I see everyone raving about gelatin and collagen – and rightly so – they have amazing health benefits. However, no-one is addressing the fact that gelatin is actually used in tryptophan-depletion studies to lower serotonin (gelatin is derived from collagen: when collagen breaks down, it becomes gelatin). When I first discovered this fact it really concerned me that this very important aspect is ignored so I added it to my long list of topics to investigate.
I posted the above on Facebook last month as part of a fact-finding exercise and appreciate all the feedback and questions. Today I share some of the feedback and research and I’d love to hear from you what your experiences have been.
I share how my experience with collagen left me flat and worried until I added tryptophan; feedback from individuals who wondered if collagen was affecting their sleep, making them moody, on edge or feeling night-time anxiety; some reported no mood issues when using collagen with tryptophan; feedback from many who didn’t notice any obvious mood issues at all ;and one woman who uses collagen ‘therapeutically’ to lower her serotonin levels.
I also share some very interesting research on why some people seem to be adversely impacted by acute tryptophan depletion/ATD (caused by collagen or gelatin consumption) while others are not. There are definitely some folks who are more susceptible.
The health benefits of collagen
In case you’re new to collagen, Dr. Josh Axe provides an excellent overview of the health benefits of collagen
- Improves Health of Skin and Hair
- Reduces Joint Pains and Degeneration
- Helps Heal Leaky Gut
- Boosts Metabolism, Muscle Mass and Energy Output
- Strengthens Nails, Hair and Teeth
- Improves Liver Health
- Protects Cardiovascular Health
Gelatin is used in tryptophan depletion studies
Tryptophan-depletion studies have been done for years, as a way to study the relationship between low serotonin and depression. Often a tryptophan-deficient amino acid mixture is used for this purpose. More recently, collagen and gelatin are being used.
Collagen and gelatin are an excellent source of these amino acids: proline, glycine, glutamine and arginine, but they do not contain the amino acid tryptophan.
This paper, Pharmacokinetics of acute tryptophan depletion using a gelatin-based protein in male and female Wistar rats summarizes what we find in a number of studies that use gelatin for the purpose of lowering serotonin levels, in order to study the relationship between serotonin and behavior:
The essential amino acid tryptophan is the precursor of the neurotransmitter serotonin. By depleting the body of tryptophan, brain tryptophan and serotonin levels are temporarily reduced. In this paper, several experiments are described in which dose and treatment effects of acute tryptophan depletion (ATD) using a gelatin-based protein-carbohydrate mixture were studied in male and female Wistar rats.
My experience with collagen – flat and worried until I added tryptophan
When I recently injured my back and sprained my ankle, I decided to add collagen to speed up the healing and very quickly had to take a deeper dive into the topic because I noticed it affected my mood right away! I was using just one big scoop of collagen in a protein shake (pea protein) and yet I felt flat and slightly anxious within a day. It was the worried low-serotonin kind of anxiety in the early hours – something I haven’t felt in quite some time.
I wondered if it was due to the injury and inflammation my body was dealing with or if it was related to the effects of tryptophan depletion. I stopped the collagen and then added it back and had the same experience. I did this a few times and experienced similar feelings each time.
When I used tryptophan mid-afternoon and at bedtime I felt fine and was able to continue taking the collagen with no problems. I am prone to low serotonin – it was one of the root causes of my big anxiety issues in my late 30s – so I may be more affected than the average person.
Wondering if collagen causing mood issues and an increase in anxiety?
Here is feedback from someone who is wondering if collagen is causing her mood to dive:
I have wondered if it affects my mood so I haven’t been using it lately. Interested to see what other people say. I was using about a table spoon in a drink that I would sip on throughout the morning. My moods just take dives now and then. I have isolated gluten as a HUGE factor. I am forever wondering what else causes the dives and I began to wonder if collagen was causing problems so I haven’t used it in several months.
Stephanie feels moody when using collagen:
I have found that the days I take collagen that I’m moody. I’ve kept trying, but am always surprised by the reaction. I even mentioned it to my naturopath recently. Curious to see if there’s a connection.
Here is feedback from someone also reporting mood dives and feeling on edge (although as I pointed out to her the feeling on edge is very likely due to or partly due to the coffee):
I take collagen (grass-fed and grass-finished) in my coffee every morning. I’ve also had some mood dives consistently the last few months and feel more on edge. I’ve honestly never made the connection and actually thought it was hormones. Something to think about!
Melissa shared it affected her sleep:
As soon as I started taking gelatin daily I have had difficult falling asleep.
Katinka began having strange night time anxiety:
I did [Vital Proteins grass fed beef gelatin] for 2 weeks in bone broth. My nails grew like crazy, but at the same time I begun having strange night time anxiety: worry, obsessive, but not any of the other symptoms like depression and cravings. It is interesting to me because this was the only time I had anxiety at night since going gluten free.
Collagen caused a racing heart for Beverly:
Used to take Vital Proteins products. Was woken up several times in the night with racing heartbeat and out of breath. This went away when I stopped the collagen. I have symptoms of low serotonin but have not tried tryptophan
No noticeable problems
Many people shared that they didn’t notice any obvious mood issues so it’s clearly not a problem for everyone:
- Jaime: Interesting, I use it almost daily for protein at breakfast. I will pay attention better. No obvious problems now (used for 9 months).
- Angela: …I don’t think I have any side effects and I do have serotonin issues. I think I will have to do more research
- Courtney: I just started using collagen peptides but not every day. Maybe once or twice a week. I haven’t noticed any difference in mood but I also just started taking it a few weeks ago.
- Debra: I take 1bsp of Great Lakes Collagen Hydrosylate every day and take it to help heal my leaky gut….haven’t noticed any particular side-effects. I alternate it with the normal gelatin. I suffer from complex PTSD, anxiety and depression…I haven’t noticed any difference in that either
Jessica Drummond, nutritionist and physical therapist, and an expert on female pelvic pain and women’s health shared:
I use collagen regularly and I also eat quite a lot of meat and fish. For me both help me to feel very grounded and less anxious. I think of collagen as balancing for all of the muscle meat that we eat. I eat anywhere from 10-20 grams 4-5 days per week.
Feels anxious using gelatin, stop using it and anxiety is gone/less
Laura’s anxiety got worse within a few months of adding daily gelatin:
Wow, I never heard that gelatin can lower serotonin. I started using [Puritan’s Pride brand], 650mg, daily about 6 months ago to strengthen my nails. It’s worked very well for that. About a couple months ago my anxiety started to get worse again. My anxiety shows up as fear and worry mostly and not being able to quiet my mind. I had gotten it under control for almost 2 years now. I wonder if there is a connection. I’m going to stop taking the gelatin and see if my anxiety improves. I have not tried tryptophan, but I have found GABA helped quiet my mind and let me sleep better.
She decided to stop taking it to see if her anxiety symptoms would reduce and when I checked back with her she shared this:
I was surprised to find after about 2 weeks of stopping the gelatin, I began to feel more calm again and it’s been a lasting change. I still take zinc, vitamin b6 and lysine in the morning and GABA in the evening. This combination works well for me. I’m so grateful for all the information you share! Thank you!
Toni experienced something similar:
I’ve been using Organic collagen for about 8 months now… love the hair and skin results. My tummy felt better at first but not currently. My anxiety and panic attacks are off the charts: panic attacks, heart racing, sweating, brain fog. I want to escape -like fight or flight. Definately obsessing and fears. Memory difficulty. I have an upcoming GI appointment to check for Candida /SIBO… but I had no idea this could add to my anxiety. I’ll be looking forward to more information, Seriously.
And a few weeks after stopping the collagen she shared this:
I stopped using the collagen. Since then, my anxiety and panic are decreased by less than half. Mild in comparison. I’m definately taking a long break.
Keep in mind I’m not suggesting we should not be using collagen – just that if it seems to lower serotonin and increase anxiety/depression doing a trial with tryptophan may be the solution (more on that and some other possible causes of anxiety below).
When used with tryptophan – no mood issues
Karen uses collagen and tryptophan at night:
I use collagen every day. But hey, I also take L-tryptophan every night for anxiety. It runs in the family and a small amount of Tyrptophan at night helps resolve mine. No clue there was a connection
Maxine uses it every morning and takes 1 tryptophan before bed and reports no mood issues
I take it [Great Lakes gelatin and Vital Choice collagen] every morning in my tea and at night in my bone broth for my skin and joints and I take one tryptophan before bed. The tryptophan with GABA before bed is for better sleep. No mood issues.
Used ‘therapeutically’ to lower serotonin
Misty reports using it ‘therapeutically’ to lower her high serotonin levels. This application is new to me and I find it quite fascinating:
I use it to reduce tryptophan because I have a tendency toward high serotonin. I have suffered my entire life with ADD, tics as a child, grinding teeth, general anxiety, lack of motivation and later, IBS. In my quest to maximize my health, I finally came to these web pages for help. In my 53 years I’ve never been as calm as I am now. If I’m not careful, I can get a bout of IBS (not food related and trust me, from GAPS to AIP, nothing really affects me). I reduce tryptophan and I’m balanced. It seems contrary but it works for me and so many others
She links to these articles Tryptophan, Sleep, and Depression and The Sadder Side of Serotonin which both refer to the work of Ray Peat who I recently discovered is very much against the use of tryptophan.
I agree with the premise of too much serotonin causing issues (often the same symptoms we see with serotonin that is too low) but not the general message that tryptophan supplements and foods high in tryptophan are harmful and should be avoided by everyone. Based on the clinical results myself and other practitioners see boosting low serotonin with tryptophan and/or 5-HTP -and the wonderful results they experience – in my opinion, this is really all about biochemical individuality.
I decided to share this story here, even with the controversial tryptophan articles, because it illustrates that it is highly likely that the collagen is lowering her serotonin levels and making her feel better. I’ll tackle the above negative articles about serotonin and tryptophan in a separate blog post.
Why are some people adversely impacted by acute tryptophan depletion/ATD while others are not?
UPDATE: Dec 22, 2017. This section adds additional evidence or possibly some theories for why some people are adversely impacted when consuming collagen, while others are not impacted mood-wise – all related to the lowering of serotonin levels. These are called ATD or acute tryptophan depletion studies.
This paper: The effect of raising and lowering tryptophan levels on human mood and social behavior explains that effects of ATD can vary based on susceptibility of the study participants to clinical depression:
Acute tryptophan depletion (ATD) studies indicate that low serotonin can lower mood and also increase aggression, although results vary somewhat between studies with similar participants. Lowering of mood after ATD is related to the susceptibility of the study participants to clinical depression, and some participants show no effect on mood.
In healthy individuals, there is little or no lowering of mood, although results can be quite variable between studies, with some lowering of mood seen more often in women than in men.
The author reports the following variable responses:
In healthy participants with a family history of depression, there is a lowering of mood although mood remains within the normal range of mood.
In newly recovered depressed patients on antidepressants that act on the serotonergic system, 50 per cent or more of the patients show a temporary reappearance of the depressed mood they experienced before recovery.
In recovered depressed patients off antidepressants, only a small percentage of the patients show a marked lowering of mood.
In recovered depressed on noradrenergic antidepressants, there is no lowering of mood.
The results of the ATD studies suggest that lowering serotonin synthesis can lower mood in some circumstances, and that the magnitude of the effect tends to be greater in people with a greater susceptibility for depression.
Other studies report on these groups of people that were adversely affected with a lowered mood after ATD:
OCD / obsessive compulsive disorder: Patients with OCD experienced a decrease in control and an increase in interfering thoughts after acute tryptophan depletion. There was no effect on anxiety in this group.
Genetic polymorphisms: A number of papers show some genetic polymorphisms make some individuals vulnerable to increased depression after acute tryptophan depletion, such as MAOA and 5-HTTLPR (the serotonin transporter gene). In one 5-HTTLPR polymorphism study differences were seen between men and women: healthy men became more impulsive, whereas healthy women showed a mood reduction after ATD. Keep in mind that having a polymorphism doesn’t mean there will always be an issue, instead, it means there may be a predisposition.
Comorbidity between depression and tobacco use may reflect self-medication of serotonergically mediated mood dysregulation [and acute tryptophan depletion or ATD] increased self-ratings of depressed mood [in certain smokers].
Although this study was looking at the role of nicotinic receptors in disordered mood and the self-medication of mood by smoking, we may be able to extrapolate this for our purposes because it was this one subset of smokers who were more depressed after tryptophan depletion. Could it be that smokers or even former smokers are more likely see increased depression after consuming collagen because it contains no tryptophan? Or is it that smokers tend to be drawn to smoking because they are prone to low serotonin?
Women ecstasy users: The effect of acute tryptophan depletion on mood and impulsivity in polydrug ecstasy users.
Women polydrug ecstasy users appear to be more susceptible than men to the effects of lowered serotonin levels [when they] received a tryptophan-deficient amino acid mixture and a control amino acid mixture containing tryptophan, at least 1 week apart.
The women who were impacted – with a lowering of their mood – used a tryptophan-deficient amino acid mixture and not collagen. The authors suggest this could be due to the drug-use causing progressive damage of serotonin neurons. Could this also happen with collagen consumption in current and possibly prior drug users? What about users of other street drugs or even medications that may also damage serotonin neurons?
Interestingly, in a study looking at five chronic fatigue/CFS patients, none of them showed any significant differences in fatigue, depression and concentration when subjected to acute tryptophan depletion /ATD. Was this group of patients too small or were none of them susceptible to low serotonin?
This is just a small selection of studies looking at the effects of acute tryptophan depletion or ATD but they give us much to think about when it comes to considering the varied effects we are seeing when individuals consume collagen.
If collagen affects you adversely and makes you feel more depressed, more anxious and experience worse sleep, can you relate to any of the above scenarios?
More questions and looking for your feedback
As you can see we have very different experiences but there are enough unanswered questions we need to be asking:
- Are the negative effects because of low serotonin? If yes, are some of us more susceptible to the serotonin-lowering effects than others and should we stop using collagen despite all the health benefits?
- And should we be assessing for low serotonin levels before using collagen or gelatin, and supplementing with tryptophan when it is low (more on this below)? There is one company that has added tryptophan to their collagen – is this a good idea?
- Or are the negative effects some people experience due to glutamates, arginine, histamine, because of quality issues and glyphosate levels, an increase in oxalates or something else such as not eating enough animal protein?
I’ll address the above questions and share some additional research and feedback from collagen experts in part 2 of this article.
Until then, if you have observed a mood dip or increase in anxiety since using collagen or gelatin, I would suggest you stop using collagen/gelatin and see how you feel, then add it back and see how you feel. If you do see a correlation, do the low serotonin questionnaire and a trial of tryptophan (after checking the precautions) to see if this improves your mood when using collagen/gelatin. I recently blogged about tryptophan here (brand is important).
Resources if you are new to using the amino acids as supplements
If you are new to using any of the amino acids as supplements, here is the Amino Acids Mood Questionnaire from The Antianxiety Food Solution (you can see all the symptoms of neurotransmitter imbalances, including low endorphins).
If you suspect low levels of any of the neurotransmitters and do not yet have my book, The Antianxiety Food Solution – How the Foods You Eat Can Help You Calm Your Anxious Mind, Improve Your Mood, and End Cravings, I highly recommend getting it and reading it before jumping in and using amino acids on your own so you are knowledgeable. And be sure to share it with the practitioner/health team you or your loved one is working with.
There is an entire chapter on the amino acids and they are discussed throughout the book in the sections on gut health, gluten, blood sugar control, sugar cravings, self-medicating with alcohol and more.
The book doesn’t include product names (per the publisher’s request) so as mentioned above, this blog, The Antianxiety Food Solution Amino Acid and Pyroluria Supplements, lists the amino acids that I use with my individual clients and those in my group programs.
As mentioned above, Lidtke Endorphigen is the DPA product I’ve had the most success with (and it can be found in my online store). Doctor’s Best D-phenylalanine is also a good product.
If, after reading this blog and my book, you don’t feel comfortable figuring things out on your own (i.e. doing the symptoms questionnaire and respective amino acids trials), a good place to get help is the GABA Quickstart Program (if you have low GABA symptoms). This is a paid online/virtual group program where you get my guidance and community support. There are many moms in the program who are having much success with their kids.
You can then use this knowledge to then trial DPA and other amino acids or move on to the Amazing Aminos for Anxiety Program and get help there.
If you are a practitioner, join us in The Balancing Neurotransmitters: the Fundamentals program. This is also a paid online/virtual program with an opportunity to interact with me and other practitioners who are also using the amino acids with success with their clients/patients.
I would love your feedback. Do you use gelatin or collagen regularly i.e. daily or weekly? And why do you use it? How do you use it and what benefits do you notice?
Have you noticed any worsening of mood or an increase in anxiety or any of the other low serotonin symptoms? Do you take tryptophan to offset the fact that gelatin or collagen doesn’t contain any tryptophan?
Have you done the off/on test with collagen/gelatin and what was the outcome?
I’d love your feedback in the comments. Be sure to share what you’re using (collagen or gelatin and the brand), how much, how often you consume it, what you take it with, how much caffeine you consume, how much protein you consume on a daily basis and what kind of protein, and how you react to home made bone broth. If you’re comfortable with sharing how you score on the low serotonin questionnaire (now or in the past i.e. are you prone to low serotonin) and if you’re using a SSRI (or have in the recent past), this may help us piece the puzzle together.
Wow, had no idea. Will stop the collagen!
Michele
I’m not suggesting anyone stops using collagen – just that they experiment to figure out if it may be an issue for them and then adjust things so it can be used with no issues.
Have you been noticing worsening anxiety/depression? I’d love to hear what you’ve been using (the brand), how much, how often you consume it, what you take it with, how much protein you consume on a daily basis and what kind of protein, and how you react to home made bone broth? If you’re comfortable with sharing how you score on the low serotonin questionnaire and if you’re using a SSRI (or have in the recent past), this may help us piece the puzzle together.
Thanks, I just noticed a return of my depression and am taking SSRI meds. I was going to call my doctor and request a change in meds (as sometimes after several years a medicine will stop working as well). Then I remembered that I began taking collagen every morning with the SSRI and looked up depression and collagen- and this page came up! I am thankful for this information and will experiment and stop the collagen first; then add tryptophan back in with collagen, but not at the same time as the SSRI. I am hoping this works as the depression is very bad.
Marta
I’m sorry to hear about the depression but I’m glad you found this article and look forward to hearing what you discover.
I started taking Collagen daily as part of the Dr. KellyAnne bone broth diet plan. Dosage was one spoon morning and one in the afternoon. All of a sudden I started having very bad nightmares. Stopped the collagen, nightmares went away.
Kiera
Thanks for sharing – this is interesting. Was it a collagen-only product or did it have any additional vitamins or minerals added to it?
I started taking collagen about a month ago. I had no idea it had seretonin depleating side affects, but after increasing anxiety and pretty extreme depression, plus an inability to focus and horrible night terrors, I decided to look it up and found your blog. Thank you!
I was enjoying collagen as it helped with my IBS really well but I am afraid to stay on collagen and go the tryptophan route as this has been so horrible and frankly i’m not in a great state of mind to sort this out. I will read your article on that more carefully. I do take GABA, taurine and tyrosine together which has been helpful.
I look forward to any feedback on this!
Yes! I’ve taken wellbutrin sr for anxiety & depression for over 15 years. 6 months ago started taking 3 tablets of collagen (type 1 & 2) supplements daily. I noticed an inrease in anxiety & severe enough to cause minor tremor onoccassion. The only thing different in my routine wad the collagen. I stopped it last week & I think I’m noticing less anxierty?
Martha
Thanks for sharing. Please let us know how you feel in a few weeks once you’ve been off it for awhile.
Gosh I be been using collagen from vital proteins for a month now and been noticing drastic mood swings I keep crying for no reason my husband keeps commenting Iam acting weird and I felt that too always sad and depressed and feeling useless I also have heart palpitations recently and never occurred to me that it must have been the collagen in very informative article and I feel good to know that Iam not alone in this !
I started using Collagen, and my axiety, heart rate, went out the roof. I do take antidepressants and other mental health medications, but was completely unaware of this sort of serious side effects.
I’ve experienced the same results after taking collagen supplements. How long does it take for it to clear out of my system? thx
I was up researching what the heck was wrong because I have been up 24 hours, moody, depressed, tired, and highly anxious. I am prescribed anti-anxiety med/mood stabilizer for years with no problem. I just started taking multi collagen Complex Type I, I, iii, IV and X in a 2000 mg capsule for enhanced absorption (hype or not?) on an empty stomach midday. I feel nervous, jumpy and irritable with obvious insomnia.
I have taken collagen peptide 6gm.after taking collagen I have severe insomnia and headache continue 3y6m.i am always feeling hot not feeling cold.pl save my life.is it creates brain inflammation?
Santosh
I don’t have my clients continue with anything that is causing adverse effects. We start with looking into the possibility it is affecting serotonin levels
Hi Trudy
I have just been reading your information about the effects of collagen on some people. I was having increasing insomnia and mind racing for hours in the middle of the night. I have been using collagen for a couple of years… two scoops a day in a smoothie. (Vital Proteins collagen peptides -beef) Immediately after I stopped the collagen I slept better! What a relief! I am going to avoid it for awhile… though it is hard to find a protein powder that delivers that much protein and no sweetener.
Generally I consider myself a GABA person, but maybe I need to relook at l-tryptophan.
Can you tell me more about your online support group for people trying to determine what aminos work best for them, how much and how often?
Thanks! Dorothy
Dorothy
Glad you made the connections and are doing better. What do you mean by “it is hard to find a protein powder that delivers that much protein and no sweetener.” The big problem is that collagen is not a complete protein and it concerns me that it is being promoted as a protein replacement
How has GABA been helping?
We closed the GABA Quickstart but the online support will be available again when we relaunch the new and improved Amazing Aminos for Anxiety program. Best is to sign up here to get notified https://www.anxietynutritioninstitute.com/gabaquickstart/
Thanks so much for this interesting information. I have had heart palpitations/flutters for a few weeks and thought maybe it was coffee or a glass of wine, but I never used to get them from both coffee or wine at all.
Then I realized I’ve been on bovine collagen powder for the past few weeks.
This definitely is the cause of my heart racing and I’ve noticed my moods are up and down, mostly down!
I’m going to stop using it for a few weeks and see if I notice a difference.
I know I’m sensitive to a lot of products so this makes so much sense.
Thanks again!
Hi. Just recently started adding the collagen to my diet. I have noticed it has definitely cased my heart to race. After reading all of the responses I can also agree with the crazy dreams at night
Collagen gave me heart palpitations too. After stopping the collagen, heart palpitations went away!
Hi there – Was really interested to read your comment – I’ve had heart palpitations for a few weeks now and even been sent to a cardiologist but they can’t seem to figure out whats wrong. I have been taking bovine collagen for a few weeks as well. Did you notice a difference?
Hi Trudy,
I had an interesting thing happen. I’ve taken collagen hydroslate for years but take tryptophan before bed and was fine. I switched to Arthroben a collagen for joint issues with arthritis stayed on the tryptophan at night but got very depressed, crying often and just not myself. Went off it and my mood has lifted. Wondering if I added tryptophan in the afternoon if that might work. Take a small amount of SSRI (2.5 mg) in the AM so don’t want to take too much tryptophan.
Gloria
This is very interesting! I’m familiar with this Designs for Health product, which as you know, is “collagen peptides Fortigel® and Verisol®, as well as the flavonoids baicalin from Scutellaria baicalensis and catcechin from Acacia catechu.” https://shop.designsforhealth.com/arthroben
I see no difference in the collagen but baicalin does have antidepressant effects – Antidepressant Effect of Baicalin Extracted from the Root of Scutellaria baicalensis https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/13880200600878684/ And catechin (from green tea) has an impact on serotonin – Catechin from green tea enhances the serotonin release in rat brain https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/psjproc/2008/0/2008_0_104_2/_article. This paper mentions serotonin briefly – Effect of Acacia catechu (L.f.) Willd. on Oxidative Stress with Possible Implications in Alleviating Selected Cognitive Disorders https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4780764/.
If these compounds are impacting serotonin in the same the bedtime tryptophan was I would suspect there would be no need for an afternoon dose but the only way to know if to do a trial.
I can’t be sure if this is the mechanism but I’m intrigued and would like to dig deeper. Can you share how quickly you noticed this change and confirm nothing else changed with diet, supplements, hormones/menstrual cycle, medications etc? Have you done a start-stop trial to make sure it really is what it appears to be? And what dose of tryptophan were you taking and how long had you been taking it? How quickly after stopping it did your mood lift – right away/a day or 2? If you decide to do an afternoon trial of tryptophan please share those results too.
Thanks for sharing and asking this question. I’m excited to find out if this product may be a solution for folks who are prone to low serotonin.
Hallelujah, I have been in a depressed state since around the time I started taking collagen powder (the last month). I was on the verge of going to the doctor for a prescription which I am normally, absolutely against pharmaceuticals, choosing holistic alternatives. I’ve been so low and I couldn’t figure out what was going on. I made the connection when I realized the collagen powder was most likely causing my face to beak out, then it hit me that if it’s causing break outs (which I would think are from hormonal balances) then it could very well be affecting my moods as well. I got online and found this site which backs up my hunch.
No more collagen for me, definitely not worth it.
Kathy
Sorry to hear but glad you discovered the connection. Hope you’re doing better now! Keep in mind many of my clients do well with collagen and additional tryptophan – getting the best of both
I noticed that my anxiety, depression and brain fog appeared again after a very short time using Collagen peptides (2 weeks). I never put 2 and 2 together until this morning when I was really wracking my mind trying to figure out what I had done differently in my diet/supplement regime. I am so glad it’s not just me with these negative side effects . Needless to say the collagen was returned…not worth it!
exactly happened to me….OMG! I have been very depressed since I started to take collagen.
This page I think has probably actually saved my life. I’m not exaggerating. I recently had a traumatic break up which was heartbreaking because my ex tried to kill herself. But even so my dealing with everything has been completely out of proportion to the point where I started feeling suicidal thoughts myself recently. About a week ago I found this page pretty much by accident and realize that I have been taking large doses of collagen and gelatin. I really wondered why these strong negative urges Felt like they were happening to a third-party. It never occurred to me that a supplement like this could have that effect on me. As soon as I read this page and some of the responses I realize that in fact I believed I was having a reaction to the collagen and gelatin. Judging by everyone else’s responses mine seems to be unusually strong. After reading everything here I stopped taking collagen and gelatin and even less than a week later I now feel perfectly normal. Yet less than a week ago I was about to check myself into some form of care because of my suicidal thoughts. I am absolutely beyond grateful. I’m having Some pretty extensive tests to see about histamine reactions as well as low tryptophan /serotonin. I feel very strongly that this page has quite probably saved my life. The psychologist that I’ve been dealing with was initially very sceptical until we looked into this subject. Again I think my reaction is quite extreme but I am beyond grateful for you supplying this information.
Liam
I am sorry about your traumatic breakup and appreciate you sharing your results. Your reaction was extreme but such a profound turnaround in a week!
You do say you were consuming large amounts of collagen and gelatin. May I ask how much and how? and which products? Also what is your diet like?
It’s good to hear your psychologist is no longer skeptical. With regards to testing histamine levels – are your prone to histamine reactions? what tests is your practitioner planning to run?
And with regard to testing serotonin – what tests is your practitioner planning to run? I don’t consider urinary neurotransmitter testing to be of value. For serotonin I would use platelet levels. I would be very useful to see your levels while consuming collagen/gelatin and a week later. But I’m telling folks that the easiest way to know if it is the collagen/gelatin causing low serotonin is to consume it and add tryptophan and see how you feel.
I do hope your ex girlfriend is doing better. I have to wonder if she was also consuming large amounts of collagen and gelatin too?
