so unpredictable.
During the interview we discussed a number of papers written by Dr. Prousky. Here is a link to his publications.
Here is the Harm Reduction Guide to Coming Off Psychiatric Drugs by Will Hall
Dr. Prousky discussed this paper about pharmaGABA: Relaxation and immunity enhancement effects of gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) administration in humans.
GABA could work effectively as a natural relaxant and its effects could be seen within 1 hour of its administration to induce relaxation and diminish anxiety.
I talked more about GABA in my interview: Targeted individual amino acids for eliminating anxiety: practical applications
Dr. Prousky shared a case study of an SSRI and rhodiola taken together leading to tachyarrhythmia: Herbal medicine–sets the heart racing!
We report the case of a young previously healthy woman who had a significant tachyarrhythmia whilst taking a combination of escitalopram and the over the counter herbal medicine Rhodiola. Escitalopram, a SSRI, increases serotonin levels in the brain by selectively inhibiting re-uptake of serotonin. It is metabolised by the cytochrome P450 (CYP) isoenzymes CYP2C19, CYP2D6 and CYP3A4. Rhodiola also increases serotonin levels by inhibiting monoamine oxidase. It is a potent inhibitor of CYP3A4 and P-Glycoprotein. Consequently both agents taken by a patient can augment serotonin levels.
Dr. Prousky discussed the risks of SSRIs during pregnancy and shared this paper: The risks of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor use in infertile women: a review of the impact on fertility, pregnancy, neonatal health and beyond
Antidepressant use during pregnancy is associated with increased risks of miscarriage, birth defects, preterm birth, newborn behavioral syndrome, persistent pulmonary hypertension of the newborn and possible longer term neurobehavioral effects.
Dr. Prousky is the editor of the Journal of Orthomolecular medicine.
The CSOM/Canadian Society for Orthomolecular Medicine holds an annual conference in Toronto and you can learn more here. The 2015 conference will be April 24-26.
If you are not already registered for the Anxiety Summit you can get live access to the speakers of the day here www.theAnxietySummit.com
Thank you so much for this awesome interview, Trudy and Dr. Jonathan. My daughter 30 is in the process of tapering from Zoloft on her own. She has been off for a week, and is struggling some. Thank you for all the suggestions. Trudy, I cannot afford to buy the summit right now, but would love to purchase this interview for my daughter. She has a show tonight and so I know she won’t be able to listen for free. I took lots of notes, but would love for her to be able to listen to this interview. Would you consider selling me this interview alone for a small fee, so she could listen? Is there any way??? Thank you for your consideration. I have again learned so much from your summit.
Hi Joann
I’m so pleased you enjoyed this – your daughter is fortunate to have you looking out for her like this 🙂 please email support@everywomanover29.com and we’ll make a plan
Trudy
Listening to Dr J Prousky, ND. I have this problem — Trying to get off of Lorazepam and Mirtazapine on my own. Both were given to me years ago for sleep. When I try to go off either can’t sleep or wake up in an hour feeling like am going through the roof. I have a natural doctor I can try to get help from but I was wondering if he could look up Dr Prousky’s site to get his info. I have not had help from regular doctors about this issue. (Yes a regular doc did put me on and then later added the Mirtazapine — all for sleep. ) I would come to this doctor if was possible but I’m in Baltimore, MD so I need to work through my natural doctor here. Could I send him to this doctor’s site for information? What do you advise?
