If you have histamine issues or MCAS (mast cell activation syndrome) and the low GABA type of physical anxiety (with muscle tension, insomnia and stress eating), you may well want to consider which type of GABA product you use. It may be wise to avoid or use caution with the type of GABA that is produced via fermentation and could actually make your symptoms worse and cause a histamine reaction.
PharmaGABA and GABA (gamma-aminobutyric acid) are the two forms of commercially available GABA products. PharmaGABA is produced via industrial fermentation of the amino acid glutamic acid (glutamate) using Lactobacillus hilgardii. This is the same beneficial bacteria that is used to ferment foods like kimchi, the well-known Korean vegetable fermented product.
However, GABA is not fermented and is a manufactured product. It’s the form I typically have clients start with simply because it’s been around longer than pharmaGABA and I’ve had such excellent results with it.
I’ve also had reliable feedback from folks who have used both, that GABA works best for them. That said, some folks do find that pharmaGABA works better for their needs and I recognize that there is no one-size-fits-all.
How probable is it that someone could have a histamine reaction to pharmaGABA?
It was only recently that I became aware of the possibility that someone could have a histamine reaction to pharmaGABA. Someone asked the question in my GABA Quickstart online group program and I posed the question to folks on Facebook. Today I’m sharing some of that feedback and asking you to please contribute to the discussion so we can all learn.
Based on what I’ve learned so far I believe it’s very feasible and also probable for many individuals who have histamine issues to have a bad response to pharmaGABA. Keep in mind, histamine triggers are not the same across the board, and it’s possible that some individuals may not react initially and may only react as more and more is used. Or they may not not react at all.
Today’s blog is to shine light on the matter because it’s not something I’ve heard about or seen documented in the research or company product specifications or warnings.
PharmaGABA wasn’t tolerated by Calina’s daughter: she had increased ADHD, agitation, rages, tics and was argumentative and very emotional
Calina shared this about her daughter’s reaction to pharmaGABA and asked about a GABA product that isn’t fermented:
My daughter has high histamine and did not tolerate the pharmaGABA at all. She has increased ADHD, agitation, rages, constantly starts arguments, tics and is very emotional. She has the same reactions with fermented foods (like sauerkraut).
Calina shared that she is 20 and was diagnosed with MCAS at 2 years old:
It improved some for many years, but she’s always been very short attention span, anxiety, OCD, ODD, and learning differences.
Her daughter has a number of more recent factors that are likely compounding things for her:
In 2017 after a mold exposure, dog bite, mosquito bites that left bullseye rashes, all of those symptoms intensified to the extreme.
She used to eat sauerkraut daily but became intolerant. She’s always had problems with all fermented foods and supplements.
I suspect her daughter does have a histamine reaction to pharmaGABA. The clue for me is that her reactions to pharmaGABA are the same as when she consumes fermented foods.
And the symptoms are more severe and more varied than what we see when too much GABA or too much pharmaGABA is used. With too much of either we see increased anxiety and/or more sleepiness and/or feeling flushed. Flushing is common with histamine issues/MCAS and it can be challenging to figure out cause and effect, but this mom and daughter have been dealing with this for a long time and are more likely able to identify what is causing what.
If her daughter has low GABA anxiety physical type symptoms (with insomnia, spinning/focus issues, intrusive thoughts, panic attacks, stiff and tense muscles) I would recommend a GABA-only product, with manufactured GABA instead of fermented pharmaGABA.
PharmaGABA didn’t work for Bren and caused a migraine the next day
A common sign of histamine intolerance/MCAS is migraines so it’s possible that pharmaGABA could trigger a migraine in someone with histamine issues.
Bren shared this on my Facebook post:
Ah now I think I understand why Jarrow’s GABA Soothe not only didn’t work nearly as well for me as GABA Calm, but I also had a migraine the next day. Thanks so much for that information.
When I asked if she has histamine issues and if a migraine is a typical histamine reaction for her she shared that is really only just learning about histamine issues:
Until recently I would have said no and have only had the vaguest idea of what that might mean. But I have been struggling to get off Seroquel, which is the reason I started taking GABA, and I recently found out that Seroquel is a potent anti-histamine. So when you posted about people having histamine issues with the pharmaGABA, which seemed to have caused my migraine, I put 2 and 2 together. I may have it all wrong, but if so it is quite a coincidence.
In Bren’s case it’s a bit more challenging to tease out since this is new to her, she doesn’t eat sauerkraut because she doesn’t like them, but she feels there may be other foods that are affecting her.
