Dr. Benjamin Lynch ND, MTHFR and methylation expert, is interviewed by host of the Anxiety Summit, Trudy Scott, Food Mood Expert and Nutritionist, author of The Antianxiety Food Solution.
How Methylfolate can make you Feel Worse and even Cause Anxiety, and What to do about it
- Methylfolate and the MTHFR polymorphism
- Anxiety and other side effects of too much methylfolate
- How to prevent methylfolate side-effects
- How to determine how much methylfolate to take
Here are some snippets from our interview (Dr Lynch actually closed with these wise words) :
Just because you have MTHFR doesn’t mean you’re screwed!
Don’t look at MTHFR as a bad thing
It just means you have to do things differently
Be proactive and don’t be scared about it
At the start of our interview he said this:
Anxiety can be relieved by methylfolate but it can also be made worse
Here are some snippets from Dr. Lynch’s excellent article: Methylfolate Side Effects
Methylfolate is a remarkable nutrient yet it can create significant side effects.
Those who have MTHFR mutations (especially the C677T MTHFR mutation) learn that methylfolate is critical to take. The issue is methylfolate can cause more harm than good if not started at the right time or tapered up slowly in amount.
There appear to be three types of responses to methylfolate:
FIRST: A person who can jump on methylfolate and feel absolutely wonderful. The only down side they experience is why didn’t they know about methylfolate before?!
SECOND: A person starts methylfolate has an amazingly incredible week where they are happy, interacting and alert. Then the second week comes and they switch to wanting to hide in a room by themselves or literally throw dishes across the room out of anger. Or they may become bed ridden from muscle aches, intense headaches or joint pain.
THIRD: A person takes a small amount of methylfolate and feels all the methylfolate side effects right out the gate.
The above blog also lists the Methylfolate Side Effects:
- irritability
- insomnia
- sore muscles
- achy joints
- acne
- rash
- severe anxiety
- palpitations
- nausea
- headaches
- migraines
I encourage you to read the whole blog that Dr Lynch has written (Methylfolate Side Effects)
And here is the related blog on Preventing Methylfolate Side Effects. I’ve included some snippets here but please read the whole article too
ALREADY TAKING METHYLFOLATE AND FEEL GREAT?
Excellent! However, it may be a ‘honeymoon’ period and in a few days or weeks, side effects may appear.
Discuss this article with your doctor and make appropriate changes to your protocol.
Just think of a bell-shaped curve.
Before you started taking methylfolate, you felt terrible. You began taking it and started to feel good. Day after day goes by and you continue to improve. In time if the above things are not corrected, you will begin to slide down the other side of the bell-shaped curve.
My whole point of this article is to prevent this from happening!
My goal is to keep you feel amazing!
I’ve seen it happen way too much – caused by me, caused by other doctors and caused by over-excited people feeling amazing and pushing their system too hard with methylfolate. Methylfolate is powerful.
This last statement by Dr. Lynch is why I invited him to speak on this summit on this topic!
This is the Dr. Carl Pfeiffer and Dr Bill Walsh histapenia/histadelia blog post that I referred to in our discussion. You can either read the discussion in the comments or read this new blog post I created: Methylation and anxiety: histadelia and histapenia.
Here is information about the first annual Seeking Health Educational Institute Conference, SHEI Con 15 (an event for health professionals).
Dr Lynch and a team of world-renowned physicians will be presenting absolutely new clinically-relevant information that has never been seen before ANYWHERE.
The main topics of SHEI Con 15 are centered around where physicians must look to recover their patient’s heath at the core.
Mitochondria: Function, Dysfunction, Connections to Pathologies, Identification and Restoration
Cell Membranes: Function, Dysfunction, Connections to Pathologies, Identification and Restoration
If you are not already registered for the Anxiety Summit you can get live access to the speakers of the day here: www.theAnxietySummit.com
Missed this interview or can’t listen live? Or want this and the other great interviews for your learning library? Purchase the MP3s or MP3s + transcripts and listen when it suits you.
You can find your purchasing options here: Anxiety Summit Season 1, Anxiety Summit Season 2, and Anxiety Summit Season 3.
Dr. Lynch, you have helped me a lot. I have been working at opening the methylation pathways according to your advice. I followed your protocol to prepare for taking the methylfolate and B-12. I use your B-minus and a few other supplements like TMG, B-6, turmeric, D-3 and digestive enzymes and probiotics on and off. These steps are working. I feel really good. I have been very slow about dosing so that I do not overdo it. I tried to use B-12 and methylfolate right off the bat before and ended up with a 3-day migraine. NOW I am listening:) I also use CellFood and Dr. Carolyn Dean’s ReMag and ReLyte and RnA drops. I also ozonate my water. It is like a miracle. All these things combined with careful diet and I feel like I could run a marathon. Only 2 weeks ago I could hardly climb up 6 stairs. Now I run up 10 just to prove I can:) Thanks so much for your advice. I have Lyme, Hep C and several of the MTHFR gene mutations. I have been severely chronically ill for 18 years. I have researched and researched health. It was the MTHFR knowledge that changed everything. Thank-you:)
What wonderful results Laurie – so glad to hear how much Dr Lynch has helped and thanks for sharing here!
Laurie,
How exciting to hear that someone who has been chronically ill for so long is recovering and making progress! I have had severe CFS & MCS for over 20 years.
I’m wondering if you would mind sharing where you found Dr. Lynch’s protocol to open methylation pathways.
Thank you & I wish you continued success!
Debbie
Awesome Laurie! 🙂
Thank you for sharing!
Keep improving and optimizing!
Best
Dr Lynch
Hi Laurie, your words are really motivating for specially lymie and others so please share us regarding methyl foliate, methyl cobalamin, and other protocol which help us who already suffering. Thanks
Regarding a discussion of folic acid not suitable for Histadaliacs (high histamine) I believe the solution I’ve researched is high histamine are to avoid folic acid. But it’s safe to take GLUCOSAMINE SALT FOLATE.
Such as from http://www.MethylPro.com
The reason?
People cannot convert folic acid and it’s very unhealthy.
However the glucosamine salt folate does not require conversion and is beneficial to me (I hold 677 MTHFR and am a Histadaliac (high histamine).
I also find it keeps my Homocysteine at healthy levels.
Keep studies and research coming!! 🙂
Tanya
As far as I am aware, if someone has had the whole blood histamine test done and has high histamine (histadelia) then all forms of folate need to be avoided. I will say that I have not worked with many individuals who do have histadelia (because it affects more men than women).
It may be that folic acid is bad for histadelics (all the earlier studies and writings refer to folic acid), but activated forms of folate are more tolerated? Clearly we have much to learn.
Did you have the whole blood histamine test done? and was it done thru Vitamin Diagnostics?
Trudy
And what about the need to take folates before, during and after pregnancy? Catch 22. You need them for pregnancy, but high histamine, undermethylators and pyrroles people should avoid them. Dilemma!
My son and I have been diagnosed as having significantly reduced MTHFR function leading to mild to moderate hyperhomocysteinemia. We have genotypes 677>C T TT and 1298A>C AA We are both pretty healthy. Our doctor prescribed cerefolin. I’m still very confused about how much methylfolate to take, where is the lozenge sold, and is there a test to let us know how much to take and should we be taking cerefolin?
Thank you!
Kimberly Phillips
I’ll ask Dr Lynch to comment as I’m not familiar with Cerefolin
Dr Lynch:
Thank you..your presentation provided such a
wealth of information. I look forward to using
your website to learn more.
Two questions re testing: I have celiac & know
I have nutrient deficiencies. My D3 was 7.5
What test/lab would you recommend to look at
levels of key nutrients? What test/lab would you
recommend for the MTHFR gene defect(s)?
I appreciate your help.
Kathy – I use 23andme for MTHFR and others
Dr. Lynch, thank you for the wealth of information! I have small fiber neuropathy for which my neurologist wants me to take a medical food containing 2.5 mg methyltetrahydrofolate among other things. My endocrinologist wants me to supplement for iodine deficiency for which I also have. I also recently found after Spectracell testing that I have a heterozygous 6977CT mutation, borderline deficiences of Micronutrient testing for Pantothenate (Vit B5), Carnitine, Total Antioxidant Function, Immunidex. On top of everything else I have a connective tissue disorder and may possibly have a malabsorption issue. I know I need to be taking something….just not sure what that something(s) is but just have hesitated beginning the medical food containing the methyltetrahydrofolate (and is this the same thing as methylfolate?) with some of these other things. Any advice is appreciated!
Hi Nancy
I’ll ask Dr Lynch to come and comment for you
Trudy
Ridges on finger nails and Hair test may show you are not absorbing minerals. No gluten/hidden gluten may let a person absorb more nutrients. GMO corn may also hurt the gut lining so nutrients don’t absorb. Lyme/ticks may hurt connective tissues. Vit C may help make collagen. I need no gluten/dairy/soy/sugar/GMO…vitamins/good oils/minerals…probiotic…LDN..detoxing to be ok. Iodine levels are on hair tests. Best wishes.
Hi Trudy,
I am stuck and would greatly appreciate any advice you may have. I am homo for both MTHFR gene mutations. I am 33 years old have been working with many naturopathic doctors as I have been diagnosed with CFS, hormone imbalance, hormone migraines, PMS, anxiety. I have tried everything under the sun (including bio-identical hormone replacement, MTHF [at too high of a dose], most supplements).
I am so sensitive that anything I try results in increased panic attacks, anxiety, headaches and subsequently increases my HR and BP. I wonder if this is what it feels like to over methylate? Other than this I am a very healthy individual. My fitness and diet are impeccable.
I am trying to prepare my body for methy-folate, but B12 makes everything worse. Through Dr. Lynch’s website, I have been able to figure out with my doctor that I have Pyroluria. But can’t seem to tolerate . I did a sepctracell test and am B6 deficient, but can’t tolerate B6 either? I am very lost on next steps. Anything I try makes my anxiety, panic attacks and headaches worse. I’ve had a gene test done, but cannot find a doctor who will help me interpret it to see if my genes are the root cause.
Any advice you have would be greatly appreciated. I am willing to try anything at this point to calm my anxiety, panic attacks and headaches down.
I’m sorry about how you’re feeling – I’ll ask Dr Lynch to come and comment for you
You don’t mention GABA – I’d have you do the low GABA questionnaire and see if a very small amount may help – maybe just a dab to start.
Some other things to consider while you’re trying to figure out things: Rescue Remedy or Lavender/neroli/citrus essential oil or heartmath/biofeedback/guided imagery
He doesn’t comment anyplace so wondering why you make this statement?