Hi Diane
As I said to Kathy, in most instances you are going to need to become educated about this and then educate your doctor. Dr. Prousky has many papers/articles on his site – I would share them with your doctor. Here are some additional resources for you: http://www.benzobuddies.org; http://www.benzo.org.uk; my interview with Dr. Catherine Pittman on season 1 of the anxiety summit https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxiety-summit-benzodiazepines-risks-vs-benefits/ (if you go to this blog you’ll find a link to her powerpoint)
With regard to the sleep issues – it could be made worse by the medication. You’ll need to get to the root cause as to why it’s happening and address that: low serotonin, low GABA, high cortisol, food intolerances, low blood sugar, parasites, EMFs etc
Trudy
I was on antidepressants for yrs off and on since the 90’s. I’m on Lorazepam 1mg 3 x a day since 2008. I’ve asked my doctor about coming off them but not getting any positive help on it. I went through withdrawals due to a previous doctor office went on vacation and didn’t refill my meds. So I really had a rough time and wished I hadn’t let them put me back on it. I had no one like this summit personnel to help me get through and be free of them. I’ve learned a lot listening to all the experts. I never had a hard time coming of SSRI’s but the Lorazepam withdrawals make you feel like you are going to lose your mind. As you stated I wasn’t informed about all the side effects or addictiveness. I have other health problems diabetes type 2 controlled with diet, heart disease, fibromyalgia, arthritis(in chronic pain) and GERD so I’m dealing with a lot. I’m looking for any and all sources of natural health advice to get better. Bless you for all your hard work.
Hi Kathy
I’m sorry to hear you’ve had such a rough time. Many people have a really tough time coming off benzos. In most instances you are going to need to become educated about this and then educate your doctor. Dr. Prousky has many papers/articles on his site. Here are some additional resources for you: http://www.benzobuddies.org; http://www.benzo.org.uk; my interview with Dr. Catherine Pittman on season 1 of the anxiety summit https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxiety-summit-benzodiazepines-risks-vs-benefits/ (if you go to this blog you’ll find a link to her powerpoint)
Trudy
Thank you Trudy just got back to the blog and found your answer. I will research the websites and will do everything in my power to get off the benzo’s. Have a great week.
My 9 year old daughter is struggling after rapidly going off SSRI’s a few weeks ago. Bedtime is the most difficult. I wondered if you would suggest the SRR treatment for children and if so, what would the dosage be? Would melatonin be harmful for a child? Thank you for all your insight.
Hi Clare
I’m sorry to hear your daughter is struggling. I’ll ask Dr. Prousky to come by and comment.
I work mostly with adult women but when I have worked with children I go by weight – so for a child who is 60lbs I’d halve the adult dose of a supplement and sometimes even start lower and build up slowly.
Trudy
This information is so essential for EVERYONE, especially all the MDs guilty of over-prescribing drugs and all the people stuck under the control of these meds. My sister lost her life from the compounding side effects and long term damage of a 15 yr dependence on these psychotropic drugs. Her quality of life diminished slowly every year and I wish I could’ve shared this information with her before it was too late. My blood boils and I’m also “disgusted” with this standard of care. It is my life mission to spread this truth and help others recover from this viscous cycle. Thank you so much for sharing this information.
Hi Danielle
I am so sorry about your sister and appreciate you sharing here. It must be very hard for you. I do commend you for making it your mission to spread this truth and am so with you on this!
Trudy
I’m so sorry for writing to you here, but I cannot seem to figure out how/where to write to you…I have been on these horrible meds for 15 yrs as well…I recently went through absolute torture coming off my antidepressant, but take up to 8mg a day of Xanax. I am @ the very worst point of my life…I can no longer function w/ or w/o it…I do not leave my house & struggle to make it through each day…I am no longer living, only existing & every day is more & more difficult~I do not know where to begin & am desperate.
Kristie
I’m so sorry to hear this. I encourage you to join benzobuddies.org to get support from folks who have been through this too. Just be aware that they don’t advocate supplements during the taper. I have found many people do benefit – my book and this blog has a wealth of information but I’d start with looking to see if you could benefit from GABA and serotonin support.
Also, if you missed it, do check out my webinar on the topic of benzodiazepines.
