Prof. Liz Lipski, PhD, CCN, CNS, was interviewed on the Anxiety Summit by host of the Anxiety Summit, Trudy Scott, Food Mood Expert and Nutritionist, author of The Antianxiety Food Solution.
Anxiety and digestion: the microbiome, stomach acid, bile and the vagus nerve
- The microbiome – how these microbes are “us” and not different from us
- Low stomach acid and the effects on protein/zinc/iron absorption, and candida
- Low bile production and fat absorption issues
- The vagus nerve, enteric nervous system and neurotransmitter production
Here are some gems from our interview:
So just to start the microbiome itself is not something separate from us but it’s the most newly recognized organ that we have in the human body. And it’s comprised of viruses, bacteria and fungi. And they’re like our rainforest and they live in every epithelial cell surface of our body so they’re on our skin, they’re in your lungs, in your hair, in your nailbeds. They’re in your genitourinary system, in your digestive system, in your nose. They’re really everywhere and I think that we’re also going to find that we have these microbes inside of our brain and inside of our liver and I think the more we learn we’re going to find that they’re really everywhere.
The thing that excites me about them is that they really help run our metabolism, help determine whether we’re fat or thin, help determine what our moods are like and how we feel.
I just love this comment about the microbiome:
And honestly I never know are we just a big bag for carrying around these microbes and they’re really the intelligence in our body or what? Because they’re kind of like the superstars and we’re really a super organism. And without them we don’t function at all.
Here is some of what covered in the gut brain connection section:
We make a lot of neurotransmitters in our gut. In fact we make about 80 to 90 percent of our neurotransmitters like serotonin. We make most of it in our digestive system and not in our brain at all. And when you start looking at it, it’s like wow, you look at dopamine and epinephrine and norepinephrine and all of these are made in great abundance in the digestive system itself and again they help modulate again the microbiome. They help modulate gut motility, so how fast or how slow the food moves through our digestive system.
Here is a fascinating article that covers much of the new research. The tantalizing links between gut microbes and the brain : Neuroscientists are probing the idea that intestinal microbiota might influence brain development and behaviour.
We cover hydrochloric acid and minerals:
So hydrochloric acid is really important for that. It also helps us just break down proteins so that our digestive enzymes don’t have to work so hard. And then it also in the beginning of the small intestine which is called the duodenum -it’s the first 12 to 18 inches – what happens is that the acid is still there before it get neutralized by the pancreas which secretes basically baking soda and neutralizes it because it’s done its job. But in that first big part of the small intestine, the duodenum, is where we absorb iron and calcium and zinc and to a lesser extent magnesium and copper. And so when we don’t have enough acid we’re more likely to get mineral insufficient.
This is the book she mentions in the interview – Why Stomach Acid Is Good for You: Natural Relief from Heartburn, Indigestion, Reflux and GERD by Jonathan Wright
Here is Liz’s fabulous book Digestive Wellness 4th edition
Here is the Stomach Acid/Hydrochloric Acid Test handout
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Hi. Great interview!! I don’t see the mentioned link for the abstains HCL protocol she uses.
Thanks!!
We just added it
I have read HCL acid is needed to be taken before meals. When I learned that lemon/lime juice has citric acid & apple cider vinegar has HCL acid I took either or both some minutes before meals. But my CNC encouraged me to follow as much as possible the blood type foods. My blood type “O” lists apple cider vinegar as one to be avoided. I had to try following my CNC whom I paid. I continue to take lemon/lime juice only before meals. Does Prof. Liz follow blood type book for foods to take & avoid; if not 100%, what would be criteria to tell what works or not? Another Sweden/Australian-based nutritionist researcher said only 25% of blood type foods is correct. I do not know how he arrived at this. My CNC said there could be exception like country one is born in & are comfortable with some foods listed as NO for my blood type like avocado & coconut which I loved to take since childhood. I am not aware of any adverse effects on body after eating these foods to be avoided by “Os”. What do you think?
Trina
I recommend HCl in the middle of a meal so there is food already in the stomach. I don’t use the blood type type except I do find type O’s do well with animal protein. I don’t believe Liz uses it either but many people feel it’s beneficial. The good aspects are that it removes all the junk and inflammatory foods
If a female got diagnosed of leaky gut in the 1990s & was given supplements by an MD without changing diet since he was not a CN, to what extent can supplements like some digestive powders heal leaky gut. I do not recall having another test for leaky gut after that. If one has the symptoms of leaky gut listed, then is there no need for lab test? This person takes fermented foods like home-made sauerkraut before lunch daily with breaks of 2 weeks when paracleanse programs are taken as suggested by a Ann Louise Gittleman, CN in local area those yrs. To keep parasites under control, Kroeger Herbs paracleanse kit with wormwood caps, cloves caps & black walnut are taken for 2 weeks close to full moon (when these entities multiply more) then 5 days of break. Since ferments have high histamine feeding parasites, ferments are stopped during paracleanse. Do you agree with this?