Please do keep us posted on what else you find
So I found this article after having increased anxiety about 2 weeks into taking a collagen supplement. I often have this problem with anything that works for gut health. I can’t seem to find Any way to help my issues without having this issue.
Hi Shannon, I couldn’t take the collagen either. It caused me severe anxiety. I WAS able to take an immunoglobulin G (IgG) (IGG Protect) Powder that my doctor suggested, though, and it seems to have helped with my gut health with no side effects. It was very gentle. I have also heard that bovine colostrum or bovine immunoglobulins are helpful for some and gentle. I hope that you feel better, soon.
Thank you for sharing this. I will stop taken it immediately too because I have had a terrible crisis of depression and anxiety related to reinitiated taken collagen. I have had an increasing in anxiety issues for not reason. Recently, I noticed that every time I take collagen my anxiety appeared so it is pretty evidence for me the relation.
I can’t take collagen or gelatin because of the histamine/glutamate issue. It causes severe heart racing, lots of waking up in the middle of the night (much worse than usual such as when I eat salicylates), and awful dreams. I get this way even with bone broth that’s been cooked only a few hours.
Heidi
Thanks for sharing. And yes the histamine/glutamate issue is a big one with some people. Thanks for sharing about bone broth too – it’s a good correlation to make so you know it’s a histamine/glutamate issue and not due to low serotonin (or possibly a combination of both?). I’m going to update the blog with this (in the feedback section) and cover more on this in part 2.
I wonder if using GABA (to counter glutamate) and DAO enzymes (to counter histamine) would allow consumption of collagen/gelatin and bone broth?
After struggling with histamine issues for years, I have found great relief from histamine issues by following a carnivore diet. I eat meat (beef, eggs, lamb, some turkey and other meats), sea salt, and drink only water. I do not get bored; it’s actually simple and delicious. And the immense relief from the histamine issues has been well worth it. I was also having anxiety from collagen and bone broth, but with just eating meat and drinking water, I feel good and have had no flare ups. I am sharing because I hope it helps someone.
Do you really mean only meat, no other fats, no veggies? Is this a short-term strategy? If not, you will be building some pretty hefty nutrient deficiencies over time. Such a diet might be ok short term, but long term won’t serve you well.
I could have written this comment!
I get heart racing from bone broth, even meat broth and any slow cooked meat! Can’t have collagen either. I’m sensitive to MSG, too,
I would really love to find a way out of this!
Is it really the collagen or is it the coffee and tea people are mixing it into? Caffeine is not exactly great for mood is it? Perhaps people with burned out adrenals from caffeine will respond differently. Also, what type of collagen? Type 1, 2 or 5? Where is it coming from? What animal? What animal part? This article is way too general and the benefits of collagen far exceed the negative side if it is a good quality product. Mixing collagen with coffee cannot be good for anyone. I’ve seen vegans grow their hair back, look 10 years younger, etc when they add that little bit of collagen into their diet but it needs to be good quality; 5 types of bio-identical collagen which means bovine from between hide and muscle, not just bone. It seems that everyone and their dog is selling collagen these days and a lot of it is very low quality.
Yes, I agree with this. I was just thinking about this. I can drink a simple, not too strong, cup of green tea on a empty stomach, and I will swing from the chandeliers !! Coffee for sure wouldn’t be good for me either; but I can eat 80% dark organic chocolate on an empty stomach, and it never hypes up my nervous system. In fact, it calms me nicely. I attribute that to the fat in it; but it could be more than that. This is also true about the brands of Collagen. Thanks for contributing to this discussion, Sharie. Blessings, Pamela
Pamela
I’m the same with coffee and green tea – I’d be flying high! Unfortunately dark chocolate does a number on me too and also gives me a really bad headache 2 days later
The chocolate – if it’s dark – over 70% – might not affect you the same way because it has magnesium which is very calming.
Most coffees are contaminated with mold so could it be that you’re reacting to the mold? Some people use bullet proof coffee who claim they are low in mold / mycotoxins level.
Sharie
Right now I’m just sharing the feedback and gathering additional feedback but you raise some great points.
The coffee/tea/caffeine is a no-no for anyone with anxiety but many experience anxiety and/or depression when consuming collagen or gelatin with water or in a smoothie. This was the case for me too (I never have caffeine). And we have the research about it being used to lower serotonin to research behavior issues. I’m hoping to get additional feedback from readers so we can see if it’s an issue for some folks when coffee/tea/caffeine isn’t in the picture.
The type of collagen and the quality may well play a role in all of this and if this is the case it would be great to know which types are not causing issues and which are. I’d love to hear what brands you consider good quality? And if you personally use collagen and have found it to be helpful?
Trudy, the brand I use contains 5 types of collagen. It is sourced from grass-fed cows and the collagen is found between the muscle and hide, so not from the bones. It is cold processed with a high antioxidant Scandinavian berry blend, sort of like fermentation but not fermented; it is hydrolyzed. I noticed a big difference in my skin quality after only 3 days. A year later my entire body “lifted”, including my eyelids that had been drooping onto my eyelashes making me think I might need to get some surgery to ensure my vision wouldn’t be impeded but thankfully that has been prevented. I get it here: http://www.visidreamteam.net. The product is called Probita which means little bite of protein. There is also a meal replacement called Nufinna. For me I like chewing since it stimulates the hypothalamus so I prefer Probita. It seems to work almost like an adaptogen. When I take it at night I sleep better and during the day it provides energy.
Sharie
Thanks for sharing your positive experiences with your products. I feel all our collagen should be sourced from grass-fed cows!
Alma, hope this shows up in the right spot! Just a heads up that the Chocolate Probita is on sale 2 for 1 just today and tomorrow.
Alma, it’s http://www.visidreamteam.net.
Alma, would appreciate very much if you would order through Wayne. I’m happy to offer support and answer any questions you may have. 392023 is the ID number if you order via phone.
Sharie, can you please tell us how much collagen you took a day to get such fantastic results? I appreciate so much your sharing your experiences with collagen & the brand you use. Now I just need to figure out how much to take a day, thanks! Also, did you take it in divided doses or only once a day?
I used 3-4 pieces at the very beginning and then lost the craving so went to the maintenance amount of 2 a day after a month or so. It’s been 4 years now so I don’t remember the exact time frame. My body felt like it was starving for it at the start. I had one very sick client with extreme body pain use about 8 a day to completely eliminate her issues (broken spine, fibromyalgia, opiate addiction). Everyone is different. I know my body well so just eat what I crave (I eat an extremely high protein diet) and there are times I eat 4 a day, especially while traveling when I eat nothing else but these. A 24 hour multi plane and bus trip require about ten for example. I’ve given up trying to find healthy food at train stations and airports and it’s way cheaper than junk food. They are always in my purse for emergency snacks.
Sharie, thank you so much for your response! I am fascinated with your saying that after a year your entire body “lifted.” I don’t know your age but speaking as a 65-year-old, that particularly interested me…I’m assuming this included droopy breasts as well?! And please tell me, do you receive comments that you look much younger than you are? (I assume you would look younger after so long on the collagen.) And did you continue to notice benefits after the one-year mark & even now, four years later? Your experience has been so encouraging to me!
For some reason there is no reply link so replying to your original post. I’m 50ish and yes I am always getting shocked looks when I tell people my age. I haven’t really aged since I’ve been taking it. Just a few more gray hairs. I have no flabby skin or cellulite anywhere. Double chin and droopy eyelids had great reversals. Breasts are okay but there’s only so much that can be done there as they don’t consist of muscle. Probably it would be good to work the muscles underneath a little more for lifting there but at my age and having breastfed for several years, I’m pretty happy they’re still as good as they are lol. My butt on the other hand is good and solid! The benefits for me are just staying the same and staying healthy. 🙂
Alma, did you get Wayne’s emails?
Sharie, there’s no “Reply” option under your comment so I’m having to reply to myself here. Yes, I received Wayne’s e-mails; thanks for asking. I wanted to order the Probita chews in the orange flavor but they are just so darn expensive. There seems to be some sort of program to join to become a distributor & it would be less expensive, I think–not sure???–but I would be my only customer. I couldn’t figure out the details or the price if I joined this program.
Yes, it seems pricey. I saved a lot of money on food since my body and brain were satisfied so it didn’t really cost me anything extra with the food costs deducted. I’m not saying that will work for you the same way. That’s just my experience. As a wholesale customer on autoship you get the same price as a distributor so no need to join anything. I love the Orange flavor. It’s new. All the flavors are good though and I alternate them.
Sharie, thank you for the heads-up about the chocolate Probita being on sale. I have misplaced the link for it–can you send it to me again so I can order?
Thank you!
Alma
Sharie, I looked back through your messages & found the link just before you re-sent it. Do I need to order through Wayne or can it be through whoever answers the phone? I plan to sign up as a preferred customer. BTW, I like their Arctic toothpaste too!
After reading this article, I decided to give Great Lakes collagen to my anxiety type teen. She seems to be super sensitive to serotonin producers and/or methylators. She can not tolerate 5htp, SAMe, St John’s wort, eggs, cashews, glutamine supplement. She has been better with supplements l-theanine and glycine, b6, niacin…. We ran out of glycine and I didn’t reorder it yet because I was unsure it was doing much. She seems to be toleranting the collagen very well. In fact, she seemed to perk up a lot. Let’s see if it continues. I have seen that before with giving her tyrosine , only to have the effect wear off. There appears to be a true balance threshold of competing aminos . I’m hoping we can find that .
Hi, which brand of collagen do you recommend?
Oh, this caught my eye since I have just in the last several months been taking collagen, and have upped the dosage radically in the past month or more. I have taken a few brands, but settled in on Dr. Axe’s brand because it also feeds the brain. I noticed right away on all collagens that I am energized, and can fast longer before I eat bigger meals for the day. I have been taking it on an empty stomach stirred into my best drinking water. I am 68 years old and have overcome 40 years of dental mercury poisoning. I could tell my body is very low in collagen. I have also used gelatin (Healthy Mama’s brand some over the last couple of years). Right now I am taking 3 scoops of this per day at one sitting. I absolutely love it for a mini meal replacement. I may drink some hot chaga tea with it and have some very dark organic chocolate with it too. This is really yummy good in this cooler weather. If anything, all this collagen picks me up and makes me feel even higher and victorious in my daily life. It is totally AMAZING to me. BUT since I am encouraging everyone I know to take this stuff, this is very good information for me to be aware of. THANKS so much for keeping us up on so many good things. Shalom Blessings, Pamela
Pamela
Thanks for your lovely feedback – I love that you say “it picks me up and makes me feel even higher and victorious in my daily life”.
I’d love to hear how much protein you consume on a daily basis and what kind of protein, and how you react to home made bone broth? If you’re comfortable with sharing how you score on the low serotonin questionnaire and if you’re using a SSRI (or have in the recent past), this may help us piece the puzzle together as to why some people do so well on it.
What I have been hearing is that some people use it as a “mini meal replacement” (like you mentioned) or use it instead of another protein powder (like whey or pea or beef protein powder that does contain tryptophan) and are not getting enough protein from other sources (like wild fish, eggs, grass-fed meat, pastured chickens). I suspect this could be causing issues for some
Thank you Trudy for your comments and questions. I went to find that questionnaire on serotonin, and I only found a list of things to evaluate about that. From that I would say I am not particularly low on serotonin any longer. When I was highly amalgam mercury poisoned for 40 years, that was another ball game all its own.
I am affected by lack of sunshine, living in Oregon. When I see the sun, summer or winter, I run to get in it 🙂 It is a high drawing card for me, and energizes me. Right now in the fall, it is like I am storing it up for winter now. I hit it hard in the spring, back off some in the summer heat, and then hit it hard again in the fall. The sun is like nourishing food to me. I have a homemade sun blind and get all the sunbathing in I reasonably can. Sometimes it over-energizes me and I have to back off. In the winter I am starving for it. 🙂
Mercury poisoning can make someone very anxious, nervous, hyper-active, and even “down” once it is wearing your body out. I have gone through a lot in cleansing that stuff out of my body over the last 12 years. I have come a long way out of that. I am 68 years old now.
I will also say that music….Christian music particularly, but all good music really picks me up and lifts me high above many difficulties in life. My faith in God too, of course, lifts me as well.
I don’t really measure how much protein I consume on a daily basis. I have taken up the Ayurveda approach of listening to what my body needs NOW, at this given moment, and that is what I eat. I eat until I am satisfied, much or little. I tend to do a lot of intermittent fasting, and I tend toward this fasting in the morning as a cleansing time, with noon or so being when I begin to eat foods, starting with the Collagen now in this season of my life.
My favorite wholesome protein is raw goat milk, thick with its cream. This is SO GOOD to me. Sometimes I will stir some blackstrap molasses into the milk, and I just started stirring Collagen into this mix also. It tastes like a thin chocolate malt to me, like this, and it is hard to stop drinking. I can drink 3 glasses of this down with no problem. I have to make myself stop. It is Utterly delicious to me. I am 68 years old now, and I weigh in around 115 lbs. I have just a little bit of belly fat that came upon me in the last few years. I think due to all the stress of a very difficult “supposed” husband, who was more like my “arch enemy”. Finally, he moved out 2 months ago after our divorce, and I have since felt like I died and went to heaven. 🙂 That emotional stress and abuse is very taxing to live with. That on top of mercury poisoning is horrific. My faith in God is what carried me through to better days. I have major financial issues, but I am not even worried about it…..because the emotional relief is so exhilarating, and I have faith that God is solving the finances for me, now that I can live fully FREE of this man’s negative impact on me as a daily assault. I LOVE living alone and doing what pleases me, instead trying to please someone else who is so impossible to please. 🙂 I am sharing all these things because I believe they are all factors that contribute to the way our health and life go.
I do make my own homemade bone broth and drink that, but more in spells. I will be drinking more of that plain and in soups, now that it is getting to be colder weather. I do Amazingly well on ocean salmon, though I am getting concerned about the toxic levels in that now. I eat only grass fed, organic lamb; including heart and liver some. I have them in the freezer so I pull them out and prepare them when I am in the mood for them. I am not a big meat eater, and I eat more or less depending on the season and my hunger for it. I eat fruits and vegetables, some Nancy’s brand whole fat, plain organic yogurt mixed with flax seed oil, and just a touch of blackstrap molasses. I don’t eat any grains any longer. I make my own strong goat milk kefir, with added turmeric and powdered rose hip. I likely go through 1 to 1-1/2 gallons of raw goat milk per week; which includes my kefir making as well.
I do not take any medications of any kind; not even over the counter type. I take various supplements as I feel the need; but I believe good food is the most important basic nutrition I need. I must eat a good meal in the evening so I can sleep well at night. Vetiver and food knock me out for great sleep. Food calms my body. Vetiver essential oil has had a profound calming affect upon my body and sleep. Meat is the highest calming/grounding food I can eat. I use various essential oils from Mountain Rose Herbs. I believe the Vetiver has helped my nervous system recover from mercury poisoning and from the trauma of my “false marriage”.
I can’t think of anything else significant to share. I hope all this information is helpful. Blessings, Pamela
I just realized that I did forget to say that I regularly beat 3 raw eggs (organic, free range) into around 2 cups of goat milk and add spices and Celtic salt to this, and drink it down at least 4 days per week. This is really acceptable to my taste now, once I added in the salt and put in the fresh ground pepper, cayenne pepper, thyme, sage, garlic and onion powders. I could hardly tolerate this without the salt. I didn’t like it with cinnamon, when I tried to make an eggnog type drink; though I didn’t try Celtic salt in that one. I normally love cinnamon, but not in this drink. Blessings….
Wow!!! Today I was actually googling side effects of some herbs I started taking recently because I’ve been feeling uncharacteristically depressed on a few days the last couple weeks. I also have been consuming added “collagelatin” and collagen powder (both from Bulletproof).
I didn’t know about this link and will pay more attention and order some tryptophan to try at the same time.
I feel like I’ve used collagen in the past without any issues, but perhaps when combined with other stressors or in higher quantities (yesterday I had a scoop of collagen plus some “jello” that I made with the collagelatin”). Thanks for sharing your learning as always!
Hi Erin
This article was good timing for you! Thanks for sharing and you raise some good points! Is current stress a factor? Is over-consumption a factor? I am hearing from some folks that they are consuming higher quantities than in the past using using it in desserts, in a morning beverage and more.
I’d love to hear back from you as you experiment with finding a good balance for you and with the addition of tryptophan.
Some additional questions I’m asking everyone… how much caffeine you consume, how much protein you consume on a daily basis and what kind of protein, and how you react to home made bone broth. If you’re comfortable with sharing how you score on the low serotonin questionnaire (now or in the past) and if you’re using a SSRI (or have in the past), this may help us piece the puzzle together.
Caffeine – yes because the collagen powder was going in my coffee in the morning, which is consistent whereas the collagen was not.
Actually have been eating much less animal protein lately than usual (long story) and I know that is one thing that can help keep our natural serotonin levels up so perhaps that is why I was noticing these changes.
What’s standing out on the serotonin quiz is more depression, digestive issues, pain, and difficulty sleeping – maybe “high stress” more than anxious or worried. Like anyone, there are compounding factors going on – but good to be aware of and trial. I appreciate reading everyone’s input here.
what is SSRI?
Robyn
Selective serotonin update inhibitor i.e. a commonly prescribed type of antidepressant such as
Citalopram (Celexa)
Escitalopram (Lexapro)
Fluoxetine (Prozac)
Paroxetine (Paxil, Pexeva)
Sertraline (Zoloft)
Vilazodone (Viibryd)
I take great lakes gelatin – 1 Tbsp with breakfast mixed into my grain porridge (amaranth, quinoa and flaxseed) and followed by two eggs. No problems with depression or feeling down, but I am obviously getting tryptophan from the eggs in the same meal.
I have protein with every meal and aim at 20g of protein per meal, eggs, nuts, meat, fish.
I don’t drink coffee but have a cacao drink every day.
Although I have severe anxiety, I don’t think mine is low serotonin related. I used to take 5-HTP in the evening to help me sleep but when I stopped taking it for a few days, I actually slept better, so I’ve stopped it all together now.
Natalie
Thanks for sharing but do keep in mind that low serotonin can cause both depression and anxiety. Other factors to consider are the histamine/glutamate effects on anxiety and even cacao.
Re the 5-HTP many people find it too stimulating esp if cortisol is high – and often do well with tryptophan instead
Sorry if I wasn’t clear. I’ve had anxiety since I was 3.
I have only been eating gelatin for about a year now. No correlation with gelatin and anxiety. I mentioned that I had no depression from gelatin either but didn’t make it clear that the anxiety is long-term ongoing and wasn’t made worse by putting gelatin into my diet.
Thanks for the info re the 5-HTP. I have tried tryptophan in the past as well. Pretty much I”ve tried everything for my anxiety over the years. There’s not much that makes a dent in it.
I have been wondering why I have been feeling so depressed (esp. upon waking in the a.m.) for a while! I do put multi-collagen powder in my coffee every morning for about 4 months now never a clue that could be causing anxiety & depression. I don’t really want to stop taking it..should I add tryptophan to my routine? I also take 10 milligram bp med, 1 daily multi-vitamin, omega 3 caps/day, 2 magnesium tabs, and glucosamine chondondrite. I also have issues with female pelvic pain (specifically painful sex) and use vaginal pill for that (not working). I am at my wits end here..any suggestions. Really do want to know about taking the tryptophan tho. Thank you!
Robyn
I can’t provide specific advice via the blog but have my clients do the amino acid questionnaire, review the precautions and do a trial of tryptophan if they have low serotonin symptoms.
With pelvic pain we look at low GABA (https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/how-gaba-eases-agonizing-rectal-pain-spasms/ and https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/rectal-spasms-gaba-pelvic-floor-work-gluten-removal-squats/) and oxalates (https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/vulvodynia-oxalates-gaba-tryptophan-physical-therapy/). Also find a pelvic floor PT if not already working with one.
Well this is certainly a timely discussion for me too! I just had my first ever scoop of collagen today and whamo I see your article, Trudy!! I am prone to anxiety and now concerned about taking collagen. I cannot tolerate chlorella for instance, it really sets my anxiety off even in the smallest amounts. I am vegetarian but upon the advice of my PT I am taking Marine Collagen to help heal knee tendons and hopefully plump up my 53 y/o very dry skin. I look forward to following this thread.
Thank you for all you do, it is greatly appreciated : D
Blessings, jean
Jean
Thanks for sharing and keep us posted how you respond to the marine collagen. If you’ve been following me awhile you probably know I favor quality animal protein for supporting mood in women and would love to suggest wild fish and pastured eggs if you’re open to this – for anxiety, tendons and skin health.
Trudy,
I unfortunately experienced anxiety the first night I tried the collagen. I had it in a spinach based smoothie for dinner (it was the only new ingredient). I felt stimulated like too much caffeine and verged on a panic attack. Fortunately for my having read your timely article I knew what was going on and was able to ride it out. The collagen has been sent back. I am eating pastured eggs and wild caught salmon now. Thank you so very much for your reply and continued invaluable work!
~ jean
Hi Trudy,
I love your articles.
Found these two articles that may help:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1215758/pdf/biochemj00865-0151.pdf
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22436098
Thanks!
Dr Sarah
Thank you! I love the one from 1955 and had not seen this one. I am planning to mention the tryptophan-fortified collagen in part 2. What is your interest and experience in the topic and what have you observed with your patients?
Hi Trudy and everybody : )) this is such a surprising article for me! I tried a few times for some months each time, to incorporate bone broth in my diet because of its benefits especially for the GI track. All the trials were disappointing. I felt so bad: tired, not sleeping well, anxiety in my body (physical anxiety) and also not an improvement in the GI. I was so frustrates and tried again and again. It never made me feel better. I was thinking may be it it the Glutamate or Histamine and it might be – but may be it is also the serotonin.
I wish to mention that many years ago I took for less then a year an SSRI and it was like wonder – it made me feel wonderful! I stopped it gradually because I didn’t want to be dependent. After a few months the anxiety – especially the physical (Which is my main issue) came back. I tried during the years many things and still do but nothing was helping. So I decided to try again the SSRI almost a year ago and i felt so bad! All the symptoms were aggravated. I tried introducing it slowly and tried the same brand name as once and another and i didn’t have any choice only to quit. So now I’m confused – If the SSRI makes it worse – does it mean may be I have now too much serotonin? and if so the Gelatin should help because it is lowering the Serotonin (by the mechanism you mentioned) …making me confused. this is really all about biochemical individuality ! By the way I discovered lately I have a parasite in stool – may be it is causing the symptoms? All the Best
Look into Dr William Walsh’s research… For some people with certain types of imbalances, SSRIs make them worse. I think it may be low-folate.
You gotta check if the parasite in your stool is Candida. I heard this is what is causing many to feel depressed and anxious. There is a cure so nothing to worry and good luck!
Wow, I had no idea this could be an issue! I have been on an SSRI for 10 years, I’ve tried tapering down a number of times but seems like it really does help me stay mentally stabilized. I’ve been frustrated and confused about whether it is “OK” for some people to actually need to stay on an SSRI long term. I follow Dr. Kelly Brogan and its been confusing for me. I live in Canada and we cannot get tryptophan supplements here, also I never know how to adjust doses with an SSRI in the mix. I use alot of l-theanine and passionflower and magnesium. I’m currently also taking Zoplicone to helps sleep, I hate being dependent on it, but without sleep I break down mentally. Currently am stuck with taking it. I have severe PTSD and huge anxiety issues. GABA does help but only in extremely tiny doses. I have used alot of collagen as protein in smoothies because it really helps decreases joint pain from old injuries and trauma. I had run out a few months ago and decided to take a break from collagen. The pain came back so severely that I restarted collagen. After reading this article I’m realizing that my anxiety levels have been much higher since eating it again. Also terrible sleep issues, some nights not getting any sleep at all. Racing heart, palpitations, etc. I had no idea there could be a connection with Collagen/gelatin, it coincides perfectly with the timing of things. It makes me feel some hope. Please hurry on part 2!!!!!
I’m really curious whether the collagen with tryptophan added would be a suitable alternative. My local health food store carries that brand. I eat animal protein usually several times a day in small amounts, eggs, fish, chicken, beef etc. also small amounts of almond butter. Also raw sourcraut and homemade goats’ milk kefir. The only goats milk I have access to is pasteurized from the grocery store. I work very hard mindfulness , meditation, therapy and all those mind body techniques to help with anxiety. and PTSD. NO caffeine, it affects me terribly. I drank alot of bone broth 5 years ago to heal my gut, I honestly don’t know what impact it had on my anxiety levels, whether it made it worse or not. I was a crazy anxious wreck at that time. I currently don’t have access to bones so I’m not having any broth.
Bethany
Thanks for sharing what you have found when adding back collagen and so glad you’re making the connection. When someone gets great benefits like you describe (with the joint pain and injuries) I would want to figure out how to continue taking it with none of the anxiety, insomnia, racing heart etc.
It may be due to serotonin being lowered and a trial of tryptophan or 5-HTP would provide that answer. I’m on the fence about collagen with tryptophan with collagen added – on the one hand it may address the issue but on the other hand it may be too much or too little for some people or not needed at all for others.
And then if it’s not a low serotonin issue, the other mechanisms would need to be considered and addressed (like histamine, glutamate, oxalates etc) – more on this in part 2.
Hi Trudy,
I tried taking gelatin to help me sleep. It didn’t. It did make me groggy during the day and really groggy the next morning. I tried this a couple years ago, repeatedly, with the same results over and over. So now I just add a tiny amount to my room mate’s cat’s food since it seems like she has arthritis and as I still have a bottle of it.
For the last 10 months I’ve been making homemade chicken soup and bone broth. I freeze the stock in portions and I freeze the bone broth in an ice cube tray. I have the soup/stock for breakfast every morning. and sometimes add a bone broth cube to it. I can’t handle very much of the bone broth. I get migraines and vestibular migraines and I have problems with histamine.
Here is an interesting read on gelatin with people posting comments:
http://www.judytsafrirmd.com/gelatin-for-anxiety-sleep-and-appetite-suppression/
After reading here, I’m now taking a few days off from my daily chicken stock/soup/broth to see if that helps any with the anxiety and depression. I desperately need to heal my gut and the stock has been the only remedy I’ve been able to tolerate without triggering a vestibular migraine. If I feel it helps me feel better to cut back, then maybe a daily dose is too high of a dose for me. More trial and error.
Steph
I’d love to hear what you find. Keep in mind I’m not suggesting everyone stops collagen/broth but rather they figure out if it’s causing anxiety or depression symptoms and address it accordingly (with tryptophan if it is due to serotonin being depleted)
Hi Trudy,
I stopped my broth for three days. But I did have protein for breakfast every day. (I find that if I don’t have protein every 3-4 hrs, but pref. every 3 hrs, my blood sugar drops and I get migraines and emotional and can even get shaky.) The anxiety and depression did not lessen without the soup and in fact I was feeling angrier and generally worse. I really don’t like when I just feel angry about everything. So on the fourth day I had my breakfast chicken soup and felt better that day. Not good, just not angry. Also migraine headaches were increasing without the soup. It is hard to put everything on the soup and reach any conclusions because I am extremely stressed by a few life situations right now and the weather here is unseasonably hot which is a migraine trigger for me. But I do feel like my coping skill was lessened by not having my daily homemade chicken soup. It does feel like medicine to me, in a good way.
I encountered this article while researching the exact opposite: I have been taking 20g/day grassfed beef gelatin (Vital Proteins) for the last month, initially aiming for its effects on skin/hair/joints, but have been noticing that I am calmer, strangely. I’m usually quite an agitated person, but now, my heart doesn’t start pounding as soon as an anxiety-generating thought occurs in my mind, I keep a steady breath and feel less tension. I don’t think there has been any noticeable effect on my sleep. I notice that the one positive feedback quoted in the article is from someone who says they have ADD, and I have been diagnosed myself with ADD recently. Perhaps, like the drugs prescribed to treat ADD, anything that affects serotonine and/or dopamine has effects opposite to those usually expected for us ?