Yvonne – I was hoping he would 🙂
If your used “23 and Me” for your genetic info, you can go to MTHFR Support.com and securely upload your ‘raw data’. For just $20 (!) they will provide you with a very detailed analysis including, but not limited to, methylation, detoxification phase 1 and 2, blood clotting, immune conditions, and more. Their new Version 2 is wonderfully informative and even has pathway maps for each set. Best wishes for your health and happiness!
Jessica, this may sound “out there”, but Human BioAcoustics as pioneered by Sharry Edwards may lead you to a solution. Over the last few decades, Sharry’s work at the non-profit Institute of BioAcoustic Biology and Sound Health has quietly proven beneficial in the most dire of cases. From regrowing nerves and bones, correcting and treating medical mis-diagnosis, alleviating back pain, macular degeneration, PTSD, and more, this technology never ceases to amaze.
The basic principle is simple: a 30-second vocal sample is taken; computer analysis reveals the frequencies that are too high or low, which correspond to bodily functions, toxins, deficiencies, excesses, proteins, hormones, etc. Traditional treatments may then be sought whether nutritional, chiropractic, or whatever. However, sometimes you can’t go out and buy a particular gene or hormone; but the audio frequency equivalent can be given, and has produced astonishing results.
See http://www.soundhealthoptions.com and join the online Tuesday “Happy Hour” sessions for a demonstration. Sharry works tirelessly to continue bioacoustic research, and to teach these techniques so that people can take health back into their own hands.
Jessica, you don’t mention if you have one or more CBS gene mutations, but if you do you will want to take care of those first before you add methylfolate or even methyl-B12. B6 is often a problem when sulfur levels are too high. All your symptoms sound very familiar. Check out heartfixer.com for a detailed explanation of methylation and a protocol for CBS mutations. We started with Dr. Lynch (very helpful), but had to backtrack and fix the CBS issues before moving forward. Good luck!
This link don’t go the the right page, could you please take care?
”
This is the Dr. Carl Pfeiffer and Dr Bill Walsh histapenia/histadelia blog post that I – See more at: https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxiety-summit-methylfolate-anxiety/#sthash.67uoQYC6.dpuf….”
I agree with you comments about Folate and Histadelia,
Thanks for the summit, best Carmen
Carmen
I just checked all the links and they seem to be working – please check again
Glad you hear you agree with my folate and histadelia comments – please do share more. Have you been tested (whole blood histamine of course) and your results? are you using the Pfeiffer protocol with success? thanks
Trudy
Actually have a new question: 24 year old son with high anxiety, ADHD, and OCD–he is brilliant–not coming from mom, but from his PhD. mentor who is prepping him for grad school, as well as past instructors. His mind runs everywhere and can really only do well with one task at a time–hence, the obsessive attention to his essays, etc. Is taking Adderall XR, but I don’t see the benefits–more scattered than ever. HE DOES HAVE THE ”A” MTHFR MUTATION–HE HAS BEEN USING THE BETTER BRAIN FROM GARDEN OF LIFE AND SAYS HE FEELS MUCH BETTER. WHEN HE TAKES IT, THAT IS! INCONSISTENCY IS CONSISTENT W HIM. I TOO, HAVE A AND C MUTATIONS. My nurse practitioner has prescribed Deplin 15 mg, but he is not taking–I od”d and am now backing off of it. Feel we need to see s specialist for this as he grows more and more intense on everything. Any suggestions?????
Hi Chris
I’ll have Dr Lynch come and comment
But will add my 2 cents first. I do not recommend Deplin due to all the fillers and these could be really bad with the existing ADHD your son experiences. I have a blog about Deplin and will share the link here shortly.
I also really find that tryptophan and inositol can work well for OCD. I have my clients do the amino acid questionnaire so we can figure out if aminos may help https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxiety-targeted-individual-amino-acid-supplement/
Keep in mind you need folate and good methylation to make neurotransmitters like serotonin and dopamine so using the aminos together with methylfolate may be what is needed
Trudy
Hi, ADHD/OCD/anxiety can be due to Celiac. NO gluten/dairy/soy/sugar/GMO…vitamins/good oils/minerals…probiotic…LDN..detoxing may help. AdderallXR and more may cover symptoms, but doesn’t help the Celiac. Untreated Celiac can get worse with agae. Anxiety can be due to low oxygen in the brain due to gluten not allowing nutrients to absorb…then cells are not made right to work right to burn oxygen. Benfotiamine may help obessing. ADHD can be due to low nutrients absorbed in intestines due to gluten hurting villi. Seeking Health MTHF 1000 mcg is what I use. The drug version of folate has colors etc which are not good. I get my supplements on Amazon. Best wishes.
This is what I do.
No gluten/dairy/soy/sugar/GMO and vitamins/good oils, LDN and detoxing help me. Vit D3 5000IU, zinc 50mg if detoxing, 2000mg fish oil , 20000mg evening primrose oil. 2000 mg lecithin, Phosphatidylserine/DMAE, krill oil, CLA, Coenzyme Q10, Rhodiola, Mg citrate 400mg, Vit C, 5000mcg of biotin, Nature’s Plus- Source of life multiple, HCl and enzymes with meals, dairy free probiotic, Vit B12 methylcobalamin shot/spray/under the tongue kind/intrinsic factor kind, MTHF folate, coenyzme Q10, rhodiola, may help brain/body/thyroid/depression/immune system and more. Gluten is wheat/barley/rye..oats may act like gluten with avenin. GMO corn/soy/canola oil may hurt. Amour thyroid maybe needed since gluten may made antibodies to the thyroid. Coenzymated B vitamins far from synthetic kind make make me calm.
Sunlight (helps the immune system and helps to heal the gut lining),exercise, organic food, good water..not tap water, cooking by scratch pure food….. no food in a box/bag/premade/label/restaurant which may help avoid hidden gluten. Certified gluten free food may have 20ppm of gluten…too much. Nuts not sold in the shell/meat basting/some spices may have hidden gluten and lotion/make up etc. One restaurant cooks special for me…rice/veg/tea/extra mushrooms (no meat since the woks may have MSG/gluten in them).
EDTA/DMPS IV chelations from an Alternative doctor, 600mg of cilantro, organic sulfur, Now brand- Detox support, Far Infrared Sauna and more may help detox. Hair tests show good minerals and heavy metals. Heavy metals can block thyroid and other chemical reactions in the body/brain.
LDN may help block hidden gluten/heal the gut lining and help the immune system, but the Celiac diet is still needed. 100% no gluten..no hidden or microscopic gluten may help. Cutting back on gluten or cheating by eating gluten hurts the immune system. It may take 1 1/2 months to heal the gut lining after getting hidden gluten.
Amour thyroid has some T3 and Calcitonin. Synthroid is only T4..may not convert to T3. Zn/Se/enough iron/strong probiotic may help convert T4 to T3 for thyroid.
Alternative doctors/chiropractors/acupuncturists and more may help with health/vitamins etc.
Hi Chris – You may want to check into neurofeedback. It is reportedly very effective and permanent for all of the issues your son has. Also check into HEG training by brain train. This you can buy and do at home. I have started this and both have been very helpful so far and I am in the early stage of doing.
Thanks for sharing Maggie – HEG is new to me but it looks promising. I’m curious if you are also incorporating diet and a nutrient-based approach?
Have you had your son evaluated for Asperger’s Syndrome?
We found eliminating gluten, casein, corn, sugar, colors, additives, etc. made an amazing difference.
A very insightful thought, easily overlooked in all these complexities.
Hi Dr Lynch,
I would like to first thank you for all the work you have done. I follow all your work and am using your info to help myself, my mother and father and anyone else I can that is struggling and has fallen through the medical cracks.
I am homozygous for 1298 and suffer a range of symptoms, including anxiety, mental fatigue and physical fatigue. My doctor had me on 3000mg of Niacinamide/day for anxiety, but after I learnt that B3 was a methyl sponge I stopped.
However Niacinamide is a nutrient used for many protocols – OCD, BH4, anxiety, getting rid of excess glutamate, but I am not sure now if I can use it and if I can at what dose before it negatively impacts my methylation. My doctor also recommended ATP Fuel for my fatigue, but this includes NADH, the active form of B3, so again not sure if I can take it. Can’t find this answer anywhere and my doctor doesn’t know, so I really could use your advice.
So my questions are:
– What dosage of niacinamide can I take?
– Is it fine to take the APT Fuel(along with the niacinamide)?
Thanks so much for your help.
Nicole
I’ll have Dr Lynch come and comment
I can share that I have MTHFR 1298C and since I also have low histamine/histapenia I take 500mg x2 niacinamide daily (we did talk about the interview) and I could not do without it! I started on the niacinamide long before I discovered the MTHFR 1298C defect.
I’m just sharing what’s working for me. Each of us is different.
Trudy
HI, See my comment to the person above this comment. ATP..did not work for me until I got the rest of my supplements ok. You can’t speed up a cell if the cell is not made right. I just did trial and error for my supplements. I did not have testing done and found out what worked for me. I could tell on the first capsule if it was right/wrong for me. Electrodermal or muscle testing may also help a person figure out what supplements may help. Anxiety can be due to low oxygen in the brain. Celiac diet/supplements/detoxing etc helped me rebuild my cells to burn oxygen. Each person is different. I had 1000X more energy after two weeks of no gluten when my intestines started absorbing nutrients again. Hidden gluten can hurt in food with a label/certified gluten free/nuts not sold in the shell/meat basting/some spices and more. Best wishes.
Thanks Trudy for bringing up over and under methylation. I know this is gonna open up more discussion on the topic. Would love for Dr. Lynch and Dr. Walsh to collaborate. It would be nice to get a a clearer picture on this whole subject. I know people just want to feel better! Myself included. I’ve listened to both Lynch and Walsh. But have not decided on what path to take because there is so much confusion.
Rebekah
Thanks for sharing and yes a meshing of these brilliant minds will be great!
If you’d share some info that will helps us all learn more:
1) have you done MTHFR testing and what are the results?
2) have you done the whole blood histamine and what are the results?
3) have you done the low and high histamine questionnaires and what are the results?
4) have you tried any protocols, which and what are the results?
Thanks so much
Trudy
Thank you Trudy and Dr. Lynch! Great information, however, We still are uncertain as to whether we can use folate if we are undermethylated and have high histamine.
Also, Mensah medical and Dr. Walsh’s trained physicians say that
if you have pyloria, you should not take omega 3. You should take evening primrose oil- omega six only and also not to eat foods high in omega 3.
This is a daily delemma that needs to be understood. Possibly if Dr. Lynch or yourself contacted mensah Medical they will respond if Dr. Walsh has not.
Jeanne
Based on Carl Pfeiffer’s work you should not take folic acid (thats FOLIC acid) and even reduce high folate foods if you have high histamine/histadelia. This was always my understanding when working in Julia Ross’ clinic and this is what Joan Mathews Larson’s writes about in “Depression Free Naturally” and uses in her clinic. I’m not so sure about avoiding foods high in folate.
