John Dempster, ND, is interviewed on the Anxiety Summit by host of the Anxiety Summit, Trudy Scott, Food Mood Expert and Nutritionist, author of The Antianxiety Food Solution.
Anxiety and heavy metals: chelation of mercury and lead
- The connection between toxic metals (mercury and lead) and anxiety
- How to effectively measure toxic metals with a provoked urine challenge
- The do’s and don’ts of chelation and watching for mineral depletion
- A bipolar/anxiety case study
Here are some gems from our interview:
So I kind of want to shed some light on some of these areas and how it can affect anxiety directly. One of the big areas is mercury itself is a neurotoxin. So how does that impact our biochemistry and our physiology? Well what it’s going to do it’s going to start to disrupt on an endocrine and a neurotransmitter level some of our pathways. And one of the big pathways is actually the glutamate connection and the glutamate pathway. And glutamate is something that’s known as an excitatory neurotransmitter and this is something that if we have too much of it or it’s not being reuptake properly in our synapses we start to exhibit different types of symptoms of anxiety. And of course that’s just one possible trigger for anxiety.
….to speak of mercury specifically amalgams are a source. Silver amalgam fillings are a source of metal, metal mercury. But we are also seeing that there are trace amounts in certain vaccinations. There are trace amounts in certain food groups such as fish. And this may not come as a surprise to many of you listeners but it is still a problem and we’re still seeing people – high amounts of mercury come into my clinic pretty much every day that are continuing to be exposed to these levels. And there are a number of other different possible source that are on a smaller scale. We might actually be breathing it in which is scary but depending on where you live in the world we may be exposed to some industrial sources of mercury as well. But the biggest ones that we can take charge of immediately are what’s in our mouth, what’s in our food and what goes in or on our body.
In this sample of young adults with low levels of lead exposure, higher blood lead was associated with increased odds of major depression and panic disorder. Exposure to lead at levels generally considered safe could result in adverse mental health outcomes.
Dr. Dempster describes the chelator DMSA as a magnet:
DMSA is a very safe but effective way of dragging metals out of the body. And what we want to do is when we provoke that we actually drag this compound through our tissues. Not just our bloodstream. It goes through – it kind of rinses through our tissues and acts as a magnet and it draws these metals out at the other end that we can collect.
Here are some studies on heavy metals and chelation with DMSA:
- DMSA a non-toxic water soluble treatment for heavy metal toxicity
- Chelation therapy in intoxications with mercury, lead and copper
- Efficacy of DMSA Therapy in a Sample of Arab Children with Autistic Spectrum Disorder.
Here is information on the Mental Wellness Summit that Dr. Dempster and Ross McKenzie co-hosted
And Ross McKenzie’s incredible movie Bipolarized
Here is the Wellness Without Limits ebook
If you are not already registered for the Anxiety Summit you can get live access to the speakers of the day here: www.theAnxietySummit.com
Missed this interview or can’t listen live? Or want this and the other great interviews for your learning library? Purchase the MP3s or MP3s + transcripts and listen when it suits you.
You can find your purchasing options here.: Anxiety Summit Season 1, Anxiety Summit Season 2, Anxiety Summit Season 3, and Anxiety Summit Season 4.
Thanks for including participants from around the world in your summit! There are so many things that I am learning.
Dr. Dempster is from Toronto, which is about an hour away from my home in Brampton.
I also was able to watch the full movie Bipolarized, which was aired on the Global Network here in Canada, as a Documentary. There were a lot of eye opening moments! Especially since the original Bipolar diagnosis, and the cookie cutter approach to the treatment, may not have been correct for the start!
Trudy, thank you again for your summit. I listen to many as a health coach, and your notes are super informative for every speaker that you bring on. Your questions to your interviewees ensure that the message truly comes across. And the new information that the speakers have brought to this summit has been amazing… I have so many notes!
Namaste,
Lucie
Lucie
Thanks for the great feedback and very kind words!
Is there a place in website of speaker that discusses more about provoked urine test or other lab tests that is more reliable for heavy metal presence in any part of the body? I used to have hair analysis not just for metals test but if there is a more comprehensive test for all metals in all parts of the body, not just blood, then do US MDs or NDs do that? I am using a liquid mineral with zeolite volcanic mineral for removing heavy metals that was charged with scalar energy (healing structure from nature) & a proprietary method for reducing size of molecules by MD in So.East Asia called quantum or vortex potentiation. Easily absorbed in cells so fast results. I used it for 3 days within a week in more doses based on muscle tests & skin cut naturally opened in upper thigh in leg releasing white substance then grey substances that look like amalgam color.Has John used zeolite in liquid form for heavy metals detox & how effective is it?