Chloe
Great to hear the positive benefits you are experiencing with gelatin
Trudy, thank you so much for everything you do!
My question is – if collagen and gelatine lower serotonin, does that mean bone broth will do?
PS, I’ve never had much success with using collagen as far as digestion goes. I’ve also always suspected that instead of having a calming effect from the glycine in the collagen and the bone broth, that it has a more stimulatory effect, even if taken during the day – not good for sleep. I have the same issue with taking GABA, L-theanine and magnesium in most of its forms. That they are not calming and I have to avoid them before bed time.
LH 🙂
Lisa
I would suspect bone broth could have similar effects. What have you found? Hopefully we’ll get some more feedback on this from other readers.
Thanks for the feedback on collagen and other nutrients – possibly not tolerated or possibly too much for your own needs?
Interesting! I am going to do a trial and see what happens. I have had some rather inconsistent starts with taking collagen. Well a couple of weeks ago, I got back to taking my supplements, and out of nowhere my anxiety was through the roof and my heart was racing. It scared me enough that I was in tears and my poor husband didn’t know what to do with me. Also had trouble sleeping. Waking up worrying (I am a sleeper). I also take iron, and know for whatever reason that my anxiety gets worse when I don’t take it regularly, so got back to taking iron. I haven’t taken the collagen since, and have felt fine. I didn’t make the connection at the time, and stuck with the iron and vitamin C only. So now I am wondering if this is the link. I just thought it was something else going on. Thank you!!
Swhynot
I’d love to hear what you find. And as I’ve been saying, I’m not suggesting anyone stops collagen if they see benefits but rather they figure out if it’s causing anxiety or insomnia and address it accordingly (with tryptophan if it is due to serotonin being depleted)
I will for sure. I am going to add Tryptophan and see. Fingers crossed!
I have a real interest in certain foods causing severe depression. My experience is with eggs. If I eat whole eggs, I get severely depressed. I often wonder about people who perhaps have the same condition and are in institutions, when the solution could be as simple as not eating a certain food!! I think there is a lot more to be researched regarding causes of certain foods causing depression – a disrupter of chemical processes no doubt.
Karen
You are correct! Any food or nutrient can be problematic as we are all unique. The mechanisms differs widely: likely tryptophan depletion for collagen as I’ve laid out here but also a histamine/glutamate/oxalate reaction in some; a delayed food reaction/IgG for eggs/wheat/dairy/soy are a common; autoimmune reactions like gluten; grains increasing depression/anxiety/insomnia due to SIBO; the dairy casomorphin and gluten gluteomorphin effect and so on.
You might try eating the yolk only. I have an allergy to egg white but I can eat the yolk with seemingly no problem.
The fact that collagen makes some people anxious and not others, some people are helped by the addition to tryptophan is an indication to me about how we each have unique genetic expressions. Particular genes that regulate breaking down compounds like dopamine, epinephrine, serotonin, estrogen, etc. impact our moods minute by minute. Environment, food and stress can alter our genetic expression so we can’t just supplement our way out of what Dr. Ben Lynch calls “dirty genes”. The best we can do is try things out, be our own detectives and also know our conditions can change at any time based on the variables that come with living life. With your help, Trudy, we have a running chance at finding our own paths through the morass of our individual chemistries. Thank you for all that you do!
Hi Conni
I totally agree. More and more I see that food, supplements etc need to be tailored to indviduals, not be just blanket recommendations for the whole population
Natalie and Conni
Absolutely! There is no one size fits all with anything we consume. Unfortunately this does not seem to be common knowledge when it comes to collagen.
Conni
Yes we are all unique and there is no one-size fits all and certainly no universal superfood! Being our own detectives is key – this is why all my clients keep a food mood log.
Wow! I am so intrigued by this. I have been ingesting glutamine and collagen to heal my gut but I’ve had terrible anxiety off an on this year. I am going to stop taking them to see if this is exacerbating the anxiety and panic. Thanks Trudy
Lynette
Do let us know what you find. I’d consider the glutamine and collagen separately (as each one could be factors) and also consider looking at low serotonin symptoms and a trial of tryptophan to confirm if it’s the serotonin-lowering effects or something else in the collagen
This is interesting! I give my adult autistic spectrum child an avocado pudding each day with gelatin and hidden supplements. I have been out of gelatin (from Argentina) for about 2 weeks and have been using chia seeds instead to thicken. I was noticing a difference in her behavior for the better but did not know exactly what. She has been more calm and not as edgy. Thank you for this and please continue to update.
Linda
Thanks for sharing about your daughter’s experience – it’s very interesting and helpful to be getting all this feedback. I’d love to hear if you figure out any other connections and stay tuned for part 2 (and likely more posts after that)
Couldn’t this also be a glycine problem? If I remember correctly, glycine can be a problem for those with certain GAD1 SNPs due to increased glutamate and decreased GABA.
Brian
Thanks for mentioning this – I’ll look into this for part 2. If you have any links you can share on this topic that would help
Here is some information I’ve found. Nothing that I would consider “scholarly”, but maybe you know where to look for additional references”
http://nancymullanmd.com/glutamate-and-gaba-balance/
I’m having trouble locating the other information that led me to the conclusion about glycine possibly causing and increase in glutamate and decrease in GABA
Trudy, if you know that serotonin is in fact low would it be best to avoid collagen, bone broth etc. or just to supplement with tryptophan? This is all so complicated. One thinks they are doing something positive and it ends ups causing another problem.
Lynette
Since there are many benefits of bone broth – and if someone is getting the gut healing/skin healing benefits – if there are any adverse effects like increased anxiety the first step is to figure out if it’s due to low serotonin and if yes then I would suggest a trial of tryptophan to see if this helps. Keep in mind the adverse effects people see can be due to low serotonin and/or possibly histamine, glutamate, oxalates etc
This is a great article. I Do have several symptoms when i take gelatin ( have tried several brands and dosis and it is always the same). The symptoms i have with gelatin or collagen are : heart racing, anxiety, mood issues. I have been following Ray Peat and Danny Roddy recommendations for about 3 years, but this is something i havent found an explanation.
Andrei
Thanks for sharing your symptoms. May I ask what the Ray Peat and Danny Roddy recommendations are that you have been following?
I keep thinking the issues of anxiety, heart racing, etc., all sound like symptoms of magnesium deficiency. Magnesium deficiency can be created by a number of things, among them too much calcium or too much Vitamin D, which increases calcium absorption; without Vitamin D, the body cannot absorb calcium. Is there any way collagen, gelatin or bone broth could affect–in this case increase–the body’s absorption of calcium, thereby creating a magnesium imbalance? I don’t believe any of these three supplements are particularly high in calcium but they do produce some of the same bone-strengthening effects usually attributed to calcium.
HI, this is interesting information about collagen protein. I had been taking the hydrolyzed collagen protein powder by Great Lakes. I put one serving which is 2 Tablespoons (12 grams of protein) in my coffee each morning. As a footnote, I am a very healthy eater. No sugar, lots of greens, grassed beef on occasion, almost all organic food, etc. no dairy, no ‘GMO’s, no gluten, etc. Feel wonderful, no aches or pains or complaints.
However, just recently I developed a rash on one side of my back. It was very mild and thought maybe something had bitten me. I had my annual skin check with my dermatologist at about that same time. Before my visit, I realized the very mild rash had traveled up back but with hardly any itching or discomfort. I did some research and thought maybe it could be shingles due to the pattern of the rash and it being on only one side of my back. When my doctor looked at it, she was thinking the same thing so she prescribed a 7 day round of meds (valtrex). It went away quickly.
I began to wonder what could have triggered this and found out that L arginine could be the culprit. I immediately stopped taking the collagen powder because it has over 1,000 mg of this amino acid in a serving. It can trigger or “feed” the shingles/chicken pox virus. Lysine is an antagonist to L arginine and if L arginine is predominate it can trigger / activate it. I am certain this is what happened to me. I will no longer take any protein powder, ever! Much of the food I eat boosts collagen production anyway and I will continue to eat healthy to keep my immune system healthy and make sure I am getting the nutrients my body needs. Just beware of this if you have the chicken pox virus in your body.
Hi Gerry
Thank you for sharing and well done for figuring this out. Glad you found the solution. The serotonin is just one aspect to be aware of and I’ll be addressing the other aspects in part 2 – one of which is the high arginine content of collagen.
I’ve heard reports it can trigger Epstein Barr Virus and herpes simplex and will share additional information in part 2. I have herpes simplex type 1 and I actually got a cold sore right after my trial of collagen and just made that arginine/lysine connection recently. I haven’t had one in years so it’s very possibly due to the collagen but I can’t be sure because all this did happen after my stressful Hurricane Harvey time/lack of sleep and back injury.
I do use lysine when I have a cold sore so theoretically lysine could be used to balance out the arginine if someone really wanted to continue with the collagen, although I wouldn’t risk it and especially not with more serious viruses like the shingles, EBV, and herpes simplex type 2 (genital herpes).
I’d love to share your story if I may – when I write about the arginine virus connection?
Thank you so much for your reply! You have my oermission to use my comments in Part 2 about collagen. So many people are taking collagen now and they need to have this information Thank you For keeping us informed!
Thanks Gerry!
I had a horrible case of shingles-first appeared as a rash, but never completely healed with the valtrex- ended up hospitalized for 5 days to get iv antivirals, had foot paralysis, they thought it was MS-had several MRI’s and Spinal Tap to confirm it was all related to the shingles thankfully. Had been doing the hydrolyzed collagen daily in my coffee but I did a lot of research and stopped completely when I realized the predominate l-arginine could be a trigger…i’m under 50 and my case was so severe-doctors were baffled..i did like the collagen in my coffee, but NEVER AGAIN! I eat healthy anyway but I still keep an eye on the l-arg/lysine balance.
I am in panic right now when I read your experience about the virus of shingles. I have a Bell’s palsy ( facial paralysis) two years ago and I remember I was taken collagen at that time. For intuition, I stopped to take collagen. But later I returned to take it. And now I am having a strange rash in my back too. Incredible how we destroy our body taking all those supplements without any garante of scientific prove. Because always they say “not side effects, everything is good about collagen”. They are lying.
Olga
For someone with active shingles I may be concerned about the arginine in collagen. A rash could also be due to a histamine reaction. I recommend checking with your doctor.
Sorry you’re experiencing this but thanks for sharing so we can create more awareness that there is no one-size fits all for everyone in every instance.
sO interesting, my husband and I are just about to start a 5 week leaky gut protocol, (he got ecoli in 2012 and has never really recovered). Of course, bone broth + collagen are at the top of the foods he can eat list. One of the reasons we are DOING this is because lately ths symptoms of his leaky gut have become much worse + are starting to include depression. Of course this article worries me more than a little- he can’t afford to lower his serotonin any farther! He also can’t afford not to heal hia gut :/ We will be sure to supplement with 5htp and GABA. Thanks for the heads up!!
Carly
I’m not suggesting that everyone needs serotonin support when using collagen – it’s a case by case basis and each person needs to assess their needs and adjust accordingly.
Keep in mind too that glutamine is gut healing too (https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/glutamine-calming-intense-sugar-cravings-gut-healing-low-blood-sugar/) and so is GABA (https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/gaba-offer-gut-protection-drinking-alcohol/ blog is about alcohol damage but it should apply in general)
Keep us posted
I have got him on Glutamine AND Gaba – so that’s FANTASTIC news 🙂 He is taking so many supplements right now he rattles (those two, DGL licorice, collagen, 5htp, probiotics, curcumin, b-vit and magnesium.)
Will definitely let you know if he sees a drop in mood now that we’ve added collagen!
Thank you 🙂
Hi Trudy
THANK YOU!
Since May 2016 I have slowly and successfully been tapering from the SSRI Sertraline moving from 50 mg to my current 13 mg dose with each reduction being about 4mg spaced at least two months apart. I have severe ME/CFS and had tried multiple times to come off the SSRI having originally been prescribed it when first unwell 26 years ago, but each time reductions had been GP (general practioner ) led and too fast. Since May 2016 I have made sure I eat good quality protein x3 daily plus consume limited refined sugar. I also kick started the reduction process with a daily 50mg dose 5htp but found i no longer needed this after 6 months.
However, after reading an article by Dr Kelly Brogan where she advised about the benefits of grass fed collagen I started taking 1tbsp in morning and 1tbsp before bed of the Great Lakes Gelatin 4 weeks ago and old symptoms such as negative thinking loops and wanting to disengage from others have returned. Until the collagen my emotional well being had been consistently stable ever since I began the ssri reduction process- I joked how much better I was now the supposed anti depressant was leaving my body! My gut has been telling me to stop the collagen but because i had read only positive things about it plus my skin was looking younger and brighter I ignored my instincts.
I shall now stop the collagen and report back if my mood improves again which i instinctively feel it shall.
Thank you for all the information and help you provide: I originally found the courage to taper off the sertraline SSRI after listening to an Anxiety Summit you hosted a couple years ago and my success has been the best medicine for my body and mind as the drug always worsened rather than helped my health.
Best wishes
Cat
Cat
Thanks for sharing and so happy to hear your wonderful results – and that the Anxiety Summit interviews gave you the courage to make these changes! Thanks too for sharing your collagen story which seems to be pretty typical for many who are prone to low serotonin. I’d love to hear the outcome when you stop it.
Do keep in mind that in order to continue using it, adding back the 5-HTP may be an option – so you get the skin benefits and no adverse mood impacts.
just re-subscribing to this post I hit the unsuscribe link by mistake
This is all so discouraging–I was planning to begin taking collagen but after reading about the side effects, I have serious doubts now.
Alma
As I mention in the article, some people seem to be affected and others do fine with it. Also, many who do notice mood and sleep impacts, do well when they also use 5-HTP and/or tryptophan.
I’ve used collagen protein intermittently for several years now; in recent months I’ve used it pretty regularly in my morning coffee. Haven’t noticed any issues, but I also take 5-HTP at night (and Tyrosine in the morning), most nights, which helps me fall asleep.
Jeamarie
Thanks for sharing – 5-HTP use seems to make a difference for many who may be prone to the tryptophan-lowering effects of collagen. I’m curious if you’ve tried additional tyrosine in the morning instead of coffee?
I’m curious if this is also the case with marine collagen? I use Vital Proteins, but haven’t used it long enough to notice a difference.
Jen
If you read the label you’ll see it doesn’t contain tryptophan https://www.vitalproteins.com/products/marine-collagen-peptides Many collagen products don’t even include a label like this so I’m pleased they do
Thanks, Trudy. Good to know. Now I am wondering about an amino acid complex supplement that I’m taking which also doesn’t contain tryptophan (Klaire Labs). Could that have a similar effect? It was recommended by my Naturopathic doc as I am trying to taper off of a low dose of Zoloft for anxiety (and prone to mild depression).
Jen
Excellent question and yes this is problematic too. All blends of free form amino acids should also contain tryptophan. Quite frankly I’m amazed and concerned so many don’t contain tryptophan. I list some here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-pyroluria-supplements/
Hi Trudy,
I’m studying Nutritional Medicine and have a history of anxiety/panic attacks and insomnia – so very interested to get a better understanding of this! I’m just hoping you can elaborate on how/why gelatine depletes serotonin? I understand that tryptophan isn’t present, but does it actually reduce serotonin or just not support it’s production??
For the record – I use gelatin and bone broths intermittently and have never noticed a problem, but haven’t really kept track of symptoms after eating it either, so I’ll try and take more notice!
Thanks,
Belinda
Belinda
It actually reduces serotonin. This paper has an excellent overview of the mechanism https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11331552
I’d love to hear your feedback as you start to keep track of symptoms. It’s often individuals with a history of anxiety/panic attacks and insomnia (and depression) that notice the effects more profoundly
Thanks for your reply Trudy – this is fascinating!
I’ve been eating gelatin gummies this week and sleeping really well, so that’s a plus 😉
Have MDS , have been using Dr AX collagen bone broth powder, do all both broth fpomulas, powdered or liquid have collagen Have anxiety , insomina, constipation. Have read that IV Vit C is good. YOUR INFO IS WONDERFUL .I am a Empath person, wrote a great book PLS ADVISE !
Hi Joanna
I’m afraid I don’t know what MDS is. If anxiety and insomnia starts after using broth/collagen I’d remove and see if they resolve and then consider a trial with serotonin support. Constipation can have many causes: diet, IBS/SIBO, not drinking enough water, thyroid etc
MDS is Myelodysplastic Syndrome
“…anxiety, insomnia, constipation”…these are all symptoms of magnesium deficiency. Is it possible, Joanna, that you are getting a high boost of calcium in your bone broth, which requires a corresponding amount of magnesium which you are not getting? An increase in calcium requires an increase in magnesium, or you will experience symptoms of Mg deficiency, which are eerily similar to the symptoms reported by some of the users of collagen, gelatin & bone broth.
According to a study done by the University of Maryland: “Inadequate magnesium appears to reduce serotonin levels, and antidepressants have been shown to raise brain magnesium. One study found that magnesium was as effective as tricyclic antidepressants in treating depression among people with diabetes.”
I question whether the lower serotonin caused by the ingestion of bone broth, collagen, gelatin, etc., is due to the higher calcium content of these supplemental foods, which calls for extra magnesium, which results in serotonin depletion when the required magnesium is not supplied. When I first came across this blog, I immediately thought of the Mg-Ca connection but found the Ca content of these supplements not to be high enough to affect Mg balance. I wonder, however, if whatever Ca they do contain is extremely well-absorbed. I am no doctor nor even a medical researcher…this is just my two cents on this puzzle. Trudy, I defer to your wisdom & medical experience to help us figure it out.
Alma
Thanks I haven’t looked into this mechanism but if you share a link to the study I’ll add it to the list.
There is plenty of evidence pointing to lowered serotonin simply because collagen and gelatin don’t contain tryptophan – I’ll be updating the blog with more about this. The studies also report that some people are affected (those with a prior history of anxiety or depression and/or history of SSRIs) and some are not which correlates with the feedback I’ve received.
Collagen Hydrolysate really seems to help to reduce my anxiety and help me sleep. Been taking it for a week.
Hi. I’m wondering if you could recommend a collagen supplement that has adequate amounts of tryptophan in it that won’t lower serotonin levels?
Danielle
I only know of one company who adds tryptophan (it’s a Canadian company) but am wary about this as we know some people don’t need it and some may need more and some may need less tryptophan. I am gathering more info …. and hopefully some feedback from companies selling collagen and gelatin.
Hi Everyone,
Just because collagen has no tryptophan, in my opinion, would not lower serotonin unless you were only consuming collagen over a period of time and no other nutrition, at least it would seem.
I wrote to Great Lakes (collagen/gelatin) Company with some of the above information and they were kind enough to reply, and their reply was that: the ‘mixture’ to deplete serotonin was just that, some type of ‘gelatin mixture’ designed for serotonin depletion and these lab animals (in the mice study) were not given any other type of nutrition, thus their serotonin was depleted.
And then, what about people who fast for a period of time — does their serotonin get depleted? If so, why then do they claim to become so much more mentally sharp, with so much more clarity in their thinking? It’s all very confusing but by just taking in collagen daily, if you are only living on collagen, with no added tryptophan anywhere else in your diet, then it might seem logical, wouldn’t you think? I have used the collagen, but not daily, and I will do that trial to see if it makes any difference. I’m just thinking if our diet is rich in grass-fed red meats, fish, eggs, and all the required amino acids, would consuming regular collagen deplete serotonin?
Cindy
Thanks for contributing to the discussion and posing these questions. This is very valid: how much protein is being consumed – and how much tryptophan too. I’m going to have to give the fasting question some thought.
As you can see from the blog there are many possible contributing factors like prior history of depression/anxiety and OCD, drug use, smoking and a family history of these, and prior/current use of SSRIs and genetic polymorphisms too.
I’m glad you heard back from Great Lakes about this. I’m planning to reach out to them and other collagen/gelatin companies to get their insights, recommendations to avoid serotonin depletion (it sounds like Great Lakes don’t consider it an issue) and what feedback they have had from clients.
I’ve been waiting until I have a clearer picture and more feedback from folks. I also have some additional info to share on the actual tryptophan depletion process and will be updating the blog with that. This will address what Great Lakes is saying about the mice research.
And all I’m writing about here is serotonin – other possible factors for some people are glutamates, histamine, oxalates and arginine.
I thought it was just me…..I began taking powdered hydrolyzed beef colllagen made by Great Lakes in hopes that it might encourage hair growth and help with aching joints. After calling the company with a question about proper dosage for men and women, vegetarians, etc., I was advised to start out by taking a teaspoon, rather than a tablespoon in the morning and at night because I am a slim woman who does not eat meat. I think the advice was meant to allow my body to adjust to it before upping the dose. I took it for three months and I have to say I became so anxious and depressed…..It was hard to get out of bed and my outlook on life was gloomy. The only change in my diet or supplement routine was the collagen. So I stopped taking it and within two days I felt like my old self again….a little anxiety remained but I have always suffered from that….but the depression completely disappeared. I have no desire to take it again..It did make my nails nice and strong….and I may have noticed a little less falling hair, and I did not have any less body ache, in fact I think I had more!?!…But any benefits do not outweigh the awful emotional changes I experienced. Perhaps there is a subconscious feeling of guilt, knowing that cows are sacrificed to make this product….and being vegetarian, that certainly bothered me!?! I took Premarin for many years after having a total hysterectomy and always wondered if the guilt of knowing that horses provided the estrogen for the pills, in some sort of unconscious mind-body relationship, may have affected my immune system enough that I succumbed to breast cancer eventually? I think this is a possibilty but unlikely after reading online about so many people trying Collagen supplements having negative effects on their mood and emotional well being. Your article is very interesting. Thank you for posting it online.
Diane
Thanks for sharing your experiences using collagen and then stopping. I’m glad you’ve made the connection. Depending on what your sources of protein are I would think it could have something to do with lower tryptophan in your diet? Now I’m curious to see if there are studies on tryptophan depletion in vegetarians and vegans.
I’d be curious to know how you score on the low serotonin questionnaire and if you have a history of depression or family history of depression? If you’re comfortable with sharing if you’re using a SSRI (or have in the recent past), this may help us piece the puzzle together.
And don’t forget, the solution may be to add tryptophan (after doing a trial to figure out the ideal amount)
Hi Trudy~ Yes, there is a family history of anxiety and depression on my father’s side…he had both and was on meds for those. My mother was neurotic and in her later years had a bit of depression after my father passed. They were both recovered (40 plus years) alcoholics and smokers. My sister’s daughter is bi-polar….there are no real emotional issues on my sister’s husband’s side of her family so we suspect that the predisposition for one of her children to have bipolar or depression comes from our side of the family. When I went through that 3 month period of taking collagen and feeling weird I also started smoking again after not smoking for many years….and found it difficult to think about stopping during that time. I have always had a bit of OCD and ADD but never found that it bothered me too much but during those 3 months I became annoyed with myself that I was being so obsessive and compulsice about little things….more-so than usual….but all the while not making any association with taking collagen…esp. because I was taking such a small dose. It was only after I quit taking it…in just a couple of days….that I felt normal again.
This is all very interesting to me….if I am not mistaken, isn’t tryptophan the thing in turkey that causes people to feel sleepy after eating it? As I said, I am vegetarian…I eat dairy; eggs, milk and cheese and eat nuts and seeds, sometimes beans……for protein. But no meat. I wonder how many of these people reporting side effects like mine are also vegetarian?
I find that if taken at bedtime it helps me sleep better. It seems to reduce anxiety in me. I realize everyone’s body chemistry is different and we all react differently.
Kathy
Thanks for sharing and yes many people find it calming and report it helps with sleep, likely due to the glycine.
Hi
This is a message for you if you commented on the original post and are waiting for my update. A whole new section was added – look for this near the bottom of the article
“UPDATE: Dec 22, 2017. This section adds additional evidence or possibly some theories for why some people are adversely impacted when consuming collagen, while others are not impacted mood-wise – all related to the lowering of serotonin levels. These are called ATD or acute tryptophan depletion studies.”
I’ve added links to research about many possible contributing factors: like prior history of depression/anxiety and OCD, drug use, smoking and a family history of these, and prior/current use of SSRIs and genetic polymorphisms too.
HydroBeef is a beef protein powder that I use. Different companies market it under their own label. I use designs for health brand. I called the company and talked to them about whether or not it contains tryptophan. It does and that was good news for me. It is not a large amount, but it is there. I also discovered that Vital Proteins Bone Broth Collagen powder in both beef and chicken does contain tryptophan. Chicken is a little higher than the beef. I have put that in my smoothies along with the hydrobeef and I feel much better than the hydrolyzed collagen supplements. I was feeling anxiety like you have described and could not understand why. Sure makes sense to me. So that is how I have solved the problem. So far so good.
Susan, could you put a link up for where you purchase the HydroBeef? I had been looking at Vital Proteins Bone Broth Collagen powder and was going to try theirs, a bit pricey, but looks like it may be worth it. Did you buy directly from Vital Proteins?
Cindy
You can purchase the hydrobeef via my online store – use this link for information on setting up an account https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-pyroluria-supplements/ – details at the bottom of the post. Once you have an account and are logged in you can search for “PurePaleo Protein”. Designs for Health has 3 versions of this hydrobeef – vanilla, chocolate and plain. The vanilla and chocolate are sickly sweet for my taste-buds so I’d recommend the plain one. Other protein powders would work too – like whey, pea or rice protein powders (all based on unique sensitivities).
Susan
Thanks for sharing your experiences with collagen products and your solution! I’d love to hear how quickly you noticed the anxiety after starting the collagen and how quickly it went away once you stopped the collagen?
I like the Designs for Health line a lot and yes the hydrobeef is a protein powder that does contain tryptophan. I’m curious which flavor you prefer?
Thanks for the info on Vital Proteins Bone Broth Collagen powder in both beef and chicken – I’ll check that out.
The change in my feelings of anxiety were pretty quick. I noticed a difference in just a few days.
The flavor of the hydrobeef that I use is the unflavored. I always try to avoid the added flavors and sweeteners, even when they are natural. I never know how they will affect me.
I make my smoothies with banana, pumpkin, blueberries and organic alcohol free vanilla. I like to get the sweet and the flavor from real organic foods.
The flavor of the Vital Proteins Bone Broth Collagen that I use is the chicken. I chose that one because it is higher in tryptophan than the beef.
Someone was asking where I get the Vital Proteins. I got them from my local health food store. When I want to buy something online I do a search for it and see where I can find the best price.
I was happy to see that you sell the hydrobeef on your website. I really love to use it. It feels very nourishing and filling to me as opposed to the uneasy feelings I got from the collagen.
I am so glad that you are addressing this issue. It sure hit home for me when I saw your facebook post on it. I haven’t seen it addressed in any of the places that I follow. I’m always looking for answerers for the problems that I deal with and nice to have one more solved!
Thanks, Trudy. I have opened an account. Very much appreciated. I will check out the hydro beef.
Hello,
I think I’m just like you and I recently started taking 5-TPH to help with the anxiety associated with taking collagen. I’m just wondering, how many mg of 5-THP do you take per collagen intake?
I wonder if I’m using too little. I’m currently taking 100mg 5-TPH per 1 teaspoon of collagen.
Let me know your thoughts ..a nd thanks so much 🙂
Penelope
You’re referring to 5-HTP 🙂 and there is no set amount to take with collagen as it depends on each person’s own unique needs (based on their own biochemistry, dietary factors, absorption, gut health + history of anxiety/depression and medication use etc) and how they feel before and after consuming collagen.