Trina
I see best results with diet changes (removing problem foods) and gut healing nutrients.
I can’t really comment on the parasite cleanse – I’d check with your practitioner
I really enjoyed Liz Lipski’s interview! Great information!! I am wondering if someone is experiencing an enormous amount of food sensitivities is it possible to reset the immune system so that they can b able to eat a larger range of again? And how long might that potentially take? I’ve been doing an elimination with all my sensitivities but have lost a lot of weight and also cannot tolerate a ton of supplements. So I’m very curious about this…. I feel emotionally and psychologically so much better through eliminating gluten/grains dairy and sugar. But I am feeling challenged to get enough nutrients which I know is not good. Many thanks!!
Gillian
Absolutely! removal of foods if the first step (which is where you are) and then gut healing and figuring out why you have the issues and addressing them (stress? SIBO? parasites? low zinc? etc etc) and then challenging foods one by one.
In the mean time I’d focus on nutrient-dense foods like bone broths and plenty of healthy fats and even protein shakes
Hello Trudy,
Thank you so much for such an amazing summit… My 13 yr old daughter has been on ppi meds for years now due to reflux that she’s had since tiny and am really concerned that doctors have never looked at root causes. She recently suffered from 6 months of oesophageal reversal. I have struggled to find an integrative approach so have been looking at info myself and was thrilled to listen to liz lipksi’s talk …. Is it possible to get in touch with her at all? We live in Australia. Thank you for all the life changing information your making available.
Robyn
Liz is no longer in private practice but her book is fabulous. I would encourage you to find a nutritionist or naturopath to work with to help find if food sensitivities may be the root cause and help to address likely mineral deficiencies.
You are so welcome! and please come back and let us know how she’s doing
Prof. Lipski mentioned the importance of probiotics for gut health during this talk. Trudy, do you have certain probiotic products that you recommend? Or at least a guideline for what to look for to find a quality probiotic? I feel like there are so many probiotic products on the market now, it’s overwhelming to know what to get and whether it’s really a good product. Would love to know your suggestions. Thank you so much for this summit! It’s been great!
Jill
I would love for something from a professional grade company and make sure it’s refridgerated. I use Designs for Health a lot and theirs are all good. I have been looking into Megaspore recently but don’t have enough to go on yet. Of course fermented foods go without saying
Hi Trudy,
I have been using MegaSpore Biotic for a while now and find it very impressive. If you want to research it further, you can go to http://www.rebelhealthtribe.com and check out the Microbiome Series with Kiran Krishna (free to all but you will need to sign in). There are over 12 hours of info with Q and A’s. Several episodes focus specifically on Megaspore and it’s research. After hearing Kiran speak about probiotics in general and MegaSpore in particular, I decided to try it and am very happy I did. I believe there are articles about MegaSpore on the site as well. I think you will be impressed with MegaSpore and with Kiran. 🙂
PS: Loving the Summit. As always, interviews are outstanding. 🙂
Thanks for sharing Julie – I’ve been impressed with what I’ve recently learned about Megaspore and will be digging more into this
Glad you’re loving the summit!
Dr Lipski,
One comment on the liver/gall bladder flush. How can the “stones” be just congealed olive oil, unless one’s body is below 40 degrees Fahrenheit? That is when olive oil starts to thicken. I think I would have to put my olive oil in the freezer to get it to congeal. The other problem with the olive oil congealing in the liver is that these congealed stones are coming out in a variety of colors, yet, the olive oil being drunk is light green. I can’t believe the doctors you mentioned really looked at this seriously. Their conclusion is not plausible. I have at least 23 flushes under my belt.
Bobbi
Thanks for the feedback and excellent comment. As we said many people love it and feel it helps – I assume that’s the case since you’ve done 23. Although I am curious why so many? and how you feel before and afterwards?
Does Liz have any suggestions for gastritis, burning stomach and hoarseness. Use DGL, aloe, slippery elm with minimal success.
Hi Trudy,
I’m a healthy 56 years old female who has been diagnosed with LADA. I’m on a very low carb and sugar diet and I’m eating a lot of healthy fats. Even though I inject fast acting insulin and long acting insulin, I’m struggling to keep my blood sugar levels normal. I eat well and exercise regularly. My life is low stress. I wake up every morning with joint pain, unsettled liver (gall bladder removed when I was 16 years old), scratchy throat, ringing in the ears (tinnitus?), and numbing sensation in the back of the throat. My endocronologist doesn’t have answers for me. I had Grave’s Disease 10 years ago and I was able to reverse it? How can I get to the root cause of my diabetes? And do you know of a good Functional Medicine Practioner that might be able to support me on my journey to reversing my diabetes? I live in Vancouver, B.C.