Thank you for the much needed discussion of tapering off psychotropic drugs. I am currently on Clonazepam but have been trying to get stable enough to taper off. Unfortunately, GABA, phosphorylated serine (seriphos), and Rhodiolla increase my insomnia and anxiety and so does tryptophan and other supplements and herbs. Melatonin has no effect. I will try niacin and niacinamide. I have heard that sensitivity to supplements and herbs can be a problem for those on benzos. I would love to hear a discussion on this issue at a future anxiety summit. Thanks for your wonderful work and informative summit!!! p.s. I was put on benzos to increase the effect of pain medications for surgery, and not for anxiety or insomnia, which I now have.
Hi Carrie
Thanks for sharing and I am sorry to hear you don’t do well on some of these nutrients. And even more sorry to hear you now have anxiety and insomnia.
I also see pixie dust people needing very small amounts of the aminos – like a dab from a 500mg capsule. When I hear that the nutrients you mention increase insomnia and anxiety it makes me think it may be the reverse effect i.e. too much.
But you may be right about being overly sensitive. When I wrote this blog post (https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/nutrients-for-dementia-benzodiazepine-withdrawal) I corresponded with Alison and she suggested I add this caution: I have recently learned that many people in benzo withdrawal do not tolerate supplements so please USE CAUTION and work with your health practitioner.
I do plan to cover benzodiazapines again in the next summit and can include this aspect too.
Trudy
Thanks so much Trudy! I learn so much from your anxiety summits and cannot thank you enough. I read your book, made dietary changes and will keep working on finding a solution. I pass the information on to my integrative doctor, naturopath and acupuncturist and so they are learning too.
This is a reply to Carrie. I hope you are doing better. I think you might have better luck with amino as you go along. I have been struggling with withdrawal from many years of benzodiazepines and antidepressants. I have never been able to tolerate rhodiola. I was helped by 5htp, but it didn’t help me sleep. After I was on 0 benzodiazepines and antidepressants, I was able to take tryptophan and gaba and it helped me sleep a little.it takes time. The anxiety you have now is most likely due to thermos withdrawal. You may also benefit from omega 3 fatty acids and a form of lithium called lithium orotate. I found that as I recovered, some serious mood swings surfaced, as well as irritability and restlessness. The low dose lithium has helped. Look it up online. I recently tried some zinc pollinate, and even that bothered me, so this is very individual. Time is sure to work. Good luck. Madeline
Thanks for sharing Madeline – and offering encouragement.
I prefer tryptophan to 5-HTP unless you know cortisol isn’t high – that may have been why it didn’t help your sleep. I do find lithium orotate to be very helpful for many of my clients. I use it myself. And the same with omega-3s if you are deficient. As you say, it’s all very individual.
I’m not sure what zinc pollinate is – did you mean zinc picolinate?
And this? The anxiety you have now is most likely due to thermos withdrawal. Did you mean meds withdrawal?
Thanks!
Trudy
I have the same problem with ashwaganda, seriphos, melatonin and Relora….they increase my insomnia. Feeling so lost and confused,
Monique
It may be that you need smaller amounts or something else entirely to address the insomnia. It may be that you need to work with a practitioner who can help you figure this out you don’t have to do this alone
Trudy
Thank you so much for this interview. I’ve learned so much and even took notes. My son who is now 18 has been on so many drugs since he was 14 and they have really made him worse. He is now on Librium, Trazadone and Concerta and I really want him to get off the Librium because I don’t think it’s helping. I’m hoping with the notes I took and his new practioner at his college, they can make some changes and help him to wean off the Librium. I just wish I had found this summit sooner so I could have listened to all the interviews as my son has such severe anxiety and depression. I’m hoping I can help him with the information I’m learning here. Dr. Prousky is great, I wish he was my son’s doctor. Thanks again!
Hi Linda – this is wonderful and I’m so glad this is helpful. AS I’ve said above, you’ll need to get educated yourself and take this information to the doctor.
We have some replays coming up so you’ll get to enjoy more interviews. The audios/transcripts are also available to purchase (discounted until the 16th)
Trudy
THANK YOU for including this particular session! Great information — well balanced, informative and recognizes the very individual nature of withdrawal experiences.