But based on what I do know about high histamine/histadelia I would be wary about any form of folate due to the fact that these folks are more prone to suicide.
I honestly don’t know if methylfolate would cause the same problem. Perhaps it’s the high histamine/histadelia folks that have a bigger issue with needing the varying amounts of methylfolate that Dr Lynch talks about?
I’m sorry I don’t have a clear answer for you – I’m trying to figure it all out myself which is why I asked these questions.
I would agree that most people with pyroluria do not need supplemental omega-3s and often need GLA – but doing a fatty acid test would be a great way to know exactly what your needs are. I do disagree about this: “not to eat foods high in omega 3” – pyrolurics often don’t need supplemental omega3 because they can extract it from the foods they eat (fish, grass-fed meat, leafy greens, walnuts etc)
And I agree, getting Dr Lynch and Dr Walsh together will be great and is something I’m going to work on. In the meantime, just remember that there is no one size fits all and we’re all trying to help.
Trudy
Trudy, I am sorry to hear you have a personal reason to learn about this, but thankful that you are going to SHEI Con 15, researching, and will figure it out / share what you learn with the rest of us!
Thank you both for bringing to us such valuable information.
From Genova, NutrEval tesing– they said that I need 1200 mcg of folic acid. I do have heterogenous C677T, with fibromylagia and chronic fatigue.
So does that mean 1200 mcg of methylfolate? Is the dose being suggested same as methylfolate? Or ??
Thank you for your time.
Hi DG
I’m sure your practitioner meant methylfolate. You would not want to take folic acid. As you heard Dr. Lynch say in the interview, there is no set amount for anyone, and it can vary on a daily basis (plus it may be too much some days and not enough other days)
Trudy
Thank you Trudy. The report from Genova Labs gave the amount of dosage with the word folic acid attached. Is the dosage of folic acid equivalent to dosage for methylfolate??
I asked my practitioner and she was not certain. Thank you for clarifying. And yes, I will keep in mind that dosage changes, not constant.
The 1200 mcg seemed high to me. Dr. Lynch, did I read somewhere that it should start low like 25 or 50? Thank you again both for your work and for sharing your passions for better health with us.
DG
Yes I believe 1200mg folic acid would likely be used interchangeably with 1200mg methylfolate. But since we can’t process folic acid as well the 1200mg methyfolate would likely be more potent. And even more of an issue if you have MTHFR defect/s.
I’m hoping Dr Lynch will come and comment on this + the fact that Genova has folic acid on their reports!
Trudy
I do Genova tests, but never used their amounts, just took what worked for me. Seeking Health brand 1000mcg of folate is fine for me. B vitamins are water soluble so I also take coenyzmated B vitamins other times of the day. I use the Pure Brand- B complex plus. Fibromyalgia/chronic fatigue maybe due to Celiac. Cyrex labs may help, but not regular blood tests and biospies. I told Chris (above comment) my Celiac protocol..short version. I had 1000X more energy after 2 weeks of 100% no gluten and felt 20 years younger. I also need Amour thyroid due to gluten making antibodies to my thyroid. Best wishes.
I’ll ask Dr Lynch to come and comment for you
Glycine can help promote glutathione production. Mag glycine is esp helpful.
Best not to use epsom salts (mag sulfate) with BHMT 08 and CBS.
COMT makes one sensitive to methyl donors, as does CBS. stick with low dose MeF. You may prefer hydroxy B12 to MeB12
After listening to the talk with Dr. Lynch I’m confused about what to do. I was already familiar with Dr. Lynch before the talk and knew about methylfolate for MTHFR mutations (I am heterozygous for both). I was under the impression that methylfolate was key to getting the detox pathways working properly so that treatment for other issues (I have Lyme, Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, gut dysbiosis, a viral load, etc,) could work effectively. In your talk with Dr. Lynch he said that people who are severely compromised, as I am, should steer clear of methylfolate. About a year ago I tried 1mg and had a migraine. I am now taking 200mcg with no ill effects. So I’m wondering if Dr. Lynch is now saying that someone in my position would need to clear up the infections before taking methylfolate. I thought that I needed methylfolate to be able to properly clear the infections. Any clarification on this issue would be greatly appreciated!
Shellie
As you heard Dr. Lynch also say in the interview, there is no set amount for anyone, and it can vary on a daily basis (plus it may be too much some days and not enough other days).
I’m hoping he’s going to be able to come and comment on the blog but here is my 2 cents. If someone is doing well on 200mcg with no ill effects I wouldn’t change things
HI, I have Lyme. I need Celiac help which helps my immune system….No gluten/dairy/soy/sugar/GMO…vitamins/good oils/probiotic…LDN..detoxing to be well. LDN and herbs for Lyme help me. Adrenal help helps the immune system. I take MTHF folate with no problem. Lyme itself may cause headaches. I learned by trial and error what I needed. Electrodermal testing also helps me know what may work for me. My comment to Chris is my short version of my Celiac protocol. For Lyme…Teasel/Banderol/garlic/oil of oregano/AL complex/ Artemisia and clove, Far Infrared Sauna which helps kill Lyme etc and detox…then strong probiotics help. The electrodermal person gave me Homeopathic drops that help also. Best wishes.
Thanks for your comment Trudy, yes I am so glad someone finally bought up the issue regarding B3 supplementation.
One thing I have also come across which I am unsure about is glycine/TMG. My doctor recommended glycine to improve anxiety, as it is an inhibitory neurotransmitter (NT). However I read an article that said Glycine can be excitory, especially if you lean towards glutamate excess. My last urine NT test showed that I have high glutamate, I am also guessing if you have anxiety, you will have high levels of excitory NTs?
So not sure if whether it is ok to supplement with glycine and TMG (which contains glycine) and if this will further increase my glutamate levels?
Nicole
I don’t use urinary NT testing and would rely on the response to the glycine. I have yet to see if be an issue for someone
I take glycine daily. It may relax some people and may be used to help make glutathione to help detox. I help anxiety by raising oxygen in my brain by Celiac help. See my above comment to Chris. Best wishes.
My doctor recommended I take an active B complex twice a day, which has 400 mcg of methyl folate in it (so the total dose would be 800)
I am having a genetic test, but do not have the results back yet.
I am a bit scared to start on methyl folate without the results. Is such a low dose safe? Thanks.
Joanne – the RDA is now 800mcg and this would typically be fine for most people but as Dr Lynch mentioned this may even be too much for sensitive folks
Trudy – Just wanted to say that I took just one of the B complex tables (400 mcg) and had really bad anxiety for two days. Guess i am one of the sensitive ones.
I’m sorry to hear this Joanne – some people need much smaller amounts of methylfolate. It’s also not clear what you took (you say B complex)
Thank you Dr Lynch for continuously researching and updating your brilliant work, and for so generously sharing it so that we can find a path towards health and well being – and for having such a wonderfully authentic and unpretentious approach! Trudy, your excellent skills helped bring forth cutting-edge information on so many important aspects of complex MTHFR issues!
thanks Roseann – and agreed – Dr Lynch is brilliant! I always welcome the opportunity to share his expertise!
Hi Trudy and Dr. Lynch,
Great talk today. You both have helped me so much and given me answers and hope. GABA really helps me.
After the last Anxiety Summit, I’ve been following Dr. Lynch’s supplement recommendations to me and got some testing done. But, instead of the Methylation profile, my practitioner ordered the DNA Methylation pathway.
I am Homozygous MTHFR 1298, MTHFR/3, VDR/Taq1
and Heterozygous for MTR/2756, MTRR/66, MTRR/11, BMHT/2 & 8, CBS 360, VDR/Fok1. Got a HRT and found Mercury, Cad, Aluminum, Lead.
I think I got worse trying to do a metal & liver detox, eating and taking supplements high in sulfur, sulfates and sulfites.
I’m taking Molybdenum and Thiamine and I still struggle to lower my urinary sulfate/sulfite despite my low protein/sulfur, GF, CF free diet. I react bad to 5-MTHF 1mg with or without B12. I keep trying quarter tablets of Hydroxy B12 or Adeno lozenges but get headaches, achy muscles, insomnia, and angry mood by the 2nd day.
Are these side-effects caused by high sulfate/sulfite or because of a Glutamate/GABA imbalance or increased excitotoxins? I’ve read that B12 will also help lower sulfate/sulfites but I’m stuck cause I can’t continue B12. My B12 level was 2000 does it mean I don’t need any and I’m over dosing?
Because of my +/-CBS360, is Glutathione via IV a bad idea? How will I get rid of the heavy metals. My practitioner is also recommending Tri-methyl Glycine and an EDTA shot. I’d like to your thoughts on these.
I was taking Glycine with Glutamine trying to make my own glutathione. Many functional practitioners recommend this and found out it increases excitotoxins. Wondering if this also causes the side effects with B12 & folate.
Myra – I’m hoping Dr Lynch can come and comment
Far Infrared Sauna…I bought one from Amazon..(one man/carbon filter)helps detox heavy metals/yeast/bacteria/chemicals. People can sweat out the poisons and later restore the good minerals which they also well sweat out. People can buy liposomal glutathione or glutathione push. It doesn’t hurt me, but yes…it has sulfur in it. I take glycine daily..no problem for me. Electrodermal or muscle testing or trial and error helps me see what helps me. Best wishes.
Hi Dr. Lynch:
Great Information!
How should we approach the different types of B12? Is it acceptable to follow the advise of Dr Amy Yasko and use COMT V158M and VDR Taq to find the ideal form B12 to take?
I notice Seeking Health has the “Active B12 Lozenge With L-5-MTHF” which contains Methylcobalamin and Adenosylcobalamin forms of B12. However, there is no equivalent lozenge with Hydroxocobalamin AND Adenosylcobalamin. Would the recommendation then be to take “Hydroxo B12 Lozenges” AND “Adeno B12 Lozenges” AND “L-5-MTHF” (splinting the lozenges to fine tune the dose) AND probably adding “B-Minus – B12 and Folate Free” to support?
Thank you!
I’m hoping Dr Lynch can come and comment
I take the Hydroxo Vit B12 2000mcg under the tongue kind and also take a daily Vit B12 methylcobalamin 2500mcg shot which helps me. B vitamins are water soluble. They can rinse out of the body. I take the under the tongue kind if I feel my balance is off in the day and the shot before bed which helps me sleep. The shot is much stronger and helps stress/prevent crying very hard/stage fright/helps sleep and cognitive errors for me. I can not do the Adenosylcobalamin kind. Best wishes.