Thank you for your wealth of information and I’m really enjoying the summit.
Ana
Ana
I would start with the basics and remove gluten (joint pain?) and look for other food sensitivities, and look at gut health and digestion. And get assessed for nutritional deficiencies – tinnitis can be due to gluten and/or low B12
I would suggest checking the IFM directory to find someone locally
I cannot download the hcl test free gift using either of myemail addresses it sys error enter a valid email address also I have given up posting here because if you post any comment and tick notify me of follow up you get every other comment posted on the whole summit, dozens and dozens of emails which are fascinating but no way do i have time to read the all. Great Summit Trudy.
Pip
Please send an email to support@everywomanover29.com with some additional information – what browser and PC or Mac or other device
Re the comments, simply uncheck the notify me and you will stop getting the emails
Trudy, Ms. Lipski said that GABA is made by L. Rhamnosus, L. Acidophilus, and Bifidus strains of bacteria. Do we know which strains of bacteria make serotonin? If so, then if we could find probiotic formulations that contain those strains, I’m assuming that would be helpful to those of us that are low in serotonin, correct? Personally, I’ve taken many different formulations with dozens of strains over the past few years. I’m not finding anything that I feel helps me, at least not yet. I still have more to try though. If I knew which specific strains to look for, that would be helpful.
Donna
Most of this research has been done in animal studies so it’s not all exactly clear. I can share this human study where women eating yogurt twice (with live species of bifidobacterium, streptococcus, lactococcus, and lactobacillus) were calmer and happier http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3839572/
I like to have my clients add in a range of fermented foods and probiotics at the same time as we make food changes (no gluten/no sugar/ no caffeine) and adding targeted individual amino acids like GABA (for GABA boosting) and tryptophan (for serotonin-boosting)
Trudy, so I read through that study as best I could, eyes glazing over several times 😉 but I understand that the fermented milk product with probiotics made a difference. The species used were Bifidobacterium animalis subsp Lactis, Streptococcus thermophiles, Lactobacillus bulgaricus, and Lactococcus lactis subsp Lactis. Do fermented milk products typically contain these strains, or was this a special formulation? A brand like Lifeway is typically found in grocery stores everywhere. I wonder if that would have these strains, or do we have to make our own milk drink? I’ll need to research this. Is there something specific to having these strains cultured in the milk that makes it beneficial? OR could I find probiotics containing these strains and take them with water?
Donna
We’re really too early to be able to pick these probiotics and say they will help with mood. A good variety of probiotic strains, mixed and matched, plus fermented foods is ideal. Plus making sure there is no candida or parasites obviously.
Hi,
I am in the UK. I have tried the HCL acid with pespin a while back but found it felt too harsh in the stomach – I felt a soarness there and so did not try to take any more!! I thought the acid could be causing the soft tissue to tear? Is there something that can be taken to coat the stomach – DGL did not suit me and slippery elm does not work much?
I have heartburn and indigestion all the time and have an acid taste in my mouth and back of my throat and have not be able to taste my foods for the last 3 years – do not like taking PPI
Maybe you could suggest HCL acid that may be better suited?
Julie
Julie
Per the interview with Liz I would focus on food sensitivities i.e get to the root cause of why this is happening
Dr Lipski,
Could you explain how the live oil treatment is used to clean it out of liver stones?
I have not heard f this treatment at all.
Jule
Julie
We talked about the liver-gallbladder cleanse and it’s not something that either of us recommend to clients
I have done liver & gall bladder cleanse recommended by our spiritual teacher. It starts with taking organic apple juice for some 3 days to soften the stones because it has enzymes to do this. Standard Process phosfood liquid is dropped in apply juice of water following no. of drops given in formula. This softens stones more powerfully. on last day some tbsp. of extra virgin light olive oil mixed with coke (only for purposes of making oil easier to take but I replaced coke with grapefruit juice which is healthier), this will make liver overwhelmed with oil & will throw it out with softened stones & stool will show stones as colored balls like green or brown. Trudy may I know why both of you do not recommend this? It would be good for me to know even if I have stopped doing this annually after my shift to live-food diet.
Trina
It’s not supported by research, is not taught in nutrition school and some people have landed in hospital doing it
Dr Lipski,
I seem to been finding it a problem absorbing fats – I am going though the change – I there anything that can be taken or maybe some work could be done on the vagus nerve?