As an adolescent I was put on benzodiazepines for a POSSIBLE, but never documented, “seizure”. I took the pills as long as I was at home since my parents were very responsible and thought they were doing the right thing (from age 12 to age 18), but the minute I left for college I quit the medication — cold turkey. It nearly killed me in several ways. Since this was in the late 1960’s no one actually knew WHY I was suddenly having all these horrendous physical and mental symptoms and my life totally fell apart. Luckily I had a close knit family and good friends and after several years I finally started to recover. It was only some decades later that I, and my family, realized exactly what the problem had been. The experience fundamentally changed how I viewed myself as a young adult and has continued to affect my self image for over 45 years.
So, you would think I would have known better, but after heart surgery that resulted in a “stroke-like” incident during the procedure, I began to suffer from “siezure” type migraines (also sometimes known as basalar migraines) as well as persistent PVCs (up to 20,000 PVCs per day) and was again put on a short acting benzodiazepine, which I have taken several times per day for the past 3 years. The medication DID substantially decrease the number of “seizure” migraine episodes I had and at first I was just so grateful to have it, but over time I healed somewhat and had fewer migraines and once I learned about the true insidious nature of benzodiazepines, I decided I wanted to get off. I truly feel that with lifestyle and diet changes I can probably manage the migraines, if not the PVCs.
Given my first experience with benzo withdrawal, I did tons of research and decided that a crossover to a benzo with a longer half-life, and a slow taper would be best for me. You would NOT believe the difficulty I have had in the U.S. trying to find the support necessary to go this route for withdrawal! It has been suggested that “at my age” I should just “stay” on the drugs “for the rest of my life”. I have been told that the crossover tapers are not based on “real science”. I could not find any doctors who were familiar with the crossover tapers or even knew much about benzo dependency and the long term damage that can be done to the GABA receptors and the brain. I could not find doctors who “felt comfortable” prescribing Valium to me — although I have been getting prescriptions for Lorazepam for 3+ years. It was repeatedly suggested to me that all I had to do was “cut out a dose each week for 3 weeks” and, unless I had some real “psychiatric illness” it would all be over and I would be just fine because only those who have “problems” experience symptoms from benzo withdrawal!
At one point I even gave up on the medical establishment and went to a country run addiction clinic, but they would not treat me because I am not considered an “addict” — I am merely “physically dependent” on a doctor prescribed drug, which, since I do not take more than the prescribed dosage or sell my pills on the street, means I am not addicted nor am I considered to be “abusing” the drug.
Despite my determination, I was beginning to feel somewhat abandoned and quite frustrated. I was growing desperate and starting to feel a bit hopeless, however, I am happy to say that after nearly a year of trying, I have managed to locate a physician in my area who actually listened to me and read the Ashton Protocol I e-mailed to him and seems to have agreed to support me with the crossover taper. This outcome is due in part to help from my health insurance company, which provided me with a case manager who has been advising and supporting my efforts — so HUGE Kudos to a company in an industry that often gets (and sometimes deservedly) a bad rap. My insurance company is committed to helping me be healthier — and in turn use less medical services, so everyone wins!
Although I have just begun the taper (less than two weeks ago) and I know I have a long road ahead, I feel incredibly grateful to have found the help I need. What you offered me here today is the reassurance I needed that I really am doing the right thing for myself, that there are others out there who are aware of this serious issue and that whatever emotional support or nutritional augmentation I may need, or however long it takes, it is a journey well worth the effort.
Thanks once again for sharing such a wealth of information and common sense in a format that I can access and afford!
Mo
Thanks for sharing you story and long journey to find answers. This in itself will give other readers hope, so thank you.
I’m so pleased you have found the help you need and wish you a really good taper. I commend you for your persistence and am also very happy that my interview with Dr. Prousky is providing reassurance for you.