I’m looking for a 100% grass fed grass finished powder form of hydrolyzed collagen.
Anyone have any advice? It’s surprisingly hard to find. Great Lakes does not say grass finished (they don’t even say grass fed, I’ve looked all over their website, I don’t know how they’re backing up these claims I see on bloggers websites)
Vital proteins is way more expensive and yet it still does not explicitly say that it is grass finished.
The only lead I have is an Australian brand, Nes proteins I believe it’s called? Their websites says grass finished, but its insanely expensive and I’m not even sure they ship to the US.
Any ideas???
(To clarify, many many brands say grass fed 100% protein, or grass fed pasture raised, but this essentially means nothing. They could be eating a few blades of grass and a lot of grain and soy.)
on their FAQ page they say “pasture raised” and “grass fed”
http://greatlakesgelatin.com/storefront/product-info/faqs.html
Try emailing them and asking. I emailed them with another question and they were very quick to reply
Just to let you know that this one (which I tried)
https://gelatinhealth.com.au
says it is grain finished, and also it is a lot more crystaline than the great lakes one with more of an acid taste. I really preferred the taste and texture of the great lakes one
And just a general heads up on the great lakes gelatin.
On their nuttirion panel the percentages of each of the amino acids adds up to more than 100% (125.5%). I emailed and asked about it and this is what they said:
“The amino acid percentages on the canister do add up over 100% because each amino acid is listed as the maximum amount of each that could possibly be in a serving. We use the highest value of each amino acid in the event that a doctor prescribed to a patient a certain milligram amount that should be taken. If we reported the lowest amount that individual may get more than prescribed by their doctor. Previously we listed the average amount but feel using the maximum available is a better way to list the percentages.”
Which I find to be totally stupid – they should have just listed ranges for each amino acid.
I am so happy to have discovered your website. Praise God, I am a survivor of stage 3B breast cancer. I was diagnosed in 2011 but am totally well and thank God for His mercy. However, I am still taking Tamoxifen per my Dr’s suggestion and my husband’s desire. I began taking grass-fed bovine collagen a few days ago and have not any any side effects except for sleeping well. I started doing a bit more research on it and found out the glycine as well as another amino acid in the ingredients has estrogenic properties in that they strengthen the uptake receptors. Do you have any thoughts on this? My cancer was a mixed bag that included ER+, PR+ tumors.
Thanks!
Carol Ann
I’m glad to hear you’re doing well on the collagen. Cancer is not my area of expertise so I’m afraid I don’t have an answer for you. I would suggest contacting the company itself and checking with your doctor/oncologist. I’d love to hear what you find.
I guess I don’t understand the basis upon which you claim that collagen depletes the brain of tryptophan. Collagen doesn’t CONTAIN much tryptophan, and so feeding rats a diet consisting ENTIRELY of collagen will, eventually, result in tryptophan depletion. This is what happened in the studies you cite. But it doesn’t mean that collagen has some magical power to suck tryptophan out of the body. Unless someone is using collagen as their primary or exclusive protein source, I don’t see how it can have any significant effect on tryptophan levels.
Richard
Collagen doesn’t contain any tryptophan and because of this susceptible individuals may become depleted. I’m simply reporting the evidence. As you can see from the feedback as well, many individuals have observed the effects.
I’d love to hear if you consumed collagen and what you’ve noticed.
I’m not saying that eating gelatin can’t cause the kinds of side effects reported by your readers. I’m saying that the absence of typtophan can’t be the cause. If that were the case, eating any kind of food that contains negligible amounts of tryptophan (say, an eggplant or cabbage) would have the same effects. Gelatin can lower tryptophan levels ONLY if you make it your primary protein source and don’t also eat other protein sources that contain tryptophan. That’s what they did in the rat studies.
The side effects of gelatin reported by your readers are almost certainly caused, not by something gelatin DOESN’T contain (tryptophan) but by something it DOES contain a great deal of: glycine. Gelatin is high in glycine, and glycine is an inhibitory neurotransmitter. In some people it helps with sleep, etc, but people’s individual brain chemistry may react badly to it, as with just about any drug or supplement that affects the brain.
I am taking it on occasion to help me sleep, and it does seem to help with that and also possibly decreases anxiety.
I have always thought the symptoms experienced by some who take collagen, sounded like those of magnesium deficiency brought on by high calcium levels. See excerpt from article below. BTW, I have been taking marine collagen for a couple months now with no unpleasant side effects. I do not take supplemental calcium, however.
HIGH CALCIUM LEVELS
According to MedlinePlus, a website supported by the National Institutes of Health, high calcium levels or hypercalcemia may occur as possible side effects of collagen supplements. Collagen tablets that come from marine sources, such as shark cartilage and shell fish, contain high amounts of calcium, which can significantly raise the calcium levels of the patient using the supplement. Normal values for calcium levels range from 8.5 to 10.2 mg/dl–a reading higher than 10.2mg/dl is considered hypercalcemia. Too much calcium in the body causes constipation, bone pain, fatigue, nausea, vomiting and abnormal heart rhythms. Taking calcium supplements together with this type of collagen tablet should be done with caution.
https://www.livestrong.com/article/325664-side-effects-of-taking-collagen-supplements/
I get severe depression and anxiety when I take collagen! I am using the Vital
Proteins and let me tell ya, I can’t even take a teaspoon without having issues! So frustrating.
Thank you so much for the information! I have Graves disease and have trying to figure out why my Palpations haven’t subsided. I’m gluten free, no soy, dairy, sweets…watch what I eat due to stomach issues. I have noticed palpitations increase after drinking collegen hydrolysate (great lakes gelatin) and anxiety. Thought I’d research topic on web and found this article. What can I take.. protein? I don’t eat red meat and very little chicken and fish. Thank you, Cecilia
Hi Cecelia,
If your symptoms get worse immediately after drinking gelatin, this is still further proof that a tryptophan deficiency is NOT the problem. (If it were, you would have these symptoms all the time). So I’m afraid that increasing your protein consumption won’t help. The only thing that will help is to stop consuming collagen. Collagen is good for most people but some react badly to it and you are one of those people, unfortunately.
Cecilia
As I’ve mentioned in the blog post the anxiety some people experience after consuming collagen/gelatin can be due to it’s effects on lowering serotonin. The easiest way to establish if this is the reason why is for the person to add tryptophan. I always have clients do the trial-response method to figure out the ideal amount for their unique needs.
I have found that adequate consumption of quality animal protein in the form of grass-fed red meat, organic chicken/eggs and wild fish can often help. For my vegetarian/vegan clients who aren’t open to these changes, adding a free form amino acid that does contain tryptophan can often help.
If none of that helps, the anxiety could be for a number of other reasons – like affecting glutamate levels, or a histamine or oxalate effect.
Came upon this post when I was searching for a connection between some symptoms and collagen intake. I had just reached the full dose of collagen when I found that I couldnt sleep at all and my heart was pounding. I stopped the collagen and I was able to sleep normally again a couple nights later but weeks later I still have the heart palpitations. I just started tryptophan tonight, 500mgs. I may increase if I don’t have a bad reaction to it. I am a 31 year old woman that is prone to low serotonin symptoms and just got off of Zoloft a few months ago, after being on it for 6 months. I felt fine without it (taking many supplements and probiotics) until the collagen, and since that haven’t quite recovered. Heart palps, low mood, obsessive thoughts. And I use plenty of magnesium which should help. Just thought I’d add myself,to the list of people that had a bad reaction to the collagen. I would like to take collagen…maybe the tryptophan will help!
Juliana
Thanks for adding your experience and some of the background about low serotonin and meds.
I am curious what product you used and what you mean by “I had just reached the full dose of collagen” – because having heart palpitations weeks later does sound quite excessive and is concerning. I would recommend a medical checkup for a client who experienced this. Keep in mind heart palpitations can also occur from other reactions like hidden gluten exposure or an autoimmune thyroid storm.
Assuming it is related to the collagen-serotonin effect do keep in mind some people do better on 5-HTP and if this or tryptophan doesn’t help I’d then consider an oxalate or glutamate or histamine reaction.
I just found this thread after searching collagen/shortness of breath and was amazed after reading it. I had made some changes for a healthier gut and followed ray peat advice… only to wind up in the ER and have bad breathing/heart racing/adrenaline symptoms to the point that I couldn’t sleep without waking up feeling like I was having a heart attack. After about 2 months of this I finally may have found the issue! I thought I was healing my body but it turns out, for me it was getting worse. I’m going to stop the collagen and bone broth and see if things improve.
So grateful to read this info and see that not only am I not alone, but that things affect everyone differently!
Beste Jen,
Hoe lang heeft jouw reactie geduurd. Ben nu 3 weken verder en nog enorme angstaanvallen, paniek en benauwd
Gr Jolanda
Dear Jen,
How long dit your symptoms last? I am suffering van panic, anxiety, sleepingdisorder en short of breath. I took bone broth for 2 months about 3 times a week and suddenly after taking it, one hour later the problems begon…
How do I know what it is: serontine, GABA , glutemaat or histamine?
Hope you can help me
Ok thank you Trudy! I will consider these things. God bless!
I have indeed noticed a definite depression that lasts throughout the day if I take a tablespoon of gelatin in the mornings or the night before. I have been surprised at how strong the depression is. For me it’s not the coffee as It doesn’t happen on all the other days that I have just breakfast and a coffee. It’s definitely the gelatin as I have stopped and started a few times to make sure that’s It. I am aware that, under certain conditions, I am susceptible to a low serotonin form of depression. On the other hand, some types of depression, and also paranoid schizophrenia, can be caused by elevated serotonin, hence the use of medications that antagonise some of the serotonin receptors, but for many, their depression is due to low levels (often dangerously low) and for these people it’s imperative that this information be shared. I had wondered if the glycine in gelatin is the culprit as glycine also causes depression in me. Thanks for a great article and excellent references.
Michelle
Thanks for sharing and being methodical about stopping and starting a few times in order to be sure.
The best way to be certain the effects are due to serotonin depletion is to use tryptophan or 5-HTP when using gelatin and observe mood.
Does the gelatin depression and the glycine depression feel the same? This is a strange one because there is a serotonin-glycine connection – glycine can boost serotonin.
Hi Trudy,
We distribute Collagen and gelatin products throughout Australia. I have found your article to be very interesting. We are about to launch a few new flavoured Collagen products on the market and would like to get your thoughts on the amount of tryptophan that would be required to prevent the depletion of serotonin that Collagen may cause? It may be something we add to help prevent this issue.
As the owner of The Aussie Gelatin Company, I am amazed of all the positive health benefits of this product and all the people that it can help. Would seriously consider adding tryptophan to our new lines if it would make a difference.
Bruno
Thanks so much for your interest in this aspect of collagen/gelatin and tryptophan depletion. I’m with you on the positive health benefits of collagen and gelatin and if we can find a way for them to work for those who may be more susceptible to tryptophan depletion I’m all for helping.
I don’t have a simple answer on how much tryptophan would need to be added – simply because of each person’s own unique biochemistry, what they currently eat, any digestion issues they may have, prior mood issues, current medication use (especially possible contraindications with SSRIs and serotonin syndrome) etc.
And clearly it’s not an issue for some people.
There is only one company that I know of that adds tryptophan to their collagen and I’m waiting to hear back from them. I like the concept but at this stage I’m not even sure how good an idea this is because of what I mention above. Tryptophan quality is a big factor too.
I do have some thoughts based on my experience with tryptophan and anxiety/depression but I also feel doing some additional trials/tests and surveys with folks who are using collagen/gelatin would be really helpful for figuring this out. We’ve gotten a great deal of feedback on this blog already so it’s a good start. Also, taking a deeper dive into the research would provide some further insights – I’ve started to do this but it’s a time-consuming process. I would also love to get some case studies published in order to create more awareness and hopefully further research.
Also keep in mind that for some people it may be a glutamate and/or oxalate and/or histamine effect together with the serotonin-depleting effect (or just one of these factors). But I feel in most instances there is a work-around for all of the above possible issues so collagen/gelatin can be consumed without adverse effects. The consumers just need to be made aware and educated on what to look out for (in terms of symptoms) and what to do to mitigate the effects.
I’m sure the quality of the collagen/gelatin plays a role too. I love that your products are both grass-fed and grass-finished.
I’ll reach out via email to discuss further
A couple of weeks ago, I started using collagen and within about a week I started to feel unusually depressed, blue and anxious. I just could not understand why I was worrying about things that I had not thought about in many months. That is what prompted me to search the web to see if anyone else had noticed the same results after taking collagen and that’s how I found your site. Well, I guess I have my answer regarding what is causing my depression. Wow…it had me questioning my faith and everything (not about God, but about my maturity as a Christian)…I have just been an absolute mess. Thank you so much for your article and all the posts. I know that I need to stop the collagen immediately.
Sandra
Thanks for sharing your collagen experience here – glad you found this article. Please do let us know how it goes when you stop taking collagen.
And don’t forget this – if you are seeing benefits with the collagen there is no reason why you should have to stop it altogether. I’m recommending folks stop it to see if the depression/anxiety/insomnia/agitation symptoms go away, adding it back to see if the symptoms come back, stopping it again and then figuring out the cause. If the addition of tryptophan mitigates symptoms when using collagen then we know it’s related to low serotonin. If using tryptophan doesn’t make a difference then we have to determine if the collagen impacts are due to glutamates, histamine or oxalates and address this aspect.
Transferring my comments from another thread:
I had started adding collagen to my smoothies several months ago because I heard it could help with joint pain. It did help – my hip pain was gone, but I began to feel really “revved up.” I couldn’t keep still and my mind was way too active. I stopped the collagen and within a week, I felt calm and normal again. But then the hip pain came back, so I started adding just a little collagen to my smoothies a few times per week. I think I’ve found a nice medium where I still feel calm and centered but my hip pain is mostly eased. Thanks for the fantastic information, Trudy!
Sandi
Thanks for commenting here too! Please remind me how much you were using initially and how much you are using now? Is it a grass-fed/grass-finished product (I’m trying to figure out if this could be making a difference)?
You seem to have found a good balance but don’t forget this if you find you need more to see benefits in the future. I’m recommending folks stop it to see if the depression/anxiety/insomnia/agitation symptoms go away, adding it back to see if the symptoms come back, stopping it again and then figuring out the cause. (which you’ve already done)
If the addition of tryptophan mitigates symptoms when using a higher dose of collagen then we know it’s related to low serotonin. If using tryptophan doesn’t make a difference then we have to determine if the collagen impacts are due to glutamates, histamine or oxalates and address this aspect.
Hi Trudy!
Originally I was using 3T/day, then after cutting it out completely, I restarted at 1 T/day. At first it was enough to hold off my joint pain, but that has returned, so I think i need to look at hormones (I have some other symptoms as well). And no! My collagen is NOT grass-fed! I’m SUCH a stickler for making sure my raw dairy products and my meats are all grass-fed/finished, but i didn’t even think of it when i ordered the collagen. I wouldn’t be surprised if that was the issue!
sandi
Holy cow,
Summary
1 month – taking 1 tablespoon of collagen powder
Next month – upped dose to 2 tablespoons
Stopped collagen – took about 6 days to get back to my ‘normal’ (able to leave house, do stuff, go to work etc)
I’ve only just come from from a terrible depression which I can only attribute to 2 months on collagen
– the only change in my diet was adding collagen powder (Great Lakes). My hair has never been better but my mood decreased so badly I had thoughts of suicide etc. I then researched collagen more in depth and found studies showing it depletes tryptophan which in susceptible people (yep, me) can cause recurrence of depression.
So glad I found your site – I’ve never had such great hair – but not being able to leave the house wasn’t good.
I aggree as i felt during 2 months using collagen 10 gr at firsth bovine and fish ( bovine gave allergy to my feet skin?)
Jane
Thanks for sharing your collagen experience here – these are really severe effects! I’m glad you made the connection. I’d love to hear if the addition of tryptophan while taking collagen allows to you continue to take it to experience the wonderful hair benefits?
Wow I was searching benefits for collagen and this came up. I took collagen powder for the first time about 5 days ago and couldn’t sleep due to anxiety. I would constantly wake up with my heart racing. I got so weak from not being able to sleep I was scared for myself. I haven’t took it since but I didn’t think it was a connection since I’ve dealt with anxiety before. I was about to start taking it again, but now I know I can’t bummer. I really wanted to see how great my skin could get. Welp you live and learn. Thanks for this blog, I wouldn’t have known or guessed it.
Hi Monica,
I have no doubt what you are saying is correct. I have my own brand of collagen and would like to try and see if there is a way to solve this issue.
Can I ask, do you have a normal diet and eat meat, Milk,eggs, chocolate ect. That is, foods which naturally contain tryptophan?
How were you taking the collagen??
Most people consume a reasonable amount of trypophan in their regular protein consumption, so I am struggling to see that taking around 12g of collagen per day would cause a depletion of tryptophan. I am thinking there is something else with the supplement that leads to the drop in seratonin??
I do consume alot of milk and dairy products in general. I took the collagen with orange juice, since I heard the vitamin c helps it absorbs better. I’m thinking it may be something else to it also. I’m gonna stay away from it for now.
Dear Bruno,
You are absolutely correct. Collagen does not deplete tryptophan, it simply does not supply it, and it should not cause tryptophan problems in anyone who consumes other protein sources. The problems caused in some sensitive individuals by collagen clearly lie elsewhere—possibly in collagen’s abundance of glycine, which is an inhibitory neurotransmitter and may affect serotonin levels in complex ways ( though virtually the only research paper on the topic suggests that it actually increases extracellular serotonin). But really, no one seems to know why collagen affects some people badly. Nothing supports the low tryptophan theory.
i got skin allergy (bovine collagen) and little itchy skin?!
I tried the grass-fed collagen powder and got anxiety & depression.
It’s not the lack of tryptophan that is causing that for me since I take l-tryptophan every night, and in the past have had bad reactions to SSRIs and other supplements that increase serotonin.
What are likely the problem for me is glycine – I’ve tried glycine which gave me anxiety and trouble sleeping. Also think I don’t react well to the glutamates. Seems the amino acids are imbalanced in the collagen so it may work great for some if you need those, but not for others like me.
Lisa
Thanks for sharing about your collagen reaction and the glycine connection.
Thank you so much for all that, I feel so relieved to have found your website and your article and also all the comments of readers. I’m also sorry for my struggling english, I’m French.
I have horrible problems to sleep since years, i took drugs to sleep for years but It was just a shitty life, with a lots of side effects that made me exhausted whatever my sleep was. I had to deal with a quick addiction so I had to change the molecule all the time. Now I stopped 5 years ago, but I sleep very badly and seems sensitive to to much things. I suffer difficulties to fall asleep if I watch a screen, eat or drink some food after 1 pm like tea, chocolate, eggplants, red meat, wine, cider etc…
i Wake up also at nearly every cycle, and suffer of not enough sleep because often I can’t fall asleep again if there is dawn. Even with a mask.
I try to eat very clean, a kind of paleo, that made me feel less worse I could say, even if I have craving in afternoon and night, with good organic grass feed meats and eggs at lunch, a lots of vegetables and brone broth home made. I have leaky gut syndrome so i stopped gluten and nearly all foodmap. I eat very little fruits and carbs because they make me anyway hypoglycemic and fat but ends often with gluten free oatmeal or chia pudding or an awful bag of M&m’s because evening’s craving 🙁
I have been prescribed all kind of pro serotonin antidepressants and they really hurted me on several levels, I took on weight, felt dumb, lost my libido and even became anorgasmic, and yet did not slept better. So I stopped and on a clever doctor advise, I found that taking 1/2 Deprenyl and vitamine D and Ltyrosine really greatly helped my mood and physical form. I seems more needing dopamine stimulation.
But still struggling with sleep with all the debilitating consequences on my Brain and body.
I tried to add marine collagene since a week as the lack of sleep makes me feel hurt in joints, and because I read It would heIp with sleep I added ltryptophane last night 500mg at midnight and 500 at 1am as I was feeling bad. But I had the worst night ever, with heart racing like Crazy. And it’s how searching for ltryptophane and insomnia, I found your site. I’s the first time I read a more subtile approach about supplements.
Don’t know what to do. If you have a track that I can explore, I would be really happy. Thanks
Emma
Emma
Too much of any of the amino acids can cause an adverse effect. A typical starting dose of tryptophan is 500mg but that can be too much for some sensitive people. For my pixie dust clients (the sensitive ones) we start really low and increase slowly. And I always do a trial late afternoon so we can figure out the ideal starting amount. More on the trial here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/how-to-do-an-amino-acid-trial-for-anxiety/
Hi, great foorum thanks!
I have same “low” feeling when using collagen, tired, sleepy aso. I took tryptphan 300 mg if it lifts mood?
All the best to All!
t. 62 years old man from Finland 🙂
Seppo
Thanks for sharing that collagen makes you feel low. May I ask how much, which product and how often? Are you saying 300mg tryptophan helped?
Wow…I just came across the link between collagen and low serotonin in a different comment thread, after about 4.5 years of taking a collagen supplement. I am 47 now, and started having sleep issues around age 40. I have taken an OTC sleep aid since then. (Doxylamine Succinate) A little more than 4 years ago, I had to go on medication for clinical depression for about 18 months. Although my life had been very stressful for about 9 years before that — coinciding with my husband going into business for himself — the inability to focus and overall “flatness” got to the point where I needed medication in early 2014. Once I read about the collagen/serotonin link, I went back to determine when I started taking collagen. As far as I could tell, it was a few months prior to going on depression meds. Hmmm. I have been off medication for about 2.5 years, but there have been times that I thought I might need it again. I ordered an L-tryptophan supplement to see if I notice any difference. If that doesn’t work, I guess I will try giving up the collagen for a while. Thanks for this information.
Deborah
Thanks for sharing and for documenting all this. May I ask how much collagen and which product and how often? What benefits did you see with the collagen? We’d love to hear an update on how it goes with tryptophan and/or with no collagen?
Did you see notice any changes after taking collagen and L-tryptophan?
Hi, I wonder if someone could explain whether certain Types (1, 2, or 3) play an enhanced role in lowering serotonin. I am actually trying to reduce serotonin (MAO-A mutation), and I’m presently taking a marine Type 2 collagen.
Thanks.
Al
This is all pretty new to me so I don’t have an answer for you. How is the marine type 2 collagen working for you? I’m curious what symptoms you have and how you know you have high serotonin?
I started take a collagen supplement that is made by Youtheory with type I, II, and III in it. From the first day taking it, I have felt just so tired. Sleeping so very heavy with very vivid dreams. Just after a week, you could see the exhaustion on my face and under my eyes. So I stopped taking it and within 2 days I was sleeping fine again and feeling less heavy from sleeping. I would really like to take collagen for all its great benefits, but I just can’t figure out why I get this strange reaction. Anyone got any thoughts on this? I know it has Tryptophan in it but why is it affecting me so heavily?
Thanks for a great article!
Becky
Thanks for sharing your experiences with collagen. Anxiety, depression and insomnia seem to be more common issues so your reports of heavy sleeping and fatigue are unusual and I don’t know what the mechanism could be. By the way collagen doesn’t contain any tryptophan.
I know of 2 collagen powders that contain tryptophan.
Stacie
Yes there are a few bit not everyone needs added tryptophan so it’s best to use as needed
Are you taking any meds or any supplements other than this whatsoever? They could be reacting to it.
Wow. I found this article after a week of tough nights and increased insomnia. And the first night of increased insomnia was the first night I took Great Lakes Collagen Hydrolysate. I’ve been taking it morning and night to help heal my gut. A heaping tablespoon. I will stop and see if my anxiety decreases. Thanks!
Heather
Thanks for sharing – please keep us posted.
Beef collagen or store bought beef broth kills me. I tried some years ago and never made the connection. Then I tried the Dr. Axe beef broth collagen and it made me sick. This was about 2 years ago I paid about $40 for that huge tub. I still didnt make the correlation. Then I bought the small individual packs of Vital proteins last summer and I got the same reaction. At this point I’m starting to think something is wrong but I thought it was the brand so I saw some Sports Research brand in TJ Maxx about 3 months ago and purchased it. It was cheap. I got it home and tried it and BAM, just like that.
It dropped my blood sugar, I got headaches, sore throat and this lasts for about 2 days. It made me sicker than heck. I honestly never made a definite connection until I was reading reviews on Amazon that said a lot of people are allergic to beef collagen because it’s made from the hides. But I get this even from beef broth from stores. I read some of them have a high concentration of glutamate so I honestly thought that was the issue.
I use marine collagen now and I absolutely have no issues. As a matter of fact it has made a huge impact on my health. I thought my gut was healed, since I’ve been working on it for several years but apparently not. I absolutely love it!! Now I’m going to get L tryptophan to go with it and help my sleep.
Shea
Thanks for sharing your experiences with collagen. Glad to hear the marine collagen is so helpful! Keep us posted on tryptophan use. Also, was sleep an issue before using the marine collagen or is this since using marine collagen?
An allergic reaction to beef collagen/bovine collagen and is clearly a factor to consider for some individuals. I found this study on 2 cases of an IgE reaction: Allergic reactions to oral, surgical and topical bovine collagen. Anaphylactic risk for surgeons. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8913129. I’m curious if you had IgG or IgE testing done?
I have not found any evidence for the beef hide issue you mention and would love you to share a link please.
Yes I’ve had severe insomnia for about 15 years now because my cortisol is high at night and it won’t budge. I’ve tried everything from essentials oils,prescriptions meds,seriphos, every adaptogen, etc. Its just stuck and after reading about it more it seems a lot of people have the same issue with cortisol not relenting.
I think I saw the beef hide thing mentioned in passing and I cant remember where I saw it.
A lot of my allergies to food have surfaced in the last 5 years. But of course it’s a vicious cycle when you get no sleep your body doesn’t have a chance to heal which creates more havoc. So I’d say lack of sleep is what’s wrong mostly because I’ve never had any food allergies. On the other hand I could’ve always had some allergies and never knew. My issues with cellulose are recent too. I was taking all these vitamins thinking I’m getting somewhere but they made me so sick. I’ve done back and forth to the vitamin shoppe returning stuff thinking it wasnt working but it was the veggie capsule. Which led to the realization about my prescription meds not working either. Most of the meds u get from any pharmacy are coated with some type of cellulose.
My hypertension meds were the worst but now it all makes sense. And I know as long as my insomnia persistsand cortisol is high my blood pressure will be also.
I hope the tryptophan is the missing link. I have found deep breathing helps,and mag spray.
Shea, what brand of marine collagen do you use? Will you post a link or name the brand? Thanks much!
Shea, what is the brand of marine collagen that you have found works well, or could you post a link? Thanks much.
Premium Anti-Aging Marine Collagen Powder 17.6 Oz | Wild-Caught Hydrolyzed Fish Collagen Peptides | Type 1 & 3 Collagen Protein Supplement | Amino Acids for Skin, Hair, Nails | Paleo Friendly, Non-GMO https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XSZ7S1M?ref=yo_pop_ma_swf
I absolutely love this brand. Of course I have nothing else to compare it with. It has gone up a few bucks but it is a huge tub. I have found the trick to dissolving it is to mix it with hot water and stir vigorously. I microwave a little water and add the scoop. I haven’t tasted it in plain water,I usuallyadd it to pomegranate juice along with concentrace minerals and liquid probiotic.
Thank you, Shea! I will try this.
Shea, one more thing… when you bought the collagen from Amazon, did you note the expiration date? Thanks so much!
The expiration date is 2/21. I wish I could send u a pic or attachment but I don’t see that option here. Good luck.
Great, thanks, Shea!
Ur welcome.