Julie
Julie
I’ll reply until Liz can hop on. Supporting bile production may help – Liz mentioned ox bile and taurine. Lipase can also help. If you suspect vagus nerve issues, addressing this is very helpful for digestion. Have you seen my vagus nerve videos? https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/vagus-nerve-rehab-gaba/
More great info! With regard to fat absorption, I did wonder if Prof. Lipski would comment on whether stools that always float are something to be concerned about.
Vivien
The thinking is that floating stools could indicate fat malabsorption
You mentioned blood-brain barrier. EMF crosses this barrier with its high frequencies. Although I use EMF-protection devices on the body like pendant using 2 different technologies, if I am in wifi environment my protection is not sufficient since sources are not within my control always. I get headache after 3 hrs in front of big TV screen still despite my pendants with Energy Resonance technology by GIA Wellness & copper & Tachyon big disc on body. So how do we test extent of damage in blood-brain barrier? Better still is can it be repaired with food? Like feeding nerves with right nutrients to repair? where do we get those in your website?
Trina
We can suspect leaky BBB when we have leaky gut so as Dr Tom O’Bryan said heal the gut first. There are Cyrex panels that test for leaky BBB – go back and listen to his interview https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/gluten-anxiety-testing-conundrum/
I look forward to listening to this but suspect she suggests Betaine HCL. I can’t take this due to Methyl sensitivity and I feel at a loss for balancing stomach acid. I use ACV, but it’s tricky to balance.
Niki, can you explain a bit more about why you can’t take betaine hcl due to methyl sensitivity? What happens in that case?
I have a “jam”, several actually, in my methylation cycle. Too many methyls cause my body to do what I describe as putting the gas pedal to the floor while the breaks are on. An exhaustion mixed with inability to turn off the adrenalin and all the symptoms that follow. I’m following a diet that lowers methyl content and my bcomplex (b12/b9 is not the methyl form). I’m the opposite from most people even though I have the same symptoms, my pathways and blood work show I have to avoid methyls. It has calmed me down but I can tell my digestion lacks acid and feel it’s preventing gut healing and nutrient absorption. Hope that all makes sense!
It’s so complicated! Fortunately you understand what’s wrong and what to do about it. Did you have genetic testing to figure that out? 23andme, or more specific tests? I thought I’d have to have the general 23andme to figure out methylation, but I’ve now heard that there are specific tests and 23andme isn’t necessarily necessary 😉
Hi!
Thank you for this interview!!
I am looking forward to try the apple cidar vinegar test later on today! … I heard that acid inhibits carbohydrate digestion. Would taking apple cidar vinegar with meals interfear with that?
I have been haginv problems with a burning sensation in my stomach e.g. during and after meals (not when I e.g. only eat cooked potatoes) or even after drinking drinks that are supposed to me good for my stomach such as warm water with healing earth, camomile tea, or warm water with turmeric (is it not beneficial to drink these on an empty stomach?) … is this a symptom that falls under the lable of “indigetion”??
I went to see a doctor but he prescribed me a protone pump inhibitor (which I decided not to take after I saw that it has aluminum in it) as well as a supplement with zinc, potassium, calcium and magnesium for the regulation of the acid-base balance. Would you say it may be beneficial to take the later though?
Thanks so much for your feedback in advance 🙂
Trudy,
Have you used The Heidelberg test to assess HCl levels? What is your experience with it? Is it effective?
It is available in the USA; I don’t know if it is available elsewhere.
Thank you!
Natalia
I have not used it
Thank you Trudy and Liz. wonderful interview !
Liz mentioned Betine HCI, any brand?
My mom had stomach cancer; stomach cut out, is now part of small intestine; still has belching and burping; only can eat small amounts and stools very lose; she eats live foods. what could she use betine ? In past gave her HCI but was not effective. And should use probiotics, enzymes?
THANK YOU.
Romy
I would not use HCl with someone with no stomach – as Liz said it can burn a hole in the digestive tract. I would encourage nourishing foods like broths
Hi Trudy!
What would you say are possibilities for people that don’t react in any way to taking hcl supplements (taking the hcl challenge test)? If a person has hashimotos and signs of low stomach acid (low protein, BUN, digestive complaints), but is taking around 6-7 caps of hcl with meals (high protein meals) for about 3 months with no changes, what may be the cause of this? I have read in your book that you should take no more than 5, but even 6-7 isn’t doing anything. Could it be adrenal dysfunction? Dysbiosis? Any suggestions of further testing?
Thanks so much!
Tina
I’ve had clients continue with 5 HcL and add apple cide vinegar and bitter greens and it often improves but yes the adrenals play a role and so does low zinc. The gut would be a factor too and anything else that is impacting the adrenals