This Jarrow GABA Soothe product also contains theanine and Ashwagandha extract so it’s hard to know if it was the pharmaGABA itself. In this instance confirming her reaction with a pharmaGABA only product would be better.
Quetiapine, sold under the brand name Seroquel, is an atypical antipsychotic medication and Bren started to make the connections when she saw my question and because she had read about Seroquel being a histamine-blocking medication.
I share her example because you may not know if you have histamine issues but you may have had a less than pleasant reaction. This will hopefully give you some things to think about.
Product labeling of pharmaGABA can be confusing
You may have noticed this product, Jarrow GABA Soothe, has GABA on the front of the bottle and strangely has “Gamma-amino butyric acid (GABA) (PharmaGABA)” on the product label.
This label makes no sense at all and is contributing to consumer and practitioner confusion.
Unfortunately this kind of labeling is not unusual and variations of this is common with many products.
GABA is used interchangeably with pharmaGABA all the time. In fact, I do it here on the blog and did it in my book. Maybe we are going to find we need to be specific.
Is the flush reaction from too much GABA or because of a histamine reaction?
The biggest issue I see with GABA and pharmaGABA is using too high a dose to start. This causes a temporary and uncomfortable tingling niacin-like flush sensation (in the brain and body).
One challenging aspect is figuring out if the flush reaction is from too much pharmaGABA, or if it’s due to a histamine reaction.
I’d suggest lowering the pharmaGABA dose and looking at all the adverse symptoms. For example, the symptoms of increased ADHD, agitation, rages, tics, being more argumentative and very emotional experienced by Calina’s daughter would not be attributed to too much pharmaGABA but to a histamine reaction (especially when correlated with her similar reactions to high histamine foods.)
If you’re new to histamine issues and MCAS
If you’re new to histamine issues and MCAS (mast cell activation syndrome), Dr. Jill Carnahan has an excellent overview here – Mast Cell Activation Syndrome: Here’s What You Need to Know When Histamine Goes Haywire.
Mast cell activation syndrome is an immune disorder. It’s just one type of mast cell activation disease.
What sets MCAS apart from other mast cell activation diseases is that it isn’t caused by an abnormally large amount of mast cells, and it isn’t a result of pathogen infection. Instead, when you have MCAS, you have a normal amount of mast cells, but they’re overactive and malfunctioning.
When your body is exposed to what it thinks is a threat, these overactive mast cells start to go haywire and secrete massive amounts of chemical mediators stored in the cytoplasm of your cells—degranulation. What’s meant to be a positive, protective response from your mast cells instead triggers both local and systemic negative effects.
When chemical messengers are released into your body, they set off an alarm that triggers an immune system response. And when this response becomes chronic—the chemical messengers are set off too much, too often—the result is mast cell activation syndrome.
In this instance, because pharmaGABA is fermented (and is likely high in histamine for this reason), it’s perceived to be a threat and causes adverse symptoms.
Over the next few months I’ll be sharing additional information about histamine issues and MCAS because of the symptoms of anxiety, insomnia, brain fog, depression and racing heart. Stress is a big trigger and teasing out the role and interplay of neurotransmitter support with GABA and tryptophan is of value.
Resources if you are new to using GABA or pharmaGABA as supplement
If you are new to using the amino acids as supplements, here is the Amino Acids Mood Questionnaire from The Antianxiety Food Solution (you can see all the low GABA symptoms).
If you suspect low levels of any of the neurotransmitters and do not yet have my book, The Antianxiety Food Solution – How the Foods You Eat Can Help You Calm Your Anxious Mind, Improve Your Mood, and End Cravings, I highly recommend getting it and reading it before jumping in and using amino acids on your own so you are knowledgeable. And be sure to share it with the team you or your loved one is working with.
I actually write about pharmaGABA briefly because it was new at the time and I had some clients who were seeing success with GABA, also trial pharmaGABA. The results were not as good as when they used GABA, so I continued to use GABA.
The book doesn’t include product names (per the publisher’s request) so this blog, The Antianxiety Food Solution Amino Acid and Pyroluria Supplements, lists the amino acids that I use with my individual clients and those in my group programs.
If you don’t feel comfortable reading my book and figuring things out on your own (doing the symptoms questionnaire and doing respective trials), you can get guidance from me in the GABA Quickstart Program (online/virtual).
If you are a practitioner, join us in The Balancing Neurotransmitters: the Fundamentals program. It’s an opportunity to interact with me and other practitioners who are also using the amino acids.
If you have histamine issues or have been diagnosed with MCAS:
- Have you found you can’t tolerate pharmaGABA and do better with GABA for easing physical anxiety, insomnia and/or stress eating?