I came across this article after experiencing increased anxiety. I have had a history of anxiety over the years and have become quite self aware. I have Klonopin on hand for when it gets out of hand, but haven’t taken them very much in the past few years. My issues with anxiety started after giving birth to my first child 38 years ago. Now I am wondering if my serotonin level were low. I started taking Collagen in pill form (Costco brand) and felt fine for the first 4 days. No headaches but maybe more gassy on occasion. I did notice less back pain. I slept well but noticed the past two nights, I had a harder time falling asleep. Last night I had to remind myself that I did not have any coffee and questioned whether it was the one glass of wine I had that was causing my heart racing feeling. I awoke this morning still feeling anxious and did this google search. I did take the pills earlier than usual yesterday so I might try taking them in the evening to see if this continues. After that I might take less and see the effects of that. It would be a shame to stop completely because I do have less back pain. It hasn’t helped my arthritis in my hands for which I still have some pain but it’s been only 5 days. (I take turmeric and it has been a miracle for me for the arthritis pain). Thank you for this article.
I looked for this article because I took one dose of collagen yesterday and fell into a deep depression over night. It appeared to be quite strange because I have never had an episode like this in the past.
I happened upon Vital Protiens Hydrolized Collagen Peptides while researching the KETO diet and also, more importantly, causes for my constant diarrhea issues. Low and behold, almost immediately upon taking 2 scoops a day I noticed my diahrrea problem pretty much went away. No doctor, 4 in all, could tell me what caused this diarrhea in the first place. Meds, perhaps? After years of taking them? I began mixing the collagen with Peanut Butter Protien Powder, sweetners, ghee, Almond milk which has LOTS of calcium in it, vanilla. DELICIOUS and kept me full all day! No diarrhea, but if I sat down to watch tv I would fall sound asleep for a good 2 hours. This is after a good nights sleep as well! I can’t give up the collagen, so I’m trying my drink with coffee instead of almond milk and no peanut butter protein, which I was told might have tryptophan. I still fall asleep. This same sleepiness happened when I took calciumum supplements a few years ago, so I stopped taking them. Sleepiness went away immediately. Is there too much calcium in the collagen? I’m confused about what to do. I can’t go back to unexplained diarrhea, day and night, but I would like to have more waking hours during the day. Please help. I’ll try any and all suggestions. Thank you. Oh, I’m not aggitated or depressed, but I do have heart palpitations regularly which started before the collagen. EKGs say I’m fine! So the doctors say.
Hi,
I’m not a dietitian or a nutritionist but too much calcium for me is no good. I used to get palpitations a lot but then I started taking magnesium 2-3 times per day at 135 mg each capsule (Thorne brand), palpitations are next to gone, and probably would be totally gone if I could get myself off coffee. I can’t tolerate too much calcium. Also, 2 scoops of collagen, for me, was way too much and I also had palpitations with that dose. Actually, I went off the collagen because it also made my body feel heavy and tired, a little was okay, but I decided to trial off it totally. To help with diarrhea, which I used to get, I started drinking 1/2 cup of kefir per day but still need to have a good intake of fiber. That seems to work well for me right now – see how well it does down the road a bit more. I’ve been drinking the kefir daily now for a couple of months and seems to do the trick but I know not everyone can tolerate dairy. That is the only dairy I take in, though, except for an occasional bowl of oatmeal, but I’m considering some other source rather than dairy for that as well.
Thanks Cindy. I will consider everything you said and continue the experimenting. One thing I did today was have my drink at 5:30 a.m. before my husband leaves for work. I figure if it’s going to make me sleep for 2 hours, that would be a good time to do it. I never stay awake then, anyway. I will try the kefir and I already bought magnesium, I forget why and haven’t used it. I will, now. As for your lack of credentials, no doctor or nutritionist has helped me yet, except to offer immodium (use it) and electrodes in my sphincter, (sorry for that) as solutions. I welcome your time and concern. I can’t wait see what works best and will certainly post the results.
I just this morning made the possible correlation between collagen consumption and my worsening insomnia. I’ve been taking beef gelatin collagen and marine collagen every morning for about a month and my sleep has been getting progressively worse, my mood too. I thought it was due to the glycine and glutamic acid, I had no idea it could deplete serotonin. Will stop it and see what happens.
Stacy, you were right the first time. It IS because of the glycine and glutamic acid. Collagen does not deplete serotonin or tryptophan. That claim (unfortunately the basis of this whole webpage) is based on a very basic misunderstanding of the one study on which it is supposedly based.
I agree.
I agree from personal experience.
I didn’t think collagen depleted serotonin either; that is not what I took away from that article, but what is it about glycine and glutamic acid that causes theses type of problems Stacy is talking about? I didn’t like the feeling I had from collagen either, made me feel heavy and tired. But that said, I did make my own bone broth and that hasn’t bothered me so far, but then again, I don’t drink it daily, just here and there.
Stacey
Thanks for sharing – we’d love an update? Keep in mind that if it is due to lowering serotonin, using tryptophan or 5-HTP can counter this
Glycine and glutamate are both neurotransmitters. Glycine is an inhibitory neurotransmitter and glutamate is an excitatory neurotransmitter associated with both agitation and depression. They are also, obviously, common amino acids that don’t affect most people when ingested in the amounts present in food. But some people seem to be sensitive to the high amounts of them present in collagen; I don’t know what the exact mechanisms are. What I do know, beyond a doubt, is that collagen does not deplete tryptophan. It doesn’t contain tryptophan, but that’s harmless unless you eat a diet consisting of nothing but collagen (like the rats in that one study). And since it doesn’t affect tryptophan, it doesn’t affect serotonin either. Or at least, no one on this site (or anywhere else) has even ventured a possible explanation for why that might be.
Whilst glycine is inhibitory it has the ability to become excitatory via glutamate, being a coagonist of NMDA. I took a glycine supplement one night to aid sleep but it became excitatory for me as I do tend to have problems regulating glutamate and GABA. I’m also venturing into histamine intolerance as another possible cause of collagen issues. I haven’t done any research yet into the serotonin depleting effects to have an opinion about that.
This is what happened to me – in the past I took Glycine for sleep, and it had the opposite effect. I shouldn’t have bought the collagen, seeing how it was imbalanced with glycine.
I couldn’t find anything about my glycine reaction at the time, I’ve also thought I have glutamate/GABA issues, so thanks for that info.
(sorry for double-post above)
I started taking collagen to promote hair growth…and noticed a nice improvement. My skin also benefited…however, I started having severe heart racing about two months in. Since I have racing due to Afib, I assumed that was the culprit but now it rarely stops, which is different for me. I decided to stop the collagen and within a couple days the racing started going away. Much better now so unfortunately I won’t be able to use collagen. Disappointing!
I love this article on face book. I am 54 years old I have been taking collagen for about a year now. I am taking it to strength my joints and leaky gut. I have had mild depression for on and off for no reason and I felt it might be due to poor sleep and age related. I have been searching on the internet for help. In the past few months I began taking tryptophan about I gram before bed and it seems to offer some relief. Also for my mild fatigue and mild depression I started adding tyrosine before breakfast and after breakfast and this is a major break in my life as I am having a lot of energy and feeling great during the day. I feel my overall health greatly improved including my sex drive. I feel that I may have suffered low serotonin symptoms and this problem seems to be dealt with successfully by adding tyrosine and tryptophan in my daily routine. I also take other supplements including Terris tribullus for strenth strength, magnesium and zinc before bed, I lately began eating more plant protein and feeling better.
Thanks so much or this article! I was curious about this because I was into drinking bone broth after I noticed how much better it made me feel when I had influenza last year however and how great my skin started to look after drinking it, however I started to notice in the passed few months that when I do drink bone broth at night the following day I am MUCH more anxious and almost depressed all day long! I thought it was in my head so I would quit drinking it for a few days then give it another go and the same thing seems to keep happening! I feel this might explain what is going on.
Thank you!
Totally loved reading all this!
Same here! I recently started taking collagen peptides and started getting more and more depressed over time. Nothing had changed in my diet or routine EXCEPT the collagen.
I took collagen powder for the first time today and by this afternoon I was very depressed . So much so that I googled “ can collagen powder make you depressed “ and I stumbled across this thread and couldn’t believe all the people that felt this way after taking the collagen powder . I wanted to make my hair fuller and make my nails stronger by taking the collagen but now I see I just cannot take it because I don’t want to deal with the side effect . I am relieved to know it’s not just me that have experienced this .
Stephanie
Thanks for sharing here. May I ask which product and how much you used? And how you used it? Are you prone to feeling low?
As I’ve mentioned in other comments, using tryptophan or 5-HTP can prevent these effects in folks that seem to have these adverse effects triggered by low serotonin.
Hi Trudy , yes I believe I am prone to mild depression sometimes but never enough to where I take any meds or anything – but a few hours after taking the protein powder I just felt so down. I didn’t want to do anything and I didn’t feel like talking to anyone . It was weird . I used 2 scoops of Vital proteins powder with my coffee like the directions said to . I know it had to be the collagen powder because nothing was different other than me taking that . I read where people are saying to take it again to be sure but honestly I don’t want to feel like that and I don’t want to take that chance again. It was awful .
Hello Trudy,
I am so happy to have found your blog/research regarding collagen and anxiety. I am fascinated by your research as I started taking collagen in February. I first started taking BioOptimal Collagen Peptides and did not feel well. Had some digestive issues with it. So then I went back to it later and I was fine but had racing thoughts, couldn’t sleep, and heart seemed to be in racing at times. Didn’t connect the two for awhile; however, I loved the benefits of the skin, hair, nails and was hoping it would help with my stiffness – which I don’t see any change in that department. So I changed it to a couple times a week which was tolerable but still not ideal. So now I have tried a different brand of collagen as I thought perhaps it was the brand. So I opted to try New Zealand Collagen Peptides. Same thing! Couldn’t sleep, felt a bit shaky, my body temp changes and my mind racing and heart rate goes up. So I have wanted to find out if anyone else was having these issues and it always seems to me what works for everyone else has the opposite effect on me. Plus I have a real issue with alcohol. I can’t drink but one drink and then if I do, I get horrible anxiety. I can’t figure why this happens. I have been dealing with this for years and have figured out that I have to be careful on eating any spicy or hot foods (that sets it off), get rid of sugar, I drink very little caffeine, and try to eat whole foods. I also found Kale makes me shaky (weird). I so want to continue to take collagen but adding the tryptophan just might do the trick. I need to try this or GABA. I do have a lot of sensitivities, so I usually try to take supplements and medication half of what is recommended. The information you provide is so helpful. So glad I found it.
I have experienced depression and anxiety for most of my life (I’m 43 now.) Was on medications for the better part of 15 years. Miraculously, after giving birth for the first time at age 40, most of my depression and anxiety symptoms completely disappeared. They suddenly reappeared, along with a racing heart, a few months ago. It got so bad as to where I recently had a panic attack on the freeway. (Despite having anxiety in the past, I’ve never been anxious driving and actually going for a drive has always been something that helps me when I’m feeling anxious or down.) I keep trying to think of what I am doing differently to warrant this sudden onset and return of symptoms. I cut out almost all caffeine, but still have a racing heart. I’ve also been having nightmares and trouble sleeping. I started taking 2 scoops of Vital Proteins collagen earlier this year and I am now very curious as to if there is a connection! I am going to stop taking this supplement and hopefully notice a difference. Thank you for the information!
Heather
Please keep us posted how it goes and remember that if the anxiety is related to the drop in serotonin, many folks can continue to use collagen provided they add serotonin support in the way of tryptophan or 5-HTP. The increased anxiety could also be due glutamates, arginine, histamine, because of quality issues and glyphosate levels, an increase in oxalates or something else such as not eating enough animal protein
I had been using 2,000 mg. of L-Tryptophan for almost a year to help with sleep. So when I found myself depressed from taking collagen a few months back it was deeply disappointing. Apparently even my added Tryptophan wasn’t enough to balance the effects.
Deborah
Thanks for sharing here and I’m really pleased you made the connection. I’m also so glad tryptophan is helping your sleep. May I ask if you trialed increasing the tryptophan while using the collagen and noticed any difference?
The author of the article clearly has next to NO MEDICAL knowledge and makes a number of completely false inferences from the studies that she cites. Secondly most of the rest of the comments are a case of a ‘little knowledge is a dangerous thing’ mixed in with ‘the blind leading the blind’. I would suggest you all stop writing anything more on the internet and go and seek the help of a qualified Dr. Not a life coach or similar. This has to be the worst article/thread i have read on the internet in some time.
Richard
As you can read by the multitude of comments this is really happening to folks and causing distress so it’s not something we can dismiss. I’m simply proposing that tryptophan depletion is one possible mechanism for these symptoms, and asking folks to share their experiences. The next step would be a formal study.
I’d appreciate hearing what your experience is that makes you say this. When I have a “professional difference of opinion” when it comes to another practitioner, I voice my concerns, share supporting evidence (either research-based, clinical or even anecdotal) and share my full name and what I do.
I’m always open to constructive feedback and am open to having my mind changed but this comment is not very helpful in providing specifics. Kindly do so and I’d be more than happy to respond.
I know this page is four years old already, but here’s my two cent.
I guess my problem with this ‘low serotonin’ hypothesis, is the fact that some people have VERY negative reactions to SSRIs — suggesting that there are other reasons for depression and anxiety. In fact, these SSRIs can CAUSE extreme anxiety, even suicidal tendencies in people.
I have a feeling that a majority of the reactions are more likely histamine related.
True, that there is no scientifically backed information here proving the cause or effect of collagen and gelatin on serotonin. This article won’t solve any problems for you as is. However, I came across this article while searching a suspicion of my own, having had a reaction to collagen powder. Reading that so many people here had the same reaction as I did, just confirmed for me that it was in fact the collagen powder that was causing extreme adrenal/histamine issues and I dealt with it accordingly. I’ll point out that I have been to several “qualified doctors” who similarly didn’t have any experience or answers regarding this, even after suggesting I take collagen. Our medical system is not the picture of health and answers they’d like you to believe they are and for those that already know this, they turn to the internet for answers they couldn’t find at a licensed practitioner’s office. I’m grateful for articles like this, not for answers necessarily, but to confirm that a large group of people are experiencing the same thing, proving it is a legitimate issue. I can do my own research from here.
Very well said! I agree! I have tried collagen a few different times, organic included of course, but I did not like the heavy feeling it caused for me and heart palpitations. I stopped the collagen and no heart palpitations and no heavy feeling. Nobody will tell me that it was ‘not’ the collagen. Thank goodness for Trudy’s site and bringing this subject into light!
Absolutly ! Same for me. Have been feeling very depressed after 3 days of collagene powder in my smoothie. Yet it seems that home beef broth is not that bad for me. Don’t know why, but I’m happy that I have found clues on this web site
My 82 year old mother and I (46) have been using Vital Proteins collagen peptides for at least two years and have only noticed positive effects (primarily softer, fuller hair, stronger nails and softer skin). She thinks it also helps with her hip arthritis. We have both experienced episodes of depression in the past (runs in the family), but no noticeable effect from collagen. I also take Mercolas collagen daily with no adverse effect.
Trudy I definitely think my body reacts to the collagen with increased anxiety.I was taking it in the am and at bedtime and noticed more anxiety at bedtime so I stopped it then.I still take other supplements like GABA to help with anxiety.I see Tryptophan and 5htp helps others.The Tryptophan gives me muscle leg pain ( even though it does help my insomnia) and 5htp seems to make me more nervous.I saw that you will be discussing this more in “The Anxiety Summit 5: Gut-Brain Axis.” When is that because I want to listen to that.
I have a definite bad reaction to drinking bone broth but if I remove all traces of fat from the top before drinking it I have very little or no bad reactions. My reactions include gut pain, wind, possible anxiety and sleeplessness. I’m wondering if glutamates sick to the fat and it is the glutamates that I am reacting to. I don’t otften have collagen but I think I have a similar but milder bad reaction!! I have a diet rich in animal protein but do have issues with oxalates .
Trudy,
Collagen and gelatin are animal products. I am not vegan (although I have been), and this report is causing me to wonder whether this is a situation where we are ingesting not just the processed tissue of the animal, but their terror as well. Can’t prove it, but it makes sense to me.
HELP !!
I started taking sports research college and peptides about a month ago I noticed 1st in foremost I am a feeling like a pill was stuck in my throat or lamp dryness very soon after that my anxiety in depression were so horrible I could barely function I quit taking it a couple days ago and the throat issue is still bothering me which could be from possibly heart burn from taking this. If therea anyonw out there at all who has similar experiences please tell me !
I’m going to try some new collagen I ran across and I’ll keep you posted on how it turns out for me but I don’t believe the collagen itself is depleting tryptophan but rather there is a reaction to the histamine or glycine, etc., as Trudy suggested somewhere here in this blog, or another part of the collagen that is causing some reaction. There is an awful lot of glycine in collagen. In the study with the rats, they were given a “collagen diet only” which contained ‘no’ tryptophan. If this is all the protein you are getting, collagen type, you will deplete yourself of tryptophan, not the collagen depleting your tryptophan, as I understand it from reading that article on rats. I did not like the way collagen made me feel, as in a heavy body type of feeling and palpitations but I do think it has to do with some other part as an ingredient in the collagen. The two brands I tried were popular brands but this time I am going to try another brand which I won’t mention at this time, until I give it a trial.
I finally tried a bone broth product that doesn’t make me have insomnia and which seems to be reducing my anxiety as a result of healing my gut. It’s by Designs for Health. I have the FUT2 mutation which may necessitate use of this or similar products on a regular basis. I find if I stop taking it, my symptoms return. If I take any foods I’m allergic to, I can undo the good it’s doing. Hope you all find relief.
Thank you for sharing this again Trudy, as I only discovered you and your work a few months back, so had not come across this particular post! I’ve taken collagen almost daily for a few years now, and do also have low serotonin. I felt like I was losing my mind months ago, and now, with adding daily GABA & Tryptophan, and even occasionally a full-spectrum Amino supplement, I am feeling a bit better. Will continue to experiment with other AA’s and see how things go! I have found a lot of great info from your site, and really want to thank you for what I have learned so far, as it has been helpful. 🙂
Karen
Thanks for sharing and glad to hear that “adding daily GABA & Tryptophan, and even occasionally a full-spectrum Amino supplement” allows you to continue to consume collagen
I have used grass fed beef collagen and on day 3 had stomach cramps, nausea and vomiting. Thought maybe food poisoning, but didn’t feel quite the same. I suspected collagen and stopped. I felt better and went back to it again – few weeks later with a similar reaction. Have not had any since and never had that happen again. A number of years ago I was told I needed thyroid medication and I tried it. Made my stomach cramp and similar nausea. I stopped taking the thyroid med and fixed the issues through food.
I’ve always wondered if these things are connected in any way.
I just read this article, I’m wondering if this is causing me more anxiety and mood swings. I’ve been taking collagen in my coffee for over a year now. I never put the two together.
About 6 months ago my anxiety was out of control. I couldn’t talk to anyone without getting anxiety and flushed. My primary care doctor started me very slowly with SSRIs and Wellbutrin.
It was a miracle, first thing I noticed that I never expected was a drop in sugar cravings. Then as he raised the dosage. Currently 20mg Lexapro and 150 extended release Wellbutrin I felt better.
I could talk with people without anxiety and had more energy through out the day. Now I’ve noticed that I’m getting more moody and tired.
I wonder if it could be the collagen? Still feel better than before, but now by mid afternoon I start with the racing heart and tiredness:(
Kathy
The best way to know is to stop the collagen and see how you feel
Hi Trudy,
I hope I can contribute an idea as to why some folks may have terrible reactions to collagen and/or gelatin.
I don’t know if you’ve heard of Katie Reid–a biochemist PhD mom who was able to find the key to her daughter’s autism and help her to heal. This involved the identification of free glutamate in all sorts of foods–especially high-protein foods that have been processed.
Dr. Reid has indicated that gelatin derived from collagen from animal by-products is perfectly healthy to eat, but in many cases nowadays it is actually derived from hydrolyzed collagen. It’s the hydrolyzation process that is problematic as it frees the glutamate in the process–creating a molecule which can be overexcitatory to the brain and nervous system–which makes it harmful to the most vulnerable among us. The problem is that in most cases it’s impossible to know whether the collagen/gelatin was produced in the more traditionally way (from animal by-products) or whether the quicker, easier way of hydrolyzing collagen has been used.
My daughter and I have taken Dr. Reid’s advice and avoid any and all foods (all processed) that may have problematic ingredients in them, and have also switched to only supplements that use vegetarian (not gelatin) capsules. This has made a big difference in our journey toward physical and mental wholeness.
Here are a couple resources on Dr. Reid and her work:
–http://www.missionheirloom.com/understanding-glutamate. (A brief explanation of the collagen/gelatin problem is given herein.)
–http://unblindmymind.org/. (This website contains a video giving Dr. Reid’s story.)
I hope this can be helpful to someone!
Thanks Cheryl I did find this helpful.glad you found some answers.
Great–so glad to hear it Claudine!
Hello Trudy, It is so valuable for me to read your emails and articles – thank you!
I’m taking for a few months Collagen Beauty powder from Susy Cohen. Although I have for a long time, some disturbing body symptoms, I don’t feel the collagen is making them worse. Now I want to try for the digestive system the L- Glutamine powder, is it ok to take it while I’m also taking collagen? Does L Glutamine have sometimes negative effects on body and sleep as the collagen?
Thank you and Warm Regards, Rachel
Rachel
I’m not aware of there being an issue but best is to trial it. For some glutamine can be a bit stimulating and for others it’s calming
I’m eternally grateful to you, Trudy, for telling us that collagen can cause a sleep problem, as I might not have figured it out. To solve the problem, I use the collagen before noon, though it doesn’t keep me from napping in the afternoon. The other thing is I take only 2 teaspoons a day or less of Native Path collagen. I didn’t read every comment but it seems that people discontinue the collagen, and I’m wondering why they don’t reduce the dose
Mary
Thanks for this feedback and great idea to reduce the amount (and/or also add tryptophan in some cases if needed)
Hello — re SKIN and MENTAL HEALTH without ingesting animal collagen:
Now getting into early senior adult years (65yr) I am female and have been living with lifelong symptoms of depression, anxiety and other mental health issues….. especially pre menstrual, and then perhaps even more post menopause.
Anyway, I would like to stop eating and consuming animals and any products that harm animals.
▪But I do not know how to be fully vegan or compassionately vegetarian while still having enough healthy protein, collagen, gelatin, B12… and whatever else one needs in order to be a pysically and mentally- emotionally healthy young senior female– including FIRMER SKIN– as a non flesh or non animal product eater-consumer.
I would like to ask tips about the above …
▪… AND ALSO suggestions and/or resources about non-animal-body Collagen and Gelatin products AND directly from FOOD sources — vegan and/or just vegetarian?
…On a related note, my SKIN is suddenly getting very saggy, since I recently became very depressed and was not able to eat as much as I need to be healthy, including protein, collagen, etc.
▪–Any tips about how to get my SKIN back in shape without eating animal flesh?
▪–Is increasing vitamin C in order to help the body produce collagen, enough to produce optimim firm skin, instead of eating animal collagen, or is there more involved? –Thank you 🙂
JJ
I am an advocate for eating quality animal protein especially when someone has mental health issues. If one chooses to eat a vegetarian diet, I like to recommend at least the inclusion of pastured eggs and making sure to get enough zinc, B12, iron and omega-3s. For firm skin: vitamin C, zinc, staying hydrated, keeping out of the sun and away from 2nd hand smoke/cigarettes.
Hi Trudy,
I’m replying to your comment about the sun and second hand smoke. If there is another blog you’d recommend I read in this subject I would greatly appreciate the reference. So I’ll make this short. I work for a large corporate Casino where smoking is allowed. Everyday we are exposed to second hand smoke, cigarettes, cigars and now vapes. Along with recycled air, air fresheners and dishwasher chemicals. Some of us have the opportunity to transfer to the outside to work in our pool area. I’m just curious it would be nice to get out of the polluted indoor air. What’s your opinion about working outside in temperatures that can get into the 100s , sun exposure, air pollution?
What’s the better of two evils ?
Dear Trudy,
I am extremely thankful and thrilled I found this webpage.
My story is so long, I dare not put it all in here!
I am a liver transplant patient (twelve years!), in good general health. I take an anti-rejection medicine that may cause insomnia and strange moods.
Because of the onset of tinnitus a few years ago, I was put on a tiny amount of nightly clonazepam (a very strong benzodiazepine). In May this year, I decided to taper myself off the clonazepam. I was very aware of the nightmare that might ensue and sure enough, went through enough trouble, but was determined to stay off that stuff.
I’ve always suffered from sleep problems, but boy! Even over two months after stopping the clonazepam, my sleep became horrible.
I have been testing many so-called natural supplements for sleep, including melatonin, trying different dosages. Sometimes it works, other times it doesn’t. I’ve tried L-theanine, 5-HTP, Valerian/chamomile combinations, etc.
I read that collagen might be good for energy and joints, so I bought a can of Sports Research Collagen Peptides and started using it at night, because I also read it would induce deep sleep with its high content of the amino acid glycine. I have used it for the past few days, one scoop (11.07 grams).
I did not take the melatonin for the past two nights and noticed that miraculously, I slept rather well. I attributed this good fortune to the collagen.
Today, I have had the worse mood day in weeks, namely fatigue, depression and an overwhelming feeing of anxiety right in the middle of my chest. I could not figure out why the sudden change, until I read your much-welcomed article in this web page, explaining the serotonin issue with collagen.
I’m not sure I’m ready to start playing around with tryptophan until I investigate further, but one thing is certain: I’m stopping the collagen cold in its tracks right now. The anxious feeling I’ve had all day today is not worth the benefit of gorgeous skin, beautiful nails and quiet joints!
Thank you so much for your commendable mission of helping those of us who suffer from anxiety and other health-related issues.
Mati
Thanks for sharing and do let us know when/if you add back collagen and if taking tryptophan with it helps
Trudy is there anything else you could suggest besides taking the Tryptophan.It raises my blood pressure.I tried 5 htp too and it seems to not agree with me either.I have purchased alot of Collagen sure would like to find something that could help.
Trudy in error in an earlier comment I said Tryptophan raises my blood pressure.Sorry it was Rhodiola that does that.Tryptophan gives me leg and muscle pain.Again if you have a solution to this or something else I could take to help with this as I have purchased alot of collagen would really appreciate it.
I began using a collagen bone broth powder about a month ago in a soup that I make and eat for lunch every day. I have been having horrible anxiety and depression for the last month as well, completely out of the blue! I have been carefully tracking everything I eat and what essential oils I am using to see what could be causing this. Two days ago I stopped eating the soup and sure enough I feel a lot better today. I will continue to stop eating the soup and see what happens. I thought I was going crazy. I also thought that the collagen powder could not possibly have been the cause, but your article has shown me that I am not crazy and that I think I have found the answer I desperately needed! Thank you!
Is there a difference between taking marine collagen vs. chicken/beef and increased anxiety. Do they both do the same thing or is one associated more than the other?
Thank you!
Sarah
Based on feedback here on the blog comments I haven’t seen there to be a difference. The way to know would be to try both. We’d love to hear back if you do.
I think it is important to be careful when we say that collagen/gelatin CAUSE tryptophan depletion. The study you originally mention does indeed use collagen/gelatin in a mix fed to rats to intentionally cause tryptophan depletion, but any mammal when fed a diet that is deficient in a specific amino acid, with develop a depletion of that amino acid. So it may be more accurate to say that they were fed a tryptophan deficient diet than that gelatin and collagen cause this depletion. If you ONLY ate collagen/gelatin and other carbohydrates like these rats did, you would develop this depletion too! However, we don’t. Most people who are supplementing with collagen/gelatin are also eating a wide variety of amino acids and getting plenty of dietary tryptophan. Do you have any specific evidence that the collagen/gelatin CAUSES direct and active depletion? Or is it just not providing dietary tryptophan? I understand that your personal experience, and those of several others you quote here, found a direct mood affect. That is compelling, but it can be scary when we make a suggestion to the public without clear scientific evidence. That simple suggestion can sway peoples thoughts (as I see in several of the responses above) and then they assume collagen is to blame or that collagen is “bad” when there are so many different causes for depression. In fact, for some individuals, collagen can help improve depression by healing up an inflamed and leaky gut.