Please let us know how you’re doing
Trudy
Dear Trudy, I have responded elsewhere on this blog, but I would like to thank you again for this valuable attention to a real problem. Mo is right. No one seems to want to look at the issue of withdrawal from psychoactive drugs. I have been struggling with this nightmare for over a year. I must report that I am getting better. I am now sleeping over 6 hours every night. I have developed some new symptoms, but I am able to cope. People need to know that this takes time. No one supplement or protocol seems better than sound nutrition.
Madeline
Thanks for saying that – I agree it’s a really big and very real problem! I’m sorry it’s been a nightmare for you and pleased you’re doing better.
I agree, sound nutrition is the foundation. Some people do fine on supplements and are really helped by them, and yet others seems to have problems with certain supplements, and then for some people all supplements are problematic.
I know others reading this will be inspired and feel hopeful after reading your encouraging words so thank you for posting here
Trudy
Hi Tracy,
Thank you for including benzo taper in your summit.
I have been on 1mg of Klonopin for 8 years and unfortunately
I have not come across an antidotal case where someone who’s been on a benzo for over 2yrs has been able to get off successfully. I successfully got through a taper but eventually developed intolerable insomnia where after 5mths clean, I felt I was left with no other choice but to get back on for the sake of a good night sleep. With the help of an integrative doctor, I used all the supplements mentioned by Dr. Prousky and several more. Dr. Prousky did say in his interview that the neuroplasty of the brain changes once you’ve been on a benzo for many years. If that’s the case, how can I have hope that I wiill be able to get off permanently? I think hearing the story of a patient you or Dr Prousky have worked with who successfully weaned off after many many years of use, would be encouraging and inspiring for those of us on a benzo for over 2 years.
Monique
I do know of a number of people who were on benzos for over 2 years and are now no longer taking them. Not all are 100% symptom-free so yes, it is a challenging area
Have you connected with folks on http://www.benzobuddies.org – they could be a good resource for you
I’ll have Dr. Prousky come and comment on this for you as well.
Trudy
*My apologies Trudy. I misspelled your name.
Thank you Trudy for The anxiety Summit!
I listened to the 1st one in June and was very much looking forward to this one! I even referred someone to listen to this summit. She really enjoyed your discussion on the aminos in helping with anxiety and depression.
This discussion was of great interest to me. It will be 4 years ago this coming March that I came off of clonazapam after a 2 1/2 month taper. I was on the clonazapam for about 1 1/2 years and was put on that when a Dr didn’t not recognize withdrawl from XANAX and assumed it was anxiety. I became educated about withdrawl from searching the Internet and finding benzobuddies.org and other similar websites. Based on my previous experience with the Dr I decided to wean myself off. My life has not been the same since. In some ways better and some ways not.
I wished that I had had access to a doctor such as Dr Prousky to assist in this process. I will say though that as one of the other listeners had stated, that during withdrawl you do become very sensitive to some supplements and it can make your withdrawl symptoms worse. Since withdrawl I still find that I am sensitive to some supplements. Ive gotten a little trepidatious prior to starting a new supplement.
I had just turned 51 when I took my last dose of poision, I mean clonazapam, in fact it was to be a gift to myself. I teared up a little bit when Dr Prousky had stated that if someone started the process with him and had not been eating a proper diet and excerising, etc, that he would want to spend 6 months prepping the person with good health prior to starting the withdrawl process. That is exactly what I have been telling people. That if I could have a do over or help someone go through this horrible (words can not express) experience that I would get your health in good shape. I think from not have good foundational health, perimenopause, withdrawl and the stress of the whole thing it was the perfect storm.
I had the added stress of a rare condition rearing its ugly head about 3 months into the withdrawl, lipedema. It is brought on by hormones and stress and they believe it has an immune component as well. At any rate I watched my legs and then my arms get fat and swollen and again no help from any Drs getting a diagnosis. So add that to the worry and stress. I finally found a group on the Internet and a doc in Arizona that specializes in this condition and got a diagnoses this past June. Thank god for the Internet and people coming together to help each other.