- Are your histamine reactions to pharmaGABA similar to when you eat fermented foods and other high histamine foods?
- Please share which pharmaGABA product you used and how much you used
- Please share the reactions and the foods that trigger similar reactions so we can build an informal database with the feedback
If you have experienced reactions to pharmaGABA but do well with GABA, do you now have plans to look into the possibility of histamine issues/MCAS? Please share which pharmaGABA product you used and how much you used.
If you’re a practitioner, have you observed these effects with your patients and/or clients and is it something you caution them about?
Feel free to ask your questions here too.
My son with autism and I have SNPs for high glutamates but neither of us tolerate GABA of any kind. I was told 10% have this type of reciprocal reaction. So frustrating. Other ways to balance glutamate and GABA that you know of?
Bee
Can you please share additional information on your actual SNPs and what happens when you both use GABA? Also share what low GABA symptoms you have, and which GABA products and doses you have trialed? I’m also curious to hear where you heard that 10% have these issues.
And do either of you have MCAS or histamine issues?
I have massive histamine issues and was diagnosed with mast cell activation. I bought PharmaGABA because of the physical anxiety symptoms – heart racing, fear, muscle spasms, dizzinesss etc and it hasn’t helped at all. Where do I find this other GABA? Or should I try 5-HTP?
Judy
And are these symptoms – heart racing, fear, muscle spasms, dizzinesss – histamine/MCAS symptoms or the symptoms after using pharmaGABA? You have etc what other symptoms are there? You say pharmaGABA hasn’t helped at all but has it made your MCAS/anxiety symptoms worse or caused additional symptoms?
Please share which pharmaGABA product you used and how much you used.
I have a list of GABA and pharmaGABA products on the supplements blog https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-pyroluria-supplements/ (now that I re-read it I plan to update it and list the GABA products together and the pharmaGABA products together)
I use 5-HTP or tryptophan if there are low serotonin symptoms – more here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-mood-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/
The Pharma GABA is made by Natural Factors, Canada but from Japan. They are 100mg chewable tablets. Sometimes I take one, sometimes 2. It doesn’t help but doesn’t make things worse either.
I’m apprehensive about 5-HTP as every SSRI or SNRI my doctor has tried has given me severe leg pain. I also have Hashimotos and cannot convert T4 to T3 as the receptors are all blocked with rT3. I also have adrenal dysfunction. I’m exhausted all the time and can barely get out of bed. I’ve just started bovine adrenal. I also have very poor mitochondrial function for which I take Ubiquinol. I poisoned myself with pesticide 12 years ago in an attempt to get rid of moths and that’s when all this started. I have peripheral neuropathy and when I take B vit complex it makes it worse. I really don’t know where to turn next. Every year I get weaker and the depression/anxiety increases.
Judy
Good to hear it doesn’t make things worse. The approach I use is to start low and increase GABA until we get results. 100mg to 200mg is considered low.
I’m sorry to hear about the pesticide poisoning. I would suggest focusing on gentle detox with sauna, red light therapy, rebounding and dry skin brushing to start. All of this may improve mood too.
Full spectrum light is an option instead of 5-HTP or tryptophan too – Winter blues or SAD: light therapy https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/winter-blues-sad-light-therapy/
I, too, was given Quetiapine for sleep maintenance & early waking, anxiety/panic, major (thus far) intractable depression. Although I’ve read your book & tried combinations of aminos, nothing works for me reliably. Although the antihistamine/ anxiolytic Hydroxyzine can calm me, slowly raising to only half the lowest clinical dose of Quetiapine (75 mg) had the worst paradoxical reaction. If I tolerate Hydroxyzine, Quetiapine is unlikely to have somehow manifested histamine. Don’t know how to diagnose MCAS, but I do eat kimchi & other ferments.
CJ
You can see MCAS symptoms on Dr. Carnahan’s blog – Mast Cell Activation Syndrome: Here’s What You Need to Know When Histamine Goes Haywire https://www.jillcarnahan.com/2016/10/31/mast-cell-activation-syndrome-mcas-when-histamine-goes-haywire/
And you’d need to work with a functional medicine practitioner to do some testing and get a diagnosis. She writes about how it’s diagnosed too. If an antihistamine such as Hydroxyzine can calm someone I’d want them to investigate histamine issues/MCAS further. And I have always have clients discuss drug interactions with their prescribing physician.
You mention you’ve tried combinations of aminos with unreliable success. This may be due to MCAS and/or medications (and residual effects of tapering) being confounding factors. I’d also want to be sure you have the ideal dose or amino acid product for your unique needs.