Hi Trudy,
Thanks again for all of your hard work in putting this seminar together! Because I fit in the category of OCD I have always avoided folate according to what I have read. My last plasma histamine test was .25 (<1.00) and plasma homosysteine was 7.4 (0-15). I am still not sure after this presentation if it is ok for me to try methylfolate or not? My anxiety has been better as I have been working with a homeopath to get rid of parasites and candida and heavy metals and improve leaky gut. In the past I did not get huge improvement from amino acids. I am not really sure where my histamine is now. So, does Dr Lynch use methylfolate for clients whether they have high or low histamine? Thanks!
Heather
Dr Lynch does not look at whole blood histamine
Trudy
MTHF gave me more circulation in my toes. I take histadine daily. Zinc raises histamine. Vit C lowers histamine. Leaky gut in me was due to Lyme/antibiotics/gluten/GMO corn. Detoxing heavy metals helped unblock chemical reactions and help my thyroid work better. My zinc was blocked by heavy metals. I used EDTA/DMPS IV chelations to detox. Nothing oral helped me detox. Now organic sulfur/glutathione/Now brand- Detox support/Vit C, Epsom salts and more help me detox. Each person is different. Best wishes.
I wish gene defects would be called “variations” as that is what they truly are. Also, I wish Dr. Lynch didn’t always “hold back” information and speak in a way that invokes fear. 🙁
Hi Jaz
You can call them variations 🙂 I don’t think Dr Lynch holds back anything. In fact I think he is one of the most giving practitioners I’ve come across! Just go to his site to see what I mean.
I’m sorry you feel fearful when you hear him. Rather than fear I feel empowered with the information! And if you can’t make the mindset shift from fearful to empowered then look into low serotonin or low GABA to help you feel less fearful.
Trudy
Yes would like terms of Variations or Differences. Some of these snps can be very useful depending on circumstances. They also are not always being expressed!!!
Would really like to know if homozygous for say 677T(MTHFR),
and its not expressing, may have posiblilty of being able to absorb more natural folates (or even the “enriched ” foods).
Also other listings thought Dr Lynch made of side effects of MF and they sounded like histamine reactions,even though, MF is supposed to be histamine reducing (wonder what it becomes). When I try MF, get sleepy, Really wish it would help me think better, at least MB12 does!
Trudy, I am starting to see a trend. Many of your speakers are lecturing about various health issues from first hand experience. Who is better qualified to address these subtle issues than a medical doctor or researcher or other health practitioner who has suffered, discovered the cause, and then come out on top of illness that is often debilitating? This can give us all a lot of hope. Bravo, for finding these people and throwing the spotlight on them.
You go, girl!
Hi MaryLiz
Thanks so much! what a lovely message to post! You’re so right, we live it, we find solutions and then we want to share it with the world. I work hard to find these amazing people and love what they offer, their expertise and their passion – and their willingness to be vulnerable and open. I absolutely love my speakers for this!
Trudy
AMEN! Yes, there does seem to be a common attitude among these speakers of trying to help each other, not the usual attitude from medically trained folks, “There is no need for you to think, honey. I know it all, just do as I say and you will be fine.”
Bless you, Trudy, and all these speakers!
Nancy – thanks for the chuckle and for your kind words. I agree, the speakers on the Anxiety Summits are incredible!
Direct Healthcare Access online is a good place to order a whole blood histamine, and a Pyroluria urine test.
Thank you Rebecca for sharing this. Labcorp also offers the histamine test but you do have to specify whole blood histamine. The other US lab is HDRI (was Vitamin Diagnostics)
Here is the HDRI information on the whole blood histamine test http://www.europeanlaboratory.nl/documents/%20HISTAMINE_IN_WHOLE_BLOOD_ENG.pdf
Just a heads up that I no longer order the pyroluria urine test and just rely on my questionnaire and response to supplements – because of the false negatives I often see.
Here is the recent pyroluria article that has the questionnaire and other info https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/pyroluria-social-anxiety-introversion/
We didn’t talk about pyroluria in this interview but many people with low or high histamine (whole blood) have pyroluria and MTHFR is common with pyroluria too
Trudy
I was taking Methylfolate to help with depression as antidepressants did NOT help. My depression was immediately relieved. After about a year, the side effect I experience is SEVERE JAW CLENCHING when I fall asleep. Severe enough to crack a tooth and all my gums hurt. I’m still trying to find out my proper dosage. Even 1,000 mcg per week seems to set me off now.
Looking for answers, especially since many naturopaths do not have enough training in this. I just need to get rid of this severe jaw clenching during sleep.
Pamela
Good to hear your depression was relieved. I have not heard of this effect but would look into low serotonin or low GABA (https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxiety-targeted-individual-amino-acid-supplement/) or possibly low magnesium?
I’m hoping Dr Lynch may be able to shed some light on this too
Trudy
Pamela – do you have amalgams or crowns?
Yes and a history of broken jaw age 11.
I have his theory about most jaw clenching and grinding that I have never heard of anywhere else.
It is similar to when you have a splinter and your body tries to get rid of it and heal.
When you have amalgams/silver fillings cemented into your teeth they are toxic. Some of the mercury vaporizes but the majority of it is stuck to your tooth (and the rest of your body through your meridiens) Clenching and grinding may be your bodies attempt to get the filling out (and possibly the cement which you may also be highly reactive).
After holistic amalgam and crown removal last year, I immediately stopped clenching.
If it’s helpful, in a few weeks I will have that experience and how I detoxed at http://www.BeGutsy.com
Could the depression be related to head injury (you mentioned a broken jaw) as Daniel Amen discussed this major cause of depression and neuro disfunction?
I had an aha listening to his talk w/r/t my brother who had significant depression and anxiety as a child/adolescent/and young adult. He had a significant, life threatening injury to his head at 18 mos old. No one has ever connected those dots before.
Lisa, that’s a fascinating theory. I have 11 amalgams and I’m a big clencher. I’ve always assumed that it was stress/anxiety/type A issues. I have broken a tooth.
Thanks, Susan. After my first crown I started clenching so much that I cracked another tooth a year later. The good news is that my health has improved ten fold after my Total Dental Restoration (TDR). My teeth and gums are no longer sensitive or bleed.
I also think it’s the other way around – the mercury caused the stress/anxiety/type A…
Wearing a plastic guard on teeth may protect them. I chew on my plastic retainer at night…not trying to, but do. Mercury can lower oxygen in the brain/body. Hair tests show good minerals/heavy metals. I had 10 mercury fillings removed and later EDTA/DMPS IV chelations which helped me detox the heavy metals. Far Infrared Sauna may help people sweat out chemicals/heavy metals/yeast/bacteria. Raising oxygen in my brain by the Celiac help..no gluten/dairy/soy/sugar/GMO…taking vitamins/good oils/minerals…probiotic..LDN..detoxing helps mydepression/anxiety/no sleep/panic/obsessing/suicidal thoughts. Best wishes.
Hello,
Wondering about methylfolate & brain injury (concussion) with someone who has comt158 x2, mthfr677x1, numerous x1 GADs. Feeling a very slow & sluggish brain after a concussion last month. Difficulty concentrating for very long.
Thank you.
I’m hoping Dr Lynch can come and comment
Fish oil 2000mg may help concussions. Blueberries/parsley/lecithin helps my brain and Celiac help. See my comment to Chris. Best wishes.
Trudy,
I think my comment about Dr. Lynch and histamine got lost.
I thanked you for bringing up the question about testing histamine for over-and under-methylation. That test was used on me, and there was no positive outcome from the process.
I also appreciated Dr. Lynch’s comment about the complexity of this, especially for those of us who are chronically ill and have a multitude of symptoms. I can’t tell what causes side effects, and I believe the message I got was — don’t try to use methylfolate in such a situation. I appreciate Dr. Lynch’s honesty and sincerity.
If my misinterpreted what he said, please let me know. I have no practitioner who understands all this, including the ones who tested me.
Thanks.
This video library that includes William Walsh and 2 Doctor’s that worked at the original Pfieffer Center helped me a lot. My histamine tested high and I eat a low folate diet and do not take folate supplements. http://www.mensahmedical.com/videolibrary.html.
Lisa
Thanks for sharing the video and your results. May I ask what high histamine/histadelia symptoms you have found are improved on this protocol? and what your low folate diet looks like?
Trudy
I indirectly reduced folate foods by first eliminating nightshade foods in 2005,reduced salicylate, etc. and ate few foods beginning in 2010, then in 2013 after trying to reintroduce foods using low fructose then FODMAP principles discovered the oxalate connection in 2014. I drink only water, eat farm fresh, not soy fed turkey and chicken cooked in a pressure cooker to make low amine broth, currently only occasional grass fed beef, salt is the only seasoning, goat butter, 2 oz green or red leaf lettuce juice, choko/chayote or kabocha squash, rutabaga, sprouted pardina or crimson lentils, sprouted peas, processed in a Nutribullet since I have motility issues. I use Enzymedica digestive enzymes and some other supplements using a pendulum as a guide. I don’t use salicylate on my skin since I follow Dr. St. Amand’s guaifenesin treatment for fibromyalgia and use emu oil topically for Omega’s instead of eve primrose oil and use grass fed beef tallow soap. My health challenges are complex and lifelong and many symptoms improved looking at Yasmina’s list but I do still have sensory processing challenges, multiple chemical sensitivities, and intermittent muscle dysfunction depending on activity. I am 51 and haven’t been able to work for a few years gradually getting worse in 2008 using a gas stove and 1968 mobile home furnace. I was diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder this year and fibromyalgia in 1995 and getting the 23 and me test helped make sense of it and I am grateful for your help and many others to continue to improve. I think GABA also helped me and I hope you know about Datis Kharrazian’s theory that GABA crosses the blood brain barrier in people that have a leaky brain. https://digestionsessions.com/dr-datis-kharrazian/.
I am eliminating lentils and reducing peas to further reduce folate foods. Hopefully I will soon successfully reintroduce other foods. I thought you may like to read Debbie McQueen’s story of how her health improved by among other things, identifying her folate sensitivity. http://www.mthfrheds.com/.
I don’t know my intracellular folate levels but my blood folate was as high as Debbie McQueen’s twice since 2011. A quote from: http://www.mthfrheds.com/ “After restricting folic acid (Lisa’s note – I believe any folate) intake, my blood folate level dropped to below normal range. In sync, my pain and disability dramatically improved despite the lingering intracellular deficiency. This suggests the symptoms that improved or resolved were related to accumulation of folate in the blood rather than the folate deficiency.”
Will you please post a link to the methylfolate lozenges Dr. Lynch makes or have him comment? (I looked at his website and didn’t see any there and couldn’t get the name he said during the interview to search for it.)