There is so much to my story and I’m still dealing with issues, but I’m not giving up. I’m a survivor, and I believe in the healing abilities of our bodies. I stand up strong in the midst of naysayers, doctors, friends, etc and continue my journey. I’ve come this far and I will continue to glean info from books, summits, the Internet, etc. I am delving into genetics and epigentics right now and and had been looking forward to Dr Ben Lynch and was not disappointed. I have found an MD about 2 hours from here who takes my insurance and has studied with Dr Lynch and practices functional medicine. He was booked out 10 months so I don’t get to see him until July.
So I will end with what most of your presenters say, don’t give up, keep trying an searching for the answers and help. We are all different and what works for one may not work for someone else. And I also believe that it is not one thing that will help but finding the right combination of things for you.
Trudy, thank you for these summits and I look forward to the next summit!
Marta
Thanks for your encouraging words and optimism despite your setbacks. You are so right – we are all unique, keep looking and get your health in order.
Thanks too for sharing your story and I wish you continued healing and learning…
Trudy
An Acupuncturist suggested niacinamide for my husband’s anxiety. He got so much worse very quickly. Turns out B3 will deplete methyl groups which is the wrong thing for my husband due to his MTHFR issues. Dr. Ben Lynch talks about this. B3 is good for people with over methylation issues, and harmful for those who undermethylate.
Shame that this was not mentioned.
Hi Andi
Yes, we are all biochemically unique so there is no one size fits all. I wish we could cover everything but it’s just impossible in an hour. Thanks for sharing your husband’s experience.
Trudy
I tend to be on the overmethylating end – I take about 12mg of sublingual niacin at night before I go to bed and it is like a sleeping pill for me. If I wake up in the middle of the night with a racy heart, I take another piece and it calms it down and helps me fall back to sleep. It’s very interesting how certain supplements can act so differently for people.
Lori
Thanks for sharing! What great results from such a small amount. May I ask which brand – Source Naturals?
I think this treatment may be problematic due to it being a neurosteroid which works like Progesterone. This hits GABA receptors. It would give relief of symptoms because it actually works like a benzo, basically substituting one for the other with the same effect. This may be an issue if someone wants to stop taking the high dose nicinamide. The harsh symptoms are most likely to return. We have seen this with those who started progesterone and other herbs, meds that effect the gaba receptors. I would check more into it. Dr Ashton recommends one to stay away from all supplements and meds that effect gaba. This has been a standing rule within our community. I would like to see the long term results with testimonials that his treatment works. Im always open to new information.
Tamra
Thanks for your thoughtful comment and concerns. I am aware that the standing rule in the benzo community is to stay away from all supplements but I feel this may not be serving everyone in the best possible way. That said, since we are all unique, not everyone will benefit in the same way and I know many can’t tolerate any supps.
I highly regard Dr Ashton’s benzo work and her taper protocols but as far as I am aware she is not familiar with orthomolecular medicine. “Orthomolecular medicine describes the practice of preventing and treating disease by providing the body with optimal amounts of substances which are natural to the body” (http://www.orthomolecular.org/) Niacinamide is an example of one of these substances.
I’ve reached out to Dr Prousky to see if he can add to this discussion.