If you feel like you need guidance and support, consider joining the online GABA Quickstart program so you can get help figuring it out https://www.anxietynutritioninstitute.com/gabaquickstart/
And don’t forget diet. In addition to in depth information on using the amino acids, I cover other anxiety nutrition solutions like real whole food, quality animal protein, fermented foods, organic produce, health fats, gluten/sugar/caffeine removal, blood sugar control, gut health, pyroluria etc) in my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution.” More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
It’s a comprehensive approach – amino acids AND diet. What is your diet like right now – gluten-free, sugar-free, caffeine-free, eating protein at breakfast for blood sugar control, real whole foods, grass-fed red meat, wild fish, fermented foods etc?
I don’t cover high histamine/MCAS or dietary oxalates in my book but they need to be considered too.
How do you know if your GABA is just GABA or PharmaGABA? Is the pharmaGABA always marked as such? And is there anything that helps with binge eating?
JW
You need to read product label on the back of the bottle. However, as I mention some labeling, can be confusing.
I have a list of GABA and pharmaGABA products on the supplements blog https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-pyroluria-supplements/ (now that I re-read it I plan to update it and list the GABA products together and the pharmaGABA products together)
All the amino acids can help stop binge eating. It’s a matter of finding what the neurotransmitter imbalance is and addressing it (or them – there can be more than one): low GABA stress eating, low endorphin comfort eating, low serotonin eating for happiness, low dopamine eating for focus and low blood sugar intense sugar cravings. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/sugar-cravings/
Sugar and cravings are covered extensively in my book The Antianxiety Food Solution. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/
If you feel like you need guidance and support, consider joining the online GABA Quickstart program so you can get help figuring it out https://www.anxietynutritioninstitute.com/gabaquickstart/
The word “spinning” was used in describing a reaction to the fermented type of GABA. What exactly does that refer to? I am trying to pin down the causes of a sort of dizziness feeling that happens only when changing from a vertical position to a horizontal…lying down or getting up. My dose of the fermented or pharma GABA was augmented about 6 months ago and this new problem, for me, started about one month ago.
Andy
Spinning is one of the signs of low GABA i.e. inability to focus. You can see all the low GABA symptoms here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-mood-questionnaire-from-the-antianxiety-food-solution/
It’s not mentioned as a reaction to pharmaGABA (fermented GABA).
What you may be referring to is orthostatic hypotension which typically has nothing to do with GABA or pharmaGABA. More here https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/orthostatic-hypotension/symptoms-causes/syc-20352548 We often see this occur when adrenal support is needed.
It can also happen with MCAS – Hyperadrenergic Postural Tachycardia Syndrome in Mast Cell Activation Disorders https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/01.hyp.0000158259.68614.40
However if we suspect new symptoms are caused by one of the amino acids or any other supplement we stop them and observe and add them back and observe
Can you share which pharmaGABA product you are using, how much (before and new increased dose) and how it’s helping?
And do you have histamine issues or MCAS? You can see symptoms on Dr. Carnahan’s blog – Mast Cell Activation Syndrome: Here’s What You Need to Know When Histamine Goes Haywire https://www.jillcarnahan.com/2016/10/31/mast-cell-activation-syndrome-mcas-when-histamine-goes-haywire/
I’m not sure where to post this question: my daughter has severe anxiety and 5-HTP did nothing at 2/day for a month even though she scores high on the low serotonin questionnaire. GABA Calm does help a tiny bit, but not enough to function well, and hasn’t helped her sleep. After reading this article I do think she has MCAS as nothing helps her allergies/asthma. How high can we go with the GABA? I am afraid to try Tryptophan with her asthma, but if nothing helps I feel like we should get a prescription for an SSRI at this point. Thanks
AH
Sorry to hear. When I hear 2 x 5-HTP for a month did nothing when someone scores high on the low serotonin questionnaire, this is where we start – what dose 50 or 100mg 5-HTP and what was her results during the initial trial? did they continue to increase until more benefits were seen? does she also have high cortisol? And if not benefits were seen with higher doses did they do a trial of tryptophan? (I have clients do an initial trial and see how they do and increase really slowly if they do well).
I would never have someone continue for 2 months with no benefits. The amino acids work immediately – as in a few minutes – and we make a decision to continue and/or increase within a week. I’m sorry you were not informed about this from your practitioner.
I use a similar approach with GABA especially when we see some benefits even if it’s a tiny bit. I have a teen using 2000mg a day right now so it really depends on each person’s unique needs.
50mg 5-HTP once a day, then after a week increased to 2x/day. She does have high cortisol so I was leery of it, but her asthma is worse so was trying to avoid the tryptophan.