Lozenges usually have a lot of sugar and other unfriendly ingredients so it would be great to know what Dr. Lynch choses to put in his product and why?
yes I’ll be doing that
Great talk from Dr Lynch. Thank you. Yet I was really surprised to not hear any mention of vitamin B2 from him with regards to side effects. So many people are deficient in B2, here in the UK the Scientific Advisory Commission for Nutrition admit it is the case yet do nothing about it. I got into a mess when upping my intake of B12 and methylfolate and it partly seemed to be down to not having enough B2 to work as a co-factor as well as perform its other processes.
This article is from 2003 but links to lots of good research about it.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/77/6/1352.full
Hi Tam
Glad you enjoyed and thanks so much for sharing this resource. It’s great!
I would say it was likely an oversight as we always recommend a B complex when doing individual B vitamins. Also we all do these interviews and then think “dang I forgot to mention xyz” – there is only so much we can cover in the time we have together. BTW, B2 does get mentioned in his blog http://mthfr.net/preventing-methylfolate-side-effects/2014/11/26/
Trudy
Thanks Trudy. B2 is such a vital vitamin and so easily forgotten for some reason. I can really recommend looking into the work on it. People who give up dairy (or use depleted, mass-produced dairy) and yeast can easily get depleted if that’s where their body has been used to getting it from. I’m not sure about current contraceptive preparations but the early versions of the pill definitely depleted B2 and I believe contributed to a lot of poor health in women. The work of Henry Foy in the 1960s on riboflavin deficient baboons is fascinating (although difficult from a moral standpoint). I wonder if the prevalence of low level B2 deficiency, coupled with a messed up microbiome, is contributing to the growth of bowel disease in children.
Thank you again for the wonderful summit. I came to it via Dr Lynch’s site and have loved all of the wide-ranging, inclusive discussions.
thanks for this additional information – I’ll be digging deeper for sure
and yes Dr Lynch’s site is a wealth of information!
Lynne Stonecipher Wood · Black Hills State University
(I am reposting this comment from the other page per Trudy’s request below. Add on: The histamine test was blood through Lab Corp, so I guess that means whole blood. My level was 61.
I have been tested many times for lyme with no definitive conclusion, just a past bartonella co-infection and an old Epstein Barr.
I have done 23andMe and Genetic Genie.)
Original post:
Trudy: Thanks for bringing up the histamine issues with Dr. Lynch. This was the Biggest Gem for me as I have been through all the testing with Mensah Medical who are proteges of Dr. Walsh. They use the histamine test as the criteria for over and under methylation as you discussed, and that is the end of it. They do not look at any other genetic indicators. And I am chronically ill, so Dr. Lynch’s comments at the end of his interview told me I can’t deal with my two 1298s because of all the other complicating factors. I have taken methylfolate in the past, and I can’t tell what is causing what so nailing down a side effect is like spitting in the wind. : )
Thanks so much for being on the top of the questions and to Dr. Lynch for his honesty, sincerity, and knowledge, including his comment that anything he wrote before 2011 is out of date.
Nickan DRebekah Burks: Thank-you so much Trudy for bringing up the over and under methylating topic!! It’s gonna start opening doors, and discussions! Woo hoo! Can’t wait for the day Lynch and Walsh are able to come together on this topic! Curious to learn more about it. Mostly because I know a lot of us feel awful, and are constantly looking for answers. We wanna feel better!
Thanks Lynne (I cleaned up the posted comment a bit) – I’m sorry to hear you’re so ill – Lyme is so challenging
I’m hoping Dr Lynch can come and comment and see this feedback – and will also invite Dr Walsh.
You can’t assume it was whole blood histamine. If it was done at Labcorp and not specified it was likely serum.
Trudy
If you have bartonella co-infection and an old Epstein Barr then you probably have Lyme. Zyto scan/electrodermal testing may help. http://www.creatingbalancedhealth.com may help you test/answer health questions by electrodermal testing. I had her test me and her homeopathetic help and herbs helped me. Helping my adrenals helped my immune system and Celiac help.
I have Lyme. I need Celiac help which helps my immune system….No gluten/dairy/soy/sugar/GMO…vitamins/good oils/probiotic…LDN..detoxing to be well. LDN and herbs for Lyme help me. Adrenal help helps the immune system. I take MTHF folate with no problem. Lyme itself may cause headaches. I learned by trial and error what I needed. Electrodermal testing also helps me know what may work for me. My comment to Chris is my short version of my Celiac protocol. For Lyme…Teasel/Banderol/garlic/oil of oregano/AL complex/ Artemisia and clove, Far Infrared Sauna which helps kill Lyme etc and detox…then strong probiotics help. The electrodermal person gave me Homeopathic drops that help also. Best wishes. –
Thank you so much for this great interview!
About 20′ into the interview Dr. Lynch mentions a case where someone takes up to 50mg of methylfolate a day, saying that he thinks receptors in the brain might be blocking the intake of the folate and that addressing gut issues might be key.
I’d be delighted to learn more about this condition and the approach Dr. Lynch would suggest as I’m taking between 20 and 30mg of methylfolate myself in divided doses over the course of the day to stabilize my condition of ME/CFS. When I reduce this dose, I develop symptoms like a runny nose within a few hours and rashes, angular cheilitis, canker sores and other inflammations within 1-3 days. I also take 10mg of sublingual methylcobalamin daily and 40-50mg of adenosylcobalamin once weekly (alongside other supplements that I found to be critical). I do have some genetic mutations in the methylation pathways and deal with nitro and oxidative stress and hence mitochondrial damage, lots of food intolerances and am already on a very clean diet. Urine amino acid tests are showing very low amino acid and ammonia levels hinting to malabsorption. Nevertheless, I’m already doing much, much better than a year ago when I first learned about genetic mutations and their influence on methylation and started specifically titrating and combining supplements to address these issues and I’m convinced I can recover much further and live a more or less symptom free life again.
Sure enough I would love to get off the high dose of methylfolate if I knew how to systematically address the obvious receptor and malabsorption problem and tackle the issues more upstream.
Do you have any suggestion for me?
I’d love to hear Dr.Lynch’s insight.
Thank you both for your invaluable and tremendously helpful work,
Axel
Ridges on the fingernails may mean low mineral absorption. Gluten may hurt most people. I eat no gluten/dairy/soy/sugar/GMO…take vitamins/good oils/minerals…probiotic…LDN..detoxing. Antibiotics may hurt the mitochondria. I only got canker sores when I got gluten contamination. Best wishes.
Is there any way to ask Dr. Lynch to comment on specific question about dosage?
I have been taking Deplin 15 mg for MTHFR and now am very confused by his presentation if this could actually be worsening depression /anxiety (which is defintely a problem) instead of helping. Also – are you recommending a different form of methylfolate instead of Deplin? Thanks so much for any help!
Lisa – I’m hoping Dr Lynch can come and comment
My 2 cents – I don’t like Deplin due to all the filers/colors. And as you heard Dr Lynch say, there is no set amount for anyone, and it can vary on a daily basis (plus it may be too much some days and not enough other days)
The drug version of folate is full of colors/bad things. The supplement is cheap and healthier and maybe a better dose.
Raising oxygen in my brain by the Celiac help..no gluten/dairy/soy/sugar/GMO…taking vitamins/good oils/minerals…probiotic..LDN..detoxing helps mydepression/anxiety/no sleep/panic/obsessing/suicidal thoughts. Best wishes.
Hello Trudy & Ben ,
Thanks for this summit and for your high level of integrity and obvious passion for helping empower us to get well!
I am not sure if it’s too late to get a question answered, but no harm in trying! I have high Vit B12 (1645) in blood testing and low energy. Is there a form of vitamin B that would help B12 get utilized?
Thank you again,
Karaina
Blood tests for Vit B12/Mg/Vit A, TSH/Celiac/Lyme etc may not work on blood tests. Vit B12 looked high on a blood test, but I was crashing/low in it. It said 2000 on the test. Taking spirulina/chorella which are analogs of Vit B12 may let it look higher and may not work like the animal kind of Vit B12. I take a daily Vit B12 methylcobalamin shot now 2500mcg. Low energy can be due to gluten. When I stopped gluten I had 1000X more energy in two weeks when my intestines started to absorb nutrients again. Gluten/GMO corn/antibiotic/Lyme/Chemo etc may hurt the gut lining so nutrients don’t absorb. Gluten may hurt the stomach cells that make HCl and intrinsic factor to carry Vit B12 into the intestines. I take Intrinsic factor/Vit B12 methylcobalamin/folate or Hydroxo under the tongue kind of Vit B12 and a daily Vit B12 methylcobalamin shot. B vitamins are water soluble can rinse out of the body. My comment to Chris shows my short version of Celiac help. Best wishes.
You need folate to work with the B12. Also B2 is essential.
I tested positive for 1 copy of MTHFR C677T.
I have tried to get my family to get tested – especially my mother who has had two heart attacks in the last 2 years, and was diagnosed with Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy this past fall.
I felt it might be important for my mom to be tested for MTHFR and for her to know if she should avoid folic acid, but the family does not want to do it. They were told by a genetic counselor at Johns Hopkins that it was not important and that she should not be tested. (I have included the email from this counselor at the end of my comment.)
How is it possible that many practitioners say MTHFR is significant and taking folic acid can mean that we don’t get enough folate, but these genetic specialists at John’s Hopkin’s say it is not significant and someone with serious heart problems does not need to consider MTHFR or their folate intake? I am confused.
Can you and Dr. Lymch comment, Please. Here is the email I got from the genetics counselor:
Dear Joanna,
I met with your mother and sister today to discuss genetic testing for hypertrophic cardiomyopathy and the MTHFR variant that was identified in you.
As you may know, variants in the MTHFR gene are very common in the general population–around 30% have a variant. Because it is so common, it is not surprising that the variants are associated with health problems. However, the scientific literature does not show a cause and effect relationship. Yes, there are some studies that show an increased risk for miscarriage, hyperhomocystinuria, stroke, cancer, and blood clots, but there are more robust studies showing the variants do not cause disease. The American College of Medical Genetics (ACMG) published guidelines in 2013 saying genetic testing for MTHFR variants should not be performed.
Our center follows these guidelines. Your mother did not have this genetic testing.
Please let me know if you have any questions. I have attached a copy of the ACMG guidelines.
Emily Brown, MGC, CGC
Genetic Counselor
Johns Hopkins Hospital
Center for Inherited Heart Disease
600 N. Wolfe Street, Blalock 570
Baltimore, MD 21287
She can get folate in food, but folic acid taken with food may block the folate from working. I test ok to use folic acid, but MTHF folate helps me more…gave me circulation in my toes.
People can get folate in food, but folic acid taken with food may block the folate from working. I test ok to use folic acid, but MTHF folate helps me more…gave me circulation in my toes.
I have had high B12 for years.