I am a big fan of your work and see that you are not encouraging people stop collagen, but just to do the experiment themselves and see how they feel. However, most people skip those finer details and read a statement like this and immediately assume “now I shouldn’t take collagen anymore- it will make me depressed!” Please let me know if I have missed some research that did show collagens active depletion of tryptophan even when taken in a tryptophan containing diet.
Jessie Speirs ND
Naturopathic Physician
Jessie – I agree 100% with you. This discussion is not scientifically rigourous and it surprises me that Trudy cites lots of studies about ‘acute trytophan depletion’ when adding gelatin to your normal daily protein intake is unlikely to cause ‘acute trytophan depletion’ It is not until the end of the article that she states:
“Or are the negative effects some people experience due to glutamates, arginine, histamine, because of quality issues and glyphosate levels, an increase in oxalates or something else such as not eating enough animal protein?”
which was added as an edit to the article at a later stage, and is likley to be easily missed.
Natalie
This is not intended to be scientifically rigorous but rather a way to open discussion about the strong possibility that collagen/gelatin may be causing these issues in some individuals and some research we may be able to extrapolate from .
I hope my response to Jessie helps with your question. I often come back and add new information and studies that I have come across and hope folks read all the way through to then end. I am clear with new additions for folks who may have read the original. Once I have more time and more information I will be updating this further.
I’d love to hear what you’ve experienced personally and if you’re a practitioner and what your clients/patients report? and where they fit in terms of being susceptible or not?
As I said to Jessie I value questions and debate and figuring out things together for the betterment of all! If you find anything else please do let me know.
Jessie
Thanks for contributing to the discussion. This is what I’m saying:
– Collagen/gelatin does CAUSE tryptophan depletion and increased anxiety and/or depression and/or insomnia in certain susceptible individuals (because it’s deficient in tryptophan). I cite the research about who may be more susceptible than others – women, history of anxiety/depression/psych meds/OCD/smoking/recreational drug use/certain gene polymorphisms
– Collagen/gelatin does CAUSE tryptophan depletion in others and helps them feel better (because it’s deficient in tryptophan).
– For some it’s not an issue at all (are they the ones who are not susceptible? very likely or maybe for some other reason – clearly we need more research)
– And for others using tryptophan or 5-HTP offsets the tryptophan depletion.
– For others it’s something else in the collagen that is the issue
We are seeing this tryptophan depletion when it’s the only source of “protein” and when it’s used with other dietary proteins – again different for each person
I don’t feel we should be calling it protein at all – it’s a combination of a certain few amino acids. This is causing confusion for many.
I’m with you on collagen/gelatin healing an inflamed gut and improving mood – and am for collagen use for it’s many benefits but if it lowers serotonin we simply need to adjust for that. I’m very clear in the blog and my responses.
Maybe this is a good analogy: many folks with anxiety/depression have low omega3s and need to supplement with fish oil. Another subset of anxious/depressed folks who are susceptible to life stressed and oxidative stresses – those with pyroluria – do not to supplement with fish oil because they can extract it from the foods they eat. Fish oil can actually be detrimental. As a ND I know you understand biochemical individuality but I’m stating it here for other blog readers – we are all unique and have different nutritional needs and different biochemistry.
With this information I share here I do feel we are empowering folks to be in tune with their bodies and notice when they consume something and they don’t feel good. We don’t want to jump to conclusions and a good on-of-on-off trial helps to figure it out. I would not use the word “sway” but rather inform..
Right now I don’t have enough to share about “collagens active depletion of tryptophan even when taken in a tryptophan containing diet.” But I continue to gather data and have plans to do a training as part of The Anxiety Nutrition Institute (https://www.anxietynutritioninstitute.com/) and to bring in some experts and researchers to educate us. I could spend all day digging into the research for blogs like this but have other commitments one of which is my upcoming Nov Anxiety Summit 5: Gut-Brain Axis.
I’ve been interviewed on the topic (by my colleague Dr. Nicole Beurkens) and I’m sure I’ll get tons of feedback and questions that will push me to dig deeper
I’m assuming from your question that this is not an issue you’re seeing with the patients you work with? I’m curious if you’ve surveyed them or written a blog asking them? Would you mind sharing a bit about your patients and if they are perhaps already on nutrients like tryptophan, 5-HTP, zinc, B^, B complex, good multi etc making them less susceptible? Also no history of anxiety/depression/psych meds/OCD/smoking/recreational drug use/gene ploymorphisms? Mostly males?
Thanks for saying you’re a big fan of my work 🙂 – I value questions and debate and figuring out things together for the betterment of all! If you find anything else please do let me know
Yes, absolutely true for me. I was put on a Keto style high animal protein diet with added collagen a few years ago during biological dentistry root canal treatment. After a few months, I had unexplained anxiety which at times was severe. I had a suspicion that the diet was related so I quit it and introduced plenty of fruit again, and it took quite a while but it slowly improved.
Krissy
Thanks for sharing. Unless you made one change at a time it’s going to be challenging to know if it was keto, high animal protein and collagen. But glad to hear you’re doing well
Dear Brittany,
I have same problem extreem anxiety and sleepproblems after taking bone broth. It is now 3 weeks later anf still worse. How long did it took to be normal again.
Jolanda
Sorry for my english, i am dutch
I have Perthes disease which is a problem with the hip joint. I’ve decided to give collagen peptides a try to help with the issue of my hip. In the beginning of trying was good, my appetited decreased (I am overweight so this was a bonus).
After a few weeks in that effect wore off but I never stopped using collagen. Just a few weeks ago, my heart started to flutter rapidly and I had tightness in my chest. I thought I was having a heart attack.
I went to hospital and got everything checked out and the Doctor said everything was fine, my heart, glucose, etc. was all fine. It ruled out to be a possible anxiety attack. I’ve never had any issues with anxiety with my life.
Since then, I’ve been constantly worrying and getting anxiety attacks at night. So I’ve cut out any caffeine and sugar out of my diet. Then I discovered this article, thinking to myslef “Could the collagen I’ve been taking causing this?”. I’ve gave it up for 3 days so far, no major changes yet. I’m not sure how long it would take so I’m going to continue to not take it and see if any improvements in my anxiety.
I am 26 years young and after a long time a fairly healthy individual with no story of anxiety or depression. I do have a mild form of Ehlers Danlso syndrome which makes my soft tissues not that strong, so I thought supplementing with Hydrolysed collagen would be a great idea and I did so for 2 months.I have to mention that I eat a balanced AIP/Paleo diet, I track my macros and vitamins and I am a fit individual.
During those 2 months, I ended up in hospital 3 times thinking that I was suffering from a heart attack and I developed a pretty severe anxiety about death. I would have panic attacks if I see a cemetery (I have 2 around my house ) or anything releated to death would literally make me shake and couldn’t breathe. Up to that point, I had no idea of what anxiety was.
I was also taking up to 20 to 25 grams a day as I wanted to increase my protein intake and it seemed an easy way.
I decided to drop all supplements (magnesium, fish oil, vitamin c ) and symptoms disappeared within a month. I reintroduced all other supplements with success and no symptoms but when I tried again with Collagen and symptoms came back. It would be very interesting to try with tryptophan but not sure I will.
Yup, this happened to me. I started taking collagen back in June and started to experience severe anxiety and panic attacks. I didn’t make the connection at the time, but for me, it was directly associated with the collagen. I stopped taking the collagen about one week ago and my body is still adapting (still get anxiety) but I’ve noticed a significant improvement. I wish I had known this sooner.
It happened to me very quickly, in just a matter of days of taking the collagen. I did, however, take the full dose, which seemed a little high to me, but I was following package directions. And the severity of the symptoms subsided immediately also. It’s really a shame for me that I react with anxiety/depression to the collagen because I took it for my very bad knees. Now I don’t have that benefit and must seek other solutions for my knee arthritis.
Mati
Remember I’m not saying don’t use collagen but to assess for low serotonin if you use it and feel anxious, depressed or can’t sleep – and then use trytophan to see if it helps
Is everyone having depressing feelings , racing heart or troubled Sleep with collagene is having the same with home made bone broth ?
Emma
Are you?
I guess I ´m. I made a bone broth with beef tail and bones and beef cheeks, that lasted me a week, and at the end of the week I was feeling so sad, and physically depressed as well. Maybe it happened later than with the collagene powder. I don’t understand why it is like this. I don’t know if there is a link with the fact that tryptophan made me shake all night ?
I took collagen with my coffee for a week and noticed the elevated heart rate and volatile mood swings; I just thought it was my menopause symptoms getting worse but I stopped the collagen and I was fine. That was about a year ago, since then I decided to take collagen again for my hair and it worked beautifully! I have been on collagen for 2 months and it definitely makes my heart rate elevated with on and off hot flashes with some bad mood swings but I know how to control it now….
How do you control it? I would love to use it for my hair and other things but it makes my body feel heavy and my mood gets flat and causes heart palpitations. I’m trying making my own bone broth from organic free chicken to see how that goes.
Cindy
I have clients figure out what the cause is and address that. Per this article it’s often due to lowered serotonin and adding tryptophan can help in susceptible individuals
I have found cutting back the amount of collagen I take has stopped the heart racing etc.
Hi Emma,
No, it was not the tryptophan that made you feel funny, it was the LACK of tryptophan, The collagen depletes tryptophan, which is what induces good sleep.
Hello Mati, the problem is that when I tried to take tryptophan, I had racing heart and anguish crisis and did not slept at all for hours. How can it be a lack of tryptophan if I’m feeling sick when I take it ?
It is not lack of tryptophan, and collagen does not Deplete tryptophan.
Collagen contains other amino acids in larger proportion than tryptophan, and those are what could be causing your symptoms. I also had anxiety and insomnia when taking collagen –
For me, I believe it was too much glutamate, and too much glycine in the collagen. (Glycine is supposed to be calming, but it is not for me.)
Some of us can’t tolerate Tryptophan either.I can’t take all amino acids.
Hi Emma,
I have insomnia due to the liver transplant anti-rejection meds I take. For instance, I have tried numerous combinations or single dose substances to regulate my sleep. I find that it’s really hard to determine what neurotransmitters are happening in our brains, it’s a hard thing to figure out. I’ve tried 5HTP combined with magnesium, or glycine, l-theanine, just to give you some examples. These things work for some and not for others. There’s no blanket solution to mood regulation. You have to experiment a bit. I decided to stop the collagen because I figured I didn’t need yet another thing to mess my mood! But I suggest if you want to continue the collagen, that you investigate and try different things to offset this tryptophan-serotonin problem. Best of luck to you!
I have problems with both collagen and tryptophan. Depression with collagène and heart racing and insomnia with tryptophan. I wonder what the hell is going on inside me.
And what I could add other than tryptophan to be able to have collagen ?
Could it be glutamate or glycine the problem in collagen and tryptophan ?
Hi Emma,
Would you consider stopping the collagen, if it’s causing you mood problems? Also, have you tried melatonin 3 mg. time release for sleep? Life Extension makes a very good melatonin product.
Hi Mati, yes I stopped collagen because after several trials it is so awfully for my mood. I already take melatonin and it is doing nothing to me. The bigger doses makes me even awake. If all is good, a 0,30 mg can help me. But if all is not good, melatonin has no effect.
Hello,
I wanted to give you a sincere thanks for all the work you’ve done on this blog and for studying collagen and serotonin. I have been taking quite a bit of gelatin because I started a medically supervised weight-loss program a month ago and was adding the shake powder to gelatin to thicken it. I have a long history of anxiety but it has been better for several years. However, I have been really concerned because my heart hurts with anxiety like I used to have. So your article and the follow up comments have helped me since I would have continued to eat a lot of it collagen. But now I will stop. So thank you.
What’s interesting is in 2 weeks of being on the diet and eating a lot of collagen my glucose went from 190 which is diabetes to 113 which is perfectly normal. I’ve read that collagen lowers blood sugar. So hopefully it will stay down even after stopping eating gelatin.
Enid
Enid
My message is not to stop collagen, rather to address why it’s contributing to anxiety (with low serotonin being one possible factor). It’s very interesting about the lowered glucose and in just 2 weeks! I just looked at the research and see this paper stating that marine collagen “may benefit glucose and lipid metabolism, insulin sensitivity, renal function and hypertension management in Chinese patients with T2DM and hypertension.” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20739874 This is new to me and a good reason to continue with collagen!
I’m excited to have discovered this post (and I’m already a big fan of yours, Trudy!). Based on my personal research, it’s so rare to find information that suggests reasoning why people with similar symptoms might react differently to raising or lowering of serotonin. I feel doctors believe it’s a one size fits all, and this helps me to know I’m not alone in feeling that lowering serotonin can be helpful for some, while raising it will help others.
My son has anxiety which runs in the family, and worse, he has OCD symptoms. He is not the washing hands type, or everything has to be lined up perfectly or anything, but he has debilitating tics, which cause him sometimes to tap something, maybe a doorknob or his face, and it has to be the right amount of times and just the right way. He has more fears at night than in the day, and has a horrible time falling asleep without melatonin, which I really don’t like giving to him, but he will be up all night without it. That’s the short version.
After much research and journaling, I’ve discovered that anything that raises his serotonin levels make him angrier and his tics increase. First I discovered it was after he had a great amount of carbs one day. Then I noticed it with things like 5-HTP. The worst period for him was when I was giving him inositol, which many say helps OCD, but again, one size doesn’t fit all, and I didn’t yet realize it was the inositol that was increasing his anger and emotional distress.
I did a neurotransmitter test on my son, which I believe partly. Many experts deny that you can get accurate readings of neurotransmitters through urine, and I’m on the fence about it, but it did show he had high serotonin levels, which coincides with my earlier findings.
I can say that I have tried collagen last year, but only for about a week. I used Dr. Axe’s Ancient Nutrition, and while it didn’t rid him of tics or anything, my notes were that he did get a good sleep with it a couple times. I didn’t see enough of an improvement to continue, but for the sake of this discussion, I do think it’s important to note that it did not make him any worse.
Having read the above, I want to scientifically approach gelatin and re-approach collagen. I’m not sure what direction to take as far as what type of gelatin, and what doses of each, etc. (Any suggestions?)
I’ll post my results!
Scott
Thanks for reaching out to share this about your son and well done with all your sleuthing. This is the only place where I write about high serotonin and one way to possibly lower it. And yes there is never a one size fits all.
Right now it’s purely theoretical and based on feedback from folks in my community and some of the research that seems to point to some folks being susceptible to the serotonin-lowering effects of collagen. For this reason I don’t feel we can adequately say what type of collagen/gelatin and amount may help – trial and error is best. The fact that it’s helped with sleep in the past is a good start. I have yet to look into the work of Ray Peat (be aware he is very much against the use of tryptophan for everyone – we differ in this regard).
When you emailed us you mentioned that BCAAs also helped your son – can you please share which amino acids were in the product and how much of each helped? and how they helped?
I have also not found urinary neurotransmitter testing to be accurate and one could confirm with platelet serotonin testing which research shows does correlate with CSF fluid (offered by this lab http://europeanlaboratory.nl/ – look for Biogene amines (neurotransmitters) in blood platelets). Oragnic acid testing may help too.
Ruling out PANDAS and gluten-removal is always key. And I had some feedback recently where removal of fluoride resolved tics in a young girl. As always a full functional medicine and nutritional work-up is warranted.
Thanks too for the positive feedback about the summit, my articles and this blog!
Hi Scott,
I applaud your scientific approach to your son’s problem and thank you for pointing out and validating the fact that it’s not a one-size-fits-all world of nutrition out there.
We should be more careful and consider each individual’s possible reactions to any supplement.
I hope you find a resolution to your son’s OCD distress and wish you both the best.
Hi Trudy,
THANK YOU for your additional information. Fluoride?! I never would have thought that! I think a change in toothpaste is imminent now and I think it we’ll switch to bottled water
Yes, I have found BCAA to be helpful. This is not something I do daily, but I now give it to him if he eats a lot of carbs. I also have noticed if he seems more ticky and irritable a day after eating a lot of carbs, I can give him the BCAA that day, too, and it helps. It doesn’t get ride of the tics, but gets them and his mood back to normal.
I’ve been giving him 2 capsules of BCAA 2:1:1 by Bodytech. The serving size of 3 capsules includes L-Leucine 1200mg, L-Isoleucine 600mg, L-Valline 600mg.
An update on the collagen, I have been including a scoop of Ancient Nutrition collagen in a homemade green juice and have not seen positive or negative results after four days.
Thanks, Trudy!
Scott
I had been using first gelatin and then vital proteins collagen for over 5 years and attributed lowered mood and severe fatigue to stressors in my life as well as increasing bloating and weight gain. Then I started losing scalp hair and my eyebrows and eye lashes and I panicked and went through a whole big diagnostic workup for thyroid issues or food intolerances and in the middle of that quit vital proteins had better mood and energy and started to regrow hair and then lost that progress when I restarted gelatin. I started all of this to try to soothe IBS type issues and once that resolved I kept on because I had a lot of inconvenient loose skin from having twins that the collagen supplementation was slowly permanently but permanently shrinking and healing. I’ve been wanting to continue to take collagen at least a bit longer for that reason so will look into balancing it with tryptophan. I also have drank bone broth in the past it was not as effective for healing skin but I’m not sure that I had side effects from that maybe it has the tryptophan. Anyway sending appreciation for this article and also throwing out the hair loss symptoms in case anyone has experienced that
Collagen follow-up: My son has been taking a scoopful of Ancient Nutrition collagen every day and we have seen no results either way. It definitely has not made him more anxious nor ticky, however his tics and anxiety, particularly at night, have not diminished at all. It has only been 9 days and I’m always unsure how long to keep trying something. (I’m open to suggestions.) We’ll continue with the collagen for now. Unfortunately, he is still getting up at least once almost every night, so it’s not helping with his sleeping. But this was occurring before he started taking collagen, so it is not related to the collagen.
Two days ago I also started removing fluoride. We changed his toothpaste and he is now only drinking spring water. He had been drinking about 40-60 oz. of filtered tap water, but I don’t think our refrigerator filter gets rid of fluoride.
Following up on Trudy’s post, we can’t rule out PANDAS, however he never had strep throat or scarlet fever. He’s 14 now, and looking back we realize so much of this goes way back, even as young as 5 years old. Although all doctors have disregard this, he had night terrors as a baby which I believe is related. Maybe it was the earliest symptoms, maybe it contributed to it. To date, night times are so hard for him. Going to bed alone drives up his anxiety. As a baby he would wake up screaming and crying, and we tried to hold him and talk calmly but he wouldn’t stop, and we learned to just put him on the ground on a blanket safely, and let it go. We’d stay by him and just gently touch him and talk to him, and it could go on 10-20 minutes and then suddenly stop. You could even see it in his face. He was nursing, so it wasn’t anything he was eating but maybe it was something my wife was eating. Not sure if it’s related but he had a couple yeast issues when he was a baby, including thrush, and did have prescription medicine for it. I wish I knew if those night terrors were before or after that.
Just wanted everyone to know the latest. I know that if we see big results we won’t know if it’s the fluoride, the collagen or a combination, but if we see positive results, at least we know can narrow it down from there. If we find anything that works, I’ll post it with the hopes it will help others, too.
Thank you for this great article!! With the popularity of collagen still growing fast I have been trying to raise awareness of the collagen-tryptophan issue, suggesting people either look for a brand with tryptophan added or take a small amount of tryptophan with their collagen. Lots of people are surprised to hear about this. I will start directing them to this blog! You do a great job of showing both sides of the story, not fear mongering, well referenced, etc. Much appreciated.
Kate
Thanks for contributing to the discussion and thanks for your kind words. I’d love to hear how you made the connections and how commonly you see it to be an issue?
I’m not in favor of brands with added tryptophan because I’ve found it’s not a lowering of serotonin issue for everyone
Hi, I was listening to a podcast that I believe you hosted last summer. If I remember correctly, you made very brief reference to the use of collagen and sore feet. Could you speak to that further or point me to some literature that would speak to that?
Thanks!
Leona
I experienced painful feet (hot coals/shards of glass pain) due to dietary oxalates and I was referring to this. I was eating a lot of nuts, berries and kale and some other high oxalate veggies and fruit (kiwi fruit was very bad!).
“Hydroxyproline, a component amino acid of collagen, is a potential glyoxylate precursor” and leads to the production of oxalates and glycolate (more here https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2268952/). Other than lowering serotonin this is one more mechanism that can lead to adverse effects in susceptible individuals.
Do you currently have dietary oxalate issues? and does collagen consumption make symptoms worse for you (specifically foot pain)?
I want to share my little miracle. Like many of you on this list, I had trouble taking collagen. Within just a few days I would become depressed and had a lot of anxiety. I was saddened that I wouldn’t be able to ever take collagen. And then I discovered something that really worked for me. I’ve studied nutrition for a lot of years and sometimes you have to be your own detective and experiment. My discovery all started with a chronic issue with Diarrhea for years following some inflammatory bowel issues I had. I was researching nutritional remedies for this issue and ran across an article about how people with chronic diarrhea are typically low in zinc and how if your low in zinc it causes more diarrhea ( a vicious cycle). I was already getting zinc, but pretty low amounts in my multi mineral.
I researched highly rated zinc supplements on line and began taking Now brand “L-Optizinc” (30 mg. w/copper) and within 24 hours my diarrhea subsided completely; it has been a miracle. I then began researching other articles on zinc and began noticing connections with many of my health issues and even discovered that zinc deficiencies can cause lowered GABA levels, inflammation issues and depression, just to name a few. Most of our vegetables in this country are also deficient in zinc and as one gets older zinc serum levels can tend to dip.
The the second little miracle happened and quite quickly. I found I could take collagen again and have done so now for almost 2 months straight and no depression or anxiety. I feel calmer and no longer having issues with depression. I can’t promise this will work for others but it seemed to be the missing link in my supplementation. I still also take L-Tryptophan and GABA, along with a lot of other supplements, but Zinc was the only thing I changed and what a difference.
Here’s a great article I found on zinc deficiency: Zinc: An Antidepressant
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201309/zinc-antidepressant
I hope this helps some of you in your quest for answers. Blessings.
Deborah
Thanks for sharing all this and so glad to hear the addition of zinc works for you. It makes sense if the collagen is depleting serotonin since zinc is needed to make serotonin.
Just wanted to update that I stopped giving my son collagen. Although I believe he has high serotonin, giving him collagen didn’t make a difference. He was not any worse, but he showed no improvement.
Interestly, I saw a recent interview with Trudy and she mentioned a sublingual GABA and I gave that to him and he became noticeably worse. I take this as a clue. As I’ve stated before, I have reason to believe he has high serotonin, but if he had this reaction to the GABA, I’ll bet he’s also overproducing GABA. So while it didn’t make him feel better, I think it’s a very important clue that will help me to continue on a certain path for him.
Just wanted to share, as I feel all these comments are helpful to others, just as they are to me.
Scott
Thanks for the update. What a pity you didn’t observe an improvement. Keep in mind a reaction to GABA could also mean levels are good and not needed at all, too much was used in the trial or a reaction to one of the ingredients.
Thank you Trudy! Great point! I appreciate it!
Hi Trudy, I’m so glad I stumbled on your site, and I am planning to read Part 2 of this post after I leave this comment. I know I am late to the party here, but I started taking collagen supplements in capsule form about a month ago, for joint pain. At first I didn’t notice a difference in mood or joint paint, but felt pretty “stable” for the most part and wanted to give it a chance. (It’s worth noting that I am hyperthyroid patient). Suddenly, though, after the first couple of weeks of taking the collagen pills, I noticed a sudden increase in anxiety, which I attributed to worries about the pandemic. Then I also noticed a major return of night waking and early morning anxiety — much worse than usual. That’s when I got online and discovered your site. I am willing to bet it’s the collagen capsules. I was religiously taking 4 a day, spread out through the day. I stopped them yesterday morning after reading your article. I work up feeling better this morning and will continue to monitor the situation. I would like to try the tryptophan and the GABA, and perhaps combine them with the collagen to see if that helps. Thanks so much for the work you do. I plan to order your book as well.
I have taken collagen peptide.then breathing problems and insomnia started.insomia still running after 2y 6m after.pl help.
Santosh
I would look into possible low serotonin triggered by the collagen and address this.
Thanks so much Trudy for getting all the careful research and thought over to us so well. It’s really appreciated as the topic has affected me for over 30 years, and so many others, including several others close to me.
Adaptation is the one thing which always seems to be missing from health advice wherever i seek it. People who’ve drunk, smoked or used other drugs regularly (including medicines like antidepressants) have probably all experienced this adaptation. I guess ecstasy or an SSRI increase your serotonin in the short term, but they probably don’t in the long term. And a muscle grows after stressing it because it adapts, right? Our metabolism adjusts to our food intake, and our insulin resistance adapts to the amount of insulin we are producing. Hypothalmic-pituitary axes are governing our bodies based on these feedback mechanisms too. But nobody every seems to talk about how these short- and long-term effects are often opposed: Sometimes you need to go two steps down to go three steps up, right?
When i read “therapeutically” in your article i wondered if you might be going to address this. Do you think it’s possible that in the case of this article, depleting tryptophan could therapeutically help resensitize our serotonin systems, perhaps strategically with a brew before bedtime and regeneration?
I just feel like the absolutely overwhelmingly dominant advice (and research) is all about short term effects, and they may even be the opposite of the sustainable effects. I understand why this is: longer term effects are harder to prove with such certainty so they are avoided by researchers because journals won’t publish stuff which isn’t so reductionist and is necessarily more probabilistic. To be honest this misunderstanding of science and risk seems the root of most of humanity’s short termism, but this probably isn’t the forum for that 🙂
Again, thanks Trudy for the article.
I guess my question was, and still is, do you think it’s possible that depleting tryptophan could therapeutically help resensitize our serotonin systems, kind of the opposite to something which might be desensitizing it (i don’t know, perhaps an SSRI or ecstasy)?
All the best, Jon.
Jon
I have seen no research indicating this may be happening and my gut feeling says probably not but I don’t honestly know
I stumbled across your article during a Google search trying to connect the dots with my collagen supplements and collagen stimulate drops (not an actual collagen supplement). I noticed with collagen supplements that within a few hours, I felt very grumpy and irritable. It took me about a week to make the connection. I tried several different products; all with the same impact.
So I recently switched to a collagen stimulate thinking perhaps my body just didn’t like the foreign collagen. And within about a week, I now have the same grumpy and irritability creeping back in.
I’m curious if that perhaps means I should stop altogether or just add something to boost serotonin. Curious to your thoughts?
Carolyn
As I mention in the blog if someone is seeing benefits from collagen and also noticing mood issues I have them figure out if low serotonin is the mood trigger and address this with tryptophan or 5-HTp so they can continue to use collage.
I’m not familiar with collagen stimulate drops – can you please share a product name and/or link, and share how much you used. Also which collagen product did you use and how much?
When I use collagen I notice my trigger finger acts up. I think it upsets the arginine/lysine balance. I can take extra lysine with the collagen but it doesn’t seem to help that issue. I wish I could take collagen so if someone has a solution I’d be interested in hearing of it. (It is said to be an issue with people with the herpes or shingles but I’ve never had either.)