Trina
I’m going to have Dr. Dempster come and comment
Hi Trina
The most comprehensive test for heavy metals is a provocative urine challenge. There are a number of labs that offer this test including Doctors Data, Genova, Rocky Mountain Analytical.
I am familiar with zeolite, and have seen it work with many patients. Best advice i can provide is to find out what your test results bring back to determine best agents to remove your specific metals/toxins etc.
Dr. D
For someone who cannot afford the cost of chelation therapy, would regularly supplementing with chlorella be beneficial? Also, is spirulena as helpful as chlorella?
Vivien
I’m going to have Dr. Dempster come and comment
Yes, chlorella is a gentle chelator that can be very helpful on its own, and part of a more comprehensive program.
Dr. D
For someone who cannot afford the cost of chelation therapy, would regularly supplementing with chlorella be beneficial? Also, is spirulena as helpful as chlorella? Thank you
Thanks for another summit, Trudy!
*Please research and fully understand the consequences if thinking about doing a provocative urine challenge tests. Naturopaths are trained to administer them, but they can be dangerous.
Provocative urine challenge tests can be harmful (like an acute exposure) to the body in such high amounts because the mobilized heavy metals redistribute at DMSA’s half-life three hours later.
Doctor’s Data Heavy Metal and Minerals test is fairly inexpensive and has been very effective in treating my metal burden with just a small hair sample a few times a year. Many use it successfully.
Elle
It sounds like you have had a bad experience?
Thanks for posting. I feel we addressed this but perhaps were not clear enough. Doing this is serious and as Dr. Dempster said you need to work with a doctor who knows what he/she is doing and had has done all the testing to make sure you are ready for the provocation and chelation, and be ready to address issues that may arise, and back down as neccesary.
But I agree some people may be affected adversely – I was one of those people
This is NOT something I do with clients as it is out of the scope of my practice as a nutritionist so I’ll have Dr. Dempster come and see if he can add to this.
What I was trying to emphasize is that doing a DMSA urine challenge metals test is NOT SAFE FOR ANYONE with heavy metals EVEN IF working with an experienced Naturopath.
I appreciate how thoughtful you are with your summits, Trudy and am commenting with the utmost respect. Interviewing a speaker who means well and believes in using the DMSA urine challenge may make listeners think it is ok to do as you say as long as it is done with a doctor who knows what he/she is doing. (Really only Naturopaths do it, but it is far from natural.)
What happened with you Trudy is more the norm, not the exception. You were knocked off your feet for 3 weeks because the re-distribution of heavy metals that were mobilized by the high amount of DMSA. If you understand the science behind chelation, doing the challenge test makes as much sense as prescribing SSRI’s for depression, which I know you are not a fan. Please look into the science if you can before your closing talk this week.
I chose not do the DMSA urine challenge test. Thankfully I found this explained well last season from someone in your anxiety summit community at BeGutsy.com. I did the inexpensive hair test and use a chelation protocol, which is also inexpensive and safe. It is even used by many in the autism community using one or more of these three chelators: ALA, DMSA, DMPS. (Summary of the protocol in a book called Fight Autism & Win – I have no affiliation with it.)
Elle
Thanks for your concern and taking the time to share them. I take all feedback like this very seriously and am waiting for Dr. Dempster to come and share his perspectives.
I know of many NDs using this approach and have heard many many success stories.
I have also heard that some people don’t do well and that’s why I asked the question. As with any approach /food / nutrient some people will do great and some not so great
Can you share more on this? “If you understand the science behind chelation, doing the challenge test makes as much sense as prescribing SSRI’s for depression”
Thanks for that book Fight Autism & Win – I will look into it. I can’t find a TOC but per my quick search it seems it’s the Andrew Cutler protocol? I have heard very good feedback on this approach too but also some negative feedback too.
It’s a very challenging topic …
Hi Trudy. Just meant one would not prescribe a DMSA urine challenge test in general if they understood the science or biology regarding the half-life of chelators.