Hi Trudy, I have been withdrawing from a strong Benzo that my thyroid doctor recommended about ten years ago. On that occasion I had tried to withdraw from a depression medicine and something else, but I thought three months would do the trick. I became very ill with an extremely high blood pressure and trembling, and felt it was an emergency situation at the time. So I asked for a mild tranquilizer, and I recently learned that it was about 4xs the strength of all the other medications I had tried off and on in the preceding 13 years. My anxiety problems were okay, but two years ago I started visiting a new doctor because the old doctor said he couldn’t treat me anymore, my physical disabilities were getting worse. The new doctor suggested that I didn’t need to continue on this Benzo called Restas. So I started to cut down two years ago, but at one point felt it was too hard and started taking the two pills a day for a couple of months. And my old Doctor had told me that I could just stop taking them any time!!! Well I had read the Benzo UK website before, and this time I expected to take two years to come off. In the summer I bought the Hashimotos package a fellow sufferer and I were both listening to all the great information out there, and she was seeing a doctor in California about her root causes and telling me all about it. So I followed her example to some extent. I learned from many doctors on your anxiety summit as well as yourself about GABA, and other amino acids, and was able to purchase two of them. At the same time my T3 was lower than normal so I asked for separate T3 which I was given. I believe that the combination of these plus the good forms of vitamin Bs and gluten free diet started to turn things around for me, and I am gradually losing weight and feeling better than when I was on Restas. GABA and L-Tyrosine that I tried is helping, however I am getting morning sweats and sweating profusely on walking around for short times. I am going through the change of life, so I am also going to try the Evening Primrose oil. It is a lot of information to take in. I am three quarters of the way through your book, but you have explained many things on the summits and in your mails along with other doctors that were on your summit. I was amazed that some doctors were able to take their patients off many Meds in three months with Silimarin! Well, my doctor suggested that I take it slow as my blood pressure went up. My kidneys are weak, so I’ve been prescribed a blood pressure medicine I hope temporarily till I get over the withdrawal which I expect to take time. We must see what happens. I cannot thank you enough for bringing amino acids and foods to our attention to help us have somewhere to turn for help in many ways!
Please help me doctor! I cant even find this on the net. Years ago I took PharmaGaba with psychiatric med. It cause me to have a toxic reaction that i almost died in hospital. Went to psychiatric hospitals 7 or 8 times before they found something I could sleep on because it caused me to not be able to sleep at all along with over the top anxiety. It seems taking them together had opposite effect. Now I have a toxic reaction to vitamins and here recently was the most troublesome situation. I had gone to the hospital w fluid in my lungs after pregnancy and my b/p went 207/113. They put me through 5 or 6 bp meds and ALL of them , beta-blockers or not kept me awake. Ive always had a high systolic but not diastolic. NO ONE not 2 hospitals NOR a cardiologist has heard of this. I have NO idea who to go to or how to figure this out. Please email me, any advice at all , anything! I don’t know what to do sir.
Jenny
I’m sorry to hear this. I’m not a aware of PharmaGABA interacting with psychiatric medications and it’s hard to know if it wasn’t the medication itself. May I ask what medication it was?
With the kinds of reactions you describe I would look for a functional medicine doctor to help you.
Hi Trudy, this is the blog you pointed me to discussing niacinamide. I’m curious if you have others more specifically talking about it, not from a benzo stand point. I’ve been off of the benzo for 1 1/2 years and am starting to feel like I can tolerate large doses of supplements again. During my taper the only thing I could tolerate was aminos. I’ve read studies talking about success treating agoraphobia with high doses of niacinamide and that’s where my curiosity is peaked. I’ve tried it in the past but it was too soon after my stopping the benzo and it made me heavy headed. I think I was up to 500-1000 mg but the studies I was reading were showing successes with much higher doses, 2500-5000 mg. Thanks for any help Trudy!
Jill
I have yet to do a blog dedicated to niacinamide but it’s on the list 🙂 Dr. Prousky’s book “Anxiety: Orthomolecular Diagnosis and Treatment” (on Amazon http://amzn.to/2iZO3Il) has an entire chapter on the topic and we did talk about it in this interview. I use 500-1000mg twice a day with excellent results when it’s needed and would do a trial of using more if this showed some benefits.
I do also have good results with both GABA and tryptophan for agoraphobia too
Thank you so much Trudy! You’re amazing to always reply so quickly! I will get his book today. Glad to hear you have used it (niacinamide) with success too in higher doses. Do you suggest a certain brand or just high quality? I have tried GABA calm at the lowest dose which sometimes helps. I’ve never tried straight gaba. Tryptophan made my head wonky, for lack of a better term. That was just dabbing a bit on my tongue from the capsule. I could try again. I just want to have the agoraphobia under control enough to get to an ND who can help me dig deeper for root causes. Any update on your practice taking new clients, either with you or your trainees? 😉 Fingers crossed!