Kathy
I would consider the possibility it may be related to an oxalate issue
Apologies for the delay in your comment approval and my response. We had a computer glitch where a large number of comments were hidden from view in a spam folder. It mostly affected new folks who were commenting for the first time but it’s hopefully resolved now.
I’m 27 and usually a happy, anxiety free individual. That was until I started taking collagen powder on my smoothies post-workout about a month ago. I did for the beauty benefits, hair, skin and nails, and did notice a huge change and growth on both hair and nails. However, the first unusual side effect was breaking out, like I haven’t in years. Then it came the feelings of anxiety and a sudden depression I’ve never felt this way before. For someone who’s always loved their life and routine, I was feeling weird, constantly down and having intrusive, negative thoughts all the time. Things that usually made me happy wasn’t just doing anymore. I knew this wasn’t myself and it wasn’t normal. My husband pointed out the only different thing I’ve been doing in my routine was taking collagen. I took Live Wells Collagen for about a month, and during that month the beauty benefits, unfortunately, did not outweigh the mental health side effects. Strangely, my husband too was drinking from the same fruit smoothies with 1 scoop of collagen and had no negative side effects of it. In fact, he had less anxiety. Each individual is different which is a bummer because I enjoyed the beauty benefits. But mental sanity is far more important.
If anyone knows of good alternative to taking collagen that will equally promote hair, nails growth and benefit skin, please do share.
I’m all for being able to buy health supplements you can benefit from at anytime, but I don’t think collagen should just be simply sold over the counter. It’s too risky when it comes to mental health. Everyone is different which means you can’t/shouldn’t just start taking because your friend or neighbor did so and liked it.
MP
Thanks for sharing your stories and yes each individual is different. Horsetail and other herbs may be an option to look into if someone prefers to use tryptophan or 5-HTP with collagen
Apologies for the delay in your comment approval and my response. We had a computer glitch where a large number of comments were hidden from view in a spam folder. It mostly affected new folks who were commenting for the first time but it’s hopefully resolved now.
I know this is years after you posted this, but if you see this comment, could you let me know how long it took before you felt like yourself again? This exact thing happened to me and I have been off the collagen for a month and am still struggling with the intrusive thoughts and depression
Just started collagen peptides by Naka Platinum and had immediate anxiery/insomnia issues even with a small amount (1/4 t). Would love to keep taking as after just a week I have positive results as well, such as improved skin. Yur suggestion to try with trytophan supplement but I have heartburn and severe stomach pain with even trace amounts. Same for 5htp and gaba, I have HS sibo with high histamine intolerance. Any other suggestions as to how to assimilate collagen?
Deborah
Thanks for sharing. Using the amino acids sublingually/opened on to the tongue may be an option.
Apologies for the delay in your comment approval and my response. We had a computer glitch where a large number of comments were hidden from view in a spam folder. It mostly affected new folks who were commenting for the first time but it’s hopefully resolved now.
Hi, I was wondering if you came across anything that mentioned if it was safe to take a 5-htp supplement along with the collagen?
Christine
Your question is not clear. If someone has low serotonin I’d have them do a trial of either tryptophan or 5-HTP and both are fine to use with collagen
Apologies for the delay in your comment approval and my response. We had a computer glitch where a large number of comments were hidden from view in a spam folder. It mostly affected new folks who were commenting for the first time but it’s hopefully resolved now.
Hi Trudy
I suffer from chronic pain for years now and collagen does help take the edge off however the side effects have scared me away. I have been a vegetarian my whole life and I know that I am very collagen depleted due to my diet. When I take my 10mg supplement I have severe anxiety and low mood the next day. Without fail. If I take it a few days in a row I am a sad and anxious mess. I have multiple chemical sensitivities and suffer from gut issues so I have to be cautious in general. Is there a lower dose collagen supplement you recommend? Along with tryptophan? I am ok if it’s non vegetarian so long as it is organic. I am also open to vegan collagen. Thank you so much
Mrs Ali
As I mention in the blog, if you have observed a mood dip or increase in anxiety since using collagen, I suggest you stop using collagen/gelatin and see how you feel, then add it back and see how you feel. You’ve already done this and see a correlation. Next step is to do the low serotonin questionnaire and a trial of tryptophan (after checking the precautions) to see if this improves mood when using collagen.
Apologies for the delay in your comment approval and my response. We had a computer glitch where a large number of comments were hidden from view in a spam folder. It mostly affected new folks who were commenting for the first time but it’s hopefully resolved now.
Trudy,
I am so thankful to have found your information. I started taking Vital Proteins collagen three days ago. I also added additional supplements to start the new year, vitamin C , Fish oil, magnesium and Nature’s Bounty Hair, skin and nails. I have not been able to get to sleep the past few nights and when I do, I toss and turn ( bad nightmares).
I had a prophylactic bi-lateral mastectomy in 2009 and a full hysterectomy in 2012 due to being BRCA1+. I am very concerned about my body aging pre-maturely due to these surgeries. I also suffer from IBS and I want to take the collagen due to all the health benefits. If I am understanding your research correctly, perhaps I should try adding 5-HTP and tryptophan in the evening to see if it helps. Would you agree?
Krista
Correct if the sleep problems are due to lowered serotonin from the collagen then tryptophan or 5-HTP is likely to help.
Apologies for the delay on your comment approval and my response. We had a computer glitch where a large number of comments were hidden from view in a spam folder. It mostly affected new folks who were commenting for the first time but it’s hopefully resolved now.
I have been taking collagen peptides every morning for the last year in my coffee. I also take tryptophan, melatonin and sometimes 5 HTP before bed. I have not noticed any anxiety, but one reader commented about trigger finger and that happens to me occasionally as well. Might just be low magnesium but I take that on a regular basis as well so not sure.
Kathy
Thanks for contributing to the discussion and sharing your experiences. I’d also look into gluten and inflammatory foods with trigger finger.
Apologies for the delay in your comment approval and my response. We had a computer glitch where a large number of comments were hidden from view in a spam folder. It mostly affected new folks who were commenting for the first time but it’s hopefully resolved now.
I’ve been curious about the difference between collagen products and products like Designs for Health PurePaleo bone broth protein powder.
As I understand it there is collagen in bone broth along with lots of other beneficial elements. But collagen is collagen alone. So curious if you’ve seen these ATD symptoms related to bone broth protein powders in the same way as with collagen powders.
Thanks for all you do Trudy Scott!
Carol
I have not and I’m curious to hear what you have seen? There is this research published May 2019 – Bone Broth Unlikely to Provide Reliable Concentrations of Collagen Precursors Compared With Supplemental Sources of Collagen Used in Collagen Research. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29893587. I don’t know if this would also apply to bone broth powder (which I assume is more concentrated than home made bone broth).
Apologies for the delay in your comment approval and my response. We had a computer glitch where a large number of comments were hidden from view in a spam folder. It mostly affected new folks who were commenting for the first time but it’s hopefully resolved now.
I found something that works for me in terms of collagen causing increase in depression. I was taking, and still am, extra GABA, L-Tryptophan, melatonin and valerian for sleep issues, but it didn’t reduce the depressed feelings that would come up typically within just 3 days of starting up collagen. I had been doing a lot of research on my own and realized based on symptoms that I may have been deficient in Zinc, a common deficiency due to soul depletion. I checked my supplements and discovered I wasn’t getting much. Upon starting a Zinc supplement I no longer have that issue and have been taking collagen powder now for 10 mos. with no side effects of depression. I have taken zinc supplements with around 30-50 mg. range and ones with a small amount of copper as larger amounts of zinc tends to deplete our copper. Everyone is different, but perhaps this will help someone. Take a look online at “all” the benefits of zinc, it may surprise you.
Deborah
Thanks for sharing your solution. Zinc is needed for neurotransmitter production so this may be the mechanism especially if tryptophan supplementation wasn’t enough.
Thanks Trudy. I discovered this deficiency as I realized I also had been showing other symptoms of zinc deficiency such as poor immunal health, seasonal allergies, etc. Now I’m doing better and can take collagen. Sometimes one has to be their own detective.
Hi Gloria,
Which SSRI do you take that allows for such a small amount, I’m curious. I suffer from tinnitus and have avoided an anti-depressant for fear it will aggravate the tinnitus.
I suspended all kind of supplements. The collagen almost killed me, anxiety, panic attacks, depression, tinnitus, dizziness, irregular heart ritmic . I was in the emergency room two days, my body was totally decompensated. All the tests said that I was fine. When I read in your website the article about the relation between serotine and collagen I was in shock. I suspended the collagen and I have been better little by little. I decided that I don ‘t put any other artificial substance inside my body, never, nothing, not even vitamins, only healthy food, that’s it. I would like to sue the company that produce the killer collagen.
Olga
Thanks for sharing. I am sorry to hear how collagen affected you. I wonder if your response may have been due to low serotonin AND glutamate/oxalate/histamine issues? Glad to hear you are getting better.
Can you share what product you used, how much you were using each day? Also how much protein you consume on a daily basis and what kind of protein? How you react to home made bone broth. If you’re comfortable with sharing how you score on the low serotonin questionnaire (now or in the past i.e. are you prone to low serotonin) and if you’re using a SSRI (or have in the recent past), this may help us piece the puzzle together.
I do wish collagen companies included a warning for susceptible individuals.
As much sympathy as I have for you, we have to be aware that even healthy foods can cause issues – take spinach, nuts, blueberries and dark chocolate as an example. These are all harmful for someone with oxalate issues.
I used Youth Theory from Costco. The product does not have any warning. Actually, they say only wonderful things about the product and they say that not bad effect have ben reported. I used to take only 4 pills per day for years, they say 6, fortunately I did not take much, just when I started to take 6 I was very sick.
I don’t have idea about my level of serotonin, how could I know that? what kind of test?
I have noticed that when I eat spinach I can not sleep. I have been eliminating the spinach from my diet, the same thing with chocolate.
I need your help.I would appreciate any suggestion.
Olga
Olga
The best way to determine if someone may have low serotonin is to look at the low serotonin symptoms, rate them on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being worst, do a trial of tryptophan or 5-HTP and rate the symptoms again right afterwards (in the next 2 to 30 minutes). Here are the symptoms https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-mood-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/
I always start with the questionnaire/symptoms and a trial of tryptophan or 5-HTP if there are low serotonin symptoms i.e. worry-type anxiety.
This blog is a good introduction to tryptophan and low serotonin: Tryptophan for the worry-in-your-head and ruminating type of anxiety https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/tryptophan-worry-head-ruminating-type-anxiety/
Feel free to search the blog as I’ve written much about this topic.
If you are new to the amino acids (and other anxiety nutrition solutions like gluten/sugar/caffeine removal, blood sugar control, gut health, pyroluria etc) my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” is a great place to start. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/store/aafsbook.html
Regarding oxalate issues this is a good starting point – Oxalate crystal disease, dietary oxalates and pain: the research & questions https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/oxalate-crystal-disease-dietary-oxalates-and-pain-the-research-questions/
I found this article interesting because I have these symptoms too when taking collagen. I get severe panic attacks and before I read this article I stopped taking collagen and noticed they went away so I started again and they came back, I noticed a correlation. However my collagen which is total body collagen does supplement with 100 mg of L-tryptophan so I’m not sure if it’s just simply the collagen that has a negative affect on some people, even when you do supplement with L tryptophan.
Marie
Thanks for sharing your experience. It’s good to see Total Body Collagen includes tryptophan however it’s only 100mg per serving. The typical starting dose of tryptophan is 500mg and going as high as 2000-4000mg in divided doses daily so for susceptible folks this is likely not enough if it’s the low serotonin issue.
Other factors that may contribute to anxiety could be histamine, oxalate, glutamate or arginine.
So this is for the collagen I am 31 years old and am now experiencing some feelings of high anxiety and head ache like in my face and around my eyes kinda feels like pressing it’s been 5 days since I stopped the collagen which I only started taking a week ago my question is how to get the collagen out of my system as quickly as possible it’s been 5 days and I’ve still been feeling very bad. I went to the hospital and they didn’t really understand me so I left. Can anyone on here help me?
Aubry
I don’t know if sauna or activated charcoal supplementation may help but it’s something I’d consider if medical reasons for the face/eye pressure have been ruled out. Tryptophan would help the anxiety if it’s caused by reduced serotonin and GABA if it’s caused by high glutamate.
Dear Aubry,
I have the same for 3 weeks now, i am very anxious, sleepproblems. What worked for you. And how long did it took too be normal
Sorry for my english, i am dutch.
Jolanda
Hi Trudy. I just finished your book and have to say how awesome it is ! A wealth of information. As I am struggling with many of the issues, I do have a question on bone broth and collagen. I have definitely noticed extreme anxiety and inability to sleep with bone broth and collagen supplement.(plus spring allergies are at play as well) I even tried a piece of Turkey with ny bone broth this week to see if that helped. I have such gut issues I was really hoping to use bone broth. Anyway, my question is how long after stopping bone broth does it take for this anxious feeling to leave? Days or weeks? I want it cleared out before I try adding tryptophan with the broth.
Thank you
Diane
Diane
Thanks for the great feedback on my book! I’m afraid I don’t have an answer on how long symptoms can last. I would consider doing a trial of tryptophan or 5-HTP with someone who suspect the collagen or broth triggered low serotonin symptoms.
Keep in mind that spring allergies can often make things worse. I blog about this here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/5-htp-and-or-tryptophan-to-help-with-increased-anxiety-panic-attacks-and-depression-caused-by-spring-allergies/
I tried bovine collagen peptides to help my hypothyroidism. After two weeks my anxiety levels went through the roof. I had to stop.
Recently I tried l-tryptophan with some other amino acids at low dose. My depression was so bad that my doctor put me on fluoxetine. I started to experience excruciating pain in my legs from hips to feet after only 10 Prozac tablets and it took 6 weeks to resolve. No painkiller even touched the bone ache. I didn’t know whether it was the tryptophan or the Prozac so I waited for 2 months and took one amino acid/ tryptophan tablet and the pain started again. I waited for a few weeks and reintroduced the Prozac and within 2 hours the leg pain started and took a week to resolve. It appears anything that encourages serotonin has a bad effect on me pain wise and collagen causes anxiety.
I was told by a functional medicine practitioner that after toxin testing I had extremely high levels of mold. Also Mercury, aluminium and formaldehyde. I’m now trying a detox but don’t know whether this is the cause of the serotonin problem. I don’t know what to take to tackle my depression, exhaustion, insomnia and anxiety. I seem to be out of options. Any suggestions, Trudy? I cannot take levothyroxine as it causes heart thudding anxiety except in the tiniest of doses so my hypothyroidism cannot be resolved as T4 is the only treatment UK offers, I’m obviously not converting T4 to T3 or my T3 receptors are blocked with rT3. Doctors here just laugh at the idea of rT3 being a problem. Any suggestions would be greatly helpful.
Judith
Yes, collagen lowers serotonin in susceptible folks and can cause anxiety.
Bone pain with Prozac is not common but research shows that long-term Prozac makes bones weaker by slowing down new growth (presumably causing pain)
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2104592-antidepressant-makes-bones-weaker-by-slowing-down-new-growth/
I’ve not heard of anyone report bone pain with tryptophan use and would need to know what product/ingredients before commenting further.
For low serotonin symptoms I’d explore 5-HTP, light therapy and exercise; for low doapmine a tyrosine trial (also helps the thyroid) and for low GABA a trial of GABA. Also diet is foundational.
If you are new to the amino acids (and other anxiety nutrition solutions like gluten/sugar/caffeine removal, blood sugar control, gut health, pyroluria etc) my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” is a great place to start. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
The mold, metals and toxins may be a factor and need to be addressed.
Hi Trudy. I’ve just written another comment not realising you had replied to this. Thanks. I will need to find the mental and physical energy to go back to my FMP for light therapy – it seemed to work. I’ve been thinking about dopamine. I tried GABA and it didn’t help. I also have severe histamine issues. I removed gluten, caffeine, dairy and soy years ago, but I struggle with intense sugar cravings. I also take spore probiotics every day. I will give tyrosine a try. My inflammation markers are very high.
Judith
Keep in mind that collagen/gelatin are also high histamine and can be an issue for some folks via this mechanism.
I have clients focus on what works. If light therapy works I reccomend they get an at-home SAD/full-spectrum lamp – more here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/winter-blues-sad-light-therapy/
It’s also important to recognize that some of the distressing symptoms can be related to the high histamine levels in collagens and bone broths, especially for those sensitive to histamines in foods.
Suzanne
Absolutely and I do mention this. The clue that it’s serotonin would be no more issues with the inclusion of tryptophan or 5-HTP. The clue that it’s a histamine issue is other issues with high-histamine foods and more of a histamine reaction. And it could be a combo
I tried hydrolysed collagen peptides for two weeks and my anxiety went through the roof. I have Hashimoto’s and on some thyroid sites serotonin is described as not the feel good neurotransmitter everyone thinks it is if you have thyroid disease. I was put on Prozac and Mirtazapine and the pain they caused in my legs was excruciating. I tried an amino acid blend with L/tryptophan and had the same pain in my legs. I also have mold toxicity and I’m wondering if there is a connection? At the moment all I can tolerate is St. John’s wort.
I recently started a new Omega-3 blend and my anxiety has shot up again – weird heart beats and difficulty breathing at night. I checked the ingredients and the capsule shells are made of gelatine. Getting pretty hopeless now as I cannot tolerate T4 except in tiny doses as it ramps up anxiety. Was prescribed beta blockers but then read they are thyroid suppressive. Don’t know where to turn – I have abreactions to everything. Depression after 10 years of this is getting worse.
Judy
Mold toxicity could be an underlying factor. I would seek out a practitioner who is well versed in this area.
Can you kindly share the product name for the amino acid blend with L-tryptophan?
Perfect Amino by Advanced Bionutritionals.
I’ve tried a mold detoxifier called PectaSol but it gave me really bad cramps low in the pelvic area, like being in labour – that bad. I saw a gynaecologist last year and everything was fine. This pain is also brought on by taking any kind of sex hormones, synthetic or phyto or bio identical. Trying to arrange a colonoscopy now.
Judith
Thanks for sharing the product name. I see nothing that would contribute to bone pain but since we are all unique I have clients avoid things that cause adverse effects. Also the only way to be sure it’s the tryptophan causing an issue would be to take tryptophan on it’s own.
I’m reading the benefits of taking collagen but as a vegetarian, I do not consume animal products. Is there a vegetarian alternative that would benefit vegetarians?
Cherylle
I’m afraid I don’t have a product recommendation. Many come up with a web search so best to investigate those and ask other vegetarians. Do let us know what you find
And if you ever get anxiety or mood issues do consider incorporating animal protein. It makes a difference.
If you become anxious, tense, irritable, can’t sleep AND have some issues with itchy skin, frequent urination, worsened gut issues, etc., then it’s a histamine problem from the collagen/glycine, and not serotonin at all.
Kelly
It could actually be both since low serotonin can cause anxiety, tension, irritability and insomnia. But I agree the itchy skin, frequent urination, worsened gut issues are big clues it’s a histamine issue too or perhaps only. Gut issues would happen with both low serotonin and histamine issues. But challenges with dietary oxalates could cause all the symptoms you measure. So it’s a matter of figuring it out for each person.
Have you figured out that histamine only issues were causing your symptoms when consuming collagen?
I am taking collagen for a year. it helps me very much with my knee pain. i want to continue
taking it because I can’t take the pain, but my sleep is quite disturbed. I wake up after 3 hours.
I like to add L-Tryptophan at bed time I need to research and see what side effects it has.
thank you so much for this information. i was wondering about this change and my sleep.
Azar
There are many blogs on this site with tryptophan information. This blog is a good introduction to tryptophan and low serotonin: Tryptophan for the worry-in-your-head and ruminating type of anxiety https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/tryptophan-worry-head-ruminating-type-anxiety/
If you are new to the amino acids (and other anxiety nutrition solutions like gluten/sugar/caffeine removal, blood sugar control, gut health, pyroluria etc) my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” is a great place to start. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
Trudy , how many hours DO you recommend taking collagen between taking tryptophan- if tryptophan should not be taken with it (given it is a protein and the recommendation is to take tryptophan away from a protein late afternoon/evening)?
-Kath
Kath
I don’t have the answer to that question. With proteins like meat or chicken or eggs or fish tryptophan is best used at least an hour on either side. I’d experiment and observe what you notice – at the same time and an hour apart. I’d love to hear back from you
So grateful to have found this article which was shared in a Facebook Group for Root Cause Protocol Consultants, of which I am one. About 2 weeks ago, I started using Vital Proteins Collagen Peptides specifically in order to add a balance of other amino acids and some protein to my pro-metabolic diet. I do eat quite a bit of muscle meat (as well as liver and kidney), and I periodically consume bone broth, but thought of the collagen more for convenience. I have never had any real depression other than transient situational experiences. I have never taken any anti-depressants, but did about 3 years ago take low dose Xanax (1/4 to 1/2 mg) on and off for about 9 months for anxiety. I do have low thyroid function (no auto-immune disorder) as a result of EBV-induced subacute thyroiditis. This has caused periods of extreme insomnia. However, as my subacute thyroiditis is resolving, my sleep had normalized to averaging 7 hours/night.
Within a week of starting the Vital Proteins Collagen (1 tsp/day in the morning with breakfast), I started having sleep interruptions. At first waking multiple times, but able to get back to sleep. Then I began not being able to fall asleep AND waking multiple times while also starting to experience acute anxiety, heart palpitations and strange, prolonged hot flashes, until finally, this week, I have been wide awake for 72 hours straight. The past 3 days have been a nearly constant state of acute anxiety, to the point where my heart is racing and I have the sensation of “vibration” throughout the inside of my body. It is almost like I’ve been plugged into an electrical socket. My husband can touch my harm and actually feel a very subtle vibration! I then started having acute diarrhea just this morning. I was at a loss as to why this was happening and was going to actually call my doctor, when I checked the Facebook Group and found that one of the other consultants had posted this article. I was still somewhat skeptical that the 1 tsp/day of collagen I was taking could cause all of this negative symptomology. However, I did your amino acid questionnaire and was shocked to find I have nearly every symptom of low serotonin. It appears that the collagen may have profoundly effected my serotonin levels despite my rather high intake of muscle meats, eggs and dairy.
I note from the comments above that it seems that Vital Proteins seem to have the most severe negative effects. A number of the consultants have pointed out that human beings were never intended to eat the hide of bovines. Hides were for making clothing, and only under extreme duress would they have been consumed, and instead of marrow, bones, etc being the source of the collagen peptides it is sourced from bovine hide. This may very well be a contributing factor.
At any rate, I stick to using food as medicine, and only wanted to try collagen for the convenience; so, it is not a real loss to stop using it. I only hope that things go back to normal soon as I am quite nearly non-functional at this point. I am unsure as to whether I may try a small amount of tryptophan if things don’t resolve quickly. I am very leery of supplements in general, and it looks like I should have had the same caution with the collagen.
Stephanie
Thanks for posting here and sorry to hear you’re having this really severe reaction, If it is as a result of serotonin depletion, tryptophan or 5-HTP will typically resolve things quickly. It may also be a glutamate or oxalate reaction so keep that in mind too.
I don’t know if the Vital Proteins collagen leads to more severe symptoms than other products. It may just be more commonly used.
Good point on the history of collagen use from hides!
Please do let us know the outcome once it’s resolved
I was wondering if this can be avoided by taking it once a week rather than daily? I did daily doses and feel absolutely awful and cant sleep due to the anxiety. Will this go away when I stop taking it? Thanks.
Jennifer
It’s worth a try but I’d expect a similar outcome. Best bet is to figure out if low serotonin is the cause and address with tryptophan or 5-HTP.
The best way to determine if someone may have low serotonin is to look at the low serotonin symptoms, rate them on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being worst, do a trial of the amino acid and rate the symptoms again right afterwards (in the next 2 to 30 minutes). Here are the symptoms https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-mood-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/
If you are new to the amino acids (and other anxiety nutrition solutions like real whole food, quality animal protein, fermented foods, organic produce, health fats, gluten/sugar/caffeine removal, blood sugar control, gut health, pyroluria etc) my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” is a great place to start. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
Very glad I found your post on this subject. Very recently I had started eating a bunch of gelatin from Jello jigglers and my anxiety attacks got triggered. I thought it was the sugar in the Jello but that probably didn’t help either. Years ago my first anxiety/panic attacks were caused by taking Gingko Biloba and I had a very hard time breathing. Since then I’ve been watching what I eat and the reactions to it.
I started taking collagen with biotin a couple of months ago but now I’m thinking of getting off collagen and just taking biotin. I had no idea collagen can also cause anxiety issues. Thanks so much for sharing this info!
Alex
For individuals who have observed an increase in anxiety since using collagen or gelatin, I suggest they stop using collagen/gelatin and see they feel, then add it back and see how they feel (sometimes more than once if they are not certain) . If they do see a correlation, look at the low serotonin symptoms and do trial of tryptophan (after checking the precautions) to see if this improves mood when using collagen/gelatin. This confirms it’s the serotonin-lowering effects and allows them to continue using it for the benefits.
If you decide to do this please let us know the outcome.
Other anxiety mechanisms include histamine, arginine, oxlalates and glutamates and the next steps are to rule these out if tryptophan or 5-HTP don’t help.
Trudy
Have just recently begun receiving your emails. I read the above article and wanted to let you know of my experience. I started taking Vital Proteins marine collagen to see if it would improve sun damage to my skin. I took one scoop for about five days. On the fifth day I felt very low. So low that it made me somewhat anxious. As I have trouble with anxiety I stopped it immediately. Felt better the next day. The container lists 19 amino acids including tryptophan but the amount of it is zero mg. I hadn’t noticed that when I started taking it. After reading your article I’m fairly sure that that is why I felt depressed.
Beth
Thanks for sharing your experience with marine collagen (and welcome to my community!) Interesting you mention your product has tryptophan listed with zero mg. When I look online I don’t see it listed on the product at all. Maybe it’s a change they have made to the label.
For individuals who have observed a mood dip or increase in anxiety since using collagen or gelatin, I suggest they stop using collagen/gelatin and see they feel, then add it back and see how they feel (sometimes more than once if they are not certain) . If they do see a correlation, look at the low serotonin symptoms and do trial of tryptophan (after checking the precautions) to see if this improves mood when using collagen/gelatin. This confirms it’s the serotonin-lowering effects and allows them to continue using it for the benefits.
If you decide to do this please do let us know the outcome.
When you are new to the amino acids (and other anxiety nutrition solutions like real whole food, quality animal protein, fermented foods, organic produce, health fats, gluten/sugar/caffeine removal, blood sugar control, gut health, pyroluria etc) my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” is a great place to start. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
Trudy, thanks for drawing my attention to this. I have been taking a teaspoon of collagen daily for 8 weeks since a minor operation, and just recently my sleep (always fragile) has been extra poor. I am a bit wary about taking HTTP or tryptophan. I have severe chronic fatigue syndrome now, it deteriorated after years of being mild, and I do react to some supplements, those two have both got question marks over them. Its hard to keep up with everything, I have brain fog and a symptom flare at the moment. But I will cut back on the collagen, to a couple of times a week. (I’m in the UK, I use True Collagen by Ancient and Brave, its from grass fed beef.)
Lindy Brett
Thanks for adding to the discussion. Please keep us posted
Dear Aubry,
I have the same for 3 weeks now, i am very anxious, sleepproblems. What worked for you. And how long did it took too be normal
Sorry for my english, i am dutch.
Jolanda
First apologies for some bad english, but I’m dutch.
> I hope you have an answer for me.
> I had started collagen, beef, from Green Lakes in October 2021, I
> took this every other day and lowest portion, then I got migraines
> and stopped, migraines lasted
> for another week.