My doc wanted me to stop taking B12, but I wonder if I’m not absorbing it. (have leaky gut)
Hear another doc say that those with MTHFR (I have C677T) may need lithium to absorb and use B12,
So I took lithium for months and switched to adenosylB12 and hydroxyB12 (sublingual).
When I got retested my B12 is still very high.
Any ideas about this??
Your Vit B12 may not be high..maybe crashing if you did not take any Vit B12. Blood tests may not work for Vit B12/Mg and much more. Gluten/GMO corn may cause leaky gut and more. No gluten/dairy/soy/sugar/GMO…vitamins/good oils/minerals…LDN..detoxing help me and a daily Vit B12 methylcobalamin shot. I was crashing in Vit B12, but tests said 2000. Analogs of Vit B12 in spirulina/chorella and more may block Vit B12 and not work the same, but make the test look high. Lithium orotate help me. Hair tests/Genova tests help me. Hidden gluten may hurt in any food with a label/certified gluten free food/nuts not sold in the shell/meat basting/some spices etc..Best wishes.
Dr. Lynch is suggesting niacin for methylfolate side effects.
I’ve been told niacin can be hard on the liver and my liver is pretty reactive. do you feel niacin is safe for liver function?
Time release niacin may hurt the liver. I can’t take niacin..I flush too much, but can take it in a multiple. Now brand liver detox/milk thistle/alpha lipoic acid, Vit C, glutathione, lecithin and more may help the liver. MTHF folate is ok for me. No gluten may help the liver and much more. See my other comments. Best wishes.
Wendy,
I take 100mg of niacin and have a very intense reaction. I get very flushed and have a rash all over with a burning sensation. I thought it was normal. It’s a bit lessened if I take the niacin with food. Should I take 1/2 and work up? Any suggestions aprreciated. I’m overwhelmed with trying to figure out why I have kept feeling worse for 15-20 years, thinking initially it was Hasimoto’s, then Adrenal Fatigue and now A1298C++. It sounds like you stopped the niacin because of intense flushing.
Yes…I only get niacin in my multiple due to strong flushing. Taking niacin on an empty stomach and then my Ca drink made more Ca go into my cells since I think the niacin made stomach acid stronger. Too much Ca into cells is not good. I got very sick, could not call 911…then threw it up outside my back door and felt better instantly. It was scary. Some people work up the dose. Some people may not need it as much..maybe get enough from food. I don’t think my brain/body is missing the niacin. I take a B complex 50 or a coenzymated B vitamins that has niacin and no problem, but alone it hurt me. Gluten may hurt thyroid/adrenals…all glands. I also need bioidentical hormones…estriol/progesterone/testosterone. Progesterone may help adrenals and Vit C. Liposomal Vit C and liposomal glutathione…Seeking health brand help me.
This is the short version of what I do:
No gluten/dairy/soy/sugar/GMO and vitamins/good oils, LDN and detoxing help me. Vit D3 5000IU, zinc 50mg if detoxing, 2000mg fish oil , 20000mg evening primrose oil. 2000 mg lecithin, Phosphatidylserine/DMAE, krill oil, CLA, Coenzyme Q10, Rhodiola, Mg citrate 400mg, Vit C, 5000mcg of biotin, Nature’s Plus- Source of life multiple, HCl and enzymes with meals, dairy free probiotic, Vit B12 methylcobalamin shot/spray/under the tongue kind/intrinsic factor kind, MTHF folate, coenyzme Q10, rhodiola, may help brain/body/thyroid/depression/immune system and more. Gluten is wheat/barley/rye..oats may act like gluten with avenin. GMO corn/soy/canola oil may hurt. Amour thyroid maybe needed since gluten may made antibodies to the thyroid. Coenzymated B vitamins far from synthetic kind make make me calm.
Sunlight (helps the immune system and helps to heal the gut lining),exercise, organic food, good water..not tap water, cooking by scratch pure food….. no food in a box/bag/premade/label/restaurant which may help avoid hidden gluten. Certified gluten free food may have 20ppm of gluten…too much. Nuts not sold in the shell/meat basting/some spices may have hidden gluten and lotion/make up etc. One restaurant cooks special for me…rice/veg/tea/extra mushrooms (no meat since the woks may have MSG/gluten in them).
EDTA/DMPS IV chelations from an Alternative doctor, 600mg of cilantro, organic sulfur, Now brand- Detox support, Far Infrared Sauna and more may help detox. Hair tests show good minerals and heavy metals. Heavy metals can block thyroid and other chemical reactions in the body/brain.
LDN may help block hidden gluten/heal the gut lining and help the immune system, but the Celiac diet is still needed. 100% no gluten..no hidden or microscopic gluten may help. Cutting back on gluten or cheating by eating gluten hurts the immune system. It may take 1 1/2 months to heal the gut lining after getting hidden gluten.
Amour thyroid has some T3 and Calcitonin. Synthroid is only T4..may not convert to T3. Zn/Se/enough iron/strong probiotic may help convert T4 to T3 for thyroid.
Alternative doctors/chiropractors/acupuncturists and more may help with health/vitamins etc.
Best wishes.
Doctoryourself.com, look up niacin sectiond. Refer to Dr.Hoffer and work with schizophrenia and niacin. Niacinamide should work without causing a flush like niacin. Niacin may Increase liver enzymes, but it doesn’t necessarily mean its causing liver toxicity. Gram doses have been taken safely by thousands of mental health patients. Refer to Dr. Walsh and his work with methylation.
Niacin in HIGH doses can harm the liver – and prolonged periods of time.
We’re talking gram doses.
50 mg of niacin every 30 minutes is not going to harm the liver.
Flushing is fine. While it isnt comfortable, it’s not bad for you. One should stop flushing after a few days of taking the niacin at the same dose.
Hello Trudy and Dr Lynch,
I enjoyed listening to you on summit. Well done!
As a health professional who has studied and researched functional medicine since 1980’s, I have a question, that is hopefully thought provoking and helps answer a contraindicated answer regarding methylation.
I have Histadalia.
I also have C677T MTHFR gene.
My functional medicine practitioner placed me on 4mg methylfolate.
I agree with Carl Pfeiffer that folate and synthetic folic acid are very bad for Histadaliacs and MTHFR gene carriers as we can’t convert (methylate) these.
BUT -I believe there are alternatives!
Glucosamine salt and Methyltetrahydrofolate.
These sources of folate do not require “conversion” (methylation) – so is well tolerated by MTHFR carriers.
I wonder if the same is true for Histamine.
I’m curious to what Carl Pfeiffer would say about these glucosamine salts, methylfolate and Methyltetrahydrofolate.
Could I get your feedback Dr Lynch…
I think it’s important to acknowledge these differences.
As the rest of us under methylated need hope… and to understand that Glucosamine Salt and Methyltetrahydrofolate are safe alternatives and beneficial to use.
This is one area that needs further research.
Keep sharing the love Trudy!!
No response required.
But my thinking cap is on and I needed to share
Hi there –
I agree with you.
Folic acid is not good for MANY reasons –
Folic acid not good for those with high histamine is that it interferes with methylation. Folic acid needs to be methylated which further reduces the methyl group in the system.
Methylfolate is methylated already and can get right to work helping lower histamine – and it can and does especially in combination with vitamin B12 as methylcobalamin.
Here is proof why folic acid is not good –
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWFPRI6X7P4
While doing a websearch on histamine and MTHFR found one that listed homocysteine – http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/78/1/7.full. Another really interesting (lost link) as thought it was trying to say people with high B12(or maybe it was MB23) had more illnesses, which it listed types of.
Since some of the verbal list Dr Lynch gave sounded like histamine reactions (or leukotrine/cytokine…) maybe Mfolate &or MB12 can reduce or increase histamine reactions?
Lynn
I’m not clear if you have a question. This paper discusses homocysteine and MMA as markers for low B12/folate
Genova’s NutrEval does Not test for folate.
With regards to Ben Lynch’s MTHFR presentation, as you may recall, I had posted that Genova’s NutrEval micronutrient testing had in their written report for folate as “folic acid”.
You posted (and I thought too) that it must have been a mistake, as they evaluate for folate.
It turns out that Genova’s NutriEval does **not** do any cell absorption testing for folate. They test for folic acid,not folate.
Further, they intermixed the two terms in the written lab report, which confused me and my functional medicine provider.
Nor do they test for magnesium cellular absorption!
It made me wonder about the test results for the other micronutrients as well, especially B12 and B6 — as Genova wrote via color coding in the report that I was seriously deficient in those areas, and marginally deficient for Magnesium.
My functional medicine provider has since ordered MMA blood test to detect B12 deficiency from the cells, as you know regular B12 tests only what is in the blood stream.
Our local lab did the RBC folate and RBC magnesium (tests for cell absorption), and it turned out that I was a bit above normal high for folate! and my magnesium was normal.
These results were contrary to Genova’s NutrEval.
Would you or Dr. Lynch be able to recommend what kind of testing for B6 then for cell absorption? What other lab can be used? Not Genova, obviously.
My local lab does not do all the vitamins nor the amino acids for cellular absorption. Fortunately, they could for the above ones mentioned.
I was disheartened by the customer service protocol of Genova. They refused to tell me if they tested for folic acid or for folate, or to even find out, as they can only tell it to a doctor, not the client/patient!
I called their Billing –as of course I am paying for services — with expectation that cell absorption is being done, especially for those critical ones. They too said that they cannot talk about it as they are not medical people to tell me what I paid for!
Again, only my doctor talking to their doctor can find out. It took a while from my doctor to get an appointment to simply ask:
are you testing folate cell absorption or is it indeed folic acid? Folic acid and not for cell absorption…was the response. Ditto for magnesium;no cell absorption. The doctor forgot to ask about all the vitamins.
I will never use Genova again. I lost confidence in what they are testing and it is difficult to ascertain, unless you ask your busy doctor to make an appointment with Genova’s lab doctors to discuss it. And thankfully, my doctor did not charge me for the effort to get an appointment (it was an effort with Genova) and the time to discuss my case and go over my chart again.
Hope this posting helps others. Not everyone has the time to inquire, or insurance or money for these tests. I have heterozygous MTHFR, with some clinical expression. But don’t know what to think with an elevated folate (2 points above normal range) and elevated homocysteine (12.8). Hopefully the MMA will shed some light. If not, not sure how to bring the Folate down to normal, or homocysteine if my B12/MMA shows no deficiency.
Thanks for the long read. Thank you Trudy. Glad your mom is doing better!
I like Genvoa tests, but testing inside the cell is different. Yes..they may test for folic acid. Electrodermal testing or muscle testing may help you figure out if a supplement may help and how your body is working. I like hair tests for minerals/heavy metals. Not eating gluten/fixing low minerals and detoxing heavy metal etc. helps my health. Best wishes.