No practitioner currently as we’ve had 2 naturopaths in the past never mention amino acids, so I was going off your book.
I’ll try increasing her GABA Calm. Thanks for all you do!
How can I tell if the GABA I have is pharmaGABA? I noticed on GABA calm that the type of GABA is Gamma-aminobutyric acid. Isn’t that the same form you said is in Pharma GABA?
Debbie
It will state pharmaGABA on the label. Gamma-aminobutyric acid/GABA is different
Interesting article, my doctor had me do a hormone test and my GABA was very low. Taking PharmaGABA now but even at 100mg it makes me feel a lot worse. Going to try just GABA.
My taurine was also very low.
Mark
Keep us posted on how you do
I have never heard of GABA and taurine levels being measured as part of a hormone test. Can you share what test you had done?
It was a Comprehensive Neurotransmitter; urine test
Functional Doctor ordered the test
Mark
Thanks for clarifying. I don’t advocate for this type of testing. More here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/urinary-neurotransmitter-testing-reports-elevated-gaba-when-its-really-low-using-the-low-gaba-symptoms-and-a-trial-of-gaba-is-best/
I’m curious if Pure Encapsulations GABA (https://www.pureencapsulationspro.com/gaba.html) is actually pharma GABA, since under source the site notes, “- GABA (gamma-aminobutyric acid) is synthetic; –
Ascorbyl palmitate is derived from corn dextrose fermentation and palm oil). Would be grateful for your thoughts and appreciate your wisdom!
Hallie
It’s GABA not pharmaGABA
So sorry for ur loss trudy my thoughts r with u st this difficult time is there a brand of gabba I can purchase in Australia thanks
Suzan
Thanks so much for your kind words – it means so much to me.
Healthwise GABA powder is available in Australia. Also online ordering via iherb – save 5% with this link https://www.iherb.com/?rcode=BAN2021
Hi Trudy, Have you ever had patients successfully titrate off of Lamotrigine and replace it with Gaba supplements? If so, was it a difficult journey for them to titrate down? And we’re some unable to successfully come off of it?
Thank you!
I’ve witnessed coming off of Lamotrigine. Critical to go VERY slow. Titrate by PERCENT, not dose. Towards the end, can work with compounding pharmacy to make minuscule doses or dilute in water. Can’t emphasize enough the need to go exceedingly slow. I’ve witnessed that it’s critical to have neuro/brain supports in place before, during and after the journey. Ie: increase supportive diet, supplements, lifestyle exercise/sleep/prayer meditation… and decrease/eliminate the excitatory neuro inflammatories. You may find more info from websites of: Dr. Kelly Brogan, Mad In America….
Kim
Yes the amino acids GABA and/or tryptophan/5-HTP and often melatonin helps. Some folks do fine and other struggle wit tapering. Being nutritionally stable before starting to taper helps a great deal. More in my book “The Antianxiety Food Solution” https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/the-antianxiety-food-solution-by-trudy-scott/ – the dietary aspects and an entire chapter on amino acids and a chapter on pyroluria (addressing pyroluria is key too – to help with the stress, oxidative stress and to provide cofactors for neurotransmitter/hormonal support while tapering).
If the medication is being used for seizures I have my clients work with an expert in this area, often adopting a ketogenic diet.
I also have all my clients work closely with the prescribing doctor to monitor them and help with prescribing smaller and smaller doses.
hi
I found the link interesting the ehlers danos syndrome. further I looked at other articles linked to this or website and noticed the epigenetic link. I noticed so significant changes to my son’s muscletone/ hyperflexibility only after a febrile seizure following his dTaP vaccination. I’m wondering if the vaccine or febrile seizure could have had an impact? if it’s considered to be linked to pyrolyes could certain vitamin stores have been exhausted or impacted a cycle which affects conversion of vitamins? interested if any other parent has noticed this?
Bec
I don’t have any info on this but if someone has pyroluria any stress affects zinc and vitamin B6 levels
Do let us know what you find
I heard GABA supplements do not work since GABA can not pass blood brain barrier. Is it true?
Stella
More here on this https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/gaba-blood-brain-barrier-trial-anxiety/
Feel free to read all the GABA success stories on the blog too
Trudy, I wanted to express my support for your current loss of your mother. I lost mine when I was 25. No one can be who your mother was to you, no one knows you like your mother, no one can press your buttons like your mother ;). I will pray for her soul and you and your loved ones as you all journey to finding acceptance and peace.
Emily
Thanks so much for your kind words – it means so much to me. I am sorry your lost your mom too