>
> Then in December 2021 I started with another brand of collagen with
> zinc and vitamin C, which gave me sleeping problems. In February
> 2022 I started using
> beef bone broth, this every 2 days combined again with the Green
> Lakes collagen, so about 2x a week broth and 2x a week Green Lakes,
> this went well.
>
> About 4 weeks ago I got corona without significant complaints, about
> 1,5 week after that I took bone broth and an hour later I suffered
> from shortness of breath
> and restlessness. I have stopped taking collagen and bone broth, but
> the restlessness, agitation, tightness, especially fears and
> insomnia have become much more
> instead of reduced. I doubt very much whether this has been
> histamine boost, glutamate deficiency or serontine deficiency.
> There is also doubt whether covid plays a role in this with regard
> to histamine …. I don’t know what to do to reduce the complaints.
> I am very panicky and don’t even dare to be home alone anymore. This
> is now happening for nearly 3 weeks.
Is it normal that it happing for so long? I am eating histamin free but give me no release, i took tryptophan it helps sleeping but i get a weard head and dizzyness. Now i am going to try valeriaan..
>
Jolanda
I’m sorry to hear this is happening. It’s hard to know but it sounds like a combination of collagen, broth and COVID.
With restlessness, agitation, fears, being “very panicky and don’t even dare to be home alone anymore” I suspect serotonin is a factor but may not be the only one. If it’s related to lower serotonin getting relief with tryptophan or 5-HTP (and/or melatonin) will be the clue.
It may also be glutamate or histamine and with the tightness and insomnia I also suspect low GABA. Getting some relief with GABA would be the clue.
Quercetin and other approaches for histamine support may need to be explored too
When symptoms like this are ongoing we look into MCAS which can be triggered by infection. And long haul COVID may need to be considered (it can happen even with mild COVID symptoms).
Thank you for your respons.
I am Dutch and is there a method to look voor MCAS? and can this be cured?
Jolanda
Jolanda
Symptoms of mast cell activation – The patient perspective https://www.annallergy.org/article/S1081-1206(21)00494-4/fulltext
I am soooo glad I found this article. I started taking Oslo Skin Labs collagen (Verisol, so is considered good quality) half way through December 2021. Looking back that is when the problems started. I started sleeping restlessly and it got really bad in January. Full blown insomnia. My psoriasis got much worse, the blepharitis too. I have severe Endometriosis and was worried that if these other inflammation issues (psoriasis causes skin inflammation and blepharitis causes eye inflammation) were worse then maybe my endo was worse also since that can’t be checked on the outside. Besides the inflammation symptoms I was experiencing extremely bad moods, feeling tense to the point of bordering on panic attacks and also a disrupted menstrual cycle. I have been on Amitriptyline for 1,5 years and it worked wonders on my mood and sleep and just couldn’t figure out why it wasn’t working any more. Then I realised that the only thing I changed was adding collagen to my diet in my fruit/vegetable smoothie ( I don’t drink coffee). So I started Googeling and found your article and stopped the collagen immediately. Have stopped for 2 days now and already my eyes are less red and inflamed. Pfew! Its crazy and also scary how serious the side effects of collagen have been.
Do you think that besides the tryptophan lowering side effect that also the histamine might have played a part in my case? I don’t dare try the collagen with tryptophan supplement as the potential side effects are too serious to play around with. But I’m very bummed out about missing out on the skin and hair benefits.
Would love to hear your thoughts. I follow a vegetarian diet by the way and eat super healthy.
Thanks, Em
Em
I’d suspect histamine and possibly oxalates too (more on oxalates here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/oxalate-crystal-disease-dietary-oxalates-and-pain-the-research-questions/)
Please keep us posted on your progress
Small correction to my previous message: I mentioned that after having stopped taking collagen for two days now that my eyes seem a bit better and less red, but I’m not sure the difference is significant yet. Will have to wait and see how it goes I guess.
Addition to my previous message: when I started Googeling for adverse reactions to collagen I also read an article about how tumors are made up of mostly collagen and that there are worries that collagen supplements could speed up tumor growth in cancer patients. I would think this is also a major downside to supplementing collagen. Also I read an article on how eating/supplementing more protein than needed is bad for the kidneys. Maybe also something to look into while exploring the negatives.
Em
If it’s histamine or oxalate reaction it can take awhile to resolve. Quercetin often helps with histamine reactions and calcium citrate with oxalate issues. After excessive oxalate intake dumping can occur where oxalate reactions continue to happen for some time.
Collagen isn’t a complete protein since it doesn’t contain all the amino acids but oxalate issues are kidney related.
I haven’t seen any research linking collagen intake with tumors. Please share a link to the article you read
After taking bone broth i feld anxiety, restlessness, sleeping problems.
How long does it take to restore high histamine? Can you help what treatment is usefull?
I am 4 weeks futher and still sleeping disorder and anxiety.
Tried L theanine for Gaba but it makes me depressed. I tried 5 HTP and could not sleep, not for a hour.
I am stuck and very tired.
I hope you have a answer.
Kind regards
Jolanda Diepenhorst
Jolanda
Quercetin can help with histamine reactions if this is what is the cause. Histamine issues are not my expertise but here is additional info from Dr. Jill Carnahan https://www.jillcarnahan.com/2016/10/31/mast-cell-activation-syndrome-mcas-when-histamine-goes-haywire/ Do you have other histamine type symptoms?
If it’s caused by low serotonin, I’d also consider tryptophan rather than 5-HTP. Do you have other low serotonin symptoms https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-mood-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/
Can you share how long you were using bone broth before you started seeing these symptoms?
Thank you for the information. I took 2 times a week and 2 times a week collageen Great Lakes for about 2 months.
Aaaah thank you so much for sending this reminder!!! I read some of your articles about this a while back and quit taking collagen – and then COMPLETELY forgot over many months and started taking it again.
I use Bulletproof collagen, and have a serving of it most days. I have gone through a LOT with chronic illness and injuries and countless therapies over the last 30 years and sometimes it’s difficult to keep track of all of the factors that are influencing how I feel.
I just finished a SECOND series of neurofeedback (at a tremendous cost of time and money). The first time I went through it, I could not believe how it resolved 30 years of dealing with insomnia, anxiety and depression. (I was implementing lots of other healing practices as well, but the NFB made an obvious and enormous difference.) Then I had a series of surgeries that threw my progress all out the window with some totally unexpected complications. Now I’m finishing my second series of NFB, and still struggling with a level of anger, frustration and irritability that’s always right at the surface. One tiny little irritation makes me feel like I want to boil over. When I finished my first series of NFB, I had none of this, and I’ve been wondering why I can’t get over it.
I do have a long history of “depression,” i.e., massive estrogen dominance, pcos and pyroluria – to name a few things that are easy to identify. I have taken SSRIs in the past – but they made me feel awful. Wellbutrin, which increases available adrenaline-dopamine, worked well for me, for a while, until it made me feel worse. I firmly believe I have had low serotonin, dopamine, epinephrine, acetylcholine, and GABA for decades, and that my brain chemistry is generally sensitive to upset.
I really appreciate this information and reminder. I think instead of eliminating collagen again, I will pursue more supplementation with 5-HTP and/or tryptophan. I have used them both in the past. My problem with tryptophan is that I can very easily get a terrible hangover – migraine from it. I can unfortunately have that response to tiny bits of melatonin or milk thistle as well. I have some real sensitivities. I will read your other article on tryptophan and see if I can find one that’s higher quality and better tolerated.
Thank you!!!
Ava
Thanks for sharing and please keep us updated and keep in mind some folks do better with 5-HTP and some do better with tryptophan.
I had just done a very brief trial with Dr. Axe collagen product, perhaps a heaping scoop per day with food, when this article landed in my in box. Thank you!! I experienced strange dreams, felt quite weird during the day. (Sorry I’m not more specific} I was able to return the product to the store.
Previously I had figured out that I felt somewhat “off” when consuming home made bone broth, but not with meat broth. I don’t normally take tryptophan, but perhaps I should. Also do not suffer from anxiety.
Have Hashimotos, and insomnia.
I recently read that bone broths can contain high amounts of lead bc the very long boiling breaks down the bones and lead is stored in bones. I came across this in Dr.Kasia Kines book “The Epstein-Barr Virus Solution”. Apparently there is a study that found high amounts of lead in commercial bone broth/collagen powders.
I also don’t react well to supplementation with bone broth powder. I discovered this years ago bc it gave me headaches but it was only through your blog that I discovered it also depletes serotonin and I think it did have that effect on my after months of taking 1 scoop daily. I am wondering though if some of the reactions people have may (especially after long term use), may also be linked to lead accumulation. Between the serotonin depletion and the lead, it feels like there should be a warning on these products!
In the book she suggests homemade broths that are not cooked as long as a healthier option. Also, I would imagine using more meat in the soup would help with the tryptophan issue. It’s another case where food processing makes something unhealthy whereas a homemade version may be perfectly fine – closer to a whole food and still a good source of collagen (assuming one includes plenty of cartilage, skin etc).
Liz
Yes lead may be a concern and I’d suspect, as you say, longer term use to be the issue. I’m all for homemade but if someone chooses to buy read made collagen or broth best is to check with the company about lead testing.
Yes, asking about lead testing is a good idea.
Off topic, but just wanted to share this, I recently discovered that the white fillings in teeth, often contain BPA or materials that turn into BPA in your mouth, fluoride and aluminum. I’m currently trying to find an acceptable dentist where I live. It’s a full time job researching and finding alternatives! But the first step is to just be aware and then one can take steps to find alternatives.
Liz
Thanks for mentioning this about BPA in white fillings. I think it’s for the phthalate blog so I’ll share there too (https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/phthalates-found-in-soft-plastics-and-fragrances-are-the-new-bpa-and-cause-anxiety-is-this-why-the-amino-acid-gaba-is-so-often-needed-long-term/)
There is a list of better options in this study, in case anyone needs this:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5039892/
Are gelatin capsules likely to be a problem? Most of the supplements I take are in gelatin capsule form.
Bryony
I haven’t had anyone report this but if there are a large number of gelatin caps being consumed in a day there is the potential. If it’s casing low serotonin, tryptophan or 5-HTP will counter this.
Have you noticed an issue? If yes, what and how many gelatin capsules a day?
Does this apply to bone broth? I made my own in the past, but I started using bluebird provisions powdered chicken bone broth. Not sure if I was having any problems because I have other issues going on concurrently.
Thank you
Lisa
It really depends on the person but I would say yes since powdered is more concentrated than home-made bone broth. Research finds the latter is not an issue.
As always, if in doubt a trial of tryptophan or 5-HTP will provide the answer (if symptoms are caused by low serotonin)
I am using Great Lakes collagen 1scoop in the morning and 2scoops at supper. I had sleep issues not getting to sleep and waking up at 3:00am. Now again with all the covid news and news on tv I am having sleep issues not being able to call a sleep. Please give me more information on tryptophan and how much h does one take. I was taking the collegian to get more protein in me because otherwise my blood sugar gets low and I get light headed
Thank you for helping
Linda
The best way to determine if someone may have low serotonin caused by or made worse by collagen intake is to look at the low serotonin symptoms, rate them on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being worst, do a trial of tryptophan or 5-HTP,and rate the symptoms again right afterwards (in the next 2 to 30 minutes). Here are the symptoms https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-mood-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/
When blood sugar is an issue too we address that with glutamine, eating for blood sugar control and supporting the adrenals.
If you are new to the amino acids (and other anxiety nutrition solutions like real whole food, quality animal protein, fermented foods, organic produce, health fats, gluten/sugar/caffeine removal, blood sugar control, gut health, pyroluria etc) my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” is a great place to start. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/ It’s a comprehensive approach – amino acids AND diet.
Would the collagen in Bone broth have the same serotonin lowering effect?
Jennifer
Studies say no but very sensitive folks may be impacted esp if it’s concentrated/dried commercially bought vs home made. The length of cooking could possibly have an impact
I take Pure Encapsulations Hair/Skin/Nail Ultra and noticed fatigue and depression. I’m going to do a trial of one of the L Tryptophan supplements that you suggested, because the Pure Encapsulations was great for my hair and nails and terrific for my skin and joints.
Stacie
It could be due to the serotonin lowering effects of collagen but it does have a lot of other ingredients too.
Posted a question earlier about Pure Encapsulations Hair/Skin/Nails Ultra. The collagen complex contains chondroitin sulfate. Could this be what is causing the fatigue/depression? Thank you.
Thankfully, I do not use collagen or gelatin. I have been a vegetarian for over 15 years and collagen is not vegetarian. I do have serotonin problems. I have just been very sick the last week. That is why I haven’t been opening your emails. I needed emergency help 2 times in that period as well. Was severely dehydrated and needed electrolytes as all my levels were super low. I fainted due to this and needed an ambulance the first time.
Crystal
I’m sorry to hear you haven’t been well but glad to hear you are being taken care of. Be sure to read the serotonin information (and vegetarian info) in my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
There is no way I can win this battle. I been on and off of collagen for the last 5 years. I have tried it all, Tryptophan – 5HTP-GABA- Lower doses – Intermittent supplementation but nothing worked. From time to time I’d go ahead and suffer through it; very well aware of the side effects I’d feel, such as very low mood, inability to be emphatic due to lack of serotonin, sleep disorder, occasional palpitation and weakness, and more. I would do all of these just because collagen actually works, my skin clears out, my nails and hair get stronger and my eyes which is my main concern, gets much better. I really wish I was able to take this supplement without the side effects =(
Bruno
If supporting serotonin has failed then we consider oxalates, glutamates and a histamine reaction. And may also look for other ways to support collagen production.
Greetings Trudy,
I read your comments on collagen with great interest! I started with collagen over a month ago. I did notice a slight restless and dream (sometimes bad) sleep. While knowing the positive of collagen the use of any serotonin type deterrence must certainly be detrimental. So basically with the taking of collagen one must live with those side effects. (I too am against the us of serotonin) We really enjoy your site! Thank you
Dan Kennedy
Daniel
Thanks for sharing and wonderful this is interesting. BUT I’m afraid to say you’ve missed my point – collagen can lower serotonin in some folks and for those folks using tryptophan or 5-HTP eases the adverse symptoms so they can continue to use collagen. I don’t ever believe in living with side-effects.
I have been taking collagen for many months with bone broth. I do suffer anxiety but could be because I have mould toxicity
Recently I have been suffering itching all over and I wonder if the collagen is causing this. I think I saw in your article that itching can be a problem.
I just searched in iHerb and saw NOW Foods, L-Tryptophan Powder, 2 oz (57 g).
I don’t know if the amount is good or not.
Can I have your comments please, Trudy?
I’m glad I found your site.
Angela
In a situation like this – anxiety and mold toxicity and itching – I would use a similar approach, after assessing for other low serotonin symptoms. Please keep us updated.
Additional information on tryptophan here – Tryptophan for the worry-in-your-head and ruminating type of anxiety https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/tryptophan-worry-head-ruminating-type-anxiety/
If you are new to using amino acids my book is a good resource – https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
I have been using collagen (mostly from Vital Proteins) for years to help with osteoporosis/osteopenia, and some hair loss issues I had due to thyroid issues. Over the past several years, I have developed insomnia (difficulty falling asleep then waking up every 15 – 20 minutes), have been to 2 sleep doctors, and various others, but no one has been able to find a cause, and nothing seems to help. (tried prescriptions, OTC, vitamins, supplements, herbs, teas, you name it). One of the sleep doctors even told me that maybe I’m just one of those people that don’t need to sleep. What a waste of a copay!! Never dreamed that it could possibly be the result of using collagen daily. I don’t really want to give up my collagen, although I’m worn out and would love to sleep, so maybe I’ll try adding tryptophan first before going without.
Laurie
In a situation like this I would use a similar approach, after assessing for other low serotonin symptoms. Please keep us updated.
There is some very promising research on collagen for osteoporosis/osteopenia. Have you had testing to confirm the collagen is helping? Has it also helped with the hair loss?
Additional information on tryptophan here – Tryptophan for the worry-in-your-head and ruminating type of anxiety https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/tryptophan-worry-head-ruminating-type-anxiety/
If you are new to using amino acids my book is a good resource – https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
Thank you for your reply. Although the city I live in is a large city with more hospitals and doctors than anyone should need, it is sadly lacking in anything other than “traditional” medicine doctors. The orthopedic doctors I’ve seen regarding my osteoporosis won’t treat me any further because I have refused their “medicine only” treatment – no testings of any kind, no nutrition or supplement counseling, no exercise suggestions. Just take the meds and don’t fall. I am seeing an endocrinologist who is more helpful, and open to alternative methods, although I think she’d like me to take meds. (My last Dexascan showed a Zscore of -3.8 in my hips). Is there a certain test for collagen or other tests I should be taking? It has gotten worse over the last 8 years, although last Dexa stayed steady from 2 years ago.
This doctor did resolve my thyroid issue after 15 years of going to other doctors. Not one of them, until her, ever did a free T3/T4 test, and that was the problem. She put me on Armour Thyroid, and bio-identical hormone cream (total hysterectomy), and the hair loss almost completely stopped within a few months. I also began taking the collagen at the same time so not entirely positive of how much it alone is helping, but it has definitely helped strengthen my flimsy fingernails.
I will most definitely check out the resources you listed. Thank you, again, for your response.
Laurie
It’s challenging to know what’s helping when we’re making many changes – glad you’re doing better
Wow, you just helped me getting rid of itchy skin and the biggest mood swings ever! I have started to take collagen as bone broth powder a couple times a week and became itchy skin (especially in the face) and mood swings which I could not put a finger on. I have stopped taking the collagen powder for three days now and the itchy skin is gone! As I have been struggling with a bit of anxiety my entire life, I’m wondering if this indicates low serotonin levels and if and how I should check further from here. Any advice? Thank you Trudy, it would be lovely if my ruminating thoughts and monkey mind would come to a halt.
Carmen
You’re most welcome – thanks for coming here and sharing. Did the mood swings shift too when you stopped? And was anxiety more severe when using it?
Great question and yes this could be a clue that low serotonin may be a factor – in addition the longterm anxiety, ruminating thoughts and monkey mind. I have clients start with the low serotonin symptoms questionnaire https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-mood-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/ (it sounds like you already looked at it) and we do a trial of tryptophan, adjusting up and down as needed, based on symptom resolution
If you are new to using amino acids my book The Antianxiety Food Solution is a good resource for the amino acids and all the dietary factors too – https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/ You don’t mention what dietary changes have been made
Hi Trudy
Is there much research on impacts of collagen on autism and adhd. One son has Autism and one has adhd. I have been doing bone broths from young age and put gelatin I pancakes and muffins to fix gut issues.
Re
I’m not aware of any research on the use of collagen in autism or ADHD but given the fact that low serotonin symptoms are common in both conditions, I have moms watch for these symptoms (overwhelm, anxiety, panic, low mood, insomnia, worry, obsessing, lack of confidence, sugar/carb cravings etc) and consider tryptophan or 5-HTP if symptoms are more intense when using gelatin or collagen. And then track/monitor symptoms to see how they improve. Oxalates, glutamates and histamine reactions may need to be ruled out too.
Getting enough quality animal protein helps too – with possible collagen issues, blood sugar stability and mood/anxiety/sleep issues.
If you are new to using amino acids my book The Antianxiety Food Solution is a good resource for the amino acids and all the dietary factors too – https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/ You don’t mention what dietary changes have been made
Regarding collagen/joint hypermobility and autism I recently came across this 2022 paper – The Relationship Between Generalised Joint Hypermobility and Autism Spectrum Disorder in Adults: A Large, Cross-Sectional, Case Control Comparison https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2021.803334/full
Very confused writings, overcomplicating the biologically simple.
People who have chronic stress will have reduced adrenal activity from gelatin. This is good but feels uncomfortable.
Healthy people will have a good response to gelatin overall.
Simple. What’s more worrying is that the author seems to be telling people to increase serotonin, this is very detrimental. There are no “symptoms from low serotonin” except feeling good and being happy. Perpetuating the old propaganda narrative of serotonin developed from fraudulent research in the 70s. It’s the sign either of incompetence of malice, and I hope it’s the former.
Paymond
Feel free to read the research links I’ve provided
And if you have additional information about chronic stress and reduced adrenal activity from gelatin intake please do share it.
Hi. I know this blog is a few years old, but I’m just now finding it due to research I have been doing from taking collagen. I do have ocd and anxiety, but it’s never been severe or interfering with every day life. I’ve never struggled with depression or anything like that. I took collagen for 3 weeks and have been experiencing extreme ocd intrusive thoughts and depression with suicidal thoughts as well. I just feel numb and nothing makes me happy. My husband figured out it was the collagen quickly so I have been off of it for a month and have seen little improvement but the thoughts are still there. I was just wondering if you knew about how long it takes to get tryptophan/serotonin levels back to normal. I started tryptophan a week ago and have seen so improvements, but I just want to feel like myself again. My ocd was also mild and I had never had ocd intrusive thoughts until taking the collagen. I really didn’t even know what intrusive thoughts were until now.
Alicia
I’m sorry to hear but glad you made the connection (good for your husband!) When a low dose of tryptophan leads to some improvements I have clients continue to use it and often increase the dose. With severe reactions like this it may take longer to get serotonin levels back up. I’d also look into a possible glutamate, histamine and/or oxalate reaction from the collagen too – and address each aspect if relevant.
I noticed my anxiety coming back with collagen too! I had been taking grass fed collagen for a week or so and didn’t know what was going on, my anxiety had been so good for several years. I don’t know if I ever would’ve figured it out, if you hadn’t posted an article about the possible link, Trudy…Thank you!! I added Tryptophan 500mg, and within a couple days I could tell things were improving. I have noticed that I don’t need to take the Tryptophan every day though. I’ve found I can take it every other day and it works well for me. I never did stopped taking the B6, Zinc and l-lysine that helps my anxiety.
It still amazes me how much nutrients effect our overall health!
Laura
So glad to hear this and yes some folks don’t need tryptophan every day
Great that B6, zinc and lysine still helps you – yay!
I have osteoporosis and recently started taking a collagen peptide product (Fortibone). At the same time I started taking a bone support formula containing calcium, magnesium, Vit. D, K2, boron, etc.
Within a week I began experiencing such PROFOUND insomnia I felt like I was wide awake and could not drift off till 4 am each morning. Also, when I laid down at night, I was much more anxious than I normally am and had tons of worrying thoughts flitting thru my mind.
Within a couple weeks of the insomnia starting, I thankfully caught Trudy’s talk about collagen and folks who are susceptible to it on the 2023 Osteoporosis Summit. The puzzle pieces clicked together; I’m a MAO-A. I immediately stopped the collagen and the bone support supplement.
I understand supp’ing with Tryotophan may be the fix for being able to reintroduce the collagen. I bought the Lidtke brand which is a 500 mg. capsule. How do I dose this? I realize Trudy said to trial dose it but:
1) what time of day is best to take it?
2) is it taken on an empty stomach or can it be taken with food?
3) should I start taking the tryptophan BEFORE restarting the collagen and be watching for the night time anxiety/insomnia symptoms to reappear?
4) if the insomnia, anxiety do reappear, how much do I titrate up and is there a max dose of tryptophan? If I’m taking more than one capsule a day, should they taken at one time or divided throughout the day?
Thx!
Nancy
Thanks for sharing – so glad you heard my interview about this.
Tryptophan is always taken midafternoon and evening on an empty stomach/away from protein and increasing until there is symptom resolution. I can’t offer you specific advice via the blog but I have clients start on tryptophan before restarting collagen if they still have low serotonin symptoms, and adjust if needed once collagen is reintroduced. I’ve had clients use up to 1500mg tryptophan 2 x day.
When you are new to the amino acids, my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” is an excellent resource. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
Please keep us posted on progress
Nancy
I shared your story as a blog so others get the benefits of this information – thanks again for sharing.
There is also additional information over and above what I posted above. Keep us posted and please also share which actual Fortibone product you used.
Here is the new blog – I have osteoporosis – within a week of starting collagen I experienced profound insomnia, was much more anxious and had tons of worrying thoughts https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/i-have-osteoporosis-within-a-week-of-starting-collagen-i-experienced-profound-insomnia-was-much-more-anxious-and-had-tons-of-worrying-thoughts/
This article raises an important point about the potential impact of collagen and gelatin on serotonin levels and mood. While collagen and gelatin have numerous health benefits, it is crucial to consider their role in tryptophan depletion studies, which aim to lower serotonin levels. The author shares personal experiences of feeling flat and anxious after using collagen, suggesting a connection to serotonin depletion. However, not everyone may be affected in the same way, and some individuals reported no mood issues when combining collagen with tryptophan. Further research is needed to understand the individual variability in response to collagen and its potential implications for anxiety and depression.
Can you share if you educate your collagen customers about all this? And have you had feedback from customers about some of these issues.
Hi there,
I was happy to find this post as I had a terrible sensation similar to a heart attack, which might have been an anxiety attack this morning after taking two scoops of collagen with a smoothie and yes, I had a spoon of beef gelatin in my morning coffee two hour prior the smoothie. I almost went to emergency because my heart started to speed up, I felt shortness of breath and dizzy. Yes, it all happened 30 minutes after I drank the smoothie. I had the collagen but was rarely taking it and usually used one spoon without the beef gelatin. It was absolutely an eye-opener finding your post. I don’t know much about my serotin levels and others; but I sometimes have developed similar symptoms in prior occassions, usually related to something I eat (e.g., cold cuts, beer, high spicy food). Thank you for sharing this post, I greatly appreciate it.
Paula
Hopefully you were given a good cardio workup in the ER. With a reaction like this I’d investigate a possible histamine reaction.
This is a wonderful source of information as, I too, am wondering about feeling depressed since taking collagen. Also wondering whether Glycine is also troublesome. Thank you, Trudy.
Emily
Glad to hear it’s helpful. And yes glycine can be an issue for some folks – how does it affect you?
Not sure, but thanks to your article I will be on the lookout. I usually take collagen, sometimes both. thanks very much, Trudy.
Hi Trudy,
Thank you for your response on March 8th. I appreciate knowing that Collagen is not a complete protein. I am looking at other ways to increase my protein intake.
To answer your question…..I have been helped by GABA in a myriad of ways. Some years ago, I was advised to take a pharmaceutical for anxiety. I tried it for awhile. It helped, but caused a lot of stomache upset. I tried the Brand name and generic…same results. Then I read your book. I felt I was definitely more a GABA person than a Tryptophan candidate. I started taking something from the GABA family three times a day….GABA, l-glutamine, l-glcycine, l-taurine, l-theanine. My anxiety abated and I had no physical side effects. These supplements were also good at eradicating the jumbly feeling I had in my body when I was anxious or afraid.
I was sexually abused as a young kid; so fear has been a life long companion. I accept fear now as a worthy opponent/companion. I accept that it shows up now and again, but I can ask it to take a back seat when I feel able to speak and act from another part of myself.
Currently I have been using primarily GABA Calm as needed. . I have it in my car, my home, my purse. It often can change things up in 5 minutes.
In the last while however, I have had more problems with fear. This is partly the result of the world outside….Gaza, the Ukraine, Trump running again in the U.S.,where I live. My fear also arises because my husband has some physical issues that have meant that I have needed to take on an increasing number of tasks in our household. I find I feel scattered and often overwhelmed. I am thinking that perhaps it is time to go back to more regular GABA to help me stablilize. I have also started to meditate more regularly. That makes a difference.
Dorothy
This is all wonderful to hear and once we’ve seen the benefits it’s easy to go back on these amino acids in times of added stress.
Collagen supplements are hydrolyzed. Hydrolyzed proteins like this contain high amounts of free glutamates, which, like MSG, over-excite your nervous system, and cause a host of physical and psychological problems.
Lynn
Yes this is one possible mechanism and can affect some folks more than others.