Christie, I am not sure if you ever got answers to your questions or if you will see my reply, but…. Your issues sound very familiar! In my experience and from my research, the CBS mutation needs to be dealt with first before taking any methylfolate. Epsom salts are full of sulfate so they can cause trouble, as can other supplements, medicines, and foods that have sulfate, sulfite, and sulfa. There is a list of foods high in thiol that should be avoided until the sulfate issue is resolved. Hydroxocobalamin is also a better bet than methyl-B12 until the sulfur levels are under control. For a CBS protocol and very detailed explanation of methylation, check out heartfixer.com
Is methylfolate the same thing as folate? Example: If I did not want to rely on the methylfolate supplement or risk side effects (I am heterozygous 677 and 1298), could I just eat several servings of fresh leafy greens per day? Or is the methylfolate supplement something different? I am already currently taking methylcobalamin and have noticed a significant positive difference but still have trouble with anxiety flaring up.
SW
Methyfolate is one form of folate. With the MTHFR mutations you may not need any supplementation (if the genes are not expressing or causing issues) or may do fine with 200-400mcg or may need 1000mcg every 2nd or 3rd day or when you need better brain function (per Dr Ben Lynch). Methyfolate is even made as high as 10mg and some people need this and some feel awful on this much.
Having a foundation of fresh leafy greens is a great start and then going from there.
MTHF is folate..better than folic acid which is synthetic. Vit B12 methylocobalamin shot and folate work together to help a person. I need no gluten/hidden gluten/dairy/soy/sugar/GMO…vitamins/good oils/minerals…probiotic…LDN..detoxing to be ok and taking Vit B12 methylocobalamin shot/MTHF folate, HCl and enyzmes with meals and much more. See my comment to Chris. Best wishes.
I’m not sure what to do. I have high glutamate and high cortisol at night. I also have high homocysteine levels. My psychiatrist told me I needed to take the deplin. He did a cheek swab test from the gene sight company. I have really bad anxiety. I started seeing an Osteopathic doc and she did some of the tests for me. She is telling me to take a B12 methylcobalamin supplement that also has folate as quatrefolic 6(s)-5-methyltetrahydrofolic acid, glucosamine salt 800mcg. The B12 is 5000 mcg. Also she wants me to take a B complex that has some B vitamins in it that are high doses. I guess you could say it’s a B-50 B complex supplement a mid range dose. It also contains 200mcg as calcium folinate and 200 mcg as L-5- methyltetrahydrofolate. The B complex is a capsule and she wants me to break it open and take half. Also I forgot to mention the B12 with methyltetrahydrofolate she says to take half of it. She wants me to start slow. Do you think this low dosage will cause any side effects with the folate? I also take vit D and fish oil.
Those are not low doses, even broken in half. Those are extremely high doses, particularly every day. If you don’t tolerate methylfolate, this could make you extremely ill and destabilize your psych state.
Is your doctor in New York by any chance? This protocol sounds like the doctor who harmed me with methylfolate and methylcobalamin.
I went from fatigued and anxious but otherwise myself, to psychotic, confused, full-body neuropathy, hair loss, cystic acne, terrible joint and muscle pain, diarrhea, itching, hallucinations, on similar doses. I had a stay in the hospital, lost my memory, and two years later am still trying to recover.
I hope those doses have not harmed you or you’ve stopped them early.
I’m sorry to hear you had such a terrible experience
Deplin has bad colors/fillers etc and it is the same as MTHF you can get on Amazon. They want to make money selling supplements with a drug name. There supplement is not better than the other cheaper kind. Coenyzmated B vitamins on Amazon are good…can take twice a day since they are water soluble. Alternative doctors are great help. I take Osteoprocare for my dairy. Best wishes.
This is what I do…short version:
No gluten/dairy/soy/sugar/GMO and vitamins/good oils, LDN and detoxing help me. Vit D3 5000IU, zinc 50mg if detoxing, 2000mg fish oil , 20000mg evening primrose oil. 2000 mg lecithin, Phosphatidylserine/DMAE, krill oil, CLA, Coenzyme Q10, Rhodiola, Mg citrate 400mg, Vit C, 5000mcg of biotin, Nature’s Plus- Source of life multiple, HCl and enzymes with meals, dairy free probiotic, Vit B12 methylcobalamin shot/spray/under the tongue kind/intrinsic factor kind, MTHF folate, coenyzme Q10, rhodiola, may help brain/body/thyroid/depression/immune system and more. Gluten is wheat/barley/rye..oats may act like gluten with avenin. GMO corn/soy/canola oil may hurt. Amour thyroid maybe needed since gluten may made antibodies to the thyroid. Coenzymated B vitamins far from synthetic kind make make me calm.
Sunlight (helps the immune system and helps to heal the gut lining),exercise, organic food, good water..not tap water, cooking by scratch pure food….. no food in a box/bag/premade/label/restaurant which may help avoid hidden gluten. Certified gluten free food may have 20ppm of gluten…too much. Nuts not sold in the shell/meat basting/some spices may have hidden gluten and lotion/make up etc. One restaurant cooks special for me…rice/veg/tea/extra mushrooms (no meat since the woks may have MSG/gluten in them).
EDTA/DMPS IV chelations from an Alternative doctor, 600mg of cilantro, organic sulfur, Now brand- Detox support, Far Infrared Sauna and more may help detox. Hair tests show good minerals and heavy metals. Heavy metals can block thyroid and other chemical reactions in the body/brain.
LDN may help block hidden gluten/heal the gut lining and help the immune system, but the Celiac diet is still needed. 100% no gluten..no hidden or microscopic gluten may help. Cutting back on gluten or cheating by eating gluten hurts the immune system. It may take 1 1/2 months to heal the gut lining after getting hidden gluten.
Amour thyroid has some T3 and Calcitonin. Synthroid is only T4..may not convert to T3. Zn/Se/enough iron/strong probiotic may help convert T4 to T3 for thyroid.
Alternative doctors/chiropractors/acupuncturists and more may help with health/vitamins etc.
I agree, I would not recommend Deplin
Trudy, I’ve sent several comments but never get a reply. What am I doing wrong?
Michele
I have responded to a number of your comments on various blogs – like here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/methylation-and-anxiety-histadelia-and-histapenia/ on 3/10 and here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxious-introvert-because-of-low-zinc-and-vitamin-b6/ on 3/5/16.
You should receive an email notification when I respond
Sorry, some how I missed them. Not to good with new iPad.
Ive been giving my 8 year old son about 200mcgs of methylfolate as well as 500mcgs of methylcobalamin as he was diagnosed with vitiligo last year and I read these two nutrients can help. He has been taking these for a year and has suddenly become very anxious. This article makes me wonder if there is a link?
I am curious if there is any research being done with adding in trace amounts of lithium orotate. Please do not confuse that with lithium carbonate used in the medical community in very high doses to treat mood issues.
I have read a few research studies indicating that it can assist in stomach acid production and heard that it also assists in using b12 properly.
I understand niacin is helpful for those that react to b12 in their diet, especially from meat and eggs, and from supplements.
Having read lithium orotate has really helped those with chronic anxiety as in ptsd situations, that it assists in stomach acid issues from studies in mice, and it has been so long but also read it assists b12 in cellular infiltration, I am curious if you have done any research to see how it may be helpful for those with the sequential gene mutations that are affected by the b12 in their foods and show lab results for high levels of b12 but symptoms suggesting they are not using it well in the body or for people exhibiting the high anxiety / anger related symptoms from mthfr mutation and inefficient or non existant supplementation?
I have had success with it helping me in eliminating stomach acid issues, resolving long term anxiety and adrenaline issues and eliminating symptoms caused by too much b12 without having to ingest high levels of niacin. It also seems to normalize energy levels. This is in conjunction with a multi vitamin from seeking health which I use to address my mthfr and other gene mutations that, from what I have read, seem to occur in length with the mthfr mutations.
I would love to hear about your research into its use and
Hi Leanna –
Lithium helps balance calcium channels.
From my research, it does absolutely nothing to B12. This appears purely hypothetical in my mind.
If calcium channels are open in the brain, excitation can occur.
If one takes inositol and feels worse, perhaps lithium can help.
If one takes lithium and feels worse, perhaps inositol can help.
B12, folate, glutamate, high homocysteine, oxidative stress – all these contribute to calcium channels one way or another.
Lithium helps calm them down.
I’m very tired of unsubstantiated claims about how one thing works when it is not proven in the research.
Again, I’ve seen nothing at all about the connection between B12 and lithium in the medical research.
I’ve seen TONS about lithium and calcium channels.
Anxiety and high calcium activity in the brain are linked.
Taking lithium to reduce calcium channel activity makes sense. Finding why the calcium channels are opening makes more sense. 😉
Thank you for your input. I do not proport to claim the b12 connection, merely asking your opinion about an unsubstantiated claim i read about and if you had done any research as to the validity of this report and the other claims. Where is the cited information regarding the calcium connection that you speak of? I am interested in learning more about this and understanding b12’s role more in depth in this area. Thank you for your time. Regards.
I just read
The Anxiety Summit – How Methylfolate can make you Feel Worse and even Cause Anxiety, and What to do about it
I have been on Pristiq and Xanax Xr for many years. My husband was diagnosed with Pancreatic Cancer over two years and though he is Thank God doing fine I have been feeling depressed. So I found a new psychiatrist as we had to move to another state through all of my husbands treatments and she recommended Deplin 15. Since taking it I have felt so many horrible side effects. Tingling in my arms and legs. Joint pains. Nausea. So after one week I stopped it. It is now almost 3 weeks since I stopped it and I still have these side effects. While I am upset and nervous about it, your article at least made me feel I wasn’t hallucinating these feelings and feel it was definitely too coincidental to be anything other than the Deplin. But no where in your article does it say WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT. Maybe I missed it but how do I get rid of these side effects. I’m drinking lots of water to get it out of my system but wonder how long it takes. I have so much on my plate between my husband and mom I can’t afford to feel this way every day. How do I get this methyl folate out of my system. It’s scaring me. Any advice would be so appreciated. I hope I haven’t caused damage to my body by taking this Deplin15. I feel paranoid that it was a big mistake and it will never go away. Please help
Fran Finkelstein
Sent from my iPad
Hi Fran
Please read this article as it will help you. http://mthfr.net/methylfolate-side-effects/2012/03/01/
You will need to talk with your doctor. Deplin was too strong for you most likely. Niacin should help resolve the side effects.
hello,
i am supposed to be starting methotrexate (25 mg’s) for rheumatoid arthritis. my rheumatologist prescribed me 5 mg’s of folic acid daily.
i had no idea that folic acid is so dangerous. now i am scared. i phoned her and she said that this was basically balogna she’s very stubborn about not prescribing the methyl-form. it’s important that i take a form of folate with MTX.
also, i have suffered numerous, numerous concussions in my life & would love to take a b-complex supplement to help with cognitive & mood problems (which are getting worse – and are probably being intensified by the inflammation from the RA)… but i read that you should NOT take folic acid and other forms (methyl, folinic acid) together.
so…i want to try taking the methylated form on my own (for the MTX & for my brain health). i just don’t know what dose to take that would be equivalent to the 5 mg’s of folic acid daily. also, is there a prescription form?
i cannot afford the gene test to find out whether or not i need methylated forms. i just figure it’s healthier period, yes?
i am sorry if i come off as simple or jumbled. my brain is not very healthy.
thank you.