Here’s that post I mentioned which summarizes the science. Yes, AC protocol:
https://begutsy.com/2015/09/14/alpha-lipoic-acid/
I don’t believe you will think it is as challenging after you read those sources. Could even be the missing info in your own recovery from lead and mercury poisoning? 🙂
Elle
I can appreciate your concerns about DMSA. Like any medical treatment, it is imperative to properly assess the individual before embarking on any treatment. This is especially true when attempting to clear/remove metals. Is DMSA a good fit for everyone? Absolutely not. Is it safe for everyone? No. However, saying it is ‘dangerous’ and ‘unsafe’ for everyone is inaccurate. Here are a few peer reviewed studies in the medical literature that demonstrate the safety of DMSA:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19852790
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16239340
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10856034
After having seen thousands of patients over the last decade use various types of chelators effectively (including DMSA), I have been able to observe many different outcomes. That being said, the vast majority of these patients do very well without incurring any problems whatsoever. However, as in virtually all medical therapies, there is a small % of those who have had side effects to ALL chelators, including ‘gentler’ chelators such as; chlorella, glutathione, alpha lipoic acid, zeolite, etc. As a result, I have to stress, once again, how important it is for anyone considering any form of chelation – to have a thorough workup with a practitioner trained and certified in chelation (not all ND’s or MD’s are)to reduce risk of side effects, and ultimately help the patient heal. It is about treating the patient – not the condition or symptoms.
At the end of the day, there are many ways to reduce a heavy metal burden/toxicity safely and effectively. Match the treatment to the patient and you will get the best results.
Thanks for your reply, Dr. Dempster. I agree that DMSA can be an effective TREATMENT when used safely, and as you said with a thorough workup.
However, I was trying to share with Trudy and others that the DMSA urine challenge test is “not safe for anyone with heavy metals” as a way to TEST metals.
Especially when hair testing can be done inexpensively and without the risk of redistributing mercury to the brain and other organs.
John, i have many health problems and complex ptsd and heaps of amalgam fillings BUT I read equally bad things about the fillings that replace the amalgam fillings, please advise!!!!
Hi Pip
I’ll check to see if Dr. Dempster can hop on and comment. It’s a good question. Here is a good link to get you started https://iaomt.org/
Great question Pip. Getting your fillings removed is not something to be done carelessly. Working with (and finding)and excellent biological dentist is paramount when removing silver amalgam fillings. There are certain techniques that need to be in place to reduce any re-exposure during the removal process. You can likely do a google search near where you live to find a great biological dentist.
Dr. D
I have done the heavy metal test and my lead, mercury and cadmium were really high. I did a few chelation therapies but couldn’t do anymore, it was so expensive! So did zeolite for a few months, don’t know if it helped and if I should continue? I have bad anxiety, depression, colitis and Hashimoto’s and have had the anxiety since coming off paxil about 6 months ago. Any advice would be much appreciated.
Diane
I’m going to have Dr. Dempster come and comment but will say that Paxil is one of the challenging medications to quit.
Did you listen to Dr. Bongiorno’s serotonin interview? I find tryptophan very helpful with my clients doing a SSRI taper, and GABA is often helpful too.
Thank you so much for your reply Trudy. I did listen to Dr. Bongiorno and am planning to order the Lidtke Tryptophan that you recommend. Was there a particular company that you recommend for GABA?
I am talking 5HTP at the moment, should I stop that?
Thank you for putting on this summit and all the info. It is fabulous!
Great interview Dr Dempster and Trudy.
In ref to taking chlorella what about toxins coming from Japan, ocean polluted ? and cilantro metals in soil, would need to be organic?
Water was mentioned, how much is too much ?
6 ft 153lbs my husband is, and drinks a lot of water.
Thanks much !
Sorry, taking!
Dear Trudy, thank you for wonderful summit – lots of useful information! I wanted to check what was the name of extra supplement he uses? Metaloclear or metaboclear? Cant find it on internett.. Thank you!
Indre
Metalloclear http://www.metagenics.com/mp/products/metalloclear
I was glad to learn more about metals from Dr Dempster today. I have Menieres Disease (inner ear, causes vertigo & hearing loss) for which there is no known cause, many possible causes, and no cure. It has been mentioned that metal toxicity may be a factor. I haven’t had any testing done but I do have lots of metal dental fillings. I have started to have them replaced by a holistic dentist recently.
I would be interested in further info related to Menieres & metals if you have anything. What value would testing be for me? I have found it to be expensive. Would it help to know what kind of metals I am high in?
Thank you.
Nancy
I’ll check to see if Dr. Dempster can hop on and comment.
John said there are home tests for lead. May I know name of this test & where they are available? Which brand did he find most effective? How does one use it for testing lead in ceramics or glasswares used for food? Could it be used for testing house materials & personal items? What materials for personal use usually have lead aside from dinner wares? Is inhaling lead result in same result as touching lead? In US, aren’t all paints free of lead now?
Where in his website or other websites of lead researches has reliable comprehensive research on lead & findings?
Trina
I though google would provide results but no luck so I’ll check to see if Dr. Dempster can hop on and comment.
Great summit Trudy…Thank you so much!