Oh dear! I wonder why the book is showing only used copies for just under $40?! Yikes! I’ll keep shopping.
Hi Trudy, not sure if you’ll see this or not. I am wondering though if you happen to know if Dr Prousky answers questions or sees patients. I finally was able to buy his book in a kindle form and read the chapter on niacinamide immediately. I bought a 250 mg capsule knowing I’m sometimes sensitive. I started with 250 three times a day for a couple of days then went to 500 mg in the morning which I immediately felt. I wish western medicine Drs understood this prolonged benzo brain. At least that’s what I’m calling it. When I take most supplements I get such an uncomfortable pressure in my head. I’m so disappointed as I have really high hopes for the niacinamide. I’m really just wondering if there might be a benefit in taking a lower more comfortable dose for a while to get used to it and then moving up. Or do you think if it doesn’t feel good I shouldn’t take it as it might not be doing any good? I know you can’t prescribe but I’m just looking for any input based on experience. Thank you for any reply if you have a second.
Jill
I’m afraid “uncomfortable pressure in my head” is not something I like to be hearing with a client – I’d have them use less if they were having benefits and no side effects. Dr Prousky does see patients – in person in Toronto. He has a lot of expertise in this area and it may well be worth a trip. I suggest checking if he can work over the phone after the initial in person consult.
Oh how I wish I could head to Toronto (or anywhere else) Trudy! 🙁 I’m housebound with agoraphobia since coming off of Ativan 1.5 years ago.
Benefits with no side effects is not happening as it seems benefits come from higher doses, with niacinamide especially. I’m absolutely devastated. Every single thing I try since stopping prescription medications makes me feel awful. But wouldn’t you think there must be something?
I was so hopeful that letting time pass I’d be able to try various supplements again. I’m so defeated. I truly believe something will help I just keep getting knocked down. You’re not ready for new clients yet are you?
Sorry to hear this Jill. We’re almost ready….
That’s great news! I’m holding my breath. Thank you Trudy for everything you do.
Hi, B12 is a significant vitamin. You can check out http://www.b12awareness.org and b12deficiency.info to name a couple of sights to look at. The film Sally Pacholok is now available on youtube to see the true story about a nurse’s findings about B12.
Hi, http://www.b12deficiency.info is the UK site.
Hi Trudy or Anyone here –
I am dealing with severe issues from benzo withdrawal. I have done a long taper off and jumped off a several months ago. I thought it would be done my now however, many symptoms remain.
Anyway I recently stumbled across Niacinamide, and find it VERY helpful. However, this is worrisome, since it supposedly interacts with the GABA receptor, and I hear you should not take anything that touches the GABA receptor.
Does anyone know if it is okay to take Niacinamide for benzo withdrawal?
Also, I am looking for the interview this page is about, but don’t see it. Can anyone point me to the interview? I would like to read the section on “Melatonin and niacinamide during benzodiazepine withdrawal”.
I am going to try to contact Dr. Prousky as well. I would like to find the interview, but don’t see it on here…
Doug
Benzo tapers can be difficult for many. I’m glad to hear niacinamide is helpful for you. As you can see Dr. Prousky finds it extremely helpful with his patients tapering from benzos.
I know many support groups don’t recommend any supplements but I have found that each individual is different and many of my clients do benefit from niacinamide, GABA, melatonin and other nutrients. I like to get my clients nutritionally stable BEFORE they begin to taper (no gluten, no sugar, no caffeine, real whole food, adrenal support etc)
This interview was part of the Anxiety Summit season 2- a series of interviews covering various topics related to nutrition and anxiety. It can be purchased here https://season2.theanxietysummit.com/