Mark
I would check out Dr. Ben Lynch’s site and our Anxiety Summit interviews (we done 2 – this one and this other one https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxiety-biochemical-and-genetic-predispositions/) – he is a wealth of information about folic acid vs methylfolate. I always only recommend methylfolate.
I would encourage you to find a functional medicine practitioner who can help you get to the root cause of the RA so methotrexate is not needed. Autoimmunity, gluten sensitivity/celiac disease, low omega-3s (here is a fish oil paper https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11036827), adrenal issues etc are all factors that should be considered.
What is my Snips say that I can’t take anything methyl
I am still a bit confused between methylated and l-methylated. I was prescribed 15mg Deplin 2 week ago and also weaning of Zoloft. Since I have been taking the Deplin my anxiety has been sky high and I feel like by brain cannot think. Could this be a case of too high a dose of Deplin or is it not related ?
Totally related. High dose methyfolate leads to anxiety in many people.
Visit http://www.mthfr.net and look at the most popular articles.
Read Methylfolate Side Effects.
That should help a ton.
Debbie
Yes to what Dr Lynch said. This was the topic we covered in our interview on the Anxiety Summit – we talked about too much methylfolate but it applies to too high a dose of Deplin too.
If you purchased the summit I also encourage you to go back and listen to our interview.
I have been taking L-5-methyltetrahydrofolate for months. Everything appeared to be fine until one day I started feeling anxious. Now it is kind of bad. My confusion lies in the fact that I have been on L-5-methyltetrahydrofolate for almost a year. Everything I have read, seem to point to if anxiety happens it is much sooner than 10 months.
Tinna
It can happen at any time. It may be this or may be something else. Easiest thing I do with my clients is stop it and see what happens
Do know of a major difference between Deplin and MethylPro?
Albert
Deplin contains colors and other additives so I would select a product with just methylfolate. I have not used MethyPro so can’t comment on this one
Hi Trudy, regarding methylation, and smaller amounts of methylfolate. Please also have a look at our new methylation product to help with under-methylation in particular: https://www.vitacure.me/products/methyl-plus
Thanks for sharing this link. I have not used it with clients but it looks like a good product. I have a few clients use a similar product and found the additional methyl donors were too much for them so I believe it’s very individualized.
I’d like to hear more about the form of zinc you use in the product please – zinc methionine
Zinc Methionine was chosen over Picolinate in this supplement since both are bio-available forms, but Methionine is also one of the methyl donors. And yes, this supplement is not for those who do not need additional methyl donors (it is for Histadelics – high histamine/undermethylators). Please get in touch if you are interested in this supplement for clients and want to test it. We can provide some samples if needed. We do also have the experience that too much methylfolate/B12 could make these patients depressed/worse, but a limited dose with other methyl donors and cofactors has helped. This is the exact purpose of this supplement.
I was just diagnosed with 677C and 1298A. The doctor states I would benefit from from taking a vitamin supplement with methyl folate. I also have high histamine,plasma. I’m confused because I read if you have high histamine not to take methyl folate. I’m so confused and I just want to feel better. I have been so sick. I also have low Vit B6 and B12. I don’t want to take anything that is going to make me feel worse because I already feel bad enough.
Hi, i’m new and completely clueless about MTHFR. All i know is i have both mutations but the doctor said i guess it affects me more in the brain with my neurotransmitter. He started me on Deplin 15 mg but to be honest i’m feeling beyond hungry just craving everything and very moody, angry feeling..i just feel numb like i have no emotions as if i was on an antidepressant does anyone have any clue what’s going on?? Is there something better i could be taking? I heard about something called methyl guard plus does anyone know anything about this or could recommend something for me to try? Not to mention my anxiety before taking it and after it seems worse, im very tired and cant seem to function. Feeling hopeless also have hypothyroidism and am on nature throid and have hoshimots, ever since getting on it as well i havent been the best been very tired. Help if someone can. Thanks!!
Ann
Deplin is a high amount and as Dr Lynch shares in this interview too much methylfolate can make make you feel worse. Deplin also contains some nasty ingredients which is why starting on a lower amount of methylfolate (I like Designs for Health) and increasing slowly is what I do with clients.
Hi there!
I am trying to start a prenatal to get pregnant and its making me more anxious. I already struggle with anxiety/agoraphobia but since taking Thorne Basic Prenatal my anxiety has gotten really bad to the point of a panic attack while driving. I have no idea what to do now. I want to take a prenatal while pregnant but I also do not want more anxiety symptoms. Please help me!
Tessa
Tessa
I’d suggest a consult with someone at Thorne or having a discussion with your doctor, naturopath or nutritionist. Some nutrients can make anxiety worse – like the folate or copper.
Functional tests showed that I am an undermethylator but I also have a folate deficiency! How is this possible? I have been taking a B complex that has 400mg of folate in it….some days are great but some days are truly horrible…panic attacks all day. I was also prescribed hydroxo b12 with folinic acid but am too scared to take it! I have the hetero Mthfr c677t gene….any info would be so appreciated! Of course, taking zinc and biotin also….
Hi Trudy,
I have been taking the b6 and zinc for 3 weeks now and I must say that I am a little dissapointed. I have been waiting to go to sleep and have those nice dreams and want to go back to sleep in the morning, like you mentioned in your book. Unfortunately I am still having weird and sometimes scary or very sad dreams. A lot of them revolve around losing a family member or dying myself. When I wake up I feel very anxious and have to get up and take a klonopin. I take 100 mg of b6 and 25 mg of zinc after dinner, and I’m also taking GABA and l- theanine. Do you have any thoughts as to why the b6 isn’t helping with my sleep and horrible dreams? Thanks, Michele
Mickey
I have clients start with 100mg vitamin B6 and increase based on dream recall. It’s explained in great detail in the pyroluria chapter. With B vitamins many factors need to be considered like stress, sugar consumption and meds like birth control that lower them.
Unfortunately it’s very possible that the Klonopin is playing a role in any increased anxiety.
Trudy,
Can we talk about over methylation ? I’m on klonopin and have tried the GABA , zinc and b6. Not working for me. I have talked to three of my doctors about the fact that I am over methylated and can’t take SSRI’s but the klonopin is no longer working and I’m in a state of withdrawal all the time. Having real bad dizziness problems. They all look at me like I have 3 heads, they say that they don’t have a clue about over methylation or how to treat it. They don’t even know where to send me. There are no functional doctors in my area. What does over methylation really mean?
My Doctor wants me to get on Enbrace hr. Do you know anything about this supposedly “Natural” supplement that is FDA regulated?
Brooksie
I’m not familiar with EnBrace-HR (https://www.drugs.com/pro/enbrace-hr.html) and would need to look at each ingredient in order to be able to comment further, plus know why it’s being prescribed. At first glance I can see it contains “15 mg DFE total folate.” DFE means dietary folate equivalent. 15mg of folate is a very high amount and as per this interview, can cause anxiety and insomnia.
I need help went to so many dr. The last specialist did test said i had low b6 b12 metholfolate low vit d. Severe fatigue syndrome/fibromyalgia so they started me on nadh/nac/b-6/b-12 injections 1cc 1x week. My atp levels were at 17 and mono I had years ago stayed dormant still. She said something about gene mutation oh cholesterol was 235 I’m 40 years old had gallbladder, hysterectomy, appendix. I feel horrible no energy, muscles stay in knots, nausea, dry eyes, constipation, weight gain, fluid retention, dry skin, insomnia, low heart rate, lowBP, low sugar, memory, balance etc,I just cant function at all and it seems the shots are making me more achy, but nothing else no energy
Lisa
I’m sorry to hear you’re having such a hard time. You don’t mention diet but I’d start there and consider an autoimmune diet like the one Dr. Amy Meyers writes about in her “The Autoimmune Solution.” She also has a new recipe book The Autoimmune Solution Cookbook” https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-autoimmune-solution-cookbook-by-amy-myers-md/
For insomnia and fibromyalgia I like to look at low serotonin and consider a trial of tryptophan or 5-HTP https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/fibromyalgia-tryptophan-5-htp-for-anxiety-depression-pain-and-insomnia/
Gallbladder removal can lead to insufficient bile, which leads to fat malabsorption and deficiencies in the fat soluble vitamins A,D,E and K. One can take ox bile and pancreatic lipase to increase fat absorption. Low vitamin D leads to fatigue, bone issues, mood disorders. Low A leads to dry eyes and skin.
Hi Trudy, if you have MTHFR I keep reading that it is good to take things like molybdenum, folate b12 (vitamin B complex) and COq10. What daily amount should someone with MTHFR take for each of these?
L
Having a MTHFR polymorphism does not means it’s expressing and causing issues. Methylfolate and B12 may help if it is causing issues but not everyone does need to supplement. Lifestyle changes, diet, detox, stress reduction all help so do check out Dr. Lynch’s new book “Dirty Genes” https://amzn.to/2JPlmit (my Amazon link)
I suffer from GAD and ADHD. On top of that, I started drinking a couple of years ago to self medicate (anxiety is awful). While alcohol provided temporarily relief, I was told it makes anxiety worse. I did not care and pretty soon realized I am an alcoholic. My cravings were increasing, thus I sought help and entered an intensive outpatient rehab program. Before admittance, I had to see a psychiatrist to determine if I was good candidate for an outpatient program or inpatient. The medical professionals consider the possibility of withdrawal symptoms. The psychiatrist assessed me and I was given a green light for outpatient.
I was tested for any MTHFR gene variants. The result: I have one normal allele (C677C) and the C677T allele. I was prescribed Enbrace HR (a prenatal vitamin for which you need a Rx and there are no generics) to increase my methyl-folate since a deficiency may be correlated with ADHD, anxiety (mine is sometimes debilitating), alcohol and drug addiction, and digestive problems – all of which I have. Within 2-3 days I definitely felt a difference. I took Enbrace for one month. Then this particular psychiatrist just disappeared! I have been out of the Enbrace HR for over a month now. My new psychiatrist had not even heard of it. He briefly researched it and gave me a Rx.
I have stopped drinking and intend to life a completely sober life.
Point: research Enbrace HR I truly believe it is effective for my anxiety due to that MTHFR variant.