Really enjoyed Dr. ‘s Dempster’s talk. He did mention that his initial labs included lymphatics. What testing method does he use to assess lymphatic function?
Thank you so much for all that you do.
Jami
I’ll check to see if Dr. Dempster can hop on and comment.
My Dr.’s Data hair test in 2006 showed 7 metals were high and I did my best to detox. Due to finances, I didn’t have it redone until 2013 and it showed none was over the limit so I was mighty surprised last year to see my lead body burden was 38 (s/b <2) using a Doctor's Data toxic metals 8 hour urine test provoked with 300mg DMPS & 500mg DMSA. After the test I rested a lot and used homeopathic MediNatura Body Anew cleanse and HVS Laboratories Metals formula to do my best to help prevent feeling worse. I am also very sensitive, could not afford IV chelation and didn't do well with Andy Cutler's DMSA protocol or Amy Yasko's EDTA oral or EDTA soak products so besides nutrition, stress reduction, etc. I am using these and other homeopathics with the help of pendulum testing. http://joettecalabrese.com/blog/lead-poisoning-and-two-homeopathic-antidotes-what-i-would-do-if-i-lived-in-flint-michigan/
What doses were you using for Cutler’s protocol? I am super sensitive too, so I use a very low dose of ALA and it is working well to get the mercury out of my brain and tissue. The one and only time it caused problems is when I tried to raise the dose too quickly. Others have said they had problems when they missed a dose so I am careful not to miss a dose.
The plan I suggested to my holistic MD was – 1 every 4 hours for 3 days, then 11 days off. 1/8 mg per lb or less to start, no more than 1/2 mg per lb. After my third dose or so my urine burned severely and I haven’t tried that again since. I increased my vitamin D since I am 52 and suspect osteopenia was contributing to symptoms since lead is often stored in bone. I use a glass mug instead of porcelain even though the 3m lead check swab test showed it wasn’t a source. I read about a young man lead poisoned by a sheepskin blanket and also read bathtubs can leach lead. I wish I had an XRF machine. http://leadsafeamerica.org/resources/test-your-stuff/
Sorry to hear that, Lisa. Sounds like you were using DMSA and not ALA. I heard DMSA can cause yeast issues so I just do the ALA which is the only way of chelating mercury out of the brain. 1/2mg per lb is really not recommended to start anymore even though it was the original recommendation.
I used the minimum (pixie dust) amount of DMSA and read ALA does not chelate lead. I did use Cutler’s ALA protocol a few years ago after having a root canal tooth removed. My mercury fillings were replaced about 10 years ago by a specially trained dentist and to help heal I used homeopathic mercury supervised by a Homeopath. Since you’re super sensitive too and in case other comment readers can benefit from any of the info, I thought I should share my story that my local newspaper published last week. We are all different. http://www.valleycenter.com/news/2016-06-09/Valley_Life/Detoxing_and_eliminating_lead_helps_fight_fibromya.html
Lisa
Thanks for sharing – I’m sorry to hear these various approaches haven’t worked well for you. It’s can be very challenging for some people
I’ll check to see if Dr. Dempster can hop on and comment.
I would appreciate Dr. Dempster’s thoughts on this ionic footbath and EDTA suppository made with Magnesium Di-Potassium instead of calcium. Too much calcium seems to be a problem for me and I use Dr. St. Amands guaifenesin protocol to manage pseudogout like pain. I have methylation & sulphation issues, +/+ for all BHMT, etc. Other chelation side effects that made me stop were eye blurriness and my borderline periodontal disease got worse as if the chelation was going after my numerous non porcelain dental work. http://healthandmed.com/ionizeme-elite-professional-ionic-detox-foot-bath-system-no-wrist-strap-dvd.html. https://www.drvitaminsolutions.com/products/RemedyLink-Medicardium-EDTA-Chelation-Suppositories-365mg-10-Count
I would really appreciate if Dr. Dempster would let us know how high he has seen the lead on the provoked test and what levels of lead he commonly sees.
Lisa
I’ll check to see if Dr. Dempster can hop on and comment.
I took DMPS for metal testing back in 2011, my results were mercury and lead just entering the yellow section. I’ve had chronic health issues and realize there are so many facets to this but it is possible that having low/mid levels of mercury and lead (less with arsenic, cadmium) could result in exaggerated symptom for some people? As in, it doesn’t take much to tip my scales?
30+ Top Authorities share how to overcome heavy metals exposure & reclaim your health!
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Niki Gratrix, mBANT, CNHC:
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Jay Davidson, PScD, DC:
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Elisa Song, MD:
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Toxins are everywhere. They are in our food, water, air, even our household goods…and they’re destroying health. EVERYONE has some level of mercury toxicity. Aluminum, has been linked to breast cancer, Alzheimer’s disease, allergies, even autism. The connection between toxins and disease is now undisputed, but it’s still being ignored by the conventional medical community. Fortunately, you can protect and heal yourself from these toxic metals!
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OUR SPEAKERS
Eric Zielinski, DC
USING ESSENTIAL OILS TO EASE DETOX SYMPTOMS
– How essential oils help with detox reactions
– Essential oils that chelate Iron
– Do’s (and don’ts) when using essential oils
Ian Clark
Founder of Activation Products
USING SEED OILS TO DETOX THE BODY
– Why all pressed oils are rancid
– Producing bile to detox the body
– Why magnesium is so important for detox
Warren Phillips
Co-Founder of Revelation Health LLC
DETOX STRATEGIES OF A TOXIC WASTE REMOVAL EXPERT
– Shocking symptoms & sources of heavy metal toxicity
– Most effective heavy metal detox supplements
Susanne Bennett, DC
SAFE DRAINAGE AND DETOXIFICATION STRATEGIES
– Lymph drainage supplements
– Facilitate drainage before attempting a detox
– Why we have toxic fat (and how to get rid of it!)
Deanna Minich, PhD, CNS, IFMCP
ROLE OF NUTRITION IN REDUCING HEAVY METALS
– How minerals detox metals
– Are you really sulfur sensitive?
– Rice, arsenic and diabetes connection
Jonathan Landsman
HOW TO SAFELY REMOVE MERCURY AMALGAM FILLINGS
– Most overlooked source of heavy metal toxicity!
– Why is this such a controversial topic?
Kevin Gianni
CEO of Annmarie Skin Care
TOXIC SKIN CARE INGREDIENTS TO AVOID PUTTING ON YOUR SKIN
– Heavy metals in conventional beauty products
– Problems that chemicals in beauty products pose
– How some so-called natural products may not be natural
Stephanie Seneff, PhD
SYNERGISTIC TOXICITY OF GLYPHOSATE, MERCURY AND ALUMINUM
– Vaccines that contain glyphosate
– The glutamate and neurodegeneration increase caused by glyphosate
Boyd Haley
EFFECTIVE MERCURY DETOXIFICATION STRATEGIES
– Mercury’s link to Alzheimer’s and autism
– Novel agent to detox mercury out of the brain
Daniel Pompa, PScD
DANGERS OF MERCURY POISONING
– How mercury interferes in thyroid function
– Why remove mercury fillings prior to detox
– Dr. Pompa’s secret weapon to truly detox
Julie Matthews, BS, NC
HOW DO HEAVY METALS AFFECT CHILDREN WITH AUTISM?
Elisa Song, MD
WHAT WE CAN DO TO HEAL CHRONIC ILLNESS IN OUR KIDS
– Why are our children so sick today?
– How to test for heavy metals in kids
– Strategies to detox our children
Joe Mercola, DO, FACN
EMF AND HEAVY METALS CONNECTION
– How heavy metals make you an antenna for EMF
– Does your sauna have high EMF?
– Tips for reducing EMF in your home
Sayer Ji
Founder & Director of GreenMedInfo
METALLOESTROGENS AND HOW TO DETOX THEM
– Metals that affect hormones (and their role in promoting cancer)
– How toxins contribute to obesity (it’s not just calories!)
– How Flax helps to reduce the effects of estrogenic toxins
Wendy Myers, FDN-P, CHHC
METALS THAT CAUSE FATIGUE
– Fatigue can be improved with metal detox
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– 2 best supplements to detox from fatigue-causing metals
Lindsey Berkson, MA, DC, DACBN, ACN
EFFECT OF TOXIC METALS ON DIGESTION AND THE GUT
– How antacids and NSAIDs destroy digestion
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Tom O’Bryan, DC, CCN, DACBN
HOW HEAVY METALS PROMOTE AUTOIMMUNE DISEASE
– Do mercury and aluminum promote autoimmunity?
– Can you predict if you’ll get an autoimmune disease?
Thanks for sharing the line-up of excellent speakers – I share snippets from Boyd Haley’s interview here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/mercury-detox-nbmi-safe-non-toxic-heavy-metal-chelator/
The doctor commenting lacks understanding.
If you are sick with HM and you do a challenge test it will fick you up. It moves more metals than your body can eliminate resulting in redistribution making you worse. If your levels are low than it wont cause that many problems but if you’re levels are moderate or heavy than you will almost certainly make things worse.
To chelate you need to go